Diablo 3 Discussion Thread

stevedave said:
good info Rdzona.

I have never played PVP so its all new too me.

Base on what I have read trolls can have a field day...but I really think that will be few and far between due to the large amount of time wasted just to do it. Blizzard could curb this by having a streak multiplier. 10 wins in a row could trigger a larger bump in rank or something.

the only way I can see major toll action is with game loss bots. They could leave that bot running for a month and get 10000 losses then hop in with elite gear and play a few thousand games before it evens out.....but if this does happen I'm sure blizzard with put in some rules.

But I don't think its going to be enough of an issue for blizzard to care.


But I don't really care too much about public games......as long as they let me smack my friends around I'll be happy........ especially my DH friends who think they are hot stuff because they have 200k damage with sharpshoot at 100%........O I can't wait to legitimately rape them.
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Interesting that you bring up the streak multiplier thing, I don't know for absolute certain but I do think Blizz has something like this. I know I keep referencing Starcraft, but I think its appropriate since it uses the same system.

Anyway, on SC2, you'll notice that if say your in the platinum league, and you win 10 games in a row, your 11th game could very well be with a Diamond league player (next league up) even if you weren't rank 1 in plat. So based on good win streaks it can force a game on you that may otherwise be considered an outlier. If you win, you could possibly be moved to the higher league. So I do think that they have this kind of thing, its not just some steady linear progression. You will make pretty good jumps if you go on win streaks.

Thats why I think its kind of dumb that people create smurf accounts b/c if you want to remain in the lowbie leagues, well you're going to have to purposefully lose a fair amount of time. Just to what, beat up on them the other half of the time? I would rather the games be competitive and still win and lose probably the same amount of times, but everyone is different I guess.
 
Great pvp variant : put a nice legendary on the middle of the arena and let opponents battle till the first one grab it.
 
Xilikon said:
Great pvp variant : put a nice legendary on the middle of the arena and let opponents battle till the first one grab it.
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Yeah I've heard of a lot of cool ideas like this. Something like capture the flag where the "flag" is a legendary item. And you have to defend it for a certain amount of time. Or in like a 4v4 game, one player on one team has to carry the legendary back to the safe zone, and the carrier can't attack so the other 3 teammates have to protect him, effectively making it 4v3.

I think there are a lot of cool ideas and chances are Blizz wont get it right first time out :(
 
Nah make it a treasure goblin with a ton of health. Killing blow gets the pinata.
 
Megapost time ;)

Rdzona said:
This will seriously be a non factor. It goes on WIN/LOSS ratio. So if you keep WINNING, and dont upgrade you will most definitely lose. And if you do upgrade, you will likely be in line with were you should be cuz you were consistently winning and now its not a "guranteed" win anymore.
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Actually, ELO completely disregards win/loss ratio. It merely assigns you a rating based on the ratings of people you beat and lost to based on their ratings at the time you played them. A 52% win rate bronze player (there are lots) would get utterly demolished by a 48% win rate masters player (there are lots of these too). Not enough people understand that ELO doesn't care about win rate. It is the job of the matchmaking system to match similar ELOs against each other, to make them win ~50% of the time. However, with gear swapping causing extremely fluid ELOs, the system will not be capable of this without taking currently equipped gear into account.

The issue is, I can inflate my actual ELO (a rating of how likely I am to win vs other ELOs) without changing what blizz thinks my ELO is (a rating of how I did in the past). Just by changing gear.

Rdzona said:
Yeah I worded that badly I didn't mean it like that. Its like on Starcraft. You have a seperate rating for 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4. So something like that. They could have a rating for each of your chars and the size of the match.
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The problem is that gear, which is by all accounts the most important part of a character, can often (although admittedly not always) be shared across characters within a single account (or across multiple accounts). If I can share the gear, then character based rating is bad. However, if the gear I have is class-specific, then account-based rating is bad. Either way, it won't be perfect, unfortunately :(

Ritorix said:
Nah make it a treasure goblin with a ton of health. Killing blow gets the pinata.
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That would be fun, but somehow I feel like it would end up as a complete DPS war.

Anyway, sorry for the long post etc. I know you disagree, and it is a silly argument on the internet, but I would like you to know that your understanding of ELO is simply not accurate, and I would also like to mention that ELO is an extremely poor system for Diablo 3 :)
 
Sn0_Man said:
I would also like to mention that ELO is an extremely poor system for Diablo 3 :)
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Thanks for the great explanation.

Woudln't it be better if they just matched people randomly (without any regard for someone's win/loss or rating) with the team which has the closest cumulative 'gear rating' currently equipped, and from the time of queuing, not allow gear changes?

Then you would actually have a win/loss ratio that meant something, and it'd all come down to your skill, build, and stat choices on your gear.
 
Sn0_Man said:
Megapost time ;)



Actually, ELO completely disregards win/loss ratio. It merely assigns you a rating based on the ratings of people you beat and lost to based on their ratings at the time you played them. A 52% win rate bronze player (there are lots) would get utterly demolished by a 48% win rate masters player (there are lots of these too). Not enough people understand that ELO doesn't care about win rate. It is the job of the matchmaking system to match similar ELOs against each other, to make them win ~50% of the time. However, with gear swapping causing extremely fluid ELOs, the system will not be capable of this without taking currently equipped gear into account.

The issue is, I can inflate my actual ELO (a rating of how likely I am to win vs other ELOs) without changing what blizz thinks my ELO is (a rating of how I did in the past). Just by changing gear.



The problem is that gear, which is by all accounts the most important part of a character, can often (although admittedly not always) be shared across characters within a single account (or across multiple accounts). If I can share the gear, then character based rating is bad. However, if the gear I have is class-specific, then account-based rating is bad. Either way, it won't be perfect, unfortunately :(



That would be fun, but somehow I feel like it would end up as a complete DPS war.

Anyway, sorry for the long post etc. I know you disagree, and it is a silly argument on the internet, but I would like you to know that your understanding of ELO is simply not accurate, and I would also like to mention that ELO is an extremely poor system for Diablo 3 :)
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Owned.
 
I'd like a teamVsTeam survival match that Spawns a constant stream of hordes that progressive get stronger. The game goes until all are dead or at least the loosing team is dead.

You get points 2 ways.

1. Kills and Damage
2. Survival Time

Like Left 4 Dead survival pretty much but putting 2 teams against each other in a time and damage attack.
 
Sn0_Man said:
Megapost time ;)



Actually, ELO completely disregards win/loss ratio. It merely assigns you a rating based on the ratings of people you beat and lost to based on their ratings at the time you played them. A 52% win rate bronze player (there are lots) would get utterly demolished by a 48% win rate masters player (there are lots of these too). Not enough people understand that ELO doesn't care about win rate. It is the job of the matchmaking system to match similar ELOs against each other, to make them win ~50% of the time. However, with gear swapping causing extremely fluid ELOs, the system will not be capable of this without taking currently equipped gear into account.
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Sigh, I never said this. Thats why they have LEAGUES!

Oh and I also I understand it perfectly fine. When you say completely disregards win/loss ratio, well that is not accurate either. Your performance rating can ONLY be inferred by wins, losses, and draws. Thats it!!!!!! There is nothing else in the case of say chess or starcraft. I was simply giving a brief overview because when it boils down to it, neither you nor I know exactly how Blizz is going to implement this system. So when you say things with such absolution that you can inflate your rating by changing gears and yada yada yada, you are ignorant to think that you have this figured out. All you'll have simply done is beat someone and the system will take the difference of both your MMRs into account and adjust them as necessary.

I didnt really feel like it was necessary to bust out math on a forum, but you can bet that wins and losses are definitely wrapped up in the rating. How do you think you get this assigned rating if not for wins/losses/draws???
 
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Also this is for Snowman

As you seem to think that you'll just be able to slap on gears and mop the floor with people on a continual basis.

Uncertainty
The system knows that players may perform at a level above or below their MMR. This is represented as a hidden variance factor called "uncertainty". In conjunction with MMR, uncertainty determines your range of potential opponents, and that uncertainty can increase or decrease, thereby widening or narrowing that range, depending on the outcome of each game. If no player is in the queue who is within your uncertainty range, that range will gradually increase until a match is found. Uncertainty also determines how drastically MMR changes after a match. Generally speaking, the system becomes more uncertain about you when you beat a player whose MMR is higher or lose to one with a lower MMR, and less uncertain when you beat a player with a lower MMR or lose to one with higher MMR.

mys0N.jpg


In the example above, the red line represents Player 1’s MMR. The curve colored blue represents the deviation of skill that this player may exhibit over time. Any player knows that there are external factors that may affect your play: playing on tilt, being unusually focused, getting distracted. The uncertainty curve is a graphical representation of that level of inconsistency. Players who are found to be close to your MMR (which would be near the peak of your curve) should statistically be a close match.

So if your beating people that you shouldn't be because of gear swapping, that big blue area, known as a distribution, is just going to get wider and wider, representing greater uncertainty. You will then have a large variance and it could possibly be matching you up with people who will kick your ass even in a gear swap scenario.

All credit goes to Excal
 
Sn0_Man said:
Megapost time ;)



Actually, ELO completely disregards win/loss ratio. It merely assigns you a rating based on the ratings of people you beat and lost to based on their ratings at the time you played them. A 52% win rate bronze player (there are lots) would get utterly demolished by a 48% win rate masters player (there are lots of these too). Not enough people understand that ELO doesn't care about win rate. It is the job of the matchmaking system to match similar ELOs against each other, to make them win ~50% of the time. However, with gear swapping causing extremely fluid ELOs, the system will not be capable of this without taking currently equipped gear into account.

The issue is, I can inflate my actual ELO (a rating of how likely I am to win vs other ELOs) without changing what blizz thinks my ELO is (a rating of how I did in the past). Just by changing gear.



The problem is that gear, which is by all accounts the most important part of a character, can often (although admittedly not always) be shared across characters within a single account (or across multiple accounts). If I can share the gear, then character based rating is bad. However, if the gear I have is class-specific, then account-based rating is bad. Either way, it won't be perfect, unfortunately :(




Anyway, sorry for the long post etc. I know you disagree, and it is a silly argument on the internet, but I would like you to know that your understanding of ELO is simply not accurate, and I would also like to mention that ELO is an extremely poor system for Diablo 3 :)
Click to expand...


ELO seems like a fine system for D3. The design of ELO is that I have fun by playing close matches most of the time by pitting people close to my ELO, 50/50 W/L ratio is just a side effect of the design. I'd rather have a ~50/50 win loss ratio if most of the games are close, intense and fun battles because I'm playing with people close to my ELO than to have a 90/10 win/loss ratio where every game I played was utterly too easy or too hard.


Especially since they dont want to focus on PVP in this game, I dont think the rewards will be great enough to rage from losing games or to warrant gear-sharing or some other stupid trick to keep winning. They need to focus on the fun factor and not caring about winning. PVP does not need to be another paragon grind.

There is no perfect system. Even taking gear out of the equation, I can raise or lower my ELO by not caring about a game and suddenly tank my ELO, or by playing with my friends. My brother is a masters leauge SC2 player, but when he plays with my cousins he stays in the silver leauge. This is partly because my cousins are really bad at the game, but mostly because he doesn't give a shit and tries silly things like overlord overloads and cannon monopolizing the map.

I think PVE objectives in PVP games is where D3 can shine, since the game was designed around PVE. I wouldnt want the scale of alterac valley, but there are tons of possibilities.

Team DPS score vs an uber boss, where the team currently in first is the only one with aggro and can be damaged by the boss. Of course people can kill each other during the fight too. Tank oriented builds can still be useful over glass cannons by making death penalties high.

King of the hill, Juggernaught, Last man standing, anything other than straight up deathmatches seems like they could potentially be more fun than deathmatches.
 
So I'm getting back into this game after selling my computer and finally getting one again a few months later, would D3 still be worth playing?
 
DJ Big T said:
So I'm getting back into this game after selling my computer and finally getting one again a few months later, would D3 still be worth playing?
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If you liked the game the first time you played then you'll like it even more now as they improved a lot of the systems that the game is based on. Like the loot system, difficulty settings, etc. If you didn't like the game before you still won't like it as nothing really has changed; only a tweaking of the numbers that the game runs on. Well mobs that don't regenerate health is something different.

I'm sure someone else will get more specific about it. Personally I'd just read the patch notes on the D3 official forums.
 
Three bars from 48. 50 is so close yet so far. Can't wait to get that new portrait =D

If anyone switches to HC, feel free to contact me if you need any help.
 
Yoshiyuki Blade said:
Nice man, I've been stuck at 46 (on SC) while awaiting the patch. That's some quick progress there.
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I've been hanging around that point as well. Hard to play when you know so many changes are come and gear drops are going to be so much better.

D3 needs gear to bind on equip imo. Would solve a lot of the pvp complaints, as well as even out the market.
 
So I just hopped on to do a run and got 2 legendaries lol. Not worth a lot though, a Vile Ward with a fair str roll and 2 garbage random affixes and a worthless ilvl 61 staff The Tormenter. I'll prolly make a mil at most.
 
I've been trying to unload my stash before the patch. Made a decent amount. I'm sitting on 100m with probably another 60ish worth on the AH. Going to be interesting to see what happens to the market.

I wish they'd give us some sort of date on 1.0.5. Feels like we've been waiting forever.

Though I wish they did anything at all with Monks to promote more diversity. I'd rather play my WD at this point but having 47 Paragon levels on the Monk makes it hard to justify switching
 
Apparently they're in the talks about Monk changes, so I guess you can look forward to something after patch 1.0.5. They didn't specify exactly when it will be though; it might be for 1.1 or sooner.
 
Yoshiyuki Blade said:
So I just hopped on to do a run and got 2 legendaries lol. Not worth a lot though, a Vile Ward with a fair str roll and 2 garbage random affixes and a worthless ilvl 61 staff The Tormenter. I'll prolly make a mil at most.
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I found one of those staves the other night too, haha. Tonight I hopped on my laptop just to show a buddy something and, with only 4 NV stacks, found IK gloves on the Bridge of Korsikk. Only my second set item find but I was pretty thrilled with them (175 STR, 9.5crit chance, INT/DEX random stats).

Azmodan gave me like 10 blues and 2 rares, but a random champion pack on the Bridge of Korsikk drops IK gloves...sure, why not? RNG.
 
tehslippery said:
I've been trying to unload my stash before the patch. Made a decent amount. I'm sitting on 100m with probably another 60ish worth on the AH. Going to be interesting to see what happens to the market.

I wish they'd give us some sort of date on 1.0.5. Feels like we've been waiting forever.

Though I wish they did anything at all with Monks to promote more diversity. I'd rather play my WD at this point but having 47 Paragon levels on the Monk makes it hard to justify switching
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They just had monk changes in 1.0.4. 7 sided strike is off the chain now.

Once they reduce the damage done my monk should be able to run act 3 and I have a turbo monk with 34 % movement speed and high enough spirit regeneration that I can use tempest none stop.......Fastest character in the game.

Pretty much this build but with Less defense and more speed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-w6Vdh0xva0
 
Aix. said:
I found one of those staves the other night too, haha. Tonight I hopped on my laptop just to show a buddy something and, with only 4 NV stacks, found IK gloves on the Bridge of Korsikk. Only my second set item find but I was pretty thrilled with them (175 STR, 9.5crit chance, INT/DEX random stats).

Azmodan gave me like 10 blues and 2 rares, but a random champion pack on the Bridge of Korsikk drops IK gloves...sure, why not? RNG.
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yea this is annoying. Bosses are bosses for a reason. They should be where loot comes from.

stevedave said:
They just had monk changes in 1.0.4. 7 sided strike is off the chain now.
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what do you mean 'off the chain'?
 
Damage on 7-sided was increased in 1.04. It is pretty crazy, plus giving you a little window of invulnerability while you jump around.

Monks are effective but kind of monotonous. Punch Punch BOOM. Punch Punch BOOM. Repeat forever.
 
Bowhuntr11 said:
Nah that would be pretty dumb imo...

"anybody want to kill this same boss 50 times tonight?"
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There are a lot of bosses in the game, you know. (Event bosses, quest bosses, champion packs, and then finally act bosses)

Current loot drops wouldn't even have to be changed. Just add in some more legendary and set items, and make them part of various boss's loot tables.

Currently, my friends still playing are like "anybody want to farm this same part of act 3 50 times tonight?" so i don't see the difference from what you say above.

I'd have way more fun farming if i could aim for certain drops off various bosses and areas, instead of their current one-loot-table-for-everything approach.
 
Did a run today and got some strongarm bracers. Total of like 200 more dps then my rares. Gonna see if they sell on AH, if not I'm just going to use them.
 
Finally hit lvl 50 =D

Can't believe I've made it that far. Honestly thought I'd have died.
 
Wow, had some internet issues yesterday, sold stuff and have the AH log to prove i sold 1.6M in goods yesterday. Best day every for me (I have had shit for loot drop). Total brought me to over 6M. Log in yesterday afternoon, and AH logs still there, but only 4.8M in my account, What I would have had if I didn't sell anything on AH yesterday. WTF. Even more interesting, when I logged in, my account was on the RMAH when I opened the game, and I never use the RMAH.

WTF BLIZZ. I have an authenticator, so I can assume I wasn't hacked, but WTF is going on in the game?
 
Mindlessly slaughtering things over and over can be its own entertainment. Sometimes you just need something mindless
 
Quick question:

Is Diablo 3 like Steam where you use a CD key, attach it to your Battle.net account, and then can download the game from Battle.net?
 
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