Dell U3011 coming soon.

Ashok0 - sorry that the Dell didn't work out for you. I, too, am sensitive to AG coating, so your opinions have definitely convinced me that this monitor is definitely not right for me, either.
 
Ashok0 said:
Well, I've got some mixed opinions on my U3011 after using it for a few days. The AG coating is starting to bother my eyes. :-(

I know for many people the AG coating may not be a big deal. But I put my old Hanns.G TN monitor side by side to the U3011, and imho whenever I had light colors being displayed, the Hanns.G really had a more satisfactory (I know this is subjective) picture.

I hate to be nitpicky because when watching movies and playing games the U3011 is GORGEOUS. But when I have light colors on the screen i.e. surfing in Firefox any TN panel still looks "clear" to me where with the U3011 I feel like I'm looking at a RAZOR SHARP image through a slightly dirty window. I know its just a small thing, and I may be overly sensitive to it... but for $1,499 dollars, I personally can't justify keeping a display that is way MORE "sparkly" and harder on my eyes than a $120 monitor that I could buy off the shelf at Best Buy. Every NON-glossy $100-200 TN display I have ever owned has never "sparkled" like the U3011. I'm no video expert but I don't really understand why DELL and NEC can't implement whatever non-glossy/non-sparkle process is done on cheap TN monitors.

For anyone who doesn't mind a slightly aggressive AG coating, I would say this monitor is perfect. Alas, I don't think I can adjust to the "sparkle" so I've decided to return my U3011 and buy the Apple LED Cinema 27" along with a Displayport capable Fermi card.
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I have the HP ZR30w which uses the same LG panel as the U3011. I've compared the screen versus different TN panels and I don't find the AG coating to be any worse. Maybe I am just one of those people that it does not bother?

I think the super mirror like gloss of the Apple 27" would be tons more distracting. With the gloss your eyes have a hard time focusing and you need super perfect light control which is harder to do than most people think. Reasons why virtually all monitors are non-glossy.
 
Ashok0. I became regretful after too long on the U2711 with that same coating. You absolutely should return it, because for some the coating stops being something they can "see" after time, but for some it gets worse and can lead to headaches. Moreover you are right it interferes with text in certain color ranges (like light greys) that make that text impossible to read. Do not take a $1500 object and thing "I'll make do". Be SURE folks, that you are 100% satisfied and if not send it back. If Dell got them all back you can bet they'd fix that coating. It's a defective product imo.
 
Anemone said:
. If Dell got them all back you can bet they'd fix that coating. It's a defective product imo.
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LOL

Dell doesn't make the coating. It is the same coating on every LG IPS screen in millions of Dells/NEC/HP/etc monitors.

If you are coating zealot (minority) buy a shiny glass Apple monitor (which have even more complaints for being glossy/reflective).
 
True Dell does not make the coating. However it does not seem to be the same coating on every monitor, and thus not the same on every panel. If you have some source that indicates it is, that would be interesting to see. Tracking down who makes this stuff and why it is the way it is might help to work on a fix.

You do realize there are forums where they are removing this coating it is that bad (meaning throwing away any chances at warranty, and in many cases destroying the monitor in the process).
 
LG makes virtually all IPS panels. I believe they use the same anti-reflection coating on them all. Why would they change it? I think more people hate the pitfalls of seeing your reflection 24/7 over having an anti-glare coating. Hence, why 95+% of monitors are non-glossy.
 
I fixed it, but will go into more detail on the 2711 page. Going to apologize to Snow, not for speaking my mind, but for doing too much so in his thread on the 3011.

Apologies :)
 
Vega said:
LG makes virtually all IPS panels. I believe they use the same anti-reflection coating on them all. Why would they change it? I think more people hate the pitfalls of seeing your reflection 24/7 over having an anti-glare coating. Hence, why 95+% of monitors are non-glossy.
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You can also have perfect anti-glare coating that is NOT "grainy".
Just look at Samsung PVA Panels. Anti-glare but they look als "clean" as a glossy display.

The first(!) difference I noted between my Dell U2410 (LG IPS) and Eizo S2433 (Samsung PVA) was how much cleaner the PVA Panel looks, the AG coating is much much less aggressive.
 
Homing Beacon said:
You can also have perfect anti-glare coating that is NOT "grainy".
Just look at Samsung PVA Panels. Anti-glare but they look als "clean" as a glossy display.
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That is quite dubious.

I had an LCD with a Samsung based TN panel sitting next to my NEC 2490 for over a year (and I have had a couple of PVA screens at home as well) and the Samsung AR coating was NOT as clear as a glossy screen, in fact it is was identical to the one on my NEC 2490 (which is supposed to be better than typical IPS do to the A-TW treatment).

I also had a Dell 3007 for a while and its coating was slightly more aggressive, but it is a question of degree, not one being fatal and the other perfect.
 
Ashok0, do you have a 3007wfp? You should compare the AG to that.

Are you serious AG coating is bad on the U3011?
 
I ordered a new catalog from Dell but its gonna take forever!

Anyone have a coupon code theyd be willing to share? PM me please!

I would like to order this monitor this week.
 
chong67 said:
Ashok0, do you have a 3007wfp? You should compare the AG to that.

Are you serious AG coating is bad on the U3011?
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chong67, I honestly have never seen any Ultrasharp displays in person minus the U3011.

Is the AG "bad" on the U3011? Well, any comment I make regarding the AG coating is going to be subjective. What I will say is this. I've seen comments which seem to promote this myth that the U3011 AG coating isn't any worse than other TN displays. This couldn't be farther from the truth.

The U3011 AG coating does create a "sparkle" effect which does NOT exist on my Hanns.G HW-191APB TN display which I purchased for $109. I also used to own a TN monitor built by Xerox which had XShield Protective Glass. The XShield blocked almost all reflections and glare and also had a very "clean" look with no resulting sparkle effect.

For some people, the "sparkle" may not be a big deal and may not be terribly noticeable. It is just something that my eyes are physically sensitive to. I sadly could not justify keeping a $1,499 monitor which I was not 100% happy with.

Ultimately, I loved everything about the U3011 but the AG coating was a showstopper for me personally. If you are on the fence on the AG coating, you can always order one risk free. If you don't like it, DELL has a good customer friendly return service. I called their support number, had a real person on the line in less than 5 minutes, and was emailed a UPS return label within 24 hours.

Well, I shipped the U3011 back today and am planning on picking up an Apple LED Cinema Display at my local Apple store this weekend. My room is very darkly lit some I'm hoping that glare won't be an issue. If it is a problem, it looks like I'm royally frelled.
 
Ashok0 -

When you get your cinema display, do you mind posting your impressions of the monitor on this forum? I also can't stand AG coating and would like to get the cinema display. But before I do, I'd love to see your impressions of the monitor once you get it. Thanks.
 
@addictedto60fps: Yup, I'll definitely keep everyone updated on my experience with the Apple versus DELL.
 
Ashok0 said:
@addictedto60fps: Yup, I'll definitely keep everyone updated on my experience with the Apple versus DELL.
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The Cinema display only has a mini-displayport input correct?

Will this be problematic with Radeon 5xxx cards? I know the 27" iMac had trouble with that series of cards. Basically wouldn't recognize that any input existed.

Or can one use a displayport to mini-displayport cable?
 
xveganx said:
The Cinema display only has a mini-displayport input correct?

Will this be problematic with Radeon 5xxx cards? I know the 27" iMac had trouble with that series of cards. Basically wouldn't recognize that any input existed.

Or can one use a displayport to mini-displayport cable?
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Yup, it only has minidisplayport. I think there is some kind of hardware bug/limitation that makes certain Radeon 5xxx cards incompatible with the cinema display. I don't think that limitation includes the 5970, which is what I have.
 
Ashok0, I got a 3007wfp and now the 3008wfp and it is much better than the 3007wfp. Yes, the 3007wfp screen is muddy.

You sure Apple monitor is any better? I saw this at Fry's store and the Apple monitor screen is muddy too. I say as bad as the 3007wfp. Unless you are talking of a newer model?
 
chong67 said:
Ashok0, I got a 3007wfp and now the 3008wfp and it is much better than the 3007wfp. Yes, the 3007wfp screen is muddy.

You sure Apple monitor is any better? I saw this at Fry's store and the Apple monitor screen is muddy too. I say as bad as the 3007wfp. Unless you are talking of a newer model?
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Older ACDs were standard LG matte coating.

Newer ACDs are highly reflective glass.
 
chong67 - the 27" cinema displays are glossy, from what I could tell. When I was at the Apple store the other day, the screen was bright and colorful and very clear. Not sure, but I think some of the older cinema displays/imacs had ag coating?

Edit: what Snowdog said. ;)
 
You'd think, after years of this being an issue, that Dell would at least offer the choice of glossy or non glossy. I have a smaller glossy display and it's not that bad to deal with. Way better than the coating used to deal with the glare. Of course, everyone seems to have diff opinions on the AG coating.

And the ACD's are glossy, but they do have an antiglare coating on them, much like a camera lens filter. Its gloss based, so it's not very strong. Anyway, I tend to think, from the way folks defend whichever they prefer, that there is market room for both displays. And one needn't worry too much about Samsung since they pretty much abandoned the S-PVA market in larger display sizes. I think they are winding things down and will eventually leave entirely, going solely for TN as a way to sell quantity to the masses.
 
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There has been some market research done on this that you can Google. One study found that 86% of buyers are looking for non-glossy.
 
Exactly, after all these years, Dell would think and have the brain to make even less AG coating! Totally disappointed.
 
All I'm saying is offering both isn't going to cost much more (in fact probably less) to manufacture. Then let the market decide which they prefer. I understand glossy has its own troubles, but there is zero choice right now in the 30" market.

And I'll chime in with several AG coated PVA displays around that they do not at all exhibit the same sparkle effect as the couple of IPS I've seen (3007 and 2711)
 
I have a Samsung 215TW (S-PVA) and a Samsung F2380 (C-PVA).

The AG coating on the 215TW is probably typical compared to a good TN panel.

The F2380 has minimal AG coating. Professional reviews and other users here have stated the same.

I had a Dell U2410 and the AG coating was a showstopper for me as well. All the hype about IPS being the best panel type drew me into this purchase. I later compared the AG coating of the Dell to the equivalent 24" HP model with the same panel. The HP seemed to have less of an AG coating but it was definitely there and bothersome.

I now think all IPS matte panels more or less have the same type of AG coating to the point where I would find it objectionable. For this, I think IPS is over-rated.

I would say that the new LED IPS glossy Apple Cinema displays are about the clearest you can possible get with a display. The only problem is that you may have glare issues. But I much rather deal with glare than have text look blurry and unfocussed. I too was hesitant on anything glossy but remember we all used to use CRTs with glossy screens.

I also have an iPhone 4 with the IPS retina display. The thing is amazingly clear. I'm now think glare is not so important anymore and would much like to get the new Apple 27” stand-alone monitor. Zoltac makes video cards with the mini-DP output and would think the GTX 460 would be a nice card to use with the Apple monitor.
 
They need to go back to the glossy panel like on my old NEC 20wgmx2. Best monitor I ever owned and it's a shame I outgrew the 20.1" size.
 
For this, I think IPS is over-rated
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100% agreed. IPS is good, and for some things very good, but vastly overhyped given the drawbacks. Yes something can be good and still overrated :)

But I much rather deal with glare than have text look blurry and unfocussed
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Yep! And I'd bet we're not the only ones. The only issue is that Apple is the only one to put out such a monitor so far. But I think there would be more folks who would take glare for increased contrast and getting rid of that AG coating.
 
Anemone said:
But I think there would be more folks who would take glare for increased contrast and getting rid of that AG coating.
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I think you have it backwards.

Polls show more people prefer matte to glossy. Majority tends to rule on this. You will just have to look elsewhere or get used to it.

In fact Dell had a few lower end glossy monitor and I think they got more complaints about these and I don't know if they carry any glossy monitors at all anymore.

I have no interest in glossy, but I would like to see LG get a better AR coating.
 
Well tell you what. Apparently Apple didn't give a hoot about "polls" and they seem to be selling a lot of screens. Given that the PC market is larger, even it if was 5 AG to 1 Glossy I'd still bet you'd sell a ton of glossy screens. Certainly a lot of laptops come glossy, and those sell pretty well.

I'm not saying sell the glossy instead of the matte, just one of each! If you want matte, take matte. If Mike wants glossy, he gets glossy. Nice and easy and not at all costly.

It's a win win.
 
Dear Samsung

Would you mind sending a few of your engineers over to us to show us how to build matte screens that aren't junk? Our customers are unhappy and in 10 years of building matte screens we still haven't gotten a clue.

Sincerely,
The incompetent LG manufacturing team
 
Anemone said:
Well tell you what. Apparently Apple didn't give a hoot about "polls" and they seem to be selling a lot of screens. Given that the PC market is larger, even it if was 5 AG to 1 Glossy I'd still bet you'd sell a ton of glossy screens. Certainly a lot of laptops come glossy, and those sell pretty well.

I'm not saying sell the glossy instead of the matte, just one of each! If you want matte, take matte. If Mike wants glossy, he gets glossy. Nice and easy and not at all costly.

It's a win win.
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In a ideal world yes, and I totally agree that consumers should get choices. But at the same time, some companies would rather please the majority and lose out a bit on the minority. Yeah, it would be nice for Dell to sell some glossy panels though, although I would probably never purchase.
 
Anemone said:
Dear Samsung

Would you mind sending a few of your engineers over to us to show us how to build matte screens that aren't junk? Our customers are unhappy and in 10 years of building matte screens we still haven't gotten a clue.

Sincerely,
The incompetent LG manufacturing team
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Yet, someone like me - I have no problems at all with the AG coating. =) And I'm sure many people don't either. The general public criticizes the glare on a glossy screen more than the "sparkly-ness" of a matte.
 
enyceexdanny said:
Yet, someone like me - I have no problems at all with the AG coating. =) And I'm sure many people don't either. The general public criticizes the glare on a glossy screen more than the "sparkly-ness" of a matte.
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With all due respect, the "general public" is mostly purchasing TN matte displays which do NOT have the strong "sparkle" effect which plague matte IPS displays.
 
Ashok0 said:
With all due respect, the "general public" is mostly purchasing TN matte displays which do NOT have the strong "sparkle" effect which plague matte IPS displays.
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A bunch of those TN screens are made by LG as well and will have the same coating as LG IPS screens. No one notices because they don't hang around forums obsessing about sparkle effect they read about on random TN panels.

Also Before the Aluminum iMacs, all Apples iMacs and ACDs were matte LG IPS and they received essentially no complaints. The switch to glossy has been met with a huge wave of complaints.

All NECs pro monitors have been matte IPS screens forever.

We switched to HP 2065 IPS monitors at work. I never heard anything but praise for them from everyone ( 50 people on my floor). Not one person complained about a sparkle effect. Again no one is hanging around on forums obsessing about sparkle they read about, so they have no problems.

Literally millions of people have been using screens with LGs Matte coating without issue. While a few of you zealots whine like it is the end of world.

Why don't you guys start a thread to whine about sparkle instead of crapping on this one, which is about the 3011 which since it "sparkles" you have no interest in and the rest of us can get back to talking about the 3011.
 
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Ashok0 said:
With all due respect, the "general public" is mostly purchasing TN matte displays which do NOT have the strong "sparkle" effect which plague matte IPS displays.
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That is quite true. But I still don't understand what the fuss is about. I am anal as hell when it comes down to things like this, yet it doesn't bother me. It's odd.. Maybe I'm turning blind.
 
I think people blow the whole AG coating thing out of proportion. On my IPS screen's I barely notice this "Sparkle" effect, and if so just on bright white backgrounds. I'd much rather have this then viewing my reflection 24/7.

I was in Best Buy the other day and checked out a bunch of laptops with glossy screens. Granted, Best Buy has a very high ambient room brightness but the reflections where so great you could barely see the screens. Super distracting on your eye focus. A lot of people don't realize, that even in a light controlled room, just the monitor giving off light and reflecting off your face is enough to produce a reflection.

It's the same reason every DLP rear-projection TV I've ever seen also has AG coating.
 
I've posted several times this same idea/fact:

I don't understand why it's so hard for these LCD panel makers to handle the AG issue. It's probably "easier" (read: cheaper) to make the finish a characteristic of the top layer of plastic and be done with it so that's what they do. I don't understand why they cannot offer models that are glossy but coated.

My Sony GDM-F520, GDM-F400 and Viewsonic PT700 CRTs had FANTASTIC AG coatings on the glass, functioning similar to the coatings on high end SLR lenses except they were stick on instead of bonded to the glass. The Sony in particular had very low glare and what was there was a very deep purple/blue rendering of the light source. It did, however, significantly reduce light transmission which might be another reason people don't want to do it. Now that most LCDs come set for 400 cd/m^2 I don't see it as an issue. Look at the GDM-FW900 thread and look at the pictures of people peeling their coating because of scratches to see the coating and how effective it is. I had no problem keeping my AR/AG coatings scratch/scuff free.

My plasma TV (Panasonic G25) also has an AR coating applied to the glass. It isn't as good as my Sony CRT displays but it's still very effective and doesn't seem to impact transmission as much.

So, why can't high end display manufacturers use untextured ("glossy") panels and apply a separate AR/AG coating which is also smooth. One problem is that the panel manufacturer would now need to make multiple versions of the "same" panel but maybe they already do that for Apple - I don't know.

I, personally, would be all over that. I agree that glossy with no AR coating would be a PITA most of the time but the solution is pretty old technology.
 
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