Dell and AMD

[BigMacAttack]

I think some of you guys are giving the average joe more credit then they deserve. They may recognize the names Intel and Pentium and associate them with being good, but all it'll take for most of them to buy an AMD computer is for someone they perceive to have greater knowledge in computers to assure them that AMD powered computers are nearly as good (or just as good) for their needs and show them the cheaper price tag.

With AMD now being backed by the big well known OEMs like Dell, HP, Gateway/eMachines and Lenovo it really shouldn't be very hard to sway the common people, who really don't have a clue about CPUs, over to AMD with lower prices.

Then as long as the computer isn't a lemon and it meets their performance expectations they'll be perfectly happy. And perhaps they'll have start developing some brand loyalty to AMD if they remember the name.

Well said. This has been precisely my point.

 

[Fuser]

I just completed a procurement of computers for a datacenter project. Requirements were a 1u system, decent dual core processor low on power, 1gb ram, 2x 80gb hdd's(sata/scsi/sas didn't care), IPMI, 24x7 onsite hardware support.

Nothing could beat Dell PowerEdge 1950 with a Xeon 5110, no Sun, HP, IBM, servers could come even close based on either Opteron or Xeon (and trust me I have a million quotes on a dl140 ).

I really cannot wait to see a Dell server line including Opterons and wish it happened a few months ago

 

[Donnie27]

Hey Donnie do me a favor - find ONE post in which I MYSELF have ever bashed Dell, since you seem to lump me in with all the rest of the AMD fanbase who, as you say, hate Dell and will never buy from them. I too own and have owned Intel systems, but I did not in this thread say or even imply that Intel was "second rate." I have nothing against Dell systems - as a matter of fact my laptop is a 2.2 Celeron purchased from Dell's refurb center so stick that in your pipe and smoke it. My company servers are Dells. I didn't buy them but I don't have a problem with them either. If they offer a good product for a good price who cares who powers it right? Sure, I prefer AMD in my desktop systems so if that makes me a flaming Green f**boy so be it. I don't mind. Just don't go telling me I am the reason (or one of the reasons) people here hate Dell because that is just a plain untrue fallacy which you can never back up from any of my posts, at least not to my recollection.
Will Dell sell more Intel systems than AMD systems? Most likely, no argument there. More power to them. So why are you so worked up about Dell offering AMD based systems and why do you hate AMD so much? I'm not trying to fight you, just curious. You seem to have it in for AMD and I'm curious as to why. Are you a stock holder who has gotten burned by them or what? Honestly, I really am curious.

Oh, now you want me to post again?

AMD's current processrs are second rate, like it or not! Their only saving grace are two things;
1. Low volumes of Core 2 Duos/Woodcrests. (Same problem AMD had last year with X2/DC Opterons BTW, low volume.)

2. No Cheap Celeron type Core 2s yet. Conroe L isn't expected to go on sale until Q1-07.

These also made most of Intel's other processors second rate as well.

No, I don't Hate AMD. I'll give you the same request you made of me. Link to me saying I hate AMD? Saying AMD is getting spanked just as they spanked Intel Last year is NOT the same as saying, " __ hates AMD". Simply put, if I hated AMD, I'd have not bought a 3500+ Nov-05. Just like you, I went whith AMD. Now that they aren't the best anymore, I went with Intel. If AMD kicks ass next year, I'll go back to AMD on my yearly update cycle. Is that so odd or strange? I'm loyal to performance and my wallet, NOT Intel or AMD. Any of my real friends know that about me.

I'm not worked up at all. I just got through saying Dell is about two years late selling Opterons and that they missed out on selling X2 and FX last year. Please explain to me how in the hell that translates to how you think I'm saying Dell shouldn't sell AMD processors? I'm NOT saying they will not sell, I'am saying they will not change Dell's market share, get it? In fact, Dell will have to loose money to build, support, market and sell AMD products. HP and Gateway will still have an advantage.

 

[Donnie27]

I just completed a procurement of computers for a datacenter project. Requirements were a 1u system, decent dual core processor low on power, 1gb ram, 2x 80gb hdd's(sata/scsi/sas didn't care), IPMI, 24x7 onsite hardware support.

Nothing could beat Dell PowerEdge 1950 with a Xeon 5110, no Sun, HP, IBM, servers could come even close based on either Opteron or Xeon (and trust me I have a million quotes on a dl140 ).

I really cannot wait to see a Dell server line including Opterons and wish it happened a few months ago

Here's why I said 4-way.

http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=xeon5160&page=1

Taking Back The Crown : Intel’s Xeon 5150 and 5160 Processors

Author : Chris Connolly Date : 7/17/2006

AMD’s Opteron 285 processor still sells for $1100-$1200, whereas the new Xeon 5160 sells for $900-$1000, whereas the Xeon 5150 (which still bests the Opteron 285 in most tests) sells for $700-$800. Thus, Intel is winning not only in raw performance, but also price/performance as well.

AMD’s once mighty Opteron platform is now looking not nearly as attractive as it once was. While AMD has done a great job with the Opteron thus far, allowing them to penetrate into markets which none of their previous architectures would let them, it’s now in dire need of an update. Luckily, AMD is well on their way to delivering one, moving the Opteron to a new socket with DDR2 memory support, among other things, along with an eventual move to 65nm technology, which should allow them to compete properly against Intel’s Xeon 5100 series processors in both clock speed and power consumption. Unfortunately, we still don’t have exact dates on when we’ll see these new Opterons, so we can’t forecast whether it’s worth the wait for them. As of right now, Intel simply has a stronger platform at a better price. If AMD wants to compete, they need to drop prices on their current Opteron processors immediately and get their next generation platform out there soon; otherwise Intel will be quick to gain back that workstation market share they’ve lost. It’s going to take some time for IT professionals to trust the Xeon line again, but for the first time in several years, we’re seeing the Xeon line take back its once high-end name and allure. The new Xeon 5160 is quite possibly the fastest chip which Intel has ever produced, and it’s the most impressive Xeon product of the decade. Your move, AMD.

AMD has no advantage on 2 way servers.

Many Geeks are waiting on that next move from AMD. Many Geeks hope AMD kicks ass, only F@b0ys want to see them fail or not kick Intel's ass. Now before folks go trashing out GamePC, they sell AMD and Intel systems.

 

[BigMacAttack]

Yes I did want to to speak back up - that's why I changed my post.
I think your phrase "second rate" is poorly chosen. Second rate indicates poor quality and unreliability, neither of which describes either Intel or AMD products of late. "Second place" is a far better epithet than "second rate."
The reason I get the feeling you don't like AMD so much is because every time I read one of your posts it usually slanted toward the negative in terms of AMD. Its not all in what you say but how you say it as well. Every post I've been reading of yours is usually a slam on AMD with the proviso "but I own a 3500+ AMD too." Big deal, like I said, I own a Dell Celeron laptop but you don't see me roasting Intel and then trying to worm out of it by saying "oh but I own an Intel system too." You can talk out of both sides of your mouth if you want but your preference is easy to see. That's all I was saying in my first post to you - I wasn't being negative in that post at all - just stating my observation that you seem to prefer Intel, but you read it wrong and went off all b**chcakes and freaked out. Well, I've got news for you, your doctor is on the phone - he wants you to come in and get your "knee jerk" treated!

Now, as to Dell losing money on building, supporting and marketing AMD systems - "well duh!" Simple economics. Anytime you bring on a new product you are going to take an initial hit. But to say they'll lose money on AMD? Are you nuts? Since when did you sit in on the Dell boardroom meetings, or in the Dell market analysis meetings or anything like that? How ignorant can you really be? This is bean-counter territory, man. Guys like you kill me when you start spewing wll your FUD around stating "it'll never work, blah, blah, blah." You have absolutely no clue whatsoever as to what you are talking about. This is a corporate decision decided not by some enthusiast fanb** sitting in his gameroom but by a board and a marketing division and a finance division and a manufacturing division who have all done the research needed and supplied their input to make sure it'll work. Yeah, they'll take a hit at first but this is not a short-term deal. They are looking ahead, they have to. If they do it well they'll move in on HP and eMachines and all the rest because they have the Dell name. That name is a well known name in the industry and if their product is a quality product people will want it regardless of what the AMD zealots who "hate Dell" say. The enthusiast base is tiny compared to the mass market and all the Dell hating AMD zealots in the world won't sway people from buying a Dell PC with an AMD cpu inside, "second rate" or not.

 

[zeplar]

Strictly from a tech support view, I hate the move. It means adding another set of chipset, drive controller, etc, drivers to the Ghost image, RIS, and WindowsPE.

 

[NulloModo]

i do respect amd more then intel for this reason: intel has billions upon billions of dollars to throw at producing the best product and for a while they didn't have it. your "2nd rate product" producing company was beating them.beating them in market share and performance.

Just to keep this in perspective, while AMD makes only CPUs, Intel makes CPUs, wireless chips, motherboard chipsets, and graphics chipsets. So, do have to spread their money around a bit, and it isn't a bad thing from a business standpoint, they make very good wired/wireless network solutions, decent integrated graphics chips (as far as any can be called decent), and by far the best motherboard chipsets around, and they rake in a lot of money for each.

 

[beowulf7]

Just to keep this in perspective, while AMD makes only CPUs, Intel makes CPUs, wireless chips, motherboard chipsets, and graphics chipsets. So, do have to spread their money around a bit, and it isn't a bad thing from a business standpoint, they make very good wired/wireless network solutions, decent integrated graphics chips (as far as any can be called decent), and by far the best motherboard chipsets around, and they rake in a lot of money for each.

Don't forget that AMD is in the process of buying ATI. So they'll be getting into the graphics chipsets business, too. Hopefully that won't spread them too thin.

 

[Donnie27]

Yes I did want to to speak back up - that's why I changed my post.
I think your phrase "second rate" is poorly chosen. Second rate indicates poor quality and unreliability, neither of which describes either Intel or AMD products of late. "Second place" is a far better epithet than "second rate."
The reason I get the feeling you don't like AMD so much is because every time I read one of your posts it usually slanted toward the negative in terms of AMD. Its not all in what you say but how you say it as well. Every post I've been reading of yours is usually a slam on AMD with the proviso "but I own a 3500+ AMD too." Big deal, like I said, I own a Dell Celeron laptop but you don't see me roasting Intel and then trying to worm out of it by saying "oh but I own an Intel system too." You can talk out of both sides of your mouth if you want but your preference is easy to see. That's all I was saying in my first post to you - I wasn't being negative in that post at all - just stating my observation that you seem to prefer Intel, but you read it wrong and went off all b**chcakes and freaked out. Well, I've got news for you, your doctor is on the phone - he wants you to come in and get your "knee jerk" treated!

Now, as to Dell losing money on building, supporting and marketing AMD systems - "well duh!" Simple economics. Anytime you bring on a new product you are going to take an initial hit. But to say they'll lose money on AMD? Are you nuts? Since when did you sit in on the Dell boardroom meetings, or in the Dell market analysis meetings or anything like that? How ignorant can you really be? This is bean-counter territory, man. Guys like you kill me when you start spewing wll your FUD around stating "it'll never work, blah, blah, blah." You have absolutely no clue whatsoever as to what you are talking about. This is a corporate decision decided not by some enthusiast fanb** sitting in his gameroom but by a board and a marketing division and a finance division and a manufacturing division who have all done the research needed and supplied their input to make sure it'll work. Yeah, they'll take a hit at first but this is not a short-term deal. They are looking ahead, they have to. If they do it well they'll move in on HP and eMachines and all the rest because they have the Dell name. That name is a well known name in the industry and if their product is a quality product people will want it regardless of what the AMD zealots who "hate Dell" say. The enthusiast base is tiny compared to the mass market and all the Dell hating AMD zealots in the world won't sway people from buying a Dell PC with an AMD cpu inside, "second rate" or not.

Damned right I'm negative compare to most of the biased fluff I read here. More Cache is a Hack? Funny how you calls, AMD leaning folks, called Dell all kinds of Dumbasses and etc.. but now all is well.

Then I can't believe you're ignorant enough to NOT know IT folks buy more Dells than Jane and Joe sixpack. They're not as Dumb as you and your AMD frannies think they are. If they wanted AMD, they'd didn't need Dell to get them. Dell is known for INTEL PRODUCTS and that's what made AMD fans the world over see red before AMD merged with ATI LOL! Example; Folks who buy Hondas don't know what the hell V-Tech is. Yet try to sell them a Honda Car with a Ford engine and see what the hell happens?

Well Duh on your part since you failed to mention anything about Dell's intial investment until I brought up LOL! Talking about trying to worm your way out of something. Somewhere, in some back room, Dell is holding up the AMD card and Intel is telling them to go the play it. I don't know what Dell will do long term, never said I did.

There's no FUD in AMD getting its assed kicked right now just as it wasn't when AMD was kicking Intel's last year. The only difference is, I'll talk about Intel and AMD sucking when it pains you to admit almost anything negative toward's AMD

Again, what was once a great product and was surpassed, so now it is second rate=P That goes for Athlons and P4s. Worm out of something, you're kidding me right? I make no excuses for calling X2 overpriced when it launched, calling AMD greedy bastards and calling them and the rest of AMD line, non Core Intel processors second rate. Because IMHO, they are! They are the second string. Dell has a better chance getting back market with Sempron though.

I'd take my 3500+ over your POS Celeron anyday of the week. Celerons are a poor representation of any frackin Intel has on the market right now. Even in a laptop sheesh! No wonder you prefer AMD desktops. I Prefer C2D because DA-uHH I compared it to my Bud's FX-60 not my single core 3500+. He just bought a C2D as well BTW.

You're nuts because I clearly said Dell wouldn't take back market share just by selling AMD Processors. Do I need to link you back to what I wrote? I said they have nowhere to go but up since last time I checked their AMD Dell Branded Desktops sales figures showed Zero, want a link? If you're going to change what I said, I might be wastin' my time.

Talking out of both sides of my mouth? NO, not being a loyal Fan? Yes. I'll continue to buy both as they fit my need. I'm NOT a fan like you because I prefer what's best when I need or want another PC. I prefer performance over Intel or AMD get it? Oh and I love how AMD Fans resort to person attacks instead of sticking to tech part.

 

[BigMacAttack]

Damned right I'm negative compare to most of the biased fluff I read here. More Cache is a Hack? Funny how you calls, AMD leaning folks, called Dell all kinds of Dumbasses and etc.. but now all is well.

Then I can't believe you're ignorant enough to NOT know IT folks buy more Dells than Jane and Joe sixpack. They're not as Dumb as you and your AMD frannies think they are. If they wanted AMD, they'd didn't need Dell to get them. Dell is known for INTEL PRODUCTS and that's what made AMD fans the world over see red before AMD merged with ATI LOL! Example; Folks who buy Hondas don't know what the hell V-Tech is. Yet try to sell them a Honda Car with a Ford engine and see what the hell happens?

Well Duh on your part since you failed to mention anything about Dell's intial investment until I brought up LOL! Talking about trying to worm your way out of something. Somewhere, in some back room, Dell is holding up the AMD card and Intel is telling them to go the play it. I don't know what Dell will do long term, never said I did.

There's no FUD in AMD getting its assed kicked right now just as it wasn't when AMD was kicking Intel's last year. The only difference is, I'll talk about Intel and AMD sucking when it pains you to admit almost anything negative toward's AMD

Again, what was once a great product and was surpassed, so now it is second rate=P That goes for Athlons and P4s. Worm out of something, you're kidding me right? I make no excuses for calling X2 overpriced when it launched, calling AMD greedy bastards and calling them and the rest of AMD line, non Core Intel processors second rate. Because IMHO, they are! They are the second string. Dell has a better chance getting back market with Sempron though.

I'd take my 3500+ over your POS Celeron anyday of the week. Celerons are a poor representation of any frackin Intel has on the market right now. Even in a laptop sheesh! No wonder you prefer AMD desktops. I Prefer C2D because DA-uHH I compared it to my Bud's FX-60 not my single core 3500+. He just bought a C2D as well BTW.

You're nuts because I clearly said Dell wouldn't take back market share just by selling AMD Processors. Do I need to link you back to what I wrote? I said they have nowhere to go but up since last time I checked their AMD Dell Branded Desktops sales figures showed Zero, want a link? If you're going to change what I said, I might be wastin' my time.

Talking out of both sides of my mouth? NO, not being a loyal Fan? Yes. I'll continue to buy both as they fit my need. I'm NOT a fan like you because I prefer what's best when I need or want another PC. I prefer performance over Intel or AMD get it? Oh and I love how AMD Fans resort to person attacks instead of sticking to tech part.

Once again you rely on fallacy, Donnie - I never said cache is a hack now did I? I think you are confusing me with someone else. And also, need I remind you again, I never said anything negative about Dell, so get your facts straight. You are lumping me in with all these other guys you have been conversing with, which just goes to show your ignorance. Again I challenge you: find a post in which I denigrated Intel or Dell in any way. You can't so the basis of your argument is groundless.
And yes, Dell is known for Intel products, no question. That's why its funny to watch all you Intel Fannies going nuts over them offering AMD products. It really is funny to watch and listen to you guys. It really must stick in your craw!
As for AMD parts being overpriced when they shipped - was Intel's product any different? Intel has reamed us up the rear for how long now? If Intel was so noble why didn't they offer us poor schmoes a price break a long time ago? They've had the ablility to offer price breaks all along by the reasoning I'm hearing from Intel fans. All you Intel boys do is talk about how much money Intel has and how they could buy AMD etc etc. If they had such deep pockets why were they artificially holding prices up for so long? AMD just played along and priced their cpu's according to the market. Simple economics. And since their product was superior people started buying them and no one complained too much because Intel's prices were just as high or higher. So why blame AMD for their pricing? That's lame and you know it. It just shows what I've been saying all along - you are an Intel fanb** plain and simple.
Who started this whole price war anyway? AMD? Nope. Intel, in their desperation to win back market share initiated it. They didn't have to. Conroe is clearly the performance leader right now so they could have held the line on pricing and people would have still bought them, but they didn't. Their strategy smacks a little of desperation to me. You praise Intel for lowering prices and villify AMD for having high prices, yet Inte'ls prices were just as high and usually higher back in the day. Your argument again makes no sense whatsoever and is just the rantings of a flaming fanb**.
My very first post that sent you over the edge was not meant to be anything but an observation. You like Intel, I like AMD. No big deal. It as not my intention to insult you. I'm sorry you took it wrong because you really did and went off. You lumped me into the same category as all the rest of the "Dell hating, AMD loving" fanb**ys around here when nothing could be further from the truth (remember this quote?)

Let's get this straight, sellin' second rate products isn't going to increase sales at all. The very folks expected to buy these things have been conditioned to HATE and NOT trust Dell. Folks like you are the reason Dell is hated like that.

All I said was you like Intel and that you had on blue shaded glasses and this was your response. Sorry you're so touchy. Thin skin must hurt. As you can plainly see, you're the one who went ballistic, not me.
As you can tell from my sig, I'm not a bleeding edge kind of guy. I still like my skt 754 setup because it does what I need it to do - same with my mobile Celeron. I don't need a big e-pe*is by having the biggest, best, latest thing. I'm "thrifty". I'm not disagreeing that Conroe is superior at the moment, never have. But I am going to call you for crapping on this thread when we were all having a pretty good discussion and I'm always going to be here to point out that you are nothing but a raving Intel fan at the moment. I'm sure if AMD comes out with something to beat Conroe you'll be a raving AMD fanb** then. Go for it. Just try to temper your viewpoints with a little more tact and you'll probably be received a lot better and have a decent conversation with people instead of getting into fights. Seems to me you like to fight. You came to the right place for one because I won't back down in this one. You know a lot more about the technology side than I do but in this particular case you don't have a leg to stand on. Like I said, if you don't like Dell's stance on offering AMD products go buy the company and run it your way. They've made their decision so live with it. We'll see how their bottom line looks next year and we can continue our discussion then.

 

[Donnie27]

Once again you rely on fallacy, Donnie - I never said cache is a hack now did I? I think you are confusing me with someone else. And also, need I remind you again, I never said anything negative about Dell, so get your facts straight. You are lumping me in with all these other guys you have been conversing with, which just goes to show your ignorance. Again I challenge you: find a post in which I denigrated Intel or Dell in any way. You can't so the basis of your argument is groundless.
And yes, Dell is known for Intel products, no question. That's why its funny to watch all you Intel Fannies going nuts over them offering AMD products. It really is funny to watch and listen to you guys. It really must stick in your craw!
As for AMD parts being overpriced when they shipped - was Intel's product any different? Intel has reamed us up the rear for how long now? If Intel was so noble why didn't they offer us poor schmoes a price break a long time ago? They've had the ablility to offer price breaks all along by the reasoning I'm hearing from Intel fans. All you Intel boys do is talk about how much money Intel has and how they could buy AMD etc etc. If they had such deep pockets why were they artificially holding prices up for so long? AMD just played along and priced their cpu's according to the market. Simple economics. And since their product was superior people started buying them and no one complained too much because Intel's prices were just as high or higher. So why blame AMD for their pricing? That's lame and you know it. It just shows what I've been saying all along - you are an Intel fanb** plain and simple.
Who started this whole price war anyway? AMD? Nope. Intel, in their desperation to win back market share initiated it. They didn't have to. Conroe is clearly the performance leader right now so they could have held the line on pricing and people would have still bought them, but they didn't. Their strategy smacks a little of desperation to me. You praise Intel for lowering prices and villify AMD for having high prices, yet Inte'ls prices were just as high and usually higher back in the day. Your argument again makes no sense whatsoever and is just the rantings of a flaming fanb**.
My very first post that sent you over the edge was not meant to be anything but an observation. You like Intel, I like AMD. No big deal. It as not my intention to insult you. I'm sorry you took it wrong because you really did and went off. You lumped me into the same category as all the rest of the "Dell hating, AMD loving" fanb**ys around here when nothing could be further from the truth. You're the one who went ballistic, not me. As you can tell from my sig, I'm not a bleeding edge kind of guy. I'm not disagreeing that Conroe is superior at the moment, never have. But I am going to call you for crapping on this thread when we were all having a pretty good discussion and I'm always going to be here to point out that you are nothing but a raving Intel fan at the moment. I'm sure if AMD comes out with something to beat Conroe you'll be a raving AMD fanb** then. Go for it. Just try to temper your viewpoints with a little more tact and you'll probably be received a lot better and have a decent conversation with people instead of getting into fights. Seems to me you like to fight. You came to the right place for one because I won't back down in this one. You know a lot more about the technology side than I do but in this particular case you don't have a leg to stand on. Like I said, if you don't like Dell's stance on offering AMD products go buy the company and run it your way. They've made their decision so live with it. We'll see how their bottom line looks next year and we can continue our discussion then.

Then get your facts straight LOL! Intel fans, just like most AMD Fans don't buy the enemy's same product LINE Desktop vs Desktop for example. I'm not going nutz over Dell's deal with AMD because I don't stand to gain or loose anything from it. I don't own any of their stock. I'm wondering why most of you guys and happy to the point of drooling over it

You call me a lie, ignorant and then ask me to use tact? I'd think you should do the same. I'll respond in kind, I always have. I didn't say you said cache was a Hack. Others on this forum have said it though. Meaning even common sense factual remarks that are negative towards AMD are seen as a flame. So what Intel kicked AMD's this round. I hope AMD returns the favor.

Link to me saying Intel had fair prices? Yup, it's Intel who brought on the price war and now everyone can have the Sweetheart deal they offered Dell. No reason for Dell to stay exclusively Intel uh? See, you can't have it both ways can you? Yes Dell is smart, I know they're smarter than the so called Tech savy AMD folks here who rushed out and bought X2-AM2 LOL! They waited until AMD cut prices to Buy their processors for mass production.

I make no bones about Seeing Intel and or AMD for the Business' they are. Both have been Champs one time and the Chumps next time. I buy their products, not their BS marketing.

You damned right they raped us every frackin chance they had. You see me making excuses for them? No you can't please link me doing so from my many Intel Fanb0y post you claim I have? That's why out of my last 15 computers 8 = AMD and 7 = Intel. I avoided Intel's high prices just as I avoided AMD's X2. Dewd, that's NOT a complex concept. That margin was 9 to 6 before my C2D.

Look, I don't give a flip what you me, call me Paul Otellini if you like. To an AMD f@n, everyone looks like an Intel so maybe you right about me.

 

[(cf)Eclipse]

Just to keep this in perspective, while AMD makes only CPUs, Intel makes CPUs, wireless chips, motherboard chipsets, and graphics chipsets.

umm, funny you say that. just cpus eh? what about their flash devision?
http://www.spansion.com/amd/

or the networking stuff?
http://www.amd.com/us-en/ConnectivitySolutions/ProductInformation/0,,50_2330_6629,00.html

there's other stuff too..

Look, I don't give a flip what you call me Paul Otellini if you like. To an AMD f@n, everyone looks like and Intel so maybe you right about me.

donnie, you're just making yourself look bad, stop it

 

[Donnie27]

All I said was you like Intel and that you had on blue shaded glasses and this was your response. Sorry you're so touchy. Thin skin must hurt. As you can plainly see, you're the one who went ballistic, not me.

As you can tell from my sig, I'm not a bleeding edge kind of guy. I still like my skt 754 setup because it does what I need it to do - same with my mobile Celeron. I don't need a big e-pe*is by having the biggest, best, latest thing. I'm "thrifty". I'm not disagreeing that Conroe is superior at the moment, never have. But I am going to call you for crapping on this thread when we were all having a pretty good discussion and I'm always going to be here to point out that you are nothing but a raving Intel fan at the moment. I'm sure if AMD comes out with something to beat Conroe you'll be a raving AMD fanb** then. Go for it. Just try to temper your viewpoints with a little more tact and you'll probably be received a lot better and have a decent conversation with people instead of getting into fights. Seems to me you like to fight. You came to the right place for one because I won't back down in this one. You know a lot more about the technology side than I do but in this particular case you don't have a leg to stand on. Like I said, if you don't like Dell's stance on offering AMD products go buy the company and run it your way. They've made their decision so live with it. We'll see how their bottom line looks next year and we can continue our discussion then.

I admitted I was wearing Blue tinted glasses. Just as I was wearing Green ones when I bought my 3500+. Again, what part of that do you not understand? I have C2D and if K8L is affordable and kicks ass, I take off my Blue tinted glasses and put the green ones back on. What, you still don't get it? If not, WHY?

This line-->But I am going to call you for crapping on this thread when we were all having a pretty good discussion and I'm always going to be here to point out that you are nothing but a raving Intel fan at the moment.

Dell and AMD is the title of this thread. Not, show your love for AMD by now being nice to Dell after trashing them out for years. Is there a hidden title somewhere I missed? I thought it was a good move to do 4-way Opterons and Cheap Simprons. 1 & 2-Way are not smart, Performance Desktops and Workstation Ditto!

I don't expect you to back down, ask me if I thought you would? AMD has a second rate processor because it comes in second place. It rated second because it comes in second LOL! Doesn't take balls to say that, it takes common sense.

 

[Donnie27]

umm, funny you say that. just cpus eh? what about their flash devision?
http://www.spansion.com/amd/

or the networking stuff?
http://www.amd.com/us-en/ConnectivitySolutions/ProductInformation/0,,50_2330_6629,00.html

there's other stuff too..

donnie, you're just making yourself look bad, stop it

And this guy isn't?

 

[Donnie27]

To bad this was brushed over.

Many Geeks are waiting on that next move from AMD. Many Geeks hope AMD kicks ass, only F@b0ys want to see them fail or not kick Intel's ass.

.

Peace out for now!

 

[BigMacAttack]

Dell and AMD is the title of this thread. Not, show your love for AMD by now being nice to Dell after trashing them out for years.

Again I ask you to prove that I ever trashed Dell. Again you lump me in with those who do. How can you justify this? I have never trashed Dell in any way, shape or form. Yes, I prefer AMD in my market segment because they give me the best bang for the buck at my price point. So in reality we are not so different. I spent $305 on a 3400+ Clawhammer a little over 2 yrs ago because it was a killer chip for the price. Then about 6 months later I grabbed an OEM 3700+ Clawhammer for $275 because it was a good deal for the performance. Same with my 3000+, 3200+ and 3400+ skt 754 Venices. I have no need for the latest greatest, truest Blueist, meanest Greenest top of the line processor. I get the most I can for the least outlay of $$$ for my current architecture because it makes the most sense to me at this point in time. I have no need to upgrade right now so I can ride out the hysteria surrounding all the latest releases. To all who can afford to upgrade all the time I say "more power to you." Me, I'll keep my money firmly in the bank and make interest on it until such time as I have the need to upgrade. Be it AMD or Intel.
Okay - you can call "second place" "second rate" if you want. My perception is different than yours when it comes to the term "second rate". As I said before, "second rate" to me is unreliable garbage and I don't see AMD or Intel making unreliable equipment. So be it.
One thing I think we can agree on from all this if I read your posts correctly is that Dell should have done this at least a year ago when the opportunity was there to make more money on AMD. I'm sure they would have if they could have but their relationship with Intel at the time made it less profitable, no doubt. Now that their relationship with Intel has changed (as it has been reported *grain of salt*) it must make more business sense now.
Again, I will go on record and sincerely apologize for the "blue tinted glasses" remark. I didn't mean it in a derogatory manner and I'm sorry it upset you. I didn't realize it would stir you up so much. I should have either left that out or put a smiley after it.
I'll tell you what - I'll be the first to extend the hand of truce and we can agree to disagree on this issue. I think Dell will make money with this move. It will be good for them and the mass market in the long run IMO. If you feel differently, well all I can say is we'll see in a year or so.
So what do you say, Donnie? Truce or no? I'll leave the ball in your court.

 

[Donnie27]

Again I ask you to prove that I ever trashed Dell. Again you lump me in with those who do. How can you justify this? I have never trashed Dell in any way, shape or form. Yes, I prefer AMD in my market segment because they give me the best bang for the buck at my price point. So in reality we are not so different. I spent $305 on a 3400+ Clawhammer a little over 2 yrs ago because it was a killer chip for the price. Then about 6 months later I grabbed an OEM 3700+ Clawhammer for $275 because it was a good deal for the performance. Same with my 3000+, 3200+ and 3400+ skt 754 Venices. I have no need for the latest greatest, truest Blueist, meanest Greenest top of the line processor. I get the most I can for the least outlay of $$$ for my current architecture because it makes the most sense to me at this point in time. I have no need to upgrade right now so I can ride out the hysteria surrounding all the latest releases. To all who can afford to upgrade all the time I say "more power to you." Me, I'll keep my money firmly in the bank and make interest on it until such time as I have the need to upgrade. Be it AMD or Intel.
Okay - you can call "second place" "second rate" if you want. My perception is different than yours when it comes to the term "second rate". As I said before, "second rate" to me is unreliable garbage and I don't see AMD or Intel making unreliable equipment. So be it.
One thing I think we can agree on from all this if I read your posts correctly is that Dell should have done this at least a year ago when the opportunity was there to make more money on AMD. I'm sure they would have if they could have but their relationship with Intel at the time made it less profitable, no doubt. Now that their relationship with Intel has changed (as it has been reported *grain of salt*) it must make more business sense now.
Again, I will go on record and sincerely apologize for the "blue tinted glasses" remark. I didn't mean it in a derogatory manner and I'm sorry it upset you. I didn't realize it would stir you up so much. I should have either left that out or put a smiley after it.
I'll tell you what - I'll be the first to extend the hand of truce and we can agree to disagree on this issue. I think Dell will make money with this move. It will be good for them and the mass market in the long run IMO. If you feel differently, well all I can say is we'll see in a year or so.
So what do you say, Donnie? Truce or no? I'll leave the ball in your court.

Same from me and I accept!

 

[(cf)Eclipse]

And this guy isn't?

everyone is actually, to varying amounts. i figured you would be the bigger guy and tone it down, or my words would inspire others to do so.

seems like it worked i guess

 

[Donnie27]

everyone is actually, to varying amounts. i figured you would be the bigger guy and tone it down, or my words would inspire others to do so.

seems like it worked i guess

Yup!

 

[BigMacAttack]

Yeah - its always good to have someone come along and remind everyone that we all see things from a different perspective. Peace is better than war.

 

[beowulf7]

Let's all have a big group hug here.

Oh yeah, another example of Dell and AMD: I'm running an AMD Athlon 3200+ Venice CPU. But my monitor is a Dell (2405FPW). Talk about an eerie harbinger.

 

[BigMacAttack]

ROFL - well a "virtual" handshake is cool by me. There's enough flaming in the [H] forums to last a lifetime anyway - really no sense in adding to it IMO. Life's too short once you stop and think about it. Sometimes we all just need to step back and take a deep breath and realize its not a life and death deal. Meh its just like comparing old muscle cars - some like Fomoco, some like GM - me I like Mopars. They all work and they all look good. Its all up to one's point of view and experience. No sense losing sleep over it.

BTW - I'll bet your computer is very confused!

 

[beowulf7]

ROFL - well a "virtual" handshake is cool by me. There's enough flaming in the [H] forums to last a lifetime anyway - really no sense in adding to it IMO. Life's too short once you stop and think about it. Sometimes we all just need to step back and take a deep breath and realize its not a life and death deal. Meh its just like comparing old muscle cars - some like Fomoco, some like GM - me I like Mopars. They all work and they all look good. Its all up to one's point of view and experience. No sense losing sleep over it.

BTW - I'll bet your computer is very confused!

It does keep for a lively debate. Otherwise, we'd read the same rehashed crap we can find on any tech site, such as CNET, etc. or even CNN for that matter. A spiritied dialogue keeps things interesting, as long as it doesn't break down to "your momma is so ..."

My computer may be confused, but it's doing a hell of a lot better than the Dell P2-450 it replaced. Oh yeah, my speakers are also from Dell. Technically, they're Logitech (Z-5500), but I bought them from Dell, so does that tip my computer more toward Dell than AMD?

 

[BigMacAttack]

Frankenputer

 

[stiltner]

I'd buy a XPS system powered by AMD if given the chance w/o a doubt, and apparently I'll get that chance. So yeah, the combination of the two, is great for everyone IMO. It puts pressure back on Intel to keep on their toes (good for consumer) and it makes AMD more wide open to market advances (good for consumer) and it gives Dell more of a chance to appeal to more people (good for Dell and the consumer IMO)

All my Dell systems are what they're known for, good enough, and stable. If they can make em as they traditionally do with the XPS, stable AND pretty damn fast. I'm all in.

It never hurts to have fat amounts of credit with Dell either, that kinda makes the "wish list" a tad more easy to float.

 

[beowulf7]

Frankenputer

LOL ... it's alive!

 

[Donnie27]

It does keep for a lively debate. Otherwise, we'd read the same rehashed crap we can find on any tech site, such as CNET, etc. or even CNN for that matter. A spiritied dialogue keeps things interesting, as long as it doesn't break down to "your momma is so ..."

My computer may be confused, but it's doing a hell of a lot better than the Dell P2-450 it replaced. Oh yeah, my speakers are also from Dell. Technically, they're Logitech (Z-5500), but I bought them from Dell, so does that tip my computer more toward Dell than AMD?

It does make for good debate when the name calling and etc.. is left out. It seems that many here like to Censor anything negative towards AMD and Positive towards Intel. Like how in the hell can you not bring up Intel/Dell because without Intel, there would be no Dell. I'd love to hear even Mike Dell and or etc.. say otherwise.

4U]

I'd buy a XPS system powered by AMD if given the chance w/o a doubt, and apparently I'll get that chance. So yeah, the combination of the two, is great for everyone IMO. It puts pressure back on Intel to keep on their toes (good for consumer) and it makes AMD more wide open to market advances (good for consumer) and it gives Dell more of a chance to appeal to more people (good for Dell and the consumer IMO)

All my Dell systems are what they're known for, good enough, and stable. If they can make em as they traditionally do with the XPS, stable AND pretty damn fast. I'm all in.

It never hurts to have fat amounts of credit with Dell either, that kinda makes the "wish list" a tad more easy to float.

Actually bad for Dell if it is good for the consumer. Dell can't use AMD as a threat to get sweetheart deals. Dell has no Advantage over HP who's always bought AMD processors and couldn't buy Intel processors at Dell's price points. This is good for HP and other OEMs who use AMD. Why? Dell's computers use to be cheaper than HP because not only Dells cheaper processors but Co-Branding to split the Marketing Costs. No more deals mean Dell's prices will increase. AMD X2s are still too expensive for the most part for Dell to change the direction they are headed, being down. AMD has NOTHING to compete pricewise with E6400, E6600 or E6700. Been to pricewatch lately?

Dell's AMD systems less than Quad Socket Servers will be slower than not only Conroe/Allendale but Woodcrest, Memrom, Yonah and Dothan as well. I mean Dothan vs Sempron, you kidding me?

 

[Rocco123]

AMD X2s are expensive? I could have swore that I just bought a x2 4200 for around $170...... Also keep in mind that they are selling for quite a bit cheaper in the OEM world, and they will only get cheaper.

AMD has nothing to compete pricewise with core2? Any of the X2s can compare pricewise, performance aside.

 

[BigMacAttack]

Quite correct. Not everyone is in the market for a top of the line system. The bread and butter for system builders is in the middle of the road systems anyway. Just like cars. Not everyone needs a Viper. Oh, they might want one but unfortunately the budget isn't there, so they "settle" for a Charger with a V-6. Other people have no use at all for the top of the line stuff so they buy what they need and what fits the budget. It's called "real world reality." No one is questioning whether or not a Viper will outrun a V-6 Charger - its a given. But there is a thing called "practicality" that dictates what consumers can and will buy. As I said - not everyone is in the market for the top of the line product. They like Dodge so they buy Dodge. Yeah - its got a Mitsubishi engine and drive train but the badge says "Dodge" and the happy customer drives it off the lot.
Its a similar situation with computers. My dad knows I know computers, yet he didn't consult me when he bought his 3100+ Sempron. He just went on down to Best Buy, looked them all over and bought what suited him. Some people will do that with Dell, too. In fact, most probably will. They want a Dell and don't need the hottest/latest thing so they'll grab what they can afford. They won't care all that much what's under the hood as long as it performs the tasks they are interested in. As for the rest of us who are in the know, we'll be good bit more discriminating and get the absolute best bang for the buck. Odds are, if the budget is there, it will be a Conroe system with as many bells and whistles as possible. For others who would rather have an AMD cpu and the Dell name they'll go that route. The real money is in the mass market, not the enthusiast market anyway. The real question is "what are mom and dad going to be able to afford to buy little Jimmy for school?" It may or may not be a top of the line Conroe. It all comes down to the deal. Let's see what Dell has to offer and at what price point before we go off and bury them. Saying they can't compete without knowing their business plan and seeing their pricing is just plain speculation and opinion and has no basis in fact whatsoever.
(See? No name calling )
And BTW

Like how in the hell can you not bring up Intel/Dell

last time I checked the thread name was "Dell and AMD" - not Intel/Dell. We all know about Intel and Dell. What we all started out talking about was Dell and AMD. Too bad we strayed off-topic.

 

[arcturus]

Good article in today's Wall Street Journal ... front page, about Dell's mistakes and the spanking they're taking by HP notably.

 

[BigMacAttack]

One of Dell's problems is that they aren't as accessible as HP. HP is in the storefronts and is readily available. They are going to the people.
Dell on the other hand isn't in the storefronts so the people have to come to them. This makes availability limited. It might be wise for Dell to explore the possibility of making their product more available. Just a thought.

 

[Donnie27]

AMD X2s are expensive? I could have swore that I just bought a x2 4200 for around $170...... Also keep in mind that they are selling for quite a bit cheaper in the OEM world, and they will only get cheaper.

AMD has nothing to compete pricewise with core2? Any of the X2s can compare pricewise, performance aside.

Please note, I talked about Launched prices and prices right up to Conroe/Allendale's Launched. See the AM2-X2 thread here for example. Think most of those guys paid $170 for a 4200+?

I could have sworen I've not seen them for less the $180. Even for $170, $20 more dollars gets the E6300 that kicks th crap out of it. Keep in mind the OEM E6300's can be had for cheaper than retail after market prices are well, so? Two sites listed E6300 for $183 for OEM. Sorry, no contest there, overclocked or not. E6300 is closer to 4400+.

Performance aside is what makes $170 too much.

 

[Donnie27]

last time I checked the thread name was "Dell and AMD" - not Intel/Dell. We all know about Intel and Dell. What we all started out talking about was Dell and AMD. Too bad we strayed off-topic.

Last time I checked, soon as you click on Dell.com, the first thing you see is Intel=P It'd stayed on topic if Intel NOT mentioned negatively. Then no one has to defend Intel. It'd stayed on topic if anti Intel crap is not mentioned. It is always funny how negative stuff about Intel is not off topic but positive is, ummm?

 

[Donnie27]

Good article in today's Wall Street Journal ... front page, about Dell's mistakes and the spanking they're taking by HP notably.

That was a point I was trying to make. Folks who buy AMD based business desktops buy HP AMD rigs. They don't need or have a reason to switch to Dell. New buyers that make up John and Jane new user are far and few in between. It ain't that many of them.

 

[Donnie27]

Quite correct. Not everyone is in the market for a top of the line system. The bread and butter for system builders is in the middle of the road systems anyway. Just like cars. Not everyone needs a Viper. Oh, they might want one but unfortunately the budget isn't there, so they "settle" for a Charger with a V-6. Other people have no use at all for the top of the line stuff so they buy what they need and what fits the budget. It's called "real world reality." No one is questioning whether or not a Viper will outrun a V-6 Charger - its a given. But there is a thing called "practicality" that dictates what consumers can and will buy. As I said - not everyone is in the market for the top of the line product. They like Dodge so they buy Dodge. Yeah - its got a Mitsubishi engine and drive train but the badge says "Dodge" and the happy customer drives it off the lot.
Its a similar situation with computers. My dad knows I know computers, yet he didn't consult me when he bought his 3100+ Sempron. He just went on down to Best Buy, looked them all over and bought what suited him. Some people will do that with Dell, too. In fact, most probably will. They want a Dell and don't need the hottest/latest thing so they'll grab what they can afford. They won't care all that much what's under the hood as long as it performs the tasks they are interested in. As for the rest of us who are in the know, we'll be good bit more discriminating and get the absolute best bang for the buck. Odds are, if the budget is there, it will be a Conroe system with as many bells and whistles as possible. For others who would rather have an AMD cpu and the Dell name they'll go that route. The real money is in the mass market, not the enthusiast market anyway. The real question is "what are mom and dad going to be able to afford to buy little Jimmy for school?" It may or may not be a top of the line Conroe. It all comes down to the deal. Let's see what Dell has to offer and at what price point before we go off and bury them. Saying they can't compete without knowing their business plan and seeing their pricing is just plain speculation and opinion and has no basis in fact whatsoever.
(See? No name calling )
And BTW
last time I checked the thread name was "Dell and AMD" - not Intel/Dell. We all know about Intel and Dell. What we all started out talking about was Dell and AMD. Too bad we strayed off-topic.

Your dodge example is bad, why? There is NO Mitsubishi "Sticker" on that Dodge. As there is no Dodge on rebadged Misubishi or the Ford made B2000, Chevy made Humbre and etc..

AMD has too big of an Ego to not have the AMD sticker displayed right on the front of the case or in any Ad on Dells site. You're trying to say Dell will hide or downplay the fact that it AMD inside and not Intel? I'd like to think you know better than the say something like that.

Dell's mass sales are not to Joe and Jenny Six pack BTW! If AMD has to depend on indifferent buyers, they're screwed.

Now see, NOT off Topic!

 

[beowulf7]

Good article in today's Wall Street Journal ... front page, about Dell's mistakes and the spanking they're taking by HP notably.

That's great. Mark Hurd has been a savior for H-P. However, Fiorina, as much as she was justifiably criticized for poor execution, had one hell of a vision when she had H-P acquire Compaq.

I wonder if Dell will look for a partner, such as Lenovo, Gateway, etc. But in their case, it might not make sense since Dell thrives on being lean (relatively speaking).

 

[tsuehpsyde]

Last time I checked, soon as you click on Dell.com, the first thing you see is Intel=P

Nope, first thing I see is a set of printers.

 

[Rocco123]

Please note, I talked about Launched prices and prices right up to Conroe/Allendale's Launched. See the AM2-X2 thread here for example. Think most of those guys paid $170 for a 4200+?

I could have sworen I've not seen them for less the $180. Even for $170, $20 more dollars gets the E6300 that kicks th crap out of it. Keep in mind the OEM E6300's can be had for cheaper than retail after market prices are well, so? Two sites listed E6300 for $183 for OEM. Sorry, no contest there, overclocked or not. E6300 is closer to 4400+.

Performance aside is what makes $170 too much.

Just to remind you, you said PRICEWISE. You said nothing about performance, and now it's all about performance. You said "There is not an X2 that can compare to conroe pricewise", and the x2 4200 compares just dandy to a 6300. You can say what you want about performance aside from that arguement, but don't start digressing from the point after you've been proven wrong.

I won't go as far as to say a 6300 will "kick the crap" out of a 4200. I have two PCs sitting beside me at the moment. An X2 4200 an a C2 6300 (believe it or not). Great example, isn't it. Anyway, by no means is my computer experience being transformed from night to day. Conroe is maybe, maybe a little faster at games. OS/Games/Apps run at comperable speeds.

Running SuperPi? Wow, the C2 wipes the floor. But ask me how much I sit and watch SuperPi or Winstone benchmarks.

 

[dajet24]

this is true the 6300 6400 are faster overall perhaps but its like going 200mph and then going 203mph its not somthing you notice without a radar.

this is when comparing said x2 3800 4200 to 6300 6400 x2 4800 5000 t0 6500 6600 etc

its agreed intel is the overall fastest but its not the same noticable jump as say the AMD 64 3200 was to the then avail P 4 2.8ghz 3 or 3.2 ghz

unless your running PI benchmarks all day or purposly running 5 virus scans in the background while playing Oblivion.

 

[ToastMaster]

Your dodge example is bad, why? There is NO Mitsubishi "Sticker" on that Dodge. As there is no Dodge on rebadged Misubishi or the Ford made B2000, Chevy made Humbre and etc..

AMD has too big of an Ego to not have the AMD sticker displayed right on the front of the case or in any Ad on Dells site. You're trying to say Dell will hide or downplay the fact that it AMD inside and not Intel? I'd like to think you know better than the say something like that.

Dell's mass sales are not to Joe and Jenny Six pack BTW! If AMD has to depend on indifferent buyers, they're screwed.

Now see, NOT off Topic!

Bash AMD still at every step, eh Donnie?

So because AMD would simply want the Athlon insignia located on the computer, or in a Dell ad, obviously means they have "too big of an ego"? So why aren't you bashing Intel for having "too big of an ego", considering they've been doing the same thing for over a decade. Infact, who is it that went out and licensed the Blue Man Group to appear in commercials and web ads? Exactly. Sorry Donnie, but corporate desire isn't a one way, AMD-only street.

Dell won't care if it's an AMD system or Intel system, unless it impacts sales.

And while Dell does sell a huge bulk of computers to corporations, don't underestimate their sales to new users or people who are upgrading. Millions of computers are sold each year to those who already have a computer, but one that is several years old. Those people are looking for a machine that can run faster, the newest programs they want to use, but something that is cheap and reliable. Dell can generally meet that for them with their introductory systems. I honestly think you don't quite understand the computer market. :/