Diablo 3 Discussion Thread

cageymaru said:
Act 3 Phasebeasts on the way to Azmodan with the fast, teleporter, desecration, arcane, extra health, reflect affixes were worse than any boss in the game. To be exact I'd rather fight four D3 bosses at one time than fight those again.
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It's the fact that they already have the teleport mechanic and are already fast and powerful that makes the fights ridiculous with four affixes. When you give them Jailer|Molten|Frozen|Arcane it becomes Jailer|Molten|Frozen|Arcane|Teleporter|Fast - but that's part of the design team's choice to give the enemies cooler skills with fewer restrictions than the "heroes". IMO there should never be more than one CC skill on a champion pack, particularly when most escape skills have some sort of long cooldown. Getting jailed while the freeze bombs appear all around you is just stupid.

I actually have no problem at all with "shopping" on the AH for gear...the problem has just been that the gear is generic and hasn't really synergized well with any of the skills. I've been having a lot of fun with my Barb since 1.0.4 dropped and it's because I was able to take The Three Hundredth Spear and build my Throw Barb around that item. Before they redesigned a bunch of the "Legendaries" there was no discernible reason to even call them Legendary. The original 300th Spear had some MF in place of the two large skill boosts - whoopity doo!

Know what I'm doing now? I'm walking around in A3 with a Shaefer's Hammer and using reflect damage skills (profile) because that weapon - my fav from D2 - happens to have a cool ability that triggers "when hit". How they could have worked on this game for so long without learning that skills and gear are interdependent is truly mind boggling. 1.0.5 is going to address many non-gear related issues as well, so it should make the game even more fun.
 
cageymaru said:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/BoomBadaBing-1980/hero/1507103

My buddies gave me a ton of new gear this week so this isn't what I was wearing earlier this week. Still only at 26k dps. Buddies told me not to link my profile for fear of spam. Is that true?
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I haven't played much since the introduction of paragon but im sure my advice still applies:
Get rid of shield + 1h crossbow and start using a 2hand bow/xbow. It seems like you want to tank but you don't have the right spec nor do you have the correct gear to do so. You can easily build a 60k (without SS) dps build with 10 million-ish. I make do with 200ish? resist but make it up with well timed SS, movement, and stutter stepping.

Tanking DH is trash because you don't learn how to play a demon hunter on how it's meant to be played.
 
I know how to play my DH. I used the shield to get to Act 3 as I only have 26k dps with or without the shield. My buddy was tanking so I used this spec to keep up with him as decent boots with run speed are out of my budget. I have a 2hnd X-Bow in my bags.

As far as spending 10 mil at the AH I only have 126k gold as I don't have anything to sell on the AH because of a lack of drops. I ran with my buddies this week and they got as total of 13 legendary items during our runs. I of course got crap without decent stats so I vendor everything as usual. Even they thought I was lying so I streamed Skype to them when I ID'd my drops.

They immediately bought me some gear from the AH! Ha ha ha!

They started donating to my wizard this week also. My buddies were going to buy me more gear but I think it's counterproductive to have to be bought gear because I get pure crap drops. Well it's really boring honestly. My buddies now whisper each other when they get legendary drops to keep my mood positive. One of them made 70 million this week, but spent all of it on retooling his barbarian. The other doesn't mention what he makes so I can stop sighing in Skype.
 
cageymaru said:
I know how to play my DH. I used the shield to get to Act 3 as I only have 26k dps with or without the shield. My buddy was tanking so I used this spec to keep up with him as decent boots with run speed are out of my budget. I have a 2hnd X-Bow in my bags.

As far as spending 10 mil at the AH I only have 126k gold as I don't have anything to sell on the AH because of a lack of drops. I ran with my buddies this week and they got as total of 13 legendary items during our runs. I of course got crap without decent stats so I vendor everything as usual. Even they thought I was lying so I streamed Skype to them when I ID'd my drops.

They immediately bought me some gear from the AH! Ha ha ha!

They started donating to my wizard this week also. My buddies were going to buy me more gear but I think it's counterproductive to have to be bought gear because I get pure crap drops. Well it's really boring honestly. My buddies now whisper each other when they get legendary drops to keep my mood positive. One of them made 70 million this week, but spent all of it on retooling his barbarian. The other doesn't mention what he makes so I can stop sighing in Skype.
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Please just quit.
 
cageymaru said:
I know how to play my DH. I used the shield to get to Act 3 as I only have 26k dps with or without the shield. My buddy was tanking so I used this spec to keep up with him as decent boots with run speed are out of my budget. I have a 2hnd X-Bow in my bags.

As far as spending 10 mil at the AH I only have 126k gold as I don't have anything to sell on the AH because of a lack of drops. I ran with my buddies this week and they got as total of 13 legendary items during our runs. I of course got crap without decent stats so I vendor everything as usual. Even they thought I was lying so I streamed Skype to them when I ID'd my drops.

They immediately bought me some gear from the AH! Ha ha ha!

They started donating to my wizard this week also. My buddies were going to buy me more gear but I think it's counterproductive to have to be bought gear because I get pure crap drops. Well it's really boring honestly. My buddies now whisper each other when they get legendary drops to keep my mood positive. One of them made 70 million this week, but spent all of it on retooling his barbarian. The other doesn't mention what he makes so I can stop sighing in Skype.
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jealous much.. Just play more to get more loot. Honestly tool your DH for some MF and Gold Find equipment. If you are in inferno. You can start making good money as long your stats are good enough to kill while dodging while equipped with MF and GF gear. GET RID OF THAT SHIELD. You need a quiver with "attack speed", "dexterity", and "critical damage" specs. You are a DH for god sakes, they don't call us glass cannons for nothing. Kill and Smoke Screen. Rinse and repeat. Your Passives should be "sharpshooter, archery, and tactical advantage".
 
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I found my first HC item worth a damn. :cool:

oculusn.jpg


Edit: Act 2 goblin was kind to me.
 
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Rdzona said:
Lolz. Seriously though, ^^this is the correct answer.
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purple_haze said:
jealous much.. Just play more to get more loot. Honestly tool your DH for some MF and Gold Find equipment. If you are in inferno. You can start making good money as long your stats are good enough to kill while dodging while equipped with MF and GF gear. GET RID OF THAT SHIELD. You need a quiver with "attack speed", "dexterity", and "critical damage" specs. You are a DH for god sakes, they don't call us glass cannons for nothing. Kill and Smoke Screen. Rinse and repeat. Your Passives should be "sharpshooter, archery, and tactical advantage".
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big_aug said:
Please just quit.
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I was following a WW barb in Act 3 that was pulling the entire instance like KingKongor does and was complaining that I was going too slow. The shield allowed me to eat a random piece of damage once in a blue moon while he pulled the entire instance at once. If I were pulling I'd have an idea where the damage was going to be at. He was off my screen pulling more, more. more. And Purple Sharpshooter is among my normal passives when I play the DH. I don't play the DH because it keeps finding garbage loot.

I have a X-Bow in my bags for god's sakes. I have a nice quiver. If you can survive 3 or 4 elite packs at one time on your DH in Act 3 with my stats show me the video! Show me right now! You'd put a shield on too when you're following my buddy or as he says, " GTFO my instance".

:)
 
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Oh and even if that 1hnd X-Bow and shield were my main weapons of choice; they should be fine for Inferno regardless. Or are you'll telling me that Blizzard made a game that only 3 of 15 or so passives work for each class?

:)
 
Does it really take 72 hours for the money from items sold on the RMAH to go into your Battlenet account? Is the waiting period a first time deal or for every sale?
 
I love the people who have less hours than someone else and have found tons of gear talking like it's an absolute that after the same number of hours, EVERYONE will have found amazing loot too.

Personally, I don't have any luck with D3's loot generator, I have a 60 of each class, and haven't ever found anything worth more than a couple of million... I think my best overall was a fist wep worth about 5. All my legendaries have been sub 60 and worthless, i've seen 2 set pieces total, a tal rashas helm pre buff and a set fist wep pre buff. Neither was worth a million gold.

I think my total playtime was around 400 hours when i gave up praying to the loot gods :)

At some point, the feeling of "I'll get something cool soon!" just wears off, and you burn out.

RNG is RNG as they say, and some people are lucky and some aren't.

Just because you have experienced good luck with loot doesn't mean everyone has.
 
I've got a ton of time into the game now, still get lucky every once in a while. This week it was a nice pair of Inna's Temperance pants. My problem is spending money too fast - it didn't take too long at all to turn that 30mil into an SOJ, an Echoing Fury and a fun Puzzle Ring for my scoundrel. Extra treasure goblins popping out at the most hectic moments is pretty hilarious. :D
 
I broke 1000 hours a couple of days ago because the inventory system is so robust that you can never have the best gear as rolling the best gear is like a .00000000000000012 % chance. Always improving.

I have been rolling a shield lately. I can do 100k with a shield or 140k without a shield. I die 2 or 3 times per run without a shield and pretty much 0 with a shield. So my efficiency with a shield is slightly higher.

Found a ring that I'm currently using......yep even after 1000 hours I was still able to find usable gear.

also given that I'm maxing out at 140k and the top wizard is like 300k I see that I still have plenty of room to grow.

For PVP I just don't see how most people are going to hack it against the 300k's out there. I worked quite a bit of ass off to get to 140k........a 300k would mop the floor with me.....I don't want to loose my ears.
 
stevedave said:
For PVP I just don't see how most people are going to hack it against the 300k's out there. I worked quite a bit of ass off to get to 140k........a 300k would mop the floor with me.....I don't want to loose my ears.
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This is what Blizz is counting on. There is an easy way to get to 300K DPS, no time investment required ;).
 
stevedave said:
I broke 1000 hours a couple of days ago because the inventory system is so robust that you can never have the best gear as rolling the best gear is like a .00000000000000012 % chance. Always improving.

I have been rolling a shield lately. I can do 100k with a shield or 140k without a shield. I die 2 or 3 times per run without a shield and pretty much 0 with a shield. So my efficiency with a shield is slightly higher.

Found a ring that I'm currently using......yep even after 1000 hours I was still able to find usable gear.

also given that I'm maxing out at 140k and the top wizard is like 300k I see that I still have plenty of room to grow.

For PVP I just don't see how most people are going to hack it against the 300k's out there. I worked quite a bit of ass off to get to 140k........a 300k would mop the floor with me.....I don't want to loose my ears.
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I think that's why they are holding the pvp content back because if the 300k dps wizard gets matched against you is he going to do 2x the damage? Is there going to be a different ratio for pvp? Do they make the 300k wizards match up against only other similarly geared characters? Will it make a pvp queue that is so long that you get aggravated and don't want to pvp?

What happens if my 33k dps wizard decides to have some fun. How will he fair against a 140k wizard? Does that mean you'll do 4x the damage I do? Will I feel like I'm having fun if I get that match up. Will you even have fun in that match up if it occurs a lot?

Will be interesting to see how it plays out as I do believe Blizzard can balance it or do something via a resilience type debuff so that people can have some fun with it.
 
cageymaru said:
Does it really take 72 hours for the money from items sold on the RMAH to go into your Battlenet account? Is the waiting period a first time deal or for every sale?
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I believe its up to 72 hours, yeah. Every sale I made took some time to make it to my account.
 
cageymaru said:
I think that's why they are holding the pvp content back because if the 300k dps wizard gets matched against you is he going to do 2x the damage? Is there going to be a different ratio for pvp? Do they make the 300k wizards match up against only other similarly geared characters? Will it make a pvp queue that is so long that you get aggravated and don't want to pvp?

What happens if my 33k dps wizard decides to have some fun. How will he fair against a 140k wizard? Does that mean you'll do 4x the damage I do? Will I feel like I'm having fun if I get that match up. Will you even have fun in that match up if it occurs a lot?

Will be interesting to see how it plays out as I do believe Blizzard can balance it or do something via a resilience type debuff so that people can have some fun with it.
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The way i've understood it from the comments blizzard has made about their plans for PvP, is that it will soley be a rating-based queue system. So basically if you want to pvp with your 33k dps character, you'll have to go in expecting to lose a large majority of your first matches so that your rating gets pushed down. Then, you'll be fighting people with better dps who suck at playing, and people with equal dps who are good as you, and people with lower dps who are better than you. If they made a gear-match system where it compares item levels during queue, there'd be no incentive to buy gear off the RMAH, so that will never happen.
 
[L]imey;1039200670 said:
I love the people who have less hours than someone else and have found tons of gear talking like it's an absolute that after the same number of hours, EVERYONE will have found amazing loot too.

Personally, I don't have any luck with D3's loot generator, I have a 60 of each class, and haven't ever found anything worth more than a couple of million... I think my best overall was a fist wep worth about 5. All my legendaries have been sub 60 and worthless, i've seen 2 set pieces total, a tal rashas helm pre buff and a set fist wep pre buff. Neither was worth a million gold.

I think my total playtime was around 400 hours when i gave up praying to the loot gods :)

At some point, the feeling of "I'll get something cool soon!" just wears off, and you burn out.

RNG is RNG as they say, and some people are lucky and some aren't.

Just because you have experienced good luck with loot doesn't mean everyone has.
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Whenever this topic is brought up somehow MF is never discussed. Generally when I hear someone who hasn't found jack is b/c they don't have much MF and vice versa. You want better loots, get more MF, it really is a great stat to have.

stevedave said:
For PVP I just don't see how most people are going to hack it against the 300k's out there. I worked quite a bit of ass off to get to 140k........a 300k would mop the floor with me.....I don't want to loose my ears.
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Also I hate to sound like a broken record but I've commented on this topic several times and apparently no one listens. Granted this can ALWAYS change because its not out yet, but the current plan as far as Blizz has released is that PVP will use an ELO matchmaking system similar to what is used in Starcraft. (Bashiok said this awhile ago)

If your curious http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

What is the one and only thing that matters in a multi-player match? The wins and losses in a ranked structure.

Yes it takes a few games in the beginning in order to sample you as a player, in Starcraft they do this with 5 games, used to be 10 but they lowered it, whatever. (Obviously the more samples the better)

After those first placement matches, you are assigned an MMR (a rating), and then you are typically matched up with people that have similar ratings. In theory, after a large sample of games, you should approach a win-loss ratio of 50/50.

So really gears don't matter directly, its all about your win-loss ratio with similar rated people.
 
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ELO assumes even odds. If, in chess, you could pay $5 before the match to turn one of your bishops into an extra queen, ELO wouldn't mean much. Believe it or not, I could probably beat the world's top grandmaster chess player if I could pay $$$ to turn all my pawns to Queens.

Similarly, my "ranking" with Just-beat-hell gear @lvl60 isn't gonna be a reasonable representation of my skill once I go out and buy 5x my current DPS. That is to say, while the ranking WILL adjust, I will be able to buy victory pretty much forever (until I hit god-tier everything).

It will be interesting to see if Paragon levels apply to PvP.
 
Paragon levels would have to apply to PvP otherwise grinding them would be as useless as 99.999% of the loot that drops in the game. Blizzard can't possibly have two broken systems in place.
 
Sn0_Man said:
ELO assumes even odds. If, in chess, you could pay $5 before the match to turn one of your bishops into an extra queen, ELO wouldn't mean much. Believe it or not, I could probably beat the world's top grandmaster chess player if I could pay $$$ to turn all my pawns to Queens.
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That's why the ratings change. If you spend $$$ on gear, you will eventually be playing against people with similar gear. For a net benefit of zero.

No matter how good or bad your gear, the system will try to match you up with similar people.
 
Rdzona said:
Whenever this topic is brought up somehow MF is never discussed. Generally when I hear someone who hasn't found jack is b/c they don't have much MF and vice versa. You want better loots, get more MF, it really is a great stat to have.



Also I hate to sound like a broken record but I've commented on this topic several times and apparently no one listens. Granted this can ALWAYS change because its not out yet, but the current plan as far as Blizz has released is that PVP will use an ELO matchmaking system similar to what is used in Starcraft. (Bashiok said this awhile ago)

If your curious http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

What is the one and only thing that matters in a multi-player match? The wins and losses in a ranked structure.

Yes it takes a few games in the beginning in order to sample you as a player, in Starcraft they do this with 5 games, used to be 10 but they lowered it, whatever. (Obviously the more samples the better)

After those first placement matches, you are assigned an MMR (a rating), and then you are typically matched up with people that have similar ratings. In theory, after a large sample of games, you should approach a win-loss ratio of 50/50.

So really gears don't matter directly, its all about your win-loss ratio with similar rated people.
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I have 200 MF base on my other set of gear for my DH. Just 14k HP and 11k dps with it on is a slight problem. The better stuff costs moolah to get although I will admit I haven't checked in the past week as I've given up on the DH. The Wizard has 160 or more MF base with my templar in tow. I got 1 legendary this week and a few items that almost were good if they had one more stat. I tried selling them for vendor price and nobody would buy them. I think that details my D3 experience in a nut shell. :)

I agree with Sno man about the ELO system. My old WoW buddies are already talking about losing intentionally and then swapping to 200k+ dps sets and owning the low levels. They could care less about a rating. They are the types that queue and leave the arena as soon as it starts so they can free fall into the lower bracket and make youtube videos about owning people. They buy old accounts just to do that type of thing over and over.

With the ability to reuse the same gear over and over on different accounts and no subscription fee to hinder it, this will be an interesting spectacle to see.
 
Sn0_Man said:
ELO assumes even odds. If, in chess, you could pay $5 before the match to turn one of your bishops into an extra queen, ELO wouldn't mean much. Believe it or not, I could probably beat the world's top grandmaster chess player if I could pay $$$ to turn all my pawns to Queens.

Similarly, my "ranking" with Just-beat-hell gear @lvl60 isn't gonna be a reasonable representation of my skill once I go out and buy 5x my current DPS. That is to say, while the ranking WILL adjust, I will be able to buy victory pretty much forever (until I hit god-tier everything).

It will be interesting to see if Paragon levels apply to PvP.
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This is true, if you consistently keep upgrading your gear and you can outpace the speed at which the system can assign you an MMR. But lets be honest, I don't think there will be big enough jumps in that respect to keep you winning on a consistent basis. I bet you'll still lose a fair amount of games. It may not be 50/50 maybe more like 60/40 or something like that. But your rating will continue to go up and you'll be playing the players with better gear. So I would imagine that that trend will be difficult to keep up.

As your example, or course you're going to compare the most contrasted items on the chess board. The pawn and queen. :rolleyes:

I'll take my most recently good gear find. I was and have been wearing an MF belt. Nothing special, maybe the all resist but everything else is pretty mediocre, sub 100 main stats. Well I found an IK belt not to long ago, with pretty good rolls. That increased my dps by just under 4K and maybe the same for health. This is going from a very average item to possibly the best belt in the game for my class. I highly doubt that one piece of gear is what would keep me on a win streak. If I wasn't at work I could link an article on team liquid's site describing how Blizz matches up players based on MMR and how they award points to each match prior to the game being played. I really don't think you'll be able to do what you are claiming, maybe on a really small local time frame but not long enough for it to really matter.
 
Pretty much what cagey said. Start at 10K DPS, then maintain an ~80% win rate by bumping your DPS ~5K every time you lose. Should let you win hundreds of matches before you get close to truly expensive gear. Then swap accounts and re-use the gear you acquired to keep that win rate. EZ. Disclaimer: You will lose your 5 placement matches.

EDIT: Basically, blizzard better have a really high K-Value for this system to counteract what I'm describing. That introduces other problems though.

And if wizards can range from 33K DPS to 300K DPS, I don't think there is an issue upgrading pawns to queens. In chess "point" calculations (useless, but they exist) a queen is worth 9 pawns.
 
Sn0_Man said:
Pretty much what cagey said. Start at 10K DPS, then maintain an ~80% win rate by bumping your DPS ~5K every time you lose. Should let you win hundreds of matches before you get close to truly expensive gear. Then swap accounts and re-use the gear you acquired to keep that win rate. EZ. Disclaimer: You will lose your 5 placement matches.

EDIT: Basically, blizzard better have a really high K-Value for this system to counteract what I'm describing. That introduces other problems though.

And if wizards can range from 33K DPS to 300K DPS, I don't think there is an issue upgrading pawns to queens. In chess "point" calculations (useless, but they exist) a queen is worth 9 pawns.
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Yea this seems like a reallllly easy way to troll, and maybe it's what they're trying to fix. Just keep making new 60's, as it's quick to grind with exp gear, and you can just keep your epic dps gear rolling from one toon to the next.
 
I don't really know what you guys mean by rolling a new char or whatever. But your rating will be tied to your account. Honestly if someone wants to buy the game multiple times just to troll and get a few wins at the lowbie levels then they can have at it. I think they're pretty much the losers at that point.
 
Rdzona said:
I don't really know what you guys mean by rolling a new char or whatever. But your rating will be tied to your account. Honestly if someone wants to buy the game multiple times just to troll and get a few wins at the lowbie levels then they can have at it. I think they're pretty much the losers at that point.
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That'd be the easiest solution to stop the trolling, but honestly it's a crappy one. Having the rating be tied would make it retarded to try to PvP on more than one champ.

Stupid.
 
I was thinking that maybe they could do a scan of your account and match you by the highest level gear you own per slot. But what happens if you queue solo but in an instance with a buddy. When the queue ends and you're given the countdown timer to join arenas, your buddy trades you your 300k dps gear he was holding for you.

Rinse and repeat. Of course they could fix it, but you're got to think like the guys that would want to get ahead.
 
Sn0_Man said:
And if wizards can range from 33K DPS to 300K DPS, I don't think there is an issue upgrading pawns to queens. In chess "point" calculations (useless, but they exist) a queen is worth 9 pawns.
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This will seriously be a non factor. It goes on WIN/LOSS ratio. So if you keep WINNING, and dont upgrade you will most definitely lose. And if you do upgrade, you will likely be in line with were you should be cuz you were consistently winning and now its not a "guranteed" win anymore.
 
They need to make a system that allows me to have pvp goodness on my 50k dps wizard, my fresh 60 barbarian, and my lvl 39 DH. Maybe they can't and we'll end up with another broken system.

Sounds like if you have one geared character, and pvp with it, trying to pvp with any character less geared will result in nothing but losses.
 
chockomonkey said:
That'd be the easiest solution to stop the trolling, but honestly it's a crappy one. Having the rating be tied would make it retarded to try to PvP on more than one champ.

Stupid.
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Yeah I worded that badly I didn't mean it like that. Its like on Starcraft. You have a seperate rating for 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4. So something like that. They could have a rating for each of your chars and the size of the match.
 
So PvP is going to be 100% gear based, so tournaments are going to show who is willing to spend the most for the best gear, sound awesome!:rolleyes:
 
darkstarcow said:
So PvP is going to be 100% gear based, so tournaments are going to show who is willing to spend the most for the best gear, sound awesome!:rolleyes:
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Sigh, have you read this whole page of posts? What you said is completely untrue. It should only pit you against people who have similar win-loss ratios. If you really think about it, pvp is kind of trivial when the system is designed to keep you in the middle of a normal distribution. It is designed so that you win just as much as you lose.

Look at all the statistics of all the top grandmaster players in Starcraft. They are always in the 60% win ratio. Maybe a few 70%(rare) here and there but the majority are in the 60s. They are all in the same pot just a tad to the right of a normal distribution, because there is no league above them, and they mostly have to play amongst themselves. Actually you could say that the leagues themselves are appropriately distributed also. Anyway, I digress, slow day here at work I guess
 
good info Rdzona.

I have never played PVP so its all new too me.

Base on what I have read trolls can have a field day...but I really think that will be few and far between due to the large amount of time wasted just to do it. Blizzard could curb this by having a streak multiplier. 10 wins in a row could trigger a larger bump in rank or something.

the only way I can see major toll action is with game loss bots. They could leave that bot running for a month and get 10000 losses then hop in with elite gear and play a few thousand games before it evens out.....but if this does happen I'm sure blizzard with put in some rules.

But I don't think its going to be enough of an issue for blizzard to care.


But I don't really care too much about public games......as long as they let me smack my friends around I'll be happy........ especially my DH friends who think they are hot stuff because they have 200k damage with sharpshoot at 100%........O I can't wait to legitimately rape them.
 
Rdzona said:
slow day here at work I guess
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QFT. Glad you're here keeping things interesting ^_^

Anyway, i think we had a similar conversation a bit back in this thread, about the ELO queue system and how it keeps people at 50/50. It kinda sucks, but it's honestly the best anyone has come up with that's fair. So, it is what it is, i guess.

Now what would be really crazy, is if they're taking so long in order to add capture the flag and other wow-type battlegrounds to the game.

Now that would get people (read:me) interested in the PvP.
 
Meh, don't care at all about PVP. Just give me more green and gold drops and I'll be happy. This should impove greatly in 1.05 if they're doubling the drop rate on its own, plus all the additional MF from MP.
 
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