Do You Really Need Antivirus Software?

Burning_Monk said:
And as the article states, safe surfing habits aren't nearly enough.
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yeah it's a nice article but that's pretty much bullshit. I've been without one for almost 15 years now, been good enough for me. Like others have said over and over virus software rarely catches it before it infects your system, so what's the point for people like us?
 
Azhar said:
I'm laughing so hard at the sheer ignorance of many of you guys without AV software. I want to make a request to Kyle or Steve or any mods to never allow these people to have the [H] in their forum titles. They're absolutely do not deserve them.
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So in other words those of us who are problem free without AV are idiots and those of you battle viruses with AV are smart? Obviously we're doing something right and you're doing something wrong.

I prefer the ridiculously slim chance of a virus wrecking my computer rather than the certainty of an AV program doing it.
 
Kangg said:
Run without AV software and someday you'll likely be bring your PC to someboday like me to "fix" lol
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Or not... I've never run anti-virus software in the past 10+ years and never gotten a "virus".

It's called common sense, apparently most people don't have it...
 
I have not had an computer virus in a very long time, but I still use AV software.

I have not been in an accident in a long time, but I still wear my seat belt.

I have never had a venereal disease, but I still wear a condom.

Not counting a rental property I never lived at, I have never had a house burn down, but I still have smoke detectors.

Come on, using AV just makes sense. As long as you are not using a Norton product the pros far outweigh the cons. Hell, aside from performance issues which are mostly due to using a Norton product, inconvenient scheduling of scans, using ancient PC hardware, or pebkac issues, their are almost no cons.
 
XamediX said:
DocFaust, no because I'll deal with the overhead of the AV software as long as it doesnt send all my info to a 14 year old in china that blamed russia for the source of attacks.
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Sorry, my post was only meant to be humorous; hence what I quoted to give it context. I was playing on the TSA themed argument that all the security we now go though means that the terrorists have won (since we are undeniably as a country acting terrified). Hrmmm... Since I had to explain it, I guess it wasn't as funny as I thought.
 
He's right about one thing: anti-virus software has become subject to an arms race. Just like the TSA, they react to every threat, creating ever-bigger layers of protection. At first, it was just anti-virus. Then it became A/V and firewall. Then A/V, firewall, and "communication scanning" (IM, email, etc). Then A/V, firewall, communications scanning and anti-spyware. And so on.
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Those are just new marketing terms to describe very old things. Signature-based scanning (antivirus) and intrusion detection (firewall) have both been around since DOS.

The only newish technologies for PC security lately are virtualization / sandboxing, which provide great protection and are fairly easy to use nowadays. They still have to be started manually, but it won't be long before browers can go 'hey, it looks like you're trying to install some weird antivirus thingy I've never heard of, let me throw up a sandbox for you'.
 
GORANKAR said:
I have not had an computer virus in a very long time, but I still use AV software.

I have not been in an accident in a long time, but I still wear my seat belt.

I have never had a venereal disease, but I still wear a condom.

Not counting a rental property I never lived at, I have never had a house burn down, but I still have smoke detectors.

Come on, using AV just makes sense. As long as you are not using a Norton product the pros far outweigh the cons. Hell, aside from performance issues which are mostly due to using a Norton product, inconvenient scheduling of scans, using ancient PC hardware, or pebkac issues, their are almost no cons.
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Yea... well getting a virus on the computer is no where near as bad as dieing because you didn't wear a seatbelt, getting a disease, or having your house burn down (maybe with you in it). It's a damn computer, it's not the end of the world if you get a "virus".

The pro's of AV software do not outweigh the con's. I have WHS backing up my computers every night... if I do get a "virus" then I can just revert to an old backup... or reformat... or just remove it.

MagicMan84 said:
AV is a must have for anyone using pirated software.
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Or not... I have "pirated" copies of software for educational purposes (srsly). Like video editing software so I can learn how to use the tool. Then after I started making a profit off the videos I was making I bought a legit copy of it. Regardless, I haven't had any issues with that either.

If you're stupid and just google for a "cracked" version of some software I'm sure you'll download something to screw yourself over.

It's seriously just common sense.
 
Honestly, I think AV is over-rated, having the latest version of common sense installed is the best type of protection.
 
Even games now come with rootkits which I dont allow on my system. Just about every useful free utility, daemon tools, winzip, winamp, etc. comes with stupid toolbars and search features. Most large news sites and valid websites have been compromised at one time or another. The influx of chat viruses, email hoaxes, and false links. The large forum crap with blind click throughs from bots, etc.

The internet connected PC is possibly compromised at various turns in its lifetime. This whole idea that even a decent FREE AV is not necessary is just STUPID! Manage a corporate network and you will see the bigger picture. The average user is a rotting pool of misbehaviour and will infect their PC if left to their own devices and habits.

When it comes down to it, it equates to never covering your keyboard or looking over your shoulder when getting money from an ATM. Just because someone hasnt tried to steal from you, doesnt mean they arent waiting at the next opportunity to rip you off in some way. Virus/Malware creators are out there looking for people just like you and it is only a matter of time till one reaches you if you dont practice reasonable measures to secure yourself. It is a multi-layered approach.

1. Good browsing habits
2. Good user habits
3. Strong passwords
4. AV / malware scanners
5. Maintain updates and patches.
6. Right choice in software usage and security settings
7. Secure network (encryption/etc.)

There are those out there that say, who needs AV, sure you might still be fine while doing everything else, but every bit can count. Sometimes it helps to have help with things you might not be able to keep up with on your own.

Slows down my computer, every person in the NO AV camp has always cheered this mantra. And seems to be their major fall-back argument. Truth is, the modern computer paired with modern AV software hardly feels anything anymore and hasnt for some time. I always question a NO AV camp'er and wonder if they might even part of the contributors to why we even have viruses to begin with.

I mean think about it, if there weren't saps out there falling for the traps that exist, why would anyone bother this much to make the traps? Most traps come from monetary gain these days (not saying all but to quote a recent movie "Some men just like to watch the world burn".
 
Blazestorm said:
Yea... well getting a virus on the computer is no where near as bad as dieing because you didn't wear a seatbelt, getting a disease, or having your house burn down (maybe with you in it). It's a damn computer, it's not the end of the world if you get a "virus".

The pro's of AV software do not outweigh the con's. I have WHS backing up my computers every night... if I do get a "virus" then I can just revert to an old backup... or reformat... or just remove it.
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Still trying to figure out the cons that the pros are not outweighing here.
 
Why run something that sits in the background and wastes resources to save me from a threat that doesn't exist?

I see no "pros" to constantly running AV software. I rarely see it work well enough to catch viruses before they're already there. It feels like a detection system, not a prevention system. Smoke detectors are nice, but you if you have enough common sense you could live in a house for 50 years and never burn it down. And if the fire is bad enough the smoke detector does nothing more than tell you the house is burning down, it doesn't prevent it from happening.

So no, I won't bother installing software that does nothing to solve the problem.
 
I wonder how many people actually use AV after reading a page since I last posted in this thread. The last time I participated in a discussion on AV on these forums, the majority mocked and laughed away the minority that didn't use AV; now it has flip flopped and it seems like 40% are AV and 60% are no-AV.
 
DyNamiC. said:
Instead, I recommend they use Malwarebytes and simply run a full scan each week or if their PC acts strangely.
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So you are not up to date on current virus trends then?

That advice re. Malwarebytes was okish about 18 months ago but even Malwarebytes is being defeated. Many drivebys wont even allow you to run MWB to scan even in Safe mode now.

Joe User isnt going to be able to get round that.
 
Cerulean said:
I wonder how many people actually use AV after reading a page since I last posted in this thread. The last time I participated in a discussion on AV on these forums, the majority mocked and laughed away the minority that didn't use AV; now it has flip flopped and it seems like 40% are AV and 60% are no-AV.
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I more worry that people that should be using AV, stop using it because the supposed l33t, never caught a virus, spouting you must be looking at porn or be a moron if you get infected, users say they are fine without it, than who is mocking who.
AV does catch and stop some infections your typical user is likely to run across. For the handful of CPU cycles most will never miss, it seems a fair trade off for protection, even if it is only partial protection.
 
I might switch to MSE soon. I did not use any AV for about 17 years, then used BitDefender for the past 3 years, but it did not protect me from my only PC infection in 20 years 2 years ago, a nasty one, and recently it scrapped thousands of Windows 7 x64 machines with a wrong automatic update.

Still, I wouldn't want to live without AV, there are just too many vulnerabilities around. There is almost no way you can detect a rootkit programmed to contact a control command center and send a dozen of spam mails silently while you are not using the machine. If you don't run an AV for you, run it for the other Internet users.

A fun thing that happened to me a few times is when folders already scanned and assumed safe suddenly report infected files because of new signatures were updated. For instance zip files and computer archives that are still present on the backup drive (I usually burn them to BD-R and delete them after some time.)
 
DyNamiC. said:
I've worked in IT for 6 years in some form or fashion. I currently am one of two technicians at what is pretty much the largest PC repair shop in my area.

Recommending a full time antivirus program to "Joe Random" customer results in the following:

1. They buy an AV program.
2. They get hit by random fake antivirus variant #7234.
3. They come in raging about how they had the latest AV and still get infected.


Tell me again what the point is for "Joe Random" to buy the AV software in the first place.

Instead, I recommend they use Malwarebytes and simply run a full scan each week or if their PC acts strangely.
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Thats really really stupid. If you where any good at your job you would set them up with the right AV and eliminate 2 and 3.

Theres no good reason whatsoever NOT to use an AV. NONE.

The ignorance in this thread is astounding. All of you guys that refuse to run an AV are one php, flash, java etc. vulnerability away from being infected. You guys have no clue how fast these AV companies get updates out if you think theres even a good chance to get infected before its in the definitions.

Can you guys even come up with a single good reason to NOT use at least MSE? If you say system resources GTFO these forums...
 
F antivirus. I havn't found anything that does a good job. You need to take images of your pc, when you have a problem - bam! reimage. Or system restore.
 
Do You Really Need (FREE) Antivirus Software? Yeah, of course. I mean, why not?

Do You Really Need (NOT FREE) Antivirus Software? Probably not, but it depends on what you're doing, what needs to be protected and how good the paid-for solution.
 
i dont use it.

since 03 i think i have had one incident. and that was using pirated software in like...04? no surprise there.

i use a separate computer running linux for any online shopping or bill paying....
 
Restricted User and Microsoft Computer Essentials on all our computers now-a-days. Its free and I don't mind typing in an Admin password everytime something tries to do something....I mean that really all that makes Linux and OSX any safer is that you have to type in root password all the time.
 
ivesceneenough said:
i dont use it.

since 03 i think i have had one incident. and that was using pirated software in like...04? no surprise there.

i use a separate computer running linux for any online shopping or bill paying....
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So instead of installing a free lightweight AV you use a second system for your banking and shopping? Makes total sense.

$50 says your windows machine is a zombie.
 
daglesj said:
So you are not up to date on current virus trends then?

That advice re. Malwarebytes was okish about 18 months ago but even Malwarebytes is being defeated. Many drivebys wont even allow you to run MWB to scan even in Safe mode now.

Joe User isnt going to be able to get round that.
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Sadly that is the case these days.

Disposed said:
Thats really really stupid. If you where any good at your job you would set them up with the right AV and eliminate 2 and 3.

Theres no good reason whatsoever NOT to use an AV. NONE.

The ignorance in this thread is astounding. All of you guys that refuse to run an AV are one php, flash, java etc. vulnerability away from being infected. You guys have no clue how fast these AV companies get updates out if you think theres even a good chance to get infected before its in the definitions.

Can you guys even come up with a single good reason to NOT use at least MSE? If you say system resources GTFO these forums...
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Eliminate 2 and 3? In what world? Name a single active scanning AV that will stop a drive by attack? Better yet, name a single AV that I can recommend to Joe Random customer with a 4-5 year old machine that won't make it close to unusable.

You have no clue how fast new variants of these drive by viruses pop up if you think the AV companies are close to keeping up. Even with the latest/greatest AV you can find, you are still one php, flash, java etc. vulnerability away from being infected.
 
DyNamiC. said:
Eliminate 2 and 3? In what world? Name a single active scanning AV that will stop a drive by attack? Better yet, name a single AV that I can recommend to Joe Random customer with a 4-5 year old machine that won't make it close to unusable.

You have no clue how fast new variants of these drive by viruses pop up if you think the AV companies are close to keeping up. Even with the latest/greatest AV you can find, you are still one php, flash, java etc. vulnerability away from being infected.
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If you cant answer that question you are in no position to be giving out any such advice anyway.

MSE and as fast as they update these definitions the chance I will get screwed by such a vulnerability is about 100% better than yours.
 
Disposed said:
If you cant answer that question you are in no position to be giving out any such advice anyway.

MSE and as fast as they update these definitions the chance I will get screwed by such a vulnerability is about 100% better than yours.
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We actually have quite a few customers that run MSE. They still get infected, even with fully updated software.

Try running MSE on a machine thats about 4 years old. Granted MSE isn't anywhere near as slowing as many other AV packages it still murders older machines.
 
DyNamiC. said:
We actually have quite a few customers that run MSE. They still get infected, even with fully updated software.

Try running MSE on a machine thats about 4 years old. Granted MSE isn't anywhere near as slowing as many other AV packages it still murders older machines.
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You are full of shit. How about you take your own advice and run it on a 4 year old machine then report back because i have machines here older than that running it without any sort of slow downs.

You do realize by 4 year old machine you are talking the era of core 2 duo/ athlon X2 right?:rolleyes:

Even my a64 3000+ with 2gb of DDR which is nearly 7 years old now shows no signs of slowdown.

Your reasoning is made up in your head and complete bullshit.

ZOMG IT USES 10 MEGS OF RAM!!!!!! UNINSTALL IT :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Disposed said:
You are full of shit. How about you take your own advice and run it on a 4 year old machine then report back because i have machines here older than that running it without any sort of slow downs.

You do realize by 4 year old machine you are talking the era of core 2 duo/ athlon X2 right?:rolleyes:

Even my a64 3000+ with 2gb of DDR which is nearly 7 years old now shows no signs of slowdown.

Your reasoning is made up in your head and complete bullshit.

ZOMG IT USES 10 MEGS OF RAM!!!!!! UNINSTALL IT :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
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I'm talking about the people that have 512/1gb or RAM tops and won't upgrade for anything.

Also as you may or not be aware, there is a current issue where MSE will continue to soak up RAM, all the way to the point of using over 1gb. You will probably think I'm just full of shit though so feel free to google that one.
 
Also before you come off with some generic response about the machine being infected or this and that:

I have seen it with my own eyes on a freshly installed Win7 machine.
 
The people that approach this entire situation from the "I'm careful, I'm an IT person, I've been using computers for <x> years, I've done this, I've done that" and the always hilarious "I know what I'm doing" simply don't.

I know how to eat but it doesn't mean I won't choke on something someday.

I know how to swim but it doesn't mean I won't drown someday if the situation presents itself.

I know how to drive a car but it doesn't mean some moron won't slam into me at excessive speed killing me in a rather horrible manner while walking away with barely a scratch.

I've been working with computers since 1975 when I built one with my bare hands but that doesn't mean I'm now keenly aware that if I do absolutely nothing to at least TRY to protect myself from what's out there with our networked world nowadays that something is going to get through just when I least expect it and really fuck things up considerably.

Knowledge is not power. Applied knowledge is.

'Nuff said.
 
Disposed said:
So instead of installing a free lightweight AV you use a second system for your banking and shopping? Makes total sense.

$50 says your windows machine is a zombie.
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i am seriously considering taking you up on that bet.



trend micro housecall scan?
 
If you install random crap, run a pirated OS (any software for that matter) or any warez, then yes.

I do none of those. Keeping the OS and everything updated and staying on legit websites makes me less worried about viruses. I still have MS security essentials on this computer but I turn off real time protection and only really use it to scan the computer once in a while.
 
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