Do You Really Need Antivirus Software?

Cerulean said:
Norton has a "Gaming Edition" version of their Anti-Virus suite that is faster, more efficient, and more effective.. and costs more.
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AFAICT, there's no difference between the gaming version and every other version, other than, perhaps, default configuration...and even that's questionable.
 
MrGuvernment said:
I wish people would drop the "safe browsing" crap, it is crap, you don't have to be a pirate or hit porn sites to get infected, as already said, but i am sure ignored, many legits sites get hacked up every day, add servers, heck [H] has had links in threads that cause chrome and my AV to go off. I am sure you still think only gay people get HIV too....

You can be as safe as you want but the one day www.cnn.com or something gets hit, this is when you get screwed and your ignorance helps the spread of something that could of been prevented but your arrogance wouldn't allow that cause your a safe browser!
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Yup. It wasn't that long ago that Anandtech was serving up malware. Actually it was one of there ad Syndicators, but the bottom line was that going to Anandtech -- ANANDTECH!!! -- put your system at risk. So let's all stop spreading the FUD that if you're a moral upstanding citizen, who doesn't choke his chicken to online porn, he's safe. You're not.

Just because I haven't had the flu since I was a teen doesn't mean you can avoid the flu by avoiding kids. It may help, but eventually I will get the flu again. It's just a matter of time.
 
SS_Wehrwolf said:
See thats the kicker...its part of a good defense... heres the thing that doesnt do that for me...

If i got a virus.. and i lost all of my data... its a nuissance... i could care less... i dont save financial information or anything else on here that wouldnt take me a week of downloading to get back...if my email accounts are compromised... theres nothing there but bullshit...some of us actually still use paper and pen...i know its hard to believe... but if you want to maintain information... electronically with AV protection and a firewall etc. etc. isnt the answer.. you need to diversify...paper and pen are nice.. paper and pen with copies is better... paper and pen with copies in a simple code... maybe phone numbers backwards... different area codes...starting with the 4th number in your bank account... whatever... AV is not useful since its not 100% reliable...and most virus' if you were to become infected... are usually going to be because you were just plain stupid to begin with...

Do you really trust your friends and family electronically to always be sending you things that arent infected? Do you trust they are even the ones sending it to you.. do you check the properties of every single email message to see if it even originated from their domain server? No.. you dont... thats where 90% of virus' come from... friends and family who have infected computers and/or who send you infected material...that you open up because you just do not understand the fundamentals...

Here is a list of the fundamentals on the internet...

TRUST FUCKING NOTHING...

Once you understand that reality...you will realize you only have yourself to blame for getting a virus after opening an attachment or following a stupid fucking youtube like link a buddy sent you....
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This x1000.

The first question to ask everyone would be: where and how does your infection get in? And then, could it have been prevented with the use of Firefox + addons, intelligence, and proper network security? (Without AV software factored into the questions.)

MrGuvernment said:
I wish people would drop the "safe browsing" crap, it is crap, you don't have to be a pirate or hit porn sites to get infected, as already said, but i am sure ignored, many legits sites get hacked up every day, add servers, heck [H] has had links in threads that cause chrome and my AV to go off. I am sure you still think only gay people get HIV too....
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It isn't crap. The only possible means of exploitation through surfing are the following:
  • Java
  • Flash
  • JavaScript
  • Silverlight
  • Shockwave
  • Anything client-side other than HTML/CSS

XHTML/CSS alone are not programming languages, and by themselves cannot infect or do any damage to anything. You would have to couple that with a client-side programming language or applet of some sort like JavaScript or Flash.

Fortunately there are some things you can do about it: Mozilla Firefox + Adblock Plus* + Adblock Plus Element Hiding Helper + NoScript + Flashblock + QuickJava + HTTPS Everywhere + BlackSheep + Force-TLS

*Covers potential gateways, although it is important to include the following quote from Kyle in a private message conversation I had with him:
EVERY instance of Avast pointing out an in issue with HardOCP has been a false positive. Avast is POS when it comes to solid detection.
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If you block all those languages and only selectively allow the scripts and things you know are safe (or in technical scientific terms "the highest probability of NOT being infected/dangerous"), then you can browse literally any website on the internet without infection. Why? Because static webpages alone can't do damage.

Is this difficult to understand?



Now couple that with OpenDNS and you have yourself DNS-based protection for an additional range of things that your normal protection software simply won't provide (or at least as competitively as OpenDNS).
  • Block all websites that fall under the category of being malicious/malware
  • Block all pornographic/adult websites (extra safeguard)
  • Will protect from botnets
  • Will protect from DNS exploits



Then make sure you have a router between your network and your internet modem. Even a basic consumer-grade router will be effective enough to stop a lot of lack-of-firewall related issues. Extra plus if you have it configured to have all ports+protocols blocked by default and only trusted/utilized ports+protocols permitted (ie. 80, 21, 993, 587).



And lastly, if you are an intelligent Internet-user, you won't be abusing this privilege and going to every possible website and clicking every e-mail and clicking every e-mail attachment and purposefully seeking ways to get infected (because when there is a will, there is a way). It is important to note here that even on the most secure Linux distribution, it won't save a stupid operator from screwing themselves.

You can find a shorter version of the above here.



---------------------------------------------



On my own personal laptop, I do not use antivirus of any kind (and have not for about 5-7 years now, with success). I do a checkup every 3 or 6 months (but no more than 6 months) with this set of instructions; I do not keep programs like MalwareBytes, HouseCall, or NOD32's Online Scanner installed on my machine after finishing my checkup. CCleaner, Spybot, and SpywareBlaster I do keep. If you're extra paranoid, you can uninstall them all after a checkup. I always install them to C:\Program Files\Antiware\*.

On my personal server, which runs Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 Standard (dual-boot), Windows 7 has Microsoft Security Essentials and ClamAV (cloud-based), and Server 2008 has Windows Defender. Since the function of this machine is so secluded and limited (and the way it is setup/configured), it has no possible way of getting infected unless I personally, manually execute a file that is malicious. In this setup, you can think of my server acting as a sort of "quarantined/idle gateway" where inactive files are subject to antivirus software. That way whenever I access my storage drive over the network, I can be sure that everything on my server is legit and clean.

My server, FYI, has autorun of all kinds hard-disabled so that I can even pop in an infected drive from another computer without fear of any kind of infection. I think I even have it set by default that Windows 7 will not automatically mount new drives (requires manual mounting). This way I can have a virtual machine in VMware specifically setup for disinfecting drives, and have the strictest file security.



(Meh, I feel like I am forgetting something after reviewing this post before posting.)
 
I am amazed the number of folks that are using technology of 2010 but their brains are still stuck in 1999.
 
Disposed said:
Once again the dipshit system resources argument. If you are a gamer and think an AV is too much for your system you fail. Trust me guy its not the 10 megs the AV is taking thats getting you killed...
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its not the system resources.

not that i dont mind the extra boost.

but the most recent great example was oh...14 months ago playing l4d.

we were about to come out of the sewers up the ladder on no mercy, we were a bit beat up, but definitely could make it. on the ladder, one our guys norton freaks out and drops him to desktop for a good 3 minutes. everyone died.

is it a big deal? no, but its not something i want to deal with.


i am running a legit version of windows 7 64 bit. i do a decent job keeping flash, java, acrobat and windows up to date.

would running a nice av suite make me safer? probably. i don't deny that. but fact is i haven't had problems. and if i did, its not like i wouldn't drop in knoppix, move any files i want off, and nuke this thing clean.
 
nilepez said:
AFAICT, there's no difference between the gaming version and every other version, other than, perhaps, default configuration...and even that's questionable.
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lol, that's such a marketing ploy! Good for Norton, bad for us.

Honestly, Windows needs AV b/c the majority of people (consumers) are ignorant to bad websites they shouldn't be on, and are willing paying customers.

My solution (not counting Mac OS X or Linux) = Firefox + NoScript and FlashBlock. Everybody wins. :)
 
Disposed said:
Once again the dipshit system resources argument. If you are a gamer and think an AV is too much for your system you fail. Trust me guy its not the 10 megs the AV is taking thats getting you killed...
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I said ANOTHER program.. not the only program...there are always lots of programs running in the background on any system... i may have 3 anti cheating programs for clan matches... voice... and why the fuck do i need another one? You claim its a dipshit arguement.. the dipshit statement goes to yourself in even replying to my post in which you took one comment among many that merely added to my arguement... then cried foul like a parent dressing their 5 year old up as a whore in a beauty contest who are shocked they get kidnapped and murdered by someone in the audience who viewed the contest...

Move on already...
 
Disposed said:
If you think thats the only way they spread you are worse than i thought. :rolleyes:
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In my case its the only way i would get a virus unless someone broke in... and loaded one up on my computer...instead of just stealing it along with the rest of my possessions.... dont blame me if you have 800 people using your computer... or are constantly trading usb sticks or any kind of media with friends...not to mention i stated..what was it again? oh yes..here.. let me quote myself since you obviously arent able to comprehend the entire post...

"thats where 90% of virus' come from"

Obviously since im missing 10% that would not be the ONLY way to spread a virus... read and understand what i wrote.. i shouldnt have to point stuff like this out...but sadly.. it is the internet.. home of human stupidity for all to see
 
Cerulean said:
This x1000.

The first question to ask everyone would be: where and how does your infection get in? And then, could it have been prevented with the use of Firefox + addons, intelligence, and proper network security? (Without AV software factored into the questions.)
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We can explain that all day.. and look what happens... the same damn thing thats happened every single day.. some moron blames someone else or a program.. instead of themselves...for getting a virus.... why? Its easier to blame and rely upon something else.. than your own common fucking sense.. and as we both know.. common sense is like hitting the lottery anymore... you hear about it... but you dont know anyone who has it...
 
SS_Wehrwolf said:
Move on already...
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Coming from the guy that needs 3 posts, childish personal insults and stupid analogies to get his point across... :rolleyes:

Ignorance is bliss and you are the happiest motherfucker in town. :rolleyes:

Keep thinking safe browsing = clean computer im done trying to show you the ignorance of that reasoning. :rolleyes:
 
Disposed said:
Coming from the guy that needs 3 posts, childish personal insults and stupid analogies to get his point across... :rolleyes:

Ignorance is bliss and you are the happiest motherfucker in town. :rolleyes:

Keep thinking safe browsing = clean computer im done trying to show you the ignorance of that reasoning. :rolleyes:
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They are too l33t to get infected.:rolleyes:
 
Disposed said:
OCD... If a service is loaded into memory that takes 2 megs of ram its not going to hurt you or affect you in any way. The whole process obsession is just stupid and always has been.
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Antivirus are becoming progressively more resource intensive and intrusive in an attempt to subvert malware from disabling it. They're starting to use rootkit techniques themselves to hide from other malicious apps from disabling updates or just breaking the antivirus in general. It's just a shit fest that doesn't end well and bogs down your computer. Learn to use a computer and you won't need Antivirus.

As far as tiny processes being loaded into memory, that's my preference. I'm damn sure I'd find something alot faster than you would simply because I keep logs and know what to look for, not to mention since there's virtually nothing on my machine running that I don't approve of, it's easy to see almost immediately if something did pop up. If you're sitting at 62 processes for example, I'm sure you're not keeping track very well or not even caring what they do. If one day you have 63, you don't even know what the new process is.

Even a gamer would have many more normally, simply due to pointless retarded shit like Punkbuster and the like loading it's services on bootup (the "non-admin" excuse). I created a batch file if I ever want to play a Punkbuster game. Here's the code if anyone else doesn't want PB running 24/7, I use it for Battlefield 2 so change accordingly:

Code: 
@echo off
echo Starting Punkbuster services and Battlefield 2.
NET START "PnkBstrA" > nul
NET START "PnkBstrB" > nul
start /wait /d "C:\Program Files\EA GAMES\Battlefield 2" BF2.exe
NET STOP "PnkBstrA" > nul
NET STOP "PnkBstrB" > nul
sc config PnkBstrB start= demand > nul
echo Stopped Punkbuster services.
pause
exit
 
Cerulean said:
This x1000.

The first question to ask everyone would be: where and how does your infection get in? And then, could it have been prevented with the use of Firefox + addons, intelligence, and proper network security? (Without AV software factored into the questions.)

It isn't crap. The only possible means of exploitation through surfing are the following:
  • Java
  • Flash
  • JavaScript
  • Silverlight
  • Shockwave
  • Anything client-side other than HTML/CSS

XHTML/CSS alone are not programming languages, and by themselves cannot infect or do any damage to anything. You would have to couple that with a client-side programming language or applet of some sort like JavaScript or Flash.
Click to expand...

Nobody should install Java unless they need it for something specific, maybe your job requires it for example, but it's not really utilized much at all anymore. I've encountered maybe 1 or 2 sites probably in the past 5 years that required it that I could definately live without and found alternatives to anyway.

Javascript is needed.

Silverlight isn't being used all that much *yet*. Though it may in the future, it isn't generally needed right now either.

Flash is likely needed by most people. Which is pretty unfortunate because it's made by Adobe, and is also the key engine for ads these days. Whether or not HTML5 will actually replace it or if that was just a cool thing to say a while back I don't know, but regardless we'd probably be better off with something not made by Adobe. Adobe should stick to Photoshop. Leave the client-server multimedia interactions and PDF readers to other people.
 
Someone forgot to mention that some viruses can have the ability to effectively nuke your antivirus and you wouldn't even know it. The only fix for this is from-scratch reinstallation of antivirus.
 
Emission said:
Ahh, but Chrome was recently rated the *most* vulnerable browser :), and IE the least, :p. Who knew?
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Apparently no one that lived under that rock that he does.

Emission said:
The amount of misinformation in this thread is mind-boggling.
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Agreed. I remember when the [H] had far more reliable information within its user ecosytem.

SS_Wehrwolf said:
If you are not a moron... and dont have any morons who message you regularly with pictures and crap...you dont need virus protection... simple as that...

knock on wood and all.. but 19 years on the internet... 0 virus'... but about 5000 FALSE positives when using virus protection... i dont bother anymore...
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Sounds like some of the morons I talked to that have the same idea about condoms.

Azhar said:
So yes, I laugh at those who claim to be experienced or an IT person and not use AV software.
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I'm laughing with you man. Haha. I can't believe people are able to fool themselves so well these days.

daglesj said:
I am amazed the number of folks that are using technology of 2010 but their brains are still stuck in 1999.
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Azhar and I are laughing with yo as well.

QHalo said:
Not as long as I thought. Good job everyone! :D
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Haha. But you gotta admit, its the nature of the beast. I just never woulda thought I see so many people justifying not using anti virus. Sure there are some exceptions to the rule that have asinine computing methods to get around it, but I like to just use my pc.
 
PornoSatan said:
Antivirus are becoming progressively more resource intensive and intrusive in an attempt to subvert malware from disabling it. They're starting to use rootkit techniques themselves to hide from other malicious apps from disabling updates or just breaking the antivirus in general. It's just a shit fest that doesn't end well and bogs down your computer. Learn to use a computer and you won't need Antivirus.
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Except, of course Norton, which by every quantifiable measure uses less resources than it did 5 years ago.

And, AV software, in particular Norton, was using Rootkit methods 4 or 5 years ago....as I recall, they quit doing that a few years ago.....bottom line is if it's still in use, it's not exactly a new trend.
 
PornoSatan said:
As far as tiny processes being loaded into memory, that's my preference. I'm damn sure I'd find something alot faster than you would simply because I keep logs and know what to look for, not to mention since there's virtually nothing on my machine running that I don't approve of, it's easy to see almost immediately if something did pop up. If you're sitting at 62 processes for example, I'm sure you're not keeping track very well or not even caring what they do. If one day you have 63, you don't even know what the new process is.
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You're right i could give 2 shits how many processes i have working. My computer is a machine and my tool you are your machines tool and a slave to it.

I prefer to play my games and surf the web you obviously prefer to spend your time reading logs and playing detective with your processes.

That shits for obsessive nerds. You want to use your machine like that thats fine. I will install an AV and actually USE my machine. Crazy notion im sure.
 
I don't use AV on my personal systems. I've been curious and run online scanners after months and sometimes years of use and never had more than a few tracking cookies.
 
Disposed said:
Coming from the guy that needs 3 posts, childish personal insults and stupid analogies to get his point across... :rolleyes:

Ignorance is bliss and you are the happiest motherfucker in town. :rolleyes:

Keep thinking safe browsing = clean computer im done trying to show you the ignorance of that reasoning. :rolleyes:
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Do you happen to work for Dick Cheney? Misquotes.. Lies...Bullshit... is all you seem to be spewing.. and you are actually calling me childish for insulting your complete and utter lack of intelligence? Please... You dont even know what someone else wrote... even when you can easily scroll back up and look at it... ROFL... Please keep them coming man... so far you are 2 for 2 in the dumbass department...and im just sitting here with a huge fucken grin on my face shaking my head...

You have done one thing for me though... im PRO CHOICE now... 100%....rofl
 
XamediX said:
Sounds like some of the morons I talked to that have the same idea about condoms.
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Bad analogy... not using a condom for intercourse...gay straight doesnt matter... is a duel decision...

Now if you're refering to Beastiality or Rape...obviously only one person is party to that decision...lol
 
SS_Wehrwolf said:
Bad analogy... not using a condom for intercourse...gay straight doesnt matter... is a duel decision...

Now if you're refering to Beastiality or Rape...obviously only one person is party to that decision...lol
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I actually didn't understand what you meant in your reply about dual decisions. I was just making a point about you not needing protection against a very possible virus infection because you are "not a moron", have been doing it without protection for "19 years" so far, and naive notion that you only get viruses from emails or people sending you stuff. That was what I was poking fun at. =)

I think every analogy to STD's fits here in the context of AV protection.
 
SS_Wehrwolf said:
Do you happen to work for Dick Cheney? Misquotes.. Lies...Bullshit... is all you seem to be spewing.. and you are actually calling me childish for insulting your complete and utter lack of intelligence? Please... You dont even know what someone else wrote... even when you can easily scroll back up and look at it... ROFL... Please keep them coming man... so far you are 2 for 2 in the dumbass department...and im just sitting here with a huge fucken grin on my face shaking my head...

You have done one thing for me though... im PRO CHOICE now... 100%....rofl
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Really? What lies and misquotes?

For someone that thinks he is so damned smart you sure do have a difficult time making any fucking sense.
 
have been doing it without protection for "19 years" so far, and naive notion that you only get viruses from emails or people sending you stuff. That was what I was poking fun at. =)

I think every analogy to STD's fits here in the context of AV protection.
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I don't do it in the first place, so I don't need protection. ;) Not until I get married (for life)! Then.. oh boy..

never actually thought about that.

Yeah.. when that happens I will either have to hide away my laptop or make sure it's running AV just in case. :D
 
nilepez said:
Yup. It wasn't that long ago that Anandtech was serving up malware. Actually it was one of there ad Syndicators, but the bottom line was that going to Anandtech -- ANANDTECH!!! -- put your system at risk.
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Never heard that. Did they address that situation? I wonder if it was false positives, it wouldn't help matters if they said otherwise.

People have mentioned Firefox with NoScript, great extension, but eventually you'll have to allow a script to run for a site to function properly. Either way, there are other ways to get infected without javascript...SQL injections for one.
 
number69 said:
Never heard that. Did they address that situation? I wonder if it was false positives, it wouldn't help matters if they said otherwise.

People have mentioned Firefox with NoScript, great extension, but eventually you'll have to allow a script to run for a site to function properly. Either way, there are other ways to get infected without javascript...SQL injections for one.
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It's the add servers that usually tend to get hacked. More bang for the buck since compromising one add server can get your malware or virus on a great many sites at once. I believe that was the case with Anand. .
 
GORANKAR said:
It's the add servers that usually tend to get hacked. More bang for the buck since compromising one add server can get your malware or virus on a great many sites at once. I believe that was the case with Anand. .
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Yeah I got the ad servers were hacked, just wondering if they addressed it on their forums and what they said.

Either way i'll trust my AV over what a webmaster says happened.
 
Kiznilian said:
I've never had an anti virus but maybe once a year i'll get hit and I need a reformat. Been going strong for a long while now. I use firefox and 'No Script' addon which disables pretty much every chance on getting a virus entering and unknown site.
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That's pretty wise of you. :cool:
 
No script is awesome and will officially block out 90%+ of all potential virus download points.
 
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