Diablo 3 Discussion Thread

CrimsonKnight13 said:
What's this Zoltan Khulle trick that's being talked about? :)
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You can pull him and kite him and his mobs to one side of the bridge and then DPS them down from the other if you are ranged. The mobs and Khulle are too big the cross the bridge so they are basically stuck in place so you can kill them easily.
 
DJ Big T said:
Well two weeks into the game and I've pretty much done everything I can. I've got the max DPS I can possibly afford without harvesting millions of gold for my DH, etc etc... I'm looking forward to PvP. Coolest thing I'm trying to get now is the cow level, which requires certain items. The rainbows and flowers and whatnot are hilarious.
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The mats can be farmed in less than an hour on normal. I really don't think its worth all the gold to upgrade it though...
 
Jutsu said:
The mats can be farmed in less than an hour on normal. I really don't think its worth all the gold to upgrade it though...
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The inferno one costs 1,000,000

I already regret buying the Hell one for 500k...

One of their dumber decisions. They let you change skills whenever and elective mode is great. Yet I can't change my skills or I'll lose NV. So I have to really plan ahead and find a build that works for both trash/blue/elite mobs and bosses.
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They basically dropped the ball there. I have no idea why they thought it was a good idea to do this. Maybe they wanted a blanket way to avoid any sort of skill abuses they couldn't think of, but that's hardly a justification to force one build. They advertise build diversity but simultaneously punish choosing different skills.
 
Jutsu said:
You can pull him and kite him and his mobs to one side of the bridge and then DPS them down from the other if you are ranged. The mobs and Khulle are too big the cross the bridge so they are basically stuck in place so you can kill them easily.
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Nice. Thanks for the tip. :)
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
The inferno one costs 1,000,000

I already regret buying the Hell one for 500k...
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Inferno Whimsyshire can be pretty good for high dps weapons. What me and a buddy do is clear the level, kite all the elites to a secluded location, then max out on MF gear and open all the clouds/pinatas/pots.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
The inferno one costs 1,000,000

I already regret buying the Hell one for 500k...
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Ya I haven't bothered upgrading mine from the normal version. I just use it to show my friends the level after they beat the game for the first time. It really doesn't even compare to the cow level. In the cow level, there were sooooo many mobs, and items dropped liked crazy. There really is no incentive or bonus for farming there it seems...
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
The inferno one costs 1,000,000

I already regret buying the Hell one for 500k...


They basically dropped the ball there. I have no idea why they thought it was a good idea to do this. Maybe they wanted a blanket way to avoid any sort of skill abuses they couldn't think of, but that's hardly a justification to force one build. They advertise build diversity but simultaneously punish choosing different skills.
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Well if they didn't do this, and you were able to switch any/all of your skills on the fly, wouldn't it then just make more sense to make all your skills available to you at all times? It would amount to being the same thing. I think the way Blizzard implmented the skill system is fine, as it forces you to choose between a limited number of resources at your disposal. Remember, you skills are your 'build'. If you were able to switch out at any time, then we'd all have the essentially the same build during fights becuase you just get access to everything.
 
Nearsite said:
Well if they didn't do this, and you were able to switch any/all of your skills on the fly, wouldn't it then just make more sense to make all your skills available to you at all times? It would amount to being the same thing. I think the way Blizzard implmented the skill system is fine, as it forces you to choose between a limited number of resources at your disposal. Remember, you skills are your 'build'. If you were able to switch out at any time, then we'd all have the essentially the same build during fights becuase you just get access to everything.
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They already enforce a pretty strict 60 second (or so... never timed it) cooldown for switching skills on the fly in Inferno.

It was VERY evident when I first go to Inferno and swapped a skill outside of town. It took forever for the cooldown to be up. This cooldown is already 'penalty enough' to discourage active skill swapping. I don't see anything wrong with porting back to town to adjust a few skills for a particular boss. I think this adds more flavor to the game.
 
Nearsite said:
Well if they didn't do this, and you were able to switch any/all of your skills on the fly, wouldn't it then just make more sense to make all your skills available to you at all times? It would amount to being the same thing. I think the way Blizzard implmented the skill system is fine, as it forces you to choose between a limited number of resources at your disposal. Remember, you skills are your 'build'. If you were able to switch out at any time, then we'd all have the essentially the same build during fights becuase you just get access to everything.
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You can switch out at any time. Even during boss fights. The only thing is if you do that with Nephalem Armor, you lose the buff. They've created a system with no penalty(aside from cooldown) for switching skills then put in a penalty that doesn't make sense.
 
BigBallinGPR said:
What do you mean the mechanics are annoying and that you can't play how you want? You mean that you have to modify your gameplay because of the different types of mobs? Some clarification would be nice.
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Sorry for being vague--i'm specifically talking about CC and snare effects. They become more and more worthless as you progress through difficulties. Mobs are so fast in hell now that trying to kite is futile. Diamond skin on a wizard is practically a must, and i really enjoyed frost nova, but it just doesn't do the trick anymore. Seems to only last for 1.5 seconds. Probably last for an even shorter duration in Inferno. I'm 57 or so, yet still cannot solo past mid act 1 in hell because the mobs are so hard.

It just feels like they are phasing out certain moves, yet i should be able to use all my moves in inferno
 
I personally find at this time it's difficult to have one build that works across the board. So when it comes to mobs vs bosses it would be nice to have different builds. Giving NV that penalty actually forces people into one build, and in time they will all be basically the same.
 
chockomonkey said:
Sorry for being vague--i'm specifically talking about CC and snare effects. They become more and more worthless as you progress through difficulties. Mobs are so fast in hell now that trying to kite is futile. Diamond skin on a wizard is practically a must, and i really enjoyed frost nova, but it just doesn't do the trick anymore. Seems to only last for 1.5 seconds. Probably last for an even shorter duration in Inferno. I'm 57 or so, yet still cannot solo past mid act 1 in hell because the mobs are so hard.

It just feels like they are phasing out certain moves, yet i should be able to use all my moves in inferno
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If you can't solo Hell as a wizard you either need to get better or buy gear.

Sorry to sound so cruel but it's not that difficult.
 
Dallows said:
If you can't solo Hell as a wizard you either need to get better or buy gear.

Sorry to sound so cruel but it's not that difficult.
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I guess we'll have to agree to disagree; I'm no RPG newb by any means but I'm having quite a bit of difficulty. Normal mobs die in 1-2 hits, but to clear a blue pack means anywhere from 3 to a dozen deaths, depending on the combination of their perks.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
They already enforce a pretty strict 60 second (or so... never timed it) cooldown for switching skills on the fly in Inferno.

It was VERY evident when I first go to Inferno and swapped a skill outside of town. It took forever for the cooldown to be up. This cooldown is already 'penalty enough' to discourage active skill swapping. I don't see anything wrong with porting back to town to adjust a few skills for a particular boss. I think this adds more flavor to the game.
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Yeah, I agree with you on that!
 
chockomonkey said:
Sorry for being vague--i'm specifically talking about CC and snare effects. They become more and more worthless as you progress through difficulties. Mobs are so fast in hell now that trying to kite is futile. Diamond skin on a wizard is practically a must, and i really enjoyed frost nova, but it just doesn't do the trick anymore. Seems to only last for 1.5 seconds. Probably last for an even shorter duration in Inferno. I'm 57 or so, yet still cannot solo past mid act 1 in hell because the mobs are so hard.

It just feels like they are phasing out certain moves, yet i should be able to use all my moves in inferno
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Welcome to the wizard world where all that's viable past nightmare is

1. Blizzard/Hydra kite
2. Massive stunlock (need lots of gear for this)

Oh and there's still some packs that you have to skip, no way around it.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
They already enforce a pretty strict 60 second (or so... never timed it) cooldown for switching skills on the fly in Inferno.

It was VERY evident when I first go to Inferno and swapped a skill outside of town. It took forever for the cooldown to be up. This cooldown is already 'penalty enough' to discourage active skill swapping. I don't see anything wrong with porting back to town to adjust a few skills for a particular boss. I think this adds more flavor to the game.
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They did it because so many people were complaining on the forums about not having a set "build" for their character like a skill tree gives and that their choices didn't matter because they could just change them at any time. So, blizzard said they would make this buff so you would join a game and make a "build" and it should last you the whole game you're in.

The penalty is just to stop skill swapping during combat and really doesn't have much to do with this decision.

They can't please everyone but I think it was a decent compromise
 
Scooty Puff Sr. said:
They did it because so many people were complaining on the forums about not having a set "build" for their character like a skill tree gives and that their choices didn't matter because they could just change them at any time. So, blizzard said they would make this buff so you would join a game and make a "build" and it should last you the whole game you're in.

The penalty is just to stop skill swapping during combat and really doesn't have much to do with this decision.

They can't please everyone but I think it was a decent compromise
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and yet the way that's balanced, only a handful of builds are viable.

It's painfully obvious they never tested inferno. With all these moves, too many are worthless once the game gets hard enough to have it matter.
 
Dallows said:
I personally find at this time it's difficult to have one build that works across the board. So when it comes to mobs vs bosses it would be nice to have different builds. Giving NV that penalty actually forces people into one build, and in time they will all be basically the same.
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Well according to Blizzard, if this occurs, then they would have to tweak the skills so that no one build is the 'optimal' build. Of course, I'm sure there would be some optimal build(s) for different types of mobs.

As a WD, I don't use my zombie dogs since they like, die in one hit, unless of course, I use the explosion skill.....wow I just thought of something!!!
 
chockomonkey said:
and yet the way that's balanced, only a handful of builds are viable.

It's painfully obvious they never tested inferno. With all these moves, too many are worthless once the game gets hard enough to have it matter.
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I will agree with you there. I'm pretty sure I read a post by Jay Wilson that said none of their internal testers even finished inferno. I think it was always their stance that they would just make inferno crazy hard to start and then tweak it after release.
 
The one thing I will say, despite my complaints, is that this game is still very, very early in its release. I expect Blizzard to change up skills, items, mobs, etc quite often as they tweak the game.
 
Scooty Puff Sr. said:
They did it because so many people were complaining on the forums about not having a set "build" for their character like a skill tree gives and that their choices didn't matter because they could just change them at any time. So, blizzard said they would make this buff so you would join a game and make a "build" and it should last you the whole game you're in.

The penalty is just to stop skill swapping during combat and really doesn't have much to do with this decision.

They can't please everyone but I think it was a decent compromise
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Well they clearly dropped the ball on skill diversity in terms of even 1 build per character.

All the Wizard guys that are complaining about skill diversity... every class is more or less the same. There are at least 4 skills per class that are just about mandatory on an inferno bar. There's a reason my DH buddy and I have identical skills and runes.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
Well they clearly dropped the ball on skill diversity in terms of even 1 build per character.

All the Wizard guys that are complaining about skill diversity... every class is more or less the same. There are at least 4 skills per class that are just about mandatory on an inferno bar. There's a reason my DH buddy and I have identical skills and runes.
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No issue there; I'm not complaining that it's a wizard specific issue, just an issue.
 
Nearsite said:
Well according to Blizzard, if this occurs, then they would have to tweak the skills so that no one build is the 'optimal' build. Of course, I'm sure there would be some optimal build(s) for different types of mobs.

As a WD, I don't use my zombie dogs since they like, die in one hit, unless of course, I use the explosion skill.....wow I just thought of something!!!
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It would be great if they started tweaking the other skills because a lot of them are useless.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
They already enforce a pretty strict 60 second (or so... never timed it) cooldown for switching skills on the fly in Inferno.
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I really feel compelled to correct this:

If you use an ability that has a long cooldown and you try to switch it out, you need to wait for the cooldown to finish before switching it out. This is not something based on difficulty.

The only "cooldown" when switching skills is about 5 seconds when the abilities are off cooldown. This is to prevent people from using abilities, say Wrath of the Berserker (Barbarian), then switching to another crazy cooldown immediately.

If it's in town, the skills switches immediately. There is no cooldown in this scenario.
 
TwistedAegis said:
The one thing I will say, despite my complaints, is that this game is still very, very early in its release. I expect Blizzard to change up skills, items, mobs, etc quite often as they tweak the game.
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Yea i'm hoping that once their done fixing their security issues, getting their cash cow (RMAH) running, and get the servers stable, we'll see many tweaks to skills and runes that are thought-out balance wise.

And as you say, blizzard made it retarded hard on-purpose likely so people woudln't beat it quickly. If i recall correctly, and this is thinking WAAAY back, MC was not tuned in vanilla wow for a bit, and then they tweaked the difficulty to make it possible.
 
chockomonkey said:
If i recall correctly, and this is thinking WAAAY back, MC was not tuned in vanilla wow for a bit, and then they tweaked the difficulty to make it possible.
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Fileplanet, back in the day, had videos of Molten Core attempts when it was released. The biggest headline I vividly remember was, "Ragnaros, is he IMPOSSIBLE?"
 
I remember a few top guilds threatening to cancel their WoW accounts if Blizz didn't nerf C'thun.
 
timtheenchantor said:
I really feel compelled to correct this:

If you use an ability that has a long cooldown and you try to switch it out, you need to wait for the cooldown to finish before switching it out. This is not something based on difficulty.

The only "cooldown" when switching skills is about 5 seconds when the abilities are off cooldown. This is to prevent people from using abilities, say Wrath of the Berserker (Barbarian), then switching to another crazy cooldown immediately.

If it's in town, the skills switches immediately. There is no cooldown in this scenario.
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And that's not true at all in Inferno. There's a 5 second cooldown in everything but Inferno. Unless you mean to imply that Hungering Arrow has a 60 second cooldown? And your statement actually makes no sense. When you use a long cooldown skill, you can't even swap that skill out until the cooldown's over regardless of if you're in town or on the field, so there is no swapping. The cooldown I'm referring to is AFTER you swap.

Interesting you say that - what skills/runes are you using in inferno?
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Hungering Arrow - Devouring Arrow
Elemental Arrow - Nether Tentacles (broken as hell)
SS - Lingering Fog
Vault - The rune that makes it cost no disc
Prep - The rune for this is actually swappable. 30% proc one is popular.
Marked for Death - This is the skill that's most flexible. But Mark works so well with NT on targets that you hit many times with 1 arrow (it returns 3 hatred per hit with the rune).
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
And that's not true at all in Inferno. There's a 5 second cooldown in everything but Inferno. Unless you mean to imply that Hungering Arrow has a 60 second cooldown? And your statement actually makes no sense. When you use a long cooldown skill, you can't even swap that skill out until the cooldown's over regardless of if you're in town or on the field, so there is no swapping. The cooldown I'm referring to is AFTER you swap.
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Let me clarify:

1) I use ability that has a 120 s cooldown.
2) I cannot swap that ability for another ability in that slot until it is up.
3) If I am in town, and that ability is off cooldown, I can swap it for another skill and it immediately goes into that slot. There's no 5-second timer that is applied.

In Inferno, when I popped in there in the zombie area (before entering Tristram), I was able to swap a skill and didn't have a 60-second cooldown. I did more research in what you said and it seems there is a 60-second cooldown. Sorry if I got this wrong. Maybe I ran into a bug or something? Oh well.
 
timtheenchantor said:
Let me clarify:

1) I use ability that has a 120 s cooldown.
2) I cannot swap that ability for another ability in that slot until it is up.
3) If I am in town, and that ability is off cooldown, I can swap it for another skill and it immediately goes into that slot. There's no 5-second timer that is applied.

In Inferno, when I popped in there in the zombie area (before entering Tristram), I was able to swap a skill and didn't have a 60-second cooldown. I did more research in what you said and it seems there is a 60-second cooldown. Sorry if I got this wrong. Maybe I ran into a bug or something? Oh well.
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It may be that very limited initial area before Tristram is still counted as "In town".
 
soulesschild said:
Welcome to the wizard world where all that's viable past nightmare is

1. Blizzard/Hydra kite
2. Massive stunlock (need lots of gear for this)

Oh and there's still some packs that you have to skip, no way around it.
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What's 2. Massive stunlock ?
 
AceCR42 said:
I remember a few top guilds threatening to cancel their WoW accounts if Blizz didn't nerf C'thun.
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As I remember it was said and proven with Excel spreadsheets, that C'thun was mathematically impossible to beat even with the best available gear and buffs at that time.
 
soulesschild said:
Welcome to the wizard world where all that's viable past nightmare is

1. Blizzard/Hydra kite
2. Massive stunlock (need lots of gear for this)

Oh and there's still some packs that you have to skip, no way around it.
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I tried blizzard a few times on inferno belilal. I never used it before then and didn't like it when I tried it. I've progressing through inferno act 3 just fine without blizzard.
 
Blizzard + Venom Hydra makes Belial a joke... as well as most of the other bosses, including Inferno difficulty.
 
finally found a key from ebay for $40 (didnt want to spend $60). enjoyed beta. but now lets see what the fuss is all about =/
 
ashmelev75 said:
Blizzard + Venom Hydra makes Belial a joke... as well as most of the other bosses, including Inferno difficulty.
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Blizzard + Venom Hydra + good gear.

Fixed it for you. I have Blizzard + Venom Hydra but lack good gear so I can't beat belial.....haven't even gotten past the damn snakes.

I didn't use start using Blizzard + Venom Hydra until the Butcher on Inferno, I wasn't able to kill him fast enough without it. Before that I was using Orb with Familiar and Magic weapon for rape damage.
 
stevedave said:
Blizzard + Venom Hydra + good gear.

Fixed it for you. I have Blizzard + Venom Hydra but lack good gear so I can't beat belial.....haven't even gotten past the damn snakes.

I didn't use start using Blizzard + Venom Hydra until the Butcher on Inferno, I wasn't able to kill him fast enough without it. Before that I was using Orb with Familiar and Magic weapon for rape damage.
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What is your highest damage with full damage gear? I burned the snakes down before they could touch me = no kiting needed. I guess though glass cannon requires good gear as well.
 
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