Dell U2410

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Xcelerate, Aug 6, 2009.

  1. Delete

    Delete Limp Gawd

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    "You got to be kidding right?... I wish i could get hold a women..." (fixed)

    Come on... you saw that coming right? :D

    Please don't hate me :)
     
  2. rosh

    rosh Limp Gawd

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    I didnt understand what u mean?:confused: . my mother tongue is not English.
     
  3. [H]adouken!

    [H]adouken! n00b

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    Saying you can't get a women (as a joke)
     
  4. sleekblackroadster

    sleekblackroadster n00b

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    so there are no discount coupons or anything from dell out right now to use on this baby?
     
  5. Syntax Error

    Syntax Error 2[H]4U

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    Negatory, but knowing Dell, it'll be back. ;)
     
  6. vick1000

    vick1000 [H]ard|Gawd

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    The Doublesight uses panel blocking for brightness control, a big draw back...huge draw back considering black level.
     
  7. telejeff

    telejeff n00b

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    Yeah, I can't believe I missed the coupon from last week. We'll just have to wait on it.

    Anyone try that Microsoft Bing cashback program? They claim if you create a cashback account and search for dell on bing, you get 5% off from the store. I hear it's 10% from ebay if you can find a U2410 from a dealer (seems a bit too early...I think Dell is the only place to get it). I'm still skeptical about how it works. I guess I'll just hold off until a coupon comes out.


    Man, this seems like the monitor to get right now. We'll find out more as more of the reviews roll in. Poll: If you can get a 2408WFP for 400 and a U2410 for 600, would you still hold out for the U2410?
     
  8. rosh

    rosh Limp Gawd

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    Bing works well, i got 5% off from bing.com, if u can wait one day i'll give u the answer, mine is coming tomorrow and moving from 2408wfp.
     
  9. rosh

    rosh Limp Gawd

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    No hate, i feel love about you. :D
     
  10. a123456

    a123456 Limp Gawd

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    Bing Cashback works most of the time but they hold your money for 60 days a lot of the time so it's similar to a MIR. I really only used it a lot back in the day when it was 25-30% off. But AFAIK, it still works just fine from my past few transactions within the last month or so. Supposedly, the Bing CB isn't really meant to stack with coupons but I don't think they check that hard.

    I don't have a 2408, but the U2410 is not worth 600. That's just the base list price in the United States. Usually, at least 1 week a month, you can find coupons for 15-20% off so if you're not in a big hurry, the coupons will roll around again.

    As far as the U2410 is concerned, I haven't really been overly impressed. It's definitely an upgrade over my previous monitors (2007WFP) so I'm generally happy but mine has a noticeable amount of backlight bleed. It's not enough to overcome my laziness of lugging around 30lb great distances for an RMA, though, so I don't think I'll try for an exchange.

    I'm also not really sure how well the blacks are supposed to be on H-IPS, but they are mediocre to me. As in RGB(5,5,5) looks exactly the same shade as RGB(0,0,0). I know it's not the most scientific test.

    The vast number of inputs is nice. The switching method for inputs and weird touch panel-type buttons for controls is not so nice. I prefer the hard buttons. The colors look better than my old monitor and the panel is quite a bit brighter at default settings. I don't have any special color calibration device on hand, though.
     
  11. Mastakill

    Mastakill Limp Gawd

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    just be lucky you have all those coupons once in a while in the US...

    I wouldn't have clue were to find them in the EU (BE more specific)

    the U2410 costs 955 dollar here (that is with tax though, but still...)
     
  12. Siggy123

    Siggy123 [H]Lite

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    Only coupon active right now is NQVX4R5XXSVD0T for $15 off

    I'd wait 'til next week :p
     
  13. vjcsmoke

    vjcsmoke [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yup the U2410 was available for around $405 before taxes with a 20% coupon pretty recently, I believe.
     
  14. rosh

    rosh Limp Gawd

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    Every Thursday dell releases coupons, stay tuned.
     
  15. rezonat0r

    rezonat0r [H]Lite

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    Initial thoughts after a couple of hours. I'm coming from a 24" ACD, the HP 2475 and the NEC 2690 before that, and whole slew of other *VAs including the 2408WFP. Overall, I can't imagine many people being disappointed with this screen, assuming the uniformity is acceptable to them. I'm really, really picky. On my unit the leftmost few inches do have a slight green cast, while the rightmost few inches have the requisite red cast. It's a common problem.

    Out of the box colors are good to my eye in Standard mode, and sRGB looks about right. I'm using OS X (10.6). The screen still needs calibration to bring gamma in line to correct for that "slightly washed-out from the factory" look. About on par with the 24" ACD here as far as out of the box accuracy. At zero brightness, the Dell would probably be too bright for me to work in a very dark room (I don't do this anyway). I still prefer the wider backlight latitude of the ACD but then we are comparing CCFL to LED.

    At first I thought the anti-glare coating was too much for me, but after getting everything positioned and sitting the proper distance from the screen it's not a problem. The coating is slightly less heavy than the NEC 2690, and text readability is fine.

    Brief testing on the lagom site reveals good black and white level out of the box with RGB 1,1,1 and 254,254,254 barely distinguishable. Very minor flickering only on Inversion test 4b. I know lagom's banding test isn't the best, but the Dell appears to perform on par with the NEC, much smoother than the ACD or HP. I guess the 12-bit LUT helps here?

    It's not very dark here yet, but my initial feeling is that if glow from lack of the A-TW polarizer is really bothersome, you may be sitting too close. We'll see as it gets darker.

    I paid about $500 with the coupon and feel the price is justified. I'll give Dell another chance or two to provide a panel with acceptable (to me) edge-to-edge uniformity before I give up.
     
  16. topcoach1

    topcoach1 n00b

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    I just received shipment of two 2408WFP screens. I was about to open the boxes, when I learned about the newly released U2410. The U2410 seems like a good screen, but I haven't read any definitive reviews comparing the 2408WFP to the U2410. Does anyone have strong opinions?

    I was going to run the 2 screens side by side, with one of them in landscape mode and the other in portrait. I will use the screens mostly for business applications, but will also do some picture and video editing on it. I can't say my eye is well trained for noticing color accuracy, but I do like the idea of the factory calibrated accuracy of the U2410. Anti glare features are also important, since the room I'm working in has large windows.

    Should I return the 2408WFP screens and get the U2410 screens. I could get it for almost the same price - I would just have to wait another week for the U2410s - although considering that I will be using them a lot for several years, waiting another week is not significant.

    Any input would be much appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2009
  17. rezonat0r

    rezonat0r [H]Lite

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    Then it's a no-brainer. I would trade them in for the U2410. Running a VA panel in portrait orientation is far from ideal. The 2410s will have higher resale value in the future, not only because its a higher end panel, but also the 2408's reputation was a bit tarnished by the A00 and A01 revisions.

    The main differences between the two are the stand and panel type.
     
  18. RavenShadow

    RavenShadow n00b

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  19. nigel1200

    nigel1200 n00b

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    Just got one, no excessive backlight bleed but has the dreaded green/pink tint.

    Will post the calibration report up later.

    Seems like this might be like the HP LP2475W all over again!
     
  20. rezonat0r

    rezonat0r [H]Lite

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    No backlight bleeding here. Nada.

    Since it's dark here I can now comment on the white glow. It's just not an issue (for me). I have to move my head forward about 8 inches before I start to notice any in the corners. I'll need to measure but I'm probably at about 1.5x the diagonal distance.

    As I type this with the standard forum color scheme, all four corners are inky black (for an LCD).
     
  21. TechnicalyChallenged

    TechnicalyChallenged n00b

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    Got this a few hours ago.

    Don't let the wide gamut FUD deter you from buying this monitor. Even the Adobe RGB factory setting looks much better than anything I could have gotten out of the Samsung 226BW. The sRGB preset looks very nice. Watched OTA HDTV as well as a 1080p trailer and saw no "sunburn" with the sRGB setting. The colors are a little "faded" but it doesn't bother me at all. After ordering I read this thead and thought I made a mistake, particularly since I could have bought two or even three 24" TN monitors for the price. As it turns out it's the best computer related buy I've ever made. Just gorgeous and worth every penny.
     
  22. rezonat0r

    rezonat0r [H]Lite

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    Same panel, same LG quality control. There really isn't a screen out there that isn't a lottery of some kind. Your odds just slightly improve the more you pay.

    I too will try to get a profile up later, might not be until tomorrow.
     
  23. Whoisthisreally

    Whoisthisreally [H]ard|Gawd

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    I don't see why colours should be 'faded' with good quality sRGB.
     
  24. ShadeZeRO

    ShadeZeRO Limp Gawd

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    I'm not sure if i want to get a 2nd HP LP2475w or just Pick up the U2410.
     
  25. bennyboy

    bennyboy n00b

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    I noticed some very strange behavior (at least it seemed so to me) when viewing the Lagom black level test. When the monitor is using the Adobe RGB or sRRB modes, the black squares seem horribly dithered. There is a very grainy, inconsistent appearance. But using any of the other modes, the blacks are completely solid and uniform.

    Does anyone have an idea about what is going on here?

    I have included two images I took with my camera. Of course I know that its nearly impossible to get an accurate image of near black colors, etc. When viewing the images you may think, "That's just camera distortion, different lighting, etc." But actually, you can see that on the Standard color mode the color is uniform and on the Adobe RGB mode the color is very blotchy and dithered-looking. This blotchiness is not due to a camera artifact, but is actually very close to how it looks on the monitor (strange grays and blacks mixed together.)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  26. bennyboy

    bennyboy n00b

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    Another thing I noticed: the 'pattern' of the dithering or blotchiness is static on the screen. Meaning, if I move the black square around the screen, the pattern does not move, but appears to be static. The appearance is as if the black square was a 'window' onto a strangely patterned background.
     
  27. rezonat0r

    rezonat0r [H]Lite

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    Confirmed. I think you could see it even in a non-macro shot. There is definitely some less than perfect dithering going on in sRGB mode, and the lagom test brings out the absolute worst. In real world usage though, I'm not sure how many people will notice.

    For instance, as I type this in sRGB mode, I'm looking at the grey strip just under the banner ad (the one with the breadcrumb forum navigation and Reply to Thread under that). There is some very slight dithering going on there if you look closely. But from a normal viewing distance, it resolves into a solid color.

    EDIT: Same with the grey background this post is written on.
     
  28. nomu

    nomu Gawd

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    Busted factory calibration or firmware. Probably has something to do with how the firmware is using the LUT. Too bad :(
     
  29. telejeff

    telejeff n00b

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    Thanks for this post. While it's a luxury to have so many high end and technical users on this forum, sometimes I feel like all the testing and analyzing is of a monitor's technical abilities and not its use. When most of us (those outside of pro graphics and video) use a monitor, we don't search for flaws. Don't get me wrong, deep analysis and accuracy tests easily reveal the flaws and provide indispensable information to the most picky of users, but it's important to ask ourselves if all of us plan to use this monitor in such a way. It's kind of like those extreme audiophiles: they don't listen to music; they listen to gear.

    When recommendations or opinions are shared, it's important that perspective and the degree of persnicketiness is made clear. Sometimes it's obvious we have a veteran graphic designer on our hands and other times, it's not. When such precise and minute flaws are shared, it can discourage (most of us don't have chance to stroll into best buy and expect demos to be available) readers from choosing a monitor that would otherwise satisfy their needs sufficiently.

    Sorry for going off topic!
     
  30. nigel1200

    nigel1200 n00b

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    He's the calibration report from the screen I got.

    Green tint on the left, darker on the right.

    [​IMG]

    Have also noticed the dithering as mentioned in one of the previous posts.
     
  31. tmoney468

    tmoney468 n00b

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    ^I wonder if something is up with your monitor...looking at my calibration report, my Grey Scale Tracking is basically a straight line at around 7000 K for the color temp, and the Gamma looks like an exponential curve (yours almost looks like a straight line).
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2009
  32. nigel1200

    nigel1200 n00b

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    Must be the tinting that is causing those results.

    Where was your u2410 manufactured?
     
  33. tmoney468

    tmoney468 n00b

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    Mine was assembled in Mexico, and the manu. date is July 2009. I'm not an expert when it comes to these calibration results, so is yours what it's supposed to be? Or is it supposed to be higher like mine?
     
  34. a123456

    a123456 Limp Gawd

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    Doubly confirmed. sRGB has dithering on those black tests while the standard modes don't. The colors are more accurate, but there's definitely a falloff in quality on the image using these patterns. It hasn't really bothered me in day-to-day usage so far, yet.
     
  35. topcoach1

    topcoach1 n00b

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    There are some Dell websites that say U2410 has a 0.277 mm pixel pitch, and other websites say it is a 0.27 mm pixel pitch. Why the discrepancy? Which is it?
     
  36. macmike

    macmike n00b

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    Hi. I am new here and I would like to add my observations to this topic.

    I just received my U2410 yesterday. I had high hopes for this monitor, being an IPS panel; but, in my opinion, the colors produced in sRGB emulation mode are not close enough to true sRGB. They look really flat to me. (Background: I am a web developer and photography enthusiast.) I also readily noticed the previously-mentioned dithering in the grays and blacks only when using sRGB mode. Very odd.

    I switched to "Custom" color mode and used the Saturation controls to adjust the color (by eye) so that it was as close as possible to my NEC 2490 in a side-by-side comparison. For the most part, it's really not too bad; but the hue of some colors is still off, particularly reds and greens. (Reds are a little too pinkish, and the greens are a little too cyan.) I tried to use the Hue controls to bring them back in line, but something very strange happens in the highlights of the image. It's like the highlights get posterized, for want of a better term. And it happens in all highlights, not just those with green or red in them. I'll upload photos to demonstrate, when I get a chance.

    I haven't noticed any sparkly effect due to the screen surface; but it could be that I'm just used to it from using my older Dell 20" Ultrasharp and the NEC 2490.

    I noticed a definite greenish to pinkish (left to right across the screen) color shift when viewing a solid gray image on the screen. Kind of annoying if you are sensitive to that sort of thing. (I am.) Even the NEC is a little more bluish on the left and yellowish on the right, but they give you a configuration setting to compensate for it, and the highest setting almost eliminates it completely.

    I definitely see a white glow in the corners when viewing a black image on the Dell. So, if your eyes are ~25" from the display, and you are sitting dead center, there is an equal amount of glow in all four corners of the screen, more pronounced the closer it gets to the corner. However, in actual practice, I haven't really found the glow to be objectionable. I think the brain interprets the glow as glare on the screen and sort of subconsciously compensates for it. Also, the white glow decreases in proportion to viewing distance. The greater the viewing distance, the less you see it (assuming you are viewing the screen dead-on). Even the NEC 2490, with its A-TW polarizer, has a weird reddish glow in the lower left and upper right parts of a 'black' screen. I've tried three NEC 2490's and they all had it.

    Using the Lagom test pages, the black level, white saturation, contrast, and gradient test pages look pretty darn good, when using my custom settings at least. The gamma calibration page reveals that the actual gamma appears to be somewhat lower (~2.0 - 2.1) than it should be when using the U2410's "PC" setting, although I admit I have a hard time reading that test image. On the viewing angle page, the word "lagom" is readily visible against the background, and I am not really sure why that is. However, it looks to be pretty consistent in appearance across the screen. On the NEC, the word lagom almost completely blends into the background.

    The Dell unit I received has a green stuck sub-pixel that is readily visible when viewing a dark image, which means this unit will have to be exchanged by Dell, that is, if I decide not to return it for a refund.

    I don't use the display for gaming or watching movies, so I am unable to offer an opinion about suitability for those applications.

    The monitor makes an increasingly louder humming noise which is inversely proportional to the brightness setting. But every 24" monitor I have tried has made a similar sound to some degree. Unless your work environment is dead quiet, you may not hear it.

    The capacitance-sensing "buttons" are somewhat difficult to operate because they seem to require the entire pad of your finger to touch the bezel, which puts one's hand at an awkward angle. I was expecting I could just touch it with my finger tip, but that does not work reliably on the display I have.

    The height of the stand could be taller. Even with the display as high as it will go, it's still not quite high enough for me. (And I am only 5' 7".) The NEC stand goes a few inches higher.

    The brightness of the Dell display is... like... WOW. I have to turn it down to a setting of about 20 or 25 to be useable. This roughly corresponds to a setting of around 40 on the NEC I have.

    I currently have both the Dell U2410 and NEC 2490 at home for evaluation; I will be returning one of them for refund. It is tempting to keep the Dell because it is $500 less than the NEC; but I am not sure I can live with the Dell's quirks and deficiencies, especially since I have seen what a really good monitor is capable of. ;-) I think it might bug me not knowing if the colors and gamma are close enough, and the green-pink shift could really get annoying.
     
  37. TheGrape

    TheGrape [H]Lite

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    I just got my U2410 today and its great! I was scared of issues surrounding Wide Gamut panels such as the green tinting but I dont see any of that with the panel I got. Colors have been great and Im overall happy with my purchase

    There is one problem I have though. The screen kind of "wavy". The waves go from bottom to the top of the screen. Its not major but I do see it even if Im not concentrating on the screen. Wondering if this is something that is a problem with the hardware or something I could fix with software. Dont really want to return this but if it doesnt get fixed then I might have to.
     
  38. rezonat0r

    rezonat0r [H]Lite

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    Yeah, that's what mine looks like too. I'd say the test equipment that analyzed his display wasn't working properly. Which brings up the question - with test results that out of whack, did Dell even notice? Or did someone check and say "well that can't be right, must be the analyzer, ship anyway?"

    Great first post macmike. Lagom's viewing angle test is basically a gamma test - rather, showing how gamma changes with viewing angle. But on an IPS screen it's more or less just a basic gamma test.

    If you were to hardware calibrate the Dell you would see the word lagom disappear like on the NEC. That would also reduce the washed out effect (including reds looking more pink). It sounds like you lucked out with your NEC; my 2690 still needed calibration to get the gamma right (so the word lagom disappears).

    Basically, I would not pay any mind to the "factory calibration" that Dell is touting here. It is very good marketing, but in reality the out-of-box performance isn't any better or worse than the other IPS panels I have experience with. Every screen still needs calibration if you are doing serious work with it (I'm also a web designer and video guy).
     
  39. tmoney468

    tmoney468 n00b

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    On the calibrator topic, I have a Colorvision Spyder 2 calibrator that I got several years ago...would that be usable with this monitor, or do you need a more recent one?
     
  40. macmike

    macmike n00b

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    rezonat0r: Thanks for the info about the gamma. I used a (borrowed) Spyder 3 calibrator on the Dell prior to checking the result on the lagom site, but that doesn't seem to have made a great difference. Please forgive my lack of knowledge, but what does it mean to "hardware calibrate" the display? Is that different than using a calibrator like the Spyder 3? As you know, the NEC provides a lot of controls to tweak, so I was able to tweak the gamma by eye, using the lagom site. I will continue to experiment with the Dell before deciding what to do with it. Maybe I can find a way to tweak it in.

    I may not have used the best terms to describe the colors I am seeing. The reds and greens that I describe on the Dell aren't washed out or too light, they're just slightly off in hue, or "cooler". For example, the reds are leaning toward more of a cherry red than a fire engine red. Like maybe a red that is supposed to be 255,0,0 is displaying more like 245,0,60. See what I mean? Greens are similarly off.