DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

[cowsgomoo2]

I've had this for one week. Should the status have changed by now? Singapore here.

 

[SSuk]

I've had this for one week. Should the status have changed by now? Singapore here.

That means, that Dan printed your shipment information (label with address) along with others and he is in process of marking the packages (cases) with that DHL printed shipment information (label).
When he has enough packages prepared and labelled, DHL will pick them up at once.

I had it the same. It can take up to 14 days, but automatic system sent this tracking info message right-away when he printed your label (because it is connected with your email address obviously).

 

[jjsyht]

Dan,
Is there a phone number of the shipping address? I ask because DHL usually calls me before delivering a package.

 

[repentsinner]

Thanks for the pictures. Don't forget to put a bit of electrical tape onto the PCH to correct the emissivity (read for short explanation and good post by FLIR on how to correct it).


About the power design of this motherboard. It is certainly not a usual layout and I don't yet fully understand how exactly it works (I don't see enough MOSFETs for example). I am however pretty sure it is properly cooled and doesn't need a heatsink as long as there is some airflow and the case temperature isn't too high.

usual layout:
View attachment 17729

Asus STRIX Z270I:
View attachment 17727 View attachment 17728

Finally had a minute to take some measurements. Ambient temperature is ~22°C. Prime95 blend has been running for about 15 minutes before measuring. To recap HW, this is a z270i with 7700k on stock BIOS config, and for CPU cooling I'm still on L9i with NF-B9 redux. LP53 and ITX30 arrived yesterday, but that'll be a project for another day..

FLIR0030 and FLIR0031 are images of the VRMs. I didn't try to get electrical tape down in there, I assume the emissivity of an epoxy package is pretty OK. Looks like 70-80°C. Any idea what's expected for these parts? I neglected to measure the VRMs of my previous Gigabyte h170n with a 6600, but those seemed to run happily with no stock heatsinks of any sort.

FLIR0035 is an image of the PCH and the bottom half of the M.2 heatsink contraption. I'm not sure if the bead blasting and anodization affects emissivity, but with or without electrical tape the reading is within 1°C of each other. I'll see if I can grab some kapton tape from work, I didn't want to leave the electrical tape on too long as the adhesive turns into such a mess at any appreciable temperature. I did let it warm up for a minute and watched it with the camera and the temp didn't continue to rise any after it stabilized at ~52°C. I'm guessing with such low thermal mass of the tape that is in fact the temperature of the heatsink.

For now I've installed the M.2 card in the bottom slot. Once the A4 arrives and I have a riser cable to play with, I can flip the board over and measure the M.2 on both sides. I'm not sure how hot it runs under load or where thermal throttling kicks in, but top-side mounting does seem like it's going to be concentrating a lot of heat in one area with only a heat spreader to deal with it all. Maybe there's enough airflow coming off the CPU cooler to keep it managed..

 

[repentsinner]

And unrelated to all of the thermal nonsense, I discovered that a quarter-wave 2.4GHz RP-SMA works fine to handle Bluetooth, and its small stature should better match the A4 compared to the remote-mount monstrosities that the motherboards are shipping with these days If you don't need wireless, you only need to connect an antenna to the top port on the z270i (or the right-hand port, when looking from the rear, of the h270n).

http://www.digikey.com/short/32tj5h

 

[Lobster Mobster]

Just thought I'd share some preliminary data on the IS-40V3 testing with the Noctua A9x14 fan on an open bench (well, I covered half of it with a cardboard box).

With my 7600K delided, I can overclock it to 4.6 ghz at 1.175 volts (1.675 with vdroop) and maintain an average core temperature of 76 degrees C during Asus Realbench testing (which also includes the iGPU on the chip). The cores can spike up to 82 degrees C, but it doesn't happen very often nor does it stay there for very long. I have the fan spinning from around 1400-1600 rpm, only kicking to 2500 rpm if the core temperature reaches 90 degrees C. For all intents and purposes it's quiet.

I think this is a pretty decent result, but I'll have to wait for the case to arrive before I can give more data.

 

[Philfreeze]

FLIR0030 and FLIR0031 are images of the VRMs. I didn't try to get electrical tape down in there, I assume the emissivity of an epoxy package is pretty OK. Looks like 70-80°C. Any idea what's expected for these parts? I neglected to measure the VRMs of my previous Gigabyte h170n with a 6600, but those seemed to run happily with no stock heatsinks of any sort.

Jup, black epoxy resin has an emissivity factor somewhere around 0.95 which is good. The maximum (safe) case temperature for these MOSFETs is probably around 120°C. However, I would recommend keeping it bellow 100°C because above that you can slowly damage the PCB (it will still work but It can start to look really nasty).

And unrelated to all of the thermal nonsense, I discovered that a quarter-wave 2.4GHz RP-SMA works fine to handle Bluetooth, and its small stature should better match the A4 compared to the remote-mount monstrosities that the motherboards are shipping with these days If you don't need wireless, you only need to connect an antenna to the top port on the z270i (or the right-hand port, when looking from the rear, of the h270n).
http://www.digikey.com/short/32tj5h

It looks so tiny xD

 

[Henrik_s-a]

Try to have a fan blowing air towards it. If the psu fan stops with the fan directing airflow, you know that the problem is the temperature and not the load, which would mean that the psu is not defective.

All in all, I am convinced this is a design choice that can't be fixed. The psu needs to be thermally-protected, and that only happens if the fan is temperature-controlled. It happend with a Silverstone unit, If I'm not mistaken, that it was only load-controlled and thus would fail (it would trip) in computers with poor or no airflow.

I tried your suggestion and the fan turns off. It even turns off if I blow air from my mouth gently towards it (but starts again soon after). I must have a heat-sensitive unit then, where everything works, but the fan is kind of aggressive.

My idea was to have a semi-passive system, so I guess I have to look at the SF450 instead as it may not get as warm.

 

[darksable]

And unrelated to all of the thermal nonsense, I discovered that a quarter-wave 2.4GHz RP-SMA works fine to handle Bluetooth, and its small stature should better match the A4 compared to the remote-mount monstrosities that the motherboards are shipping with these days If you don't need wireless, you only need to connect an antenna to the top port on the z270i (or the right-hand port, when looking from the rear, of the h270n).

http://www.digikey.com/short/32tj5h

Those are kind of adorable.

However, I have to say, I still love my 8 inch monstrosities - sticking up from the back of my Raven RVZ01, it gets me a lot of comments along the lines of, "what is that?"

Much more preferable to, "oh, is that an xbox?"

 

[Ca11idus]

AMD NDA lifts tomorrow. There are some really nice perf numbers in the chinese forums indicating that it should be a very competitive cpu. Thursday!!! I need my case!

 

[cowsgomoo2]

However, I have to say, I still love my 8 inch monstrosities - sticking up from the back of my Raven RVZ01, it gets me a lot of comments along the lines of, "what is that?"
"

According to my limited experiments with different length replacement antennas for my motherboard, as far as wifi reception goes,

Spoiler

size matters.

 

[Calrez]

http://i.imgur.com/j13RoJ8.jpg
dios mio

 

[Ca11idus]

http://i.imgur.com/j13RoJ8.jpg
dios mio

Yup, I don't think the performance is there for me to upgrade from my 5820k. Games for the most part don't get insanely better performance. Granted, you will probably get loads better performance from an overclocked R7 1700 while still keeping it cooler than a 5820k. I'm just glad no itx boards will be released soon because I don't think I could keep myself from going red.

 

[krcm0209]

Pretty sure I just received a used L9i from Noctua on Amazon even though it was sold as new. Wonder if it belonged to one of you originally. Anyway pretty frustrated about having to go through getting it exchanged.

 

[jtcera]

And unrelated to all of the thermal nonsense, I discovered that a quarter-wave 2.4GHz RP-SMA works fine to handle Bluetooth, and its small stature should better match the A4 compared to the remote-mount monstrosities that the motherboards are shipping with these days If you don't need wireless, you only need to connect an antenna to the top port on the z270i (or the right-hand port, when looking from the rear, of the h270n).

http://www.digikey.com/short/32tj5h

Is there one this size for wireless AC? I'm ordering one for bluetooth - thanks.

If you use two of the ones you linked to, would you get wifi 2.4 as well? That'd be fine actually.

 

[dominathan]

Going through different antenna on digikey... I wonder how much of a faraday-cage-effect the case has? I'm thinking about some of these internal antenna... Or maybe a block or stub we can stick in the hole above the graphics card mount?
(Digikey... your frequency selector is absolutely the worst imaginable. Feel free to continue never improving your site)

 

[Deleted member 222586]

I tried your suggestion and the fan turns off. It even turns off if I blow air from my mouth gently towards it (but starts again soon after). I must have a heat-sensitive unit then, where everything works, but the fan is kind of aggressive.

My idea was to have a semi-passive system, so I guess I have to look at the SF450 instead as it may not get as warm.

What makes you think that the SF450 won't get as warm? They will dissipate the same heat, and they will absorb the same heat from the same system. They should show the same behaviour.

 

[Philfreeze]

Going through different antenna on digikey... I wonder how much of a faraday-cage-effect the case has? I'm thinking about some of these internal antenna... Or maybe a block or stub we can stick in the hole above the graphics card mount?
(Digikey... your frequency selector is absolutely the worst imaginable. Feel free to continue never improving your site)

I personally think Digikey has one of the best param search engines. Especially because for integrated circuits they list the package name given by the manufacturer and the closest standard package. This makes is much easier to search for a specific package.

 

[Woxys]

dondan, what's the correct positioning of the 3M raiser cable, on the back of the GPU or behind the motherboard? Mine did come (from the box/factory) on the motherboard side, so i mounted it over the raiser but now i'm actually worried about not puncturing it with the C7 mounting screws because on the other peoples photos they have the raiser mounted on the GPU side. What should i do?
Do you guys have some thoughts?

 

[Deleted member 288494]

dondan, what's the correct positioning of the 3M raiser cable, on the back of the GPU or behind the motherboard? Mine did come (from the box/factory) on the motherboard side, so i mounted it over the raiser but now i'm actually worried about not puncturing it with the C7 mounting screws because on the other peoples photos they have the raiser mounted on the GPU side. What should i do?
Do you guys have some thoughts?

You do sqeeuze the riser between the mounting screws with the C7 so I just mounted it behind the GPU. Fits fine even with a backplate.

 

[dondan]

It dorsn't matter it will work in both position.

 

[repentsinner]

Is there one this size for wireless AC? I'm ordering one for bluetooth - thanks.

If you use two of the ones you linked to, would you get wifi 2.4 as well? That'd be fine actually.

I can do some testing with this, but I'd imagine it should be fine. They make 1/2 and full wave (and many others, RF is an endlessly deep rabbit hole) as well. My wireless router currently sits below the PC and is connected via cable anyway, so I only need the antenna for Bluetooth keyboard and mouse.

jtcera if you or someone else wants to take up some range/power testing, I'll send out a set of 1/4, 1/2, and full wave in exchange for your thoroughly conducted review, comparing and contrasting with the stock antennas that come with the boards

Going through different antenna on digikey... I wonder how much of a faraday-cage-effect the case has? I'm thinking about some of these internal antenna... Or maybe a block or stub we can stick in the hole above the graphics card mount?
(Digikey... your frequency selector is absolutely the worst imaginable. Feel free to continue never improving your site)

Which internal antennas are you referring to? Most boards with integrated wireless have connectors on the IO panel, no? You can certainly run a feedline from the IPEX connector or whatever on the wireless card to an RP-SMA on the chassis, like the stock setup on the h170n.

 

[ManaNeko]

ID Cooling also makes the IS-50, which has one more heatpipe, should be able to fit a thin 92mm or 120mm fan under the fins, and will comfortably be <48mm high with an underslung fan. The bad news is that availability is similar to the IS-40 (eBay or Aliexpress) and I can't find any reviews.

/watch?v=JZPRe81cLmc

I was looking at this to find an original solution. This reviewer says it's really bad.

 

[dominathan]

I can do some testing with this, but I'd imagine it should be fine. They make 1/2 and full wave (and many others, RF is an endlessly deep rabbit hole) as well. My wireless router currently sits below the PC and is connected via cable anyway, so I only need the antenna for Bluetooth keyboard and mouse.

jtcera if you or someone else wants to take up some range/power testing, I'll send out a set of 1/4, 1/2, and full wave in exchange for your thoroughly conducted review, comparing and contrasting with the stock antennas that come with the boards



Which internal antennas are you referring to? Most boards with integrated wireless have connectors on the IO panel, no? You can certainly run a feedline from the IPEX connector or whatever on the wireless card to an RP-SMA on the chassis, like the stock setup on the h170n.

The little tiny ones will only do 2.4Ghz wifi, so no AC.

I'm referring to ones like these, so I don't have to have any antenna hanging out
https://www.digikey.com/product-det...y-amp-connectors/2118060-1/A107430-ND/3915263
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/taoglas-limited/FXP830.24.0100B/931-1318-ND/4849884
https://www.digikey.com/product-det...y-amp-connectors/1513472-5/A107425-ND/3915254

 

[repentsinner]

The little tiny ones will only do 2.4Ghz wifi, so no AC.

I'm referring to ones like these, so I don't have to have any antenna hanging out
https://www.digikey.com/product-det...y-amp-connectors/2118060-1/A107430-ND/3915263
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/taoglas-limited/FXP830.24.0100B/931-1318-ND/4849884
https://www.digikey.com/product-det...y-amp-connectors/1513472-5/A107425-ND/3915254

Oh right, I forgot AC is at 5GHz. Higher frequency == shorter wavelength though, so the poster above who thought size matters was correct, but likely not in the direction they were implying

 

[jtcera]

I can do some testing with this, but I'd imagine it should be fine. They make 1/2 and full wave (and many others, RF is an endlessly deep rabbit hole) as well. My wireless router currently sits below the PC and is connected via cable anyway, so I only need the antenna for Bluetooth keyboard and mouse.

jtcera if you or someone else wants to take up some range/power testing, I'll send out a set of 1/4, 1/2, and full wave in exchange for your thoroughly conducted review, comparing and contrasting with the stock antennas that come with the boards



Which internal antennas are you referring to? Most boards with integrated wireless have connectors on the IO panel, no? You can certainly run a feedline from the IPEX connector or whatever on the wireless card to an RP-SMA on the chassis, like the stock setup on the h170n.

I appreciate the offer, but I live in such a small apartment that I'd be a bad candidate. I ordered 2x of the smallest ones. thanks for showing me these.

 

[Jonas Mellkvist]

Only manufacture i got answer about Minitx to Ryzen are Gigabyte.

End of March or begining of April.

Hope some come earlier

 

[dominathan]

So I'm currently thinking about getting 2 of these https://www.digikey.com/product-det...y-amp-connectors/1513472-5/A107425-ND/3915254

And sticking them on the back lip buy the gpu. There should be enough room for 2 of them (keeping in mind the Keep Away area) there, and they should stick out less than the GPU lip

 

[Henrik_s-a]

What makes you think that the SF450 won't get as warm? They will dissipate the same heat, and they will absorb the same heat from the same system. They should show the same behaviour.

The sf450 has been suggested to have a less aggressive fan profile.

My psu currently is not able to have semi-passive function whilst sitting on the table outside the case in idle (<50w 20 degree ambient). It is cool to the touch.

 

[HoodedHusky]

/watch?v=JZPRe81cLmc

I was looking at this to find an original solution. This reviewer says it's really bad.

Is this from personal experience?

If so, what is the basis of this statement and on what configuration?

I have one on order, and with the 4mm standoffs, you can actually even fit a duel 100mm Scythe 12mm fans as a push-pull solution (one underneath just fits) . Would be a tight fit with a 1mm air gap to the side panel, so outer fan would need to run at a slower speed to prevent turbulence and noise increase.

Love to hear you feedback.

 

[Woxys]

It dorsn't matter it will work in both position.

Thanks for the answer, what position do you recommend/use?
One more thing, if you take feedback for the future version of the case - would you take in consideration putting a headphone jack in the from of the case on the future 1.1 version? i was one of the people that voted against that in the early stage of the current case version (the strawpool) but now i'm starting to see the benefit of it, the wire is getting in the way of my hand and mouse. I would be so much cleaner with a headphone jack! I don't think it will hurt the aesthetics having a small round hole next to the USB port.
And a GPU bracket cover would be nice.

What you guys think?

Just my 2 cents

 

[Jspr]

Thanks for the answer, what position do you recommend/use?
One more thing, if you take feedback for the future version of the case - would you take in consideration putting a headphone jack in the from of the case on the future 1.1 version? i was one of the people that voted against that in the early stage of the current case version (the strawpool) but now i'm starting to see the benefit of it, the wire is getting in the way of my hand and mouse. I would be so much cleaner with a headphone jack! I don't think it will hurt the aesthetics having a small round hole next to the USB port.
And a GPU bracket cover would be nice.

What you guys think?

Just my 2 cents

Nah, don't need it. Plug it in the back and route the cabel.

 

[ManaNeko]

/watch?v=JZPRe81cLmc
I was looking at this to find an original solution. This reviewer says it's really bad.

Is this from personal experience?

If so, what is the basis of this statement and on what configuration?

I have one on order, and with the 4mm standoffs, you can actually even fit a duel 100mm Scythe 12mm fans as a push-pull solution (one underneath just fits) . Would be a tight fit with a 1mm air gap to the side panel, so outer fan would need to run at a slower speed to prevent turbulence and noise increase.

Love to hear you feedback.

Is this from personal experience?

This reviewer says it's really bad.

Did you watch the video?

The reviewer does his tests on a test-bench for a Sentry system. It's not the same system, but the environmental restrictions are so similar, I don't think it matters. The Noctua NH-L9i beats th ID Cooling VC45 in every way that matters except for price which is region specific.

 

[Ca11idus]

I think it was late 2015 when an [H] contacted ID Cooling because he found it to be lacking. He got a response from the company stating that they will release a new revision with updated thermals. They haven't done that and I don't expect them to any time soon. I've not seen a single case where the VC45 beats the l9i.

 

[Deleted member 222586]

The sf450 has been suggested to have a less aggressive fan profile.

My psu currently is not able to have semi-passive function whilst sitting on the table outside the case in idle (<50w 20 degree ambient). It is cool to the touch.

Well, with the fan test we agreed that with airflow the fan does stop... which means that the problem isn't caused by the load you apply but the operating temperatures of the psu.

So, less agressive does not apply here, because you simply are above the temperature threshold, and I would bet money that the other mother will have exactly the same threshold. All in all, it isn't working in semi-passive because it can't dissipate the heat it creates due to the absolute lack of airflow.

I don't know, maybe it is worth to send an email to Corsair to see what they say about it.

 

[Henrik_s-a]

Well, with the fan test we agreed that with airflow the fan does stop... which means that the problem isn't caused by the load you apply but the operating temperatures of the psu.

So, less agressive does not apply here, because you simply are above the temperature threshold, and I would bet money that the other mother will have exactly the same threshold. All in all, it isn't working in semi-passive because it can't dissipate the heat it creates due to the absolute lack of airflow.

I don't know, maybe it is worth to send an email to Corsair to see what they say about it.

I have already contacted them but no response yet. As I mentioned, the psu sits on a table with plenty air around. I find it ridiculous to advertise a product with semi-passive function if it only applies if it gets airflow from somewhere else.

 

[HoodedHusky]

Is this from personal experience?



Did you watch the video?

The reviewer does his tests on a test-bench for a Sentry system. It's not the same system, but the environmental restrictions are so similar, I don't think it matters. The Noctua NH-L9i beats th ID Cooling VC45 in every way that matters except for price which is region specific.

Yes, I have seen the video, but this only covers the IS-VC45

However Ozymandias post had mentioned the ID Cooling IS-50. A different cooler design completely. Might still be crap, but will find out this weekend!

 

[Sooth]

The little tiny ones will only do 2.4Ghz wifi, so no AC.

I'm referring to ones like these, so I don't have to have any antenna hanging out
https://www.digikey.com/product-det...y-amp-connectors/2118060-1/A107430-ND/3915263
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/taoglas-limited/FXP830.24.0100B/931-1318-ND/4849884
https://www.digikey.com/product-det...y-amp-connectors/1513472-5/A107425-ND/3915254

Which one of the above will do full AC wifi and BT 4.1? Can you attach/affix those internally inside the case?

 

[XstreamHard]

All of them should work for AC but you will need more than one, inside the case won't work (or work very poorly) since the case is a pretty perfect RF shield

 

[amvoith]

I have a really really curious question!, how much space in millimeters is there saved between the GPU block and the side OF the case??? I really gotta know the answer!

Approx. 24mm between the EK waterblock and the edge of the case.


In other news, I had to remount my block (it was off a bit) and my thermals are now as follows:

Ambient 21 C.

i7 4790K OC'd to 4.6 GHz @ 1.3v:
@ idle: cores are 20-22 C.
@ 100% load: the cores range from 66-74 C. Minor jumps up as high as 76 C on one of the cores.

GTX 980ti OC'd to 1500 MHz clock, 7012 MHz memory:
@ idle: 21 C.
@ 100% load: 39 C.

My cooling solution has a D5 vario at setting 3 and a 480mm x 60mm thick rad with fans at 600rpm (can't even hear them a foot away from me).
All in all I'm quite happy with this. Cooling could be better if I ramped up the fans but I like peace and quiet haha.