DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

CknSalad said:
The next GPU I will get will probably be a GTX 1070 price range (I'm waiting till possibly end of next year for the 2nd gen GPUs). Should I get the SF450 or the SF600? I see conflicting reports on the noise profile for especially the SF600.
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the medium size chip used in 1070/1080 only needs like 150W. the "big" nvidia and amd chips usually use 250W. to be honest, SF450 (which can provide more than 450W...) will probably run ANYTHING you can fit in this case.

if you're going to put a 250W video card (like the next titan) in this case, I wouldn't blame you for getting the SF600. but I really don't think you can build a >450W system in this case. you would need to get a 150W 12 core xeon, 250W video card, full ram, 3 hard drives, and every USB port filled with mice and keyboard and external hard drives. then you would need to run furmark, prime95, and copy files across every hard drive and mash buttons on every keyboard and mouse. MAYBE that would exceed what SF450 can do.
 
bAMtan2 said:
the medium size chip used in 1070/1080 only needs like 150W.
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Although it won't need constant 300, but it can ramp up to 300w when it comes to OC versions. I'm going SF-450 +1070 too.
 
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My dad told me there are only 2 days when a guy who buys a boat is actually happy. The day he buys it, and the day he sells it
 
Boil said:
Why…? The fans are literally right next to the perforated side panels…
48mm clearance for HSF, Cryorig C7 is 47mm tall; so, literally 1mm away from the perforated side panel, plenty of fresh air being sucked in by the HSF…
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I may not get the Cryorg cooler. I've read that the noise profile on it isn't the best so I'm considering the LP53 + fan (likely oversized so there is some airflow on the board/M2 drive as well). In any case, I won't be buying parts until Kaby Lake is available, so I'll be able to see how everyone's rigs perform before selecting coolers. :)

jtd871 said:
Since you're buying this case, you don't need any "headroom" with the PSU. Get the 450. The Tom's Hardware reviewer practically asked this PSU out for drinks.
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I've also been debating between the two and, while I'll likely get the 450W, I'm most concerned with heat and noise. Though the PSU is "Gold" certified, it's only efficient in this range at half load, not full load, so I wonder if, in the interest of heat and silence, it's better to get the 650W and use it at partial load?
 
antioch said:
I may not get the Cryorg cooler. I've read that the noise profile on it isn't the best so I'm considering the LP53 + fan (likely oversized so there is some airflow on the board/M2 drive as well). In any case, I won't be buying parts until Kaby Lake is available, so I'll be able to see how everyone's rigs perform before selecting coolers. :)
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Hmm, I'm surprised by your statement on the Cryorig C7 cooler, I'm currently using that now and haven't had any problems (and before I bought it, I also read lots of positive reviews on it).
 
AstroWan said:
Hmm, I'm surprised by your statement on the Cryorig C7 cooler, I'm currently using that now and haven't had any problems (and before I bought it, I also read lots of positive reviews on it).
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Which cpu you have and what are the load/gaming temps?
 
antioch said:
I may not get the Cryorg cooler. I've read that the noise profile on it isn't the best so I'm considering the LP53 + fan (likely oversized so there is some airflow on the board/M2 drive as well). In any case, I won't be buying parts until Kaby Lake is available, so I'll be able to see how everyone's rigs perform before selecting coolers. :)



I've also been debating between the two and, while I'll likely get the 450W, I'm most concerned with heat and noise. Though the PSU is "Gold" certified, it's only efficient in this range at half load, not full load, so I wonder if, in the interest of heat and silence, it's better to get the 650W and use it at partial load?
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CknSalad said:
Which cpu you have and what are the load/gaming temps?
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I'm using a 6700k currently, and Ill have to check the temps sometime once I get the opportunity (it'll be a bit since I'm going on vacation starting tomorrow so I'll get back to you on that when I'm back.)
 
Boil said:
Why…? The fans are literally right next to the perforated side panels…

48mm clearance for HSF, Cryorig C7 is 47mm tall; so, literally 1mm away from the perforated side panel, plenty of fresh air being sucked in by the HSF…
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Actually, the Cryorig C7's default fan has a "quad air inlet" system, which is essentially gaps in the frame surrounding the fan allowing it to "suck" in air from around the fan, not only from the top. This may affect temps by a few degrees as it sucks in the warmer air from inside the case rather than outside.

This is only theorycrafting, however, and may not be correct. :)
 
antioch said:
Actually, the Cryorig C7's default fan has a "quad air inlet" system, which is essentially gaps in the frame surrounding the fan allowing it to "suck" in air from around the fan, not only from the top. This may affect temps by a few degrees as it sucks in the warmer air from inside the case rather than outside.

This is only theorycrafting, however, and may not be correct. :)
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Probably less than 1C difference according to my experience with ducting. The 1mm gap also doesn't affect cooling much. In the end it's the mass of the heatsink that matters most. Micro-optimising cooling will only cause unnecessary anguish.
 
antioch said:
I've also been debating between the two and, while I'll likely get the 450W, I'm most concerned with heat and noise. Though the PSU is "Gold" certified, it's only efficient in this range at half load, not full load, so I wonder if, in the interest of heat and silence, it's better to get the 650W and use it at partial load?
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The efficiency difference will be too small to matter (and if the computer is more often run in idle than in load it could actually be worse, since efficiency at low loads is usually worse the higher the power rating the psu has), but a psu with a higher power rating may have beefier heatsinks and could thus be quieter (if the fan is run at a lower rpm) in practice. I'd pick the one that is generally considered quieter, regardless of power rating.
 
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backfeed said:
The efficiency difference will be too small to matter (and if the computer is more often run in idle than in load it could actually be worse, since efficiency at low loads is usually worse the higher the power rating the psu has), but a psu with a higher power rating may have beefier heatsinks and could thus be quieter (if the fan is run at a lower rpm) in practice. I'd pick the one that is generally considered quieter, regardless of power rating.
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The 450 and 600 have the same fan - or at least they did when reviewed - so the 600 may have a harder time cooling a higher load. Tom's reviewed both, so everyone on the fence go and read the reviews already!
 
crisisv87akd said:
Although it won't need constant 300, but it can ramp up to 300w when it comes to OC versions. I'm going SF-450 +1070 too.
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the graph you linked is the system load, not video card! very few sites measure or estimate the actual video card power load. guru3d tried, and here they find the 1070/1080 using up to 180 watts under synthetic load MSI GeForce GTX 1070 Gaming X review

techpowerup found similar results, with the reference 1070 using 150W in a game, but the MSI non-reference using 193W. MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X 8 GB Review
 
The SF600 can deliver much power than 600W, i see reviews and some info where this PSU can reach 650-700W

So i think (MAYBE) the SF450 can go up to 500W if the system need it.
 
In some review (i don't remember which one but it was detailed and professional) they measured the SF450 could deliver 515W continuously before safety shutdown.
 
I would say GTX 1080 or below is fine with the SF450. SF600 for a the 225-250W TDP highest tier GPUs, but I have read that it ran quite noisy running a 980 TI build. This is probably due to it being a lot harder to cool down a fairly high wattage 600w SFX psu.

The Asus Strix Gaming 8GB GTX 1080 review by HardOCP takes 311W (no OC) under gaming loads with a i5 [email protected]. I would say that the worst under gaming loads would be in the low 300-325W system at the wall. I guess it is great for future/upcoming Dan A4 owners since the clock speeds that third party vendors have are so close to the possible max OC you can achieve (within 2-3 FPS for most games at 1440P).
 
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CknSalad said:
I would say GTX 1080 or below is fine with the SF450. SF600 for a the 225-250W TDP highest tier GPUs, but I have read that it ran quite noisy running a 980 TI build. This is probably due to it being a lot harder to cool down a fairly high wattage 600w SFX psu.

The Asus Strix Gaming 8GB GTX 1080 review by HardOCP takes 311W (no OC) under gaming loads with a i5 [email protected]. I would say that the worst under gaming loads would be in the low 300-325W system at the wall. I guess it is great for future/upcoming Dan A4 owners since the clock speeds that third party vendors have are so close to the possible max OC you can achieve (within 2-3 FPS for most games at 1440P).
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Where did you see that a 980Ti build ran noisy? I've got a 980Ti and am planning to replace my SX600-G with either the SF450 or 600. I think I was already leaning toward the 600, but hoping it wasn't going to be noisy. (Though I guess if it's quieter than the SX600-G, that's progress.)
 
CknSalad said:
Reddit - 980 TI + 6700K (Last Post By nonah)
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Thank you so much! He said that "980ti + 6700k, which draws 380W from the wall when being tortured" and someone else said he was getting 300W readings from the wall with a Titan and 6700K. I might opt for the SF450 after all. I've just seen conflicting numbers from calculators (which I know are approximations only) for recommended wattage, but most user input has seems to go toward the 450 being good enough for a 6700K/980 Ti. Thank you again.
 
barvis said:
Thank you so much! He said that "980ti + 6700k, which draws 380W from the wall when being tortured" and someone else said he was getting 300W readings from the wall with a Titan and 6700K. I might opt for the SF450 after all. I've just seen conflicting numbers from calculators (which I know are approximations only) for recommended wattage, but most user input has seems to go toward the 450 being good enough for a 6700K/980 Ti. Thank you again.
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My guess is that it was Furmark + prime95 (or w/e heavy cpu benchmark tool). The 980 TI is more power hungry than the Titan in Furmark and we do not know if it was a reference or non-reference. The titan I am guessing was reference and not overclocked.

I will wait for the upcoming 500w Silverstone SFX psu (92mm fan version) and based on reviews will get that or the SF450. I wish that Corsair made a SF500 instead of a SF450 as it is the best in terms of wattage and noise for really small mini-itx builds like the Dan A4.
 
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barvis I also read through a few Reddit threads where a good portion agree that idle noise is better in comparison to the SFX-L 500w and SX-600G (both Silverstone). However, on gaming loads, it is still by far the loudest pc part. Unfortunately, I think for a good while, 450-500w SFX psus are going to be the most optimal in terms of noise, while easily powering <200W TDP GPUs.
 
CknSalad said:
barvis I also read through a few Reddit threads where a good portion agree that idle noise is better in comparison to the SFX-L 500w and SX-600G (both Silverstone). However, on gaming loads, it is still by far the loudest pc part. Unfortunately, I think for a good while, 450-500w SFX psus are going to be the most optimal in terms of noise, while easily powering <200W TDP GPUs.
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What GPU are you running? A 980 Ti as well? I swear the more I read, the more unsure I am of what PSU to put in my A4.
 
Oh well. Some very enligtening information I'm reading here. Too late for me though since I already picked up my SF600. More headroom can never hurt I guess
 
Blackreplica said:
Oh well. Some very enligtening information I'm reading here. Too late for me though since I already picked up my SF600. More headroom can never hurt I guess
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I think you should be fine for many years. I am more sensitive to noise than most, so the SF450 is more for me especially since I will just get a GTX 1070 or similar card. I just do not see the point in getting a >$400 GPU. A 450w should be fine for GTX 1070 or lower Priced GPU builds.
 
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a shortened ITX gtx 1070 by MSI is out!!!
this should change how we (I) decide the layout of the machine, with the addition of 3.5" HDD maybe possible... I'm interested to see how they perform compared to the full size 1070 and/or the 1080.
also waiting eagerly for the new AMD cards... the RX480 was a good introduction of what is to come imo.
whiskey does weird things to people. :)
 
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Eggyegg said:
a shortened ITX gtx 1070 by MSI is out!!!
this should change how we (I) decide the layout of the machine, with the addition of 3.5" HDD maybe possible... I'm interested to see how they perform compared to the full size 1070 and/or the 1080.
also waiting eagerly for the new AMD cards... the RX480 was a good introduction of what is to come imo.
whiskey does weird things to people. :)
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Not to be mean, but that is a Gigabyte ITX version. I am pretty sure that Asus and MSI will eventually come out with their own mini ITX versions.
 
Eggyegg said:
a shortened ITX gtx 1070 by MSI is out!!!
this should change how we (I) decide the layout of the machine, with the addition of 3.5" HDD maybe possible... I'm interested to see how they perform compared to the full size 1070 and/or the 1080.
also waiting eagerly for the new AMD cards... the RX480 was a good introduction of what is to come imo.
whiskey does weird things to people. :)
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Or a 120mm AIO. It doesn't seem very practical, but a bracket that accommodates either a 3.5" drive or a 120mm rad would definitely increase the versatility/value of the case. There is 45mm of clearance between the PSU and the graphics-card-side panel. With a 25-30mm rad and a 15mm slim fan, such as this one from SilverStone:

FW Series FW121

you should be able to install an AIO with the tubes routed south of the RAM and thru the hole under the PSU, and connecting to rad fittings facing down. That may prevent usage of the SSD cage, or limit it to one drive, but there is an additional SSD spot behind the front panel, plus you can use an M.2. Then the question is how much better would a 25-30mm single rad + slim fan pressed against a PSU perform compared to the Cryorig C7. I think a fair amount better. And the system would look absolutely sick. Won't require any major changes to the case, just a bracket and some holes to accommodate it.
 
Those itx-gfx are getting popular. It'd be cool if PSU's would follow the same route to make a smaller Dan A3. A shuttle-like psu can save like 8cm in depth, or about 5.5l total
 
jjsyht said:
Those itx-gfx are getting popular. It'd be cool if PSU's would follow the same route to make a smaller Dan A3. A shuttle-like psu can save like 8cm in depth, or about 5.5l total
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You mean an A5? :ROFLMAO: What you're looking for is the new FSP FlexATX 500W PSU (see iFreilicht's thread on this). They are quite a bit smaller than SFX, but also make a LOT of noise with their rear mounted 40mm fans. They're meant for servers, but it's possible to optimize them for consumer use, that is put a big fan on the side of them. But that hasn't happened yet. iFreilicht is trying get them out to consumers. Hutzy's 4L case may use them too.

As far as "ITX" graphics cards (I really hope that name sticks) -- I don't understand how ASRock can make an ITX X99 motherboard that can fit an LGA 2011-3 chip on it and is so dense you can't see the PCB from all the connections and chips, but graphics card manufacturers can't cram a 1080 onto a short card. HBM memory will certainly help, then they will have no excuse. Also, those DVI links have to go, so single slot watercooled versions are possible. /rant over
 
It will be your choice what my next project will be. I have 3 case layouts in my pipe and one completely new idea. I will make a poll in early 2017 where you can vote for your favorite project. But for now I have to put all my energy in the A4-SFX project. So we can talk about new projects in January.
 
QuantumBraced said:
Also, those DVI links have to go, so single slot watercooled versions are possible. /rant over
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I agree 1000%...they really have to do away with DVI. I understand some may still use them but high end cards like the 1070 and 1080 should be single slot when watercooled. I may be wrong but most ppl using high end cards are most likely using HDMI or DP.
 
jtd871 said:
The 450 and 600 have the same fan - or at least they did when reviewed - so the 600 may have a harder time cooling a higher load. Tom's reviewed both, so everyone on the fence go and read the reviews already!
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I thought the 600 was SFX-L? Doesn't really make sense to put an 80mm fan in a SFX-L unit when it can fit 120mm

Aircoookie said:
In some review (i don't remember which one but it was detailed and professional) they measured the SF450 could deliver 515W continuously before safety shutdown.
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Good guy Corsair, underrating their PSUs instead of overrating them unlike some people *glares menacingly at OEMs*

Curiositie said:
Awesome!
Although 2x DVI is kind of stupid.
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Agreed. If you REALLY need DVI, adapters are like $5. The least manufacturers could do is use Mini DVI.

QuantumBraced said:
Or a 120mm AIO. It doesn't seem very practical, but a bracket that accommodates either a 3.5" drive or a 120mm rad would definitely increase the versatility/value of the case. (...)
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Don't forget my side panel idea!

jjsyht said:
Those itx-gfx are getting popular. It'd be cool if PSU's would follow the same route to make a smaller Dan A3. A shuttle-like psu can save like 8cm in depth, or about 5.5l total
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This would be so epic!
 
dondan said:
It will be your choice what my next project will be. I have 3 case layouts in my pipe and one completely new idea. I will make a poll in early 2017 where you can vote for your favorite project. But for now I have to put all my energy in the A4-SFX project. So we can talk about new projects in January.
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Don't make me buy another case :D
 
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