Cyborg R.A.T. Mouse

Dan_D said:
My experience has always been that the Mad Catz, or furthermore anyone but the console OEM tends to produce controllers that aren't on par with the originals. As for mice I've found Logitech mice to be the best fit for me in both ergonomics and quality. The Microsoft mice are OK, but they aren't really my style. I've had issues with them from time to time. As for this mouse, it looks good on paper but the comments in this thread have me thinking twice about trying one unless I can get it for next to nothing. I have no desire to pay $100 or near $100 for a mouse that I might end up chucking at the wall or taking to the firing range for a good old fashioned execution.
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$100 is a lot of money for a MadCatz product when you have other proven Logitech and Razer mice out there.
 
Just buy it from Amazon. If you don't like it, return it no questions asked and they'll pay for the return shipping. What's there to lose except maybe some time?
 
Amazon won't pay for return shipping
"You may return most new, unopened items sold and fulfilled by Amazon.com within 30 days of delivery for a full refund. We'll also pay the return shipping costs if you're returning Clothing items, Baby items, or if the return is a result of our error. Items should be returned in their original product packaging. Just visit our online Returns Center, and we will guide you through the process and even supply you with a return mailing label you can print out."
 
Yes they will. On the return item page, specify an item defect - for example: software doesn't install correctly, sensor doesn't track correctly, etc., etc., and they'll pay for the return shipping. They almost never actually check the reason unless the item is of the extremely large/expensive variety, such as a LCD TV, and even then they'll just send an email to make sure you really want to return it.
 
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I returned mine to Amazon last week, and YOU pay for the shipping back, they do not.
 
I am also appalled at MadCatz's response of "who lifts a high sensitivity mouse anyway?" I lift my mouse very often, and the purpose it, I want to keep my arm at a comfortable angle whichever direction I am walking in an FPS. I would rather pick up my mouse and reposition it so my natural arm position is pointing where I want to go.

Either you need to give us a better response for that, MadCatz needs to hire somebody else to do forum PR, or nobody that reads this thread is going to buy your mouse. And I was really excited about it, but after seeing you try to dismiss a huge issue by saying that there's no reason to do things that many people do, and giving the excuse that you thoroughly beta tested it is making me shy away from all your products, not to mention make sure all my friends do the same.

[/disappointed rant]
 
Sphere said:
I returned mine to Amazon last week, and YOU pay for the shipping back, they do not.
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That depends which reason to return you chose was. If you chose defective or damaged during shipment as the reason to return and still didn't get offered a free USPS or UPS label or have the option to pay for a return label of your choice and get a reimbursement then call up customer service, they'll help you out.
 
I think i'm going to have to return this as much as I wanted to like it. The problem i'm having other that the thumb rest screw not holding it in the desired position is that I keep hitting the right click button. This may have to do with the way the mouse is shaped or it could just be my hand.. however, I do not have this problem with the Logitech G9 that I had before it (which i've gone back to). May be like the iphone 4, i'm just holding the mouse wrong... lol

Mad Catz Rich said:
Those saying they can still move the thumb area pivot when the screw is done up tight; yes, I can too - if I really squeeze it very hard. In practice though there's no way I'm going to be squeezing it that hard when I'm using the R.A.T. normally. If the pivot is moving under a small amount of pressure though then do let me know.
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...This was happening to me with just a small amount of pressure.. i'm not slamming on the button with any kind of force..
 
Told you guys the twin eye sensor is piece of crap. I bought a G500 after the imperator and this thing is perfect.
 
Got my new mousepad so taking it out for a real spin, already i find out that the thumb area, just isn't tested well or designed.
the thumb area has room for 3 buttons the sniper and foward/back. This is too lengthy, you cannot adjust to have your thumb available for all three. The proper design should have foward and back stacked on top of each other rather than the usual lateral configuration, they should have gone with the vertical configuration. Much like microsoft sidewinder series.
 
DanishDevil said:
I am also appalled at MadCatz's response of "who lifts a high sensitivity mouse anyway?" I lift my mouse very often, and the purpose it, I want to keep my arm at a comfortable angle whichever direction I am walking in an FPS. I would rather pick up my mouse and reposition it so my natural arm position is pointing where I want to go.

Either you need to give us a better response for that, MadCatz needs to hire somebody else to do forum PR, or nobody that reads this thread is going to buy your mouse. And I was really excited about it, but after seeing you try to dismiss a huge issue by saying that there's no reason to do things that many people do, and giving the excuse that you thoroughly beta tested it is making me shy away from all your products, not to mention make sure all my friends do the same.

[/disappointed rant]
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I had a line back then that my friend found funny. Every time I look at a MadCatz product I say, "MadCatz made me Mad."

I reposition my Mamba a little here and there for the same reasons as you. That's basic testing of a mouse and to overlook that is plain silly.
 
Sphere said:
I returned mine to Amazon last week, and YOU pay for the shipping back, they do not.
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Hmmm, either you guys are too honest, or haven't figured out the return system yet :). If you select either damaged or defective option as the reason for return, then once you click "Next", they immediately generate a prepaid return label for you to print. No going through customer service.
 
WorldExclusive said:
I had a line back then that my friend found funny. Every time I look at a MadCatz product I say, "MadCatz made me Mad."

I reposition my Mamba a little here and there for the same reasons as you. That's basic testing of a mouse and to overlook that is plain silly.
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Hmmm - maybe I should have qualified that statement a little more then; there's no reason that a high DPI user should be lifting their mouse at a critical point in their game if they're doing it for comfort reasons. If you're making such an adjustment then I'd have to ask whether you make that lift when you're trying to draw a bead on someones head or at a non-critical juncture of the game? Also - genuine question - have you noticed an issue of your aim being ruined when doing the same with your Mamba? - it's the same sensor after all. If it's not an issue for you with the Mamba then it shouldn't be an issue with the R.A.T.

McKie - the list of gaming surfaces that we tested with is long and I don't have the full list with me as I'm at home, but I can say that we use all of our own surfaces (V.1, V.3 and V.5 - plus the new one we're releasing soon, which is a very large 6mm thick surface that our sponsored team have spec'd), Razer's whole line (except the Megasoma and the Kabuto - just haven't got these in yet), the majority of the Steelseries line (except the Experience I-2 as it's not intended for use with lasers), the Everglide Titan and then numerous other random licensed, non-branded (that Rocketfish one you mentioned is in there) and freebie-with-a-tank-of-gas type mouse mats that we've collected over the years to make sure we're covering a wide range of possibilities. I think we've even got a leather one in there, which has seen better days but there you go.

We're looking into that issue that Lanx has reported and we'll be back with a suggestion soon.

Nims - have you tried adjusting the length, changing to one of the other pinkie grips or palm rests to see if that makes any difference to that issue you're getting with activating the right click?

It does sound though like there's a problem with your pivot screw if you can't tighten it to prevent movement with just a small amount of pressure, so you may well want to get that exchanged anyway.

Finally, I completely get where those who don't trust the Mad Catz brand are coming from if they're basing that on buying controllers back in the N64/PS1/Xbox 1 days. However, we're making a huge effort to improve things and that's already been seen with the Street Fighter IV Tournament Edition sticks and the Rock Band instruments, plus the acquisition of Saitek (which is where I came from) and, more recently, Tritton.
 
This mouse could've been nice if you guys dumped the twin eye, that simple. Lifting being for "noobs" is not an acceptable solution to me. Other mice that don't use the twin eye don't have the problem, and so I vote with my wallet by not buying any mouse that uses this sensor.
 
Mad Catz Rich said:
We're looking into that issue that Lanx has reported and we'll be back with a suggestion soon.

Finally, I completely get where those who don't trust the Mad Catz brand are coming from if they're basing that on buying controllers back in the N64/PS1/Xbox 1 days. However, we're making a huge effort to improve things and that's already been seen with the Street Fighter IV Tournament Edition sticks and the Rock Band instruments, plus the acquisition of Saitek (which is where I came from) and, more recently, Tritton.
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1. i just shaved the offending plastic off from the bottom and made it flush that way (with the screw tightened), it seems that the engineers decided to add like .02mm to the bottom of the thumb fearing it won't be flush, which is true, only if the mouse isn't tightened, when it is then it becomes a hinderance, since no one would ever use this mouse and not tighten the thumb adjustment, thats just silly.
2. mad catz has historically made garbage, i mean there just is not any nicer way to put it than that, while saitek has always been known for great flight stick things that look wierd. In reality it should be something like Mad-Sai or Sai-Catz, to merge the name much like squaresoft and enix to now square-enix. We're pc users/ gamers, we know these things, something saying like, saitek has merged with madcatz, the new company will use saitek products while using the warehouse and distribution madcatz has and none of the madcatz products.
 
Mad Catz Rich said:
Hmmm - maybe I should have qualified that statement a little more then; there's no reason that a high DPI user should be lifting their mouse at a critical point in their game if they're doing it for comfort reasons. If you're making such an adjustment then I'd have to ask whether you make that lift when you're trying to draw a bead on someones head or at a non-critical juncture of the game? Also - genuine question - have you noticed an issue of your aim being ruined when doing the same with your Mamba? - it's the same sensor after all. If it's not an issue for you with the Mamba then it shouldn't be an issue with the R.A.T.
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There's plenty of reason to be lifting up your mouse, high dpi or low, doesn't matter. CS:S for example; I could have my DPI setting at 5700 but my in-game sensitivity at 0.8 or have my DPI at 800 and in-game sensitivity at 6.0 - both settings will essentially take about an inch across to do a 180 turn. However, as you should know high dpi is not necessarily how sensitive you want your mouse cursor to be, it's also how much pixels the sensor actually reads per inch, hence DOTS PER INCH which means more per pixel accuracy.

With that said, I could still be a low sens gamer with high dpi. And low sens players are notorious for having to lift up their mice to re-adjust. Because if you have ever played an FPS as a low sens player; at some point in time you will find your hand and mouse at a slanted angle. Lifting the mouse up to reposition it centered and perfectly vertical on the mouse pad would be the quickest way. So, yes there is reason high dpi user's should be lifting up their mice, pros and noobs alike or at "critical points" in the game or not.

If you haven't seen the videos, I recommend you actually read this thread because someone posted a video showcasing the z-axis problem with a imperator or mamba, whichever one it is, it's still using the twin-eye phillips, just like the RAT 7. No two ways around it, it has been confirmed by many people who own mice with the twin eye sensors and have confirmed the z-axis problem.

No need to pull Steve Jobs/iPhone 4 tactics by telling people to use their product a certain way when the way they are using it is already practical and realistic. Acknowledge the problem and fix it.
 
Mad Catz Rich said:
McKie - the list of gaming surfaces that we tested with is long and I don't have the full list with me as I'm at home, but I can say that we use all of our own surfaces (V.1, V.3 and V.5 - plus the new one we're releasing soon, which is a very large 6mm thick surface that our sponsored team have spec'd), Razer's whole line (except the Megasoma and the Kabuto - just haven't got these in yet), the majority of the Steelseries line (except the Experience I-2 as it's not intended for use with lasers), the Everglide Titan and then numerous other random licensed, non-branded (that Rocketfish one you mentioned is in there) and freebie-with-a-tank-of-gas type mouse mats that we've collected over the years to make sure we're covering a wide range of possibilities. I think we've even got a leather one in there, which has seen better days but there you go.


.
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Thanks for the suggestions.
 
Mad Catz Rich said:
Nims - have you tried adjusting the length, changing to one of the other pinkie grips or palm rests to see if that makes any difference to that issue you're getting with activating the right click?
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Yes, I tired the different grips but none of them seemed to work any better. I have the current one RMA'ed because of the thumb rest problem but it's going to take Amazon another 4ish weeks to get me another mouse... =\
 
I think it's good that Rich is active in this thread; it's always nice to have a company rep on the forums to gather feedback and provide customer support. Hopefully the suggestions here will be noted and the product can be improved because of them. I can understand Lanx's frustration of feeling like a beta tester, and although I don't agree with the idea that we simply shouldn't lift our mice to avoid the problem, I respect Rich's forum etiquette (unwise reps could have responded rudely or harshly to some of the feedback I've seen here).

This is really a unique, one-of-a-kind product and I would like to see this mouse achieve greatness. It can be hard to stand out in the field of gaming mice where there is so much competition. I think the R.A.T. could be a wonderful mouse, possibly with a rev.2 of the product like some other companies do.

Rich, here's a genuine question for you: do you know the reason Mad Catz went with the Philips twin-eye sensor? I don't frequent every tech forum on the web, but I know that sensor is generally disliked around here for the reasons discussed in this thread. Was the Avago sensor ever considered, and if it was, why did the R.A.T. end up with the Philips sensor? Just curious if it boiled down to cost or some other reason. I have no idea how the R.A.T. is selling, but I would hate to see it fail primarily due to such a fundamental "flaw" (I know you are somewhat defensive of the twin-eye but it is apparent that the hardcore users would prefer a proven alternative). Is there any way Mad Catz would consider equipping the R.A.T. mice with the Avago sensor in the future?
 
I don't know what it is, i cannot use this mouse accurately. I thought maybe it was the new mousepad and i had to get used to it(it's now steelseries sx) so i swaped backed to my deathaddler. And i can move my mouse point to almost the exact pixel i want, where if i tried with the rat, i would miss it by 30pixels. they both have the hyperglide feet on them (or called steel series skates) and i made the rat as flush as possible. I don't know i just need more time, but i'm actually getting more wrist strain trying to make the mouse pointer "go" to where i want, i've tried all sorts of dpi settings, i'm hoping it's just "muscle memory" that i've just gotten so used to the death addler. Or that the death adder is 107 g and the rat w/o any weights is 154,i'll report back later.
 
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I have similar issues when swapping my mice. I mentioned in my mousepad thread that I wasn't 100% comfortable with 3000dpi @ 6/11 pointer speed (monitor is 23" 1920x1080) With the twin-eye mouse I do have a tendancy to overshoot the target, so I prefer to lower the pointer speed a little and then increase the dpi if necessary: 3200dpi @ 5/11 is better than 3000dpi @ 6/11

Muscle memory probably plays a part, but I think there may be other factors relating to how the physical mouse movement is translated to on screen pointer movement, my mouses definitely feel slightly different with the same settings. I don't know if this is because of the mouse drivers or the way the firmware is configured? Ace of Sweden are claiming that the Avago 9500 sensor offers 3600 native dpi, and above that is 'virtual' dpi. See their product spec page for the Edge3200. I'd like to know what is the native dpi for the equivalent twin-eye? and if these virtual dpi systems sacrifice other attributes? e.g. I have noticed that when you select very high dpi and reduce the pointer speed in windows very fast movements are heavily damped. Try 5600dpi @ 2/11, move the mouse fast and the pointer travels a much smaller distance than if you do it slowly?
 
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Dan_D said:
Yeah not being able to lift the mouse is a deal breaker. I'm not a low sensitivity gamer by any means but I do lift the mouse occasionally to reposition it.
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You might still be perfectly happy using a mouse with twin-eye (but you have a G9x so I'd stick with that until there is a genuine upgrade available)

If you lift the mouse straight up from a stationary position the pointer will twitch down and right, usually 0.25" - 0.5", sometimes a little more, but sometimes not at all. The demonstration video on YouTube is useful, but it's not showing you what happens under 'normal' use. Are you ever going to repeatedly lift the mouse up and down from an otherwise stationary position?
*** It does not twitch down and right if you are actually moving the mouse when you lift ***
​
This issue should not be an automatic deal breaker, for anyone who has doubts and does lift the mouse while adjusting aim I'd probably still recommend an Avago (or optical) mouse for maximum confidence. However I'm not 100% convinced that even if you are lifting the mouse this will actually present as a problem, it's just an occasional, minor annoyance when you re centre the mouse from a stationary position.
 
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IanM said:
You might still be perfectly happy using a mouse with twin-eye (but you have a G9x so I'd stick with that until there is a genuine upgrade available)
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lanM is speaking some truth. I have two Razer mice (lachesis, Imperator) with the twin-eye sensor and didn't even know about the tracking issue till I started looking at buying the cyborg and saw this thread. Sooo, I went and bought the Steelseries Xai which supposedly has the same sensor as some popular Logitech gaming mice. Long story short, I miss my razors. After 2weeks of using the new mouse my targeting/headshots is still crappy compared to my razers. So unless you pick your mouse up often you should consider the RAT7
 
imyourzero said:
I think it's good that Rich is active in this thread; it's always nice to have a company rep on the forums to gather feedback and provide customer support. Hopefully the suggestions here will be noted and the product can be improved because of them. I can understand Lanx's frustration of feeling like a beta tester, and although I don't agree with the idea that we simply shouldn't lift our mice to avoid the problem, I respect Rich's forum etiquette (unwise reps could have responded rudely or harshly to some of the feedback I've seen here).

This is really a unique, one-of-a-kind product and I would like to see this mouse achieve greatness. It can be hard to stand out in the field of gaming mice where there is so much competition. I think the R.A.T. could be a wonderful mouse, possibly with a rev.2 of the product like some other companies do.

Rich, here's a genuine question for you: do you know the reason Mad Catz went with the Philips twin-eye sensor? I don't frequent every tech forum on the web, but I know that sensor is generally disliked around here for the reasons discussed in this thread. Was the Avago sensor ever considered, and if it was, why did the R.A.T. end up with the Philips sensor? Just curious if it boiled down to cost or some other reason. I have no idea how the R.A.T. is selling, but I would hate to see it fail primarily due to such a fundamental "flaw" (I know you are somewhat defensive of the twin-eye but it is apparent that the hardcore users would prefer a proven alternative). Is there any way Mad Catz would consider equipping the R.A.T. mice with the Avago sensor in the future?
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I was going to say this very thing. fortunately imyourzero saved me a lot of typing.

I'm hoping that this thread doesn't get to heated, It's always nice to have a Rep stay active in a forum like this. Everyone here has had some kind of bad customer service experience. It's a breath of fresh air to have rich here to provide feedback
 
IanM said:
You might still be perfectly happy using a mouse with twin-eye (but you have a G9x so I'd stick with that until there is a genuine upgrade available)

If you lift the mouse straight up from a stationary position the pointer will twitch down and right, usually 0.25" - 0.5", sometimes a little more, but sometimes not at all. The demonstration video on YouTube is useful, but it's not showing you what happens under 'normal' use. Are you ever going to repeatedly lift the mouse up and down from an otherwise stationary position?
*** It does not twitch down and right if you are actually moving the mouse when you lift ***
​
This issue should not be an automatic deal breaker, for anyone who has doubts and does lift the mouse while adjusting aim I'd probably still recommend an Avago (or optical) mouse for maximum confidence. However I'm not 100% convinced that even if you are lifting the mouse this will actually present as a problem, it's just an occasional, minor annoyance when you re centre the mouse from a stationary position.
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The Cyborg R.A.T. was the first mouse I actually considered "upgrading" to because of its ergonomics and feature set. I've been extremely happy with my Logitech mice and especially the G9x. If the R.A.T. wasn't stellar then I wasn't going to upgrade. Sounds like it still needs work. I beta test enough hardware as it is so I'll just pass on this one.
 
Guys, please don't think that I'm saying that "lifting is for n00bs" - I've not said anything like that. IanM's pretty much stated exactly what I'm saying - most people will never even notice the lift issue and even of those that do, there's a large proportion that will find it doesn't affect them when it comes to actually gaming with the mouse. I'm not saying that those of you who do find it an issue are wrong either, before you think that!

Going to imyourzero's question about why we chose the Twin Eye over the Avago, it had nothing to do with cost as there's not that much between them on that front. It really did come down to the decision about 'lift issue' vs. 'positive acceleration' and acceleration of any kind has always been considered a big negative for anyone we've asked. It's possible to correct for that slight Z-axis movement when you lift and then put the mouse down again when aiming, but acceleration will remove the required predictability in your aiming.

The CS:S players that used to be in our clan in particular tend to play with the DPI wound right down and they use the full surface of their 450mm wide mouse mat when aiming so that a full sweep from one side to the other equals a 90 degree turn in game. Their muscle memory tells them that as long as they make the same distance movement each time, they'll always turn the same amount - acceleration removes that predictability.

At low DPI levels, the amount that the cursor will move on lift is very small; also (and this is important) if you lift the mouse quickly you'll often find that you don't see the Z axis issue at all. When they're doing a 180 degree turn they will flick the mouse from one side to the other and then quickly pick up the mouse and do the next flick - those with Twin Eye sensors, give it a try; a casual lift will see the cursor move as you lift, but with a quick lift you shouldn't see it move at all.

Native DPI was also a factor: the Philips sensor is native right the way up to 5600 so we don't need to do any interpolation in the firmware to achieve that. As you can see from the Edge3200 page, anything up at the same level on the Avago is interpolation and this will adversely affect things like tracking speed.

What IanM raises about DPI vs. sensitivity is something that also should be addressed here and why what BETA says isn't quite on the money. Something that always seems to get forgotten about in the sensor debate is tracking speed and for anyone that sets their sensitivity or DPI down low this is incredibly important. The tracking speed of a sensor is usually inversely proportional to the DPI that you set it to - in other words, if you set your DPI high, you'll actually get less tracking speed. For those low DPI/low sensitivity players this will affect them because they do move the mouse so fast, and once you're moving the mouse faster than the sensor can track you'll get all kinds of nasty things happening with your cursor.

If you're setting your DPI high and sensitivity low try inverting that and see how you get on.

Would we ever consider using an Avago sensor in the R.A.T. in future? Yes, of course but there are other sensor manufacturers out there too and don't forget that this is all discussion about the current generation of sensors - we'll be keeping an eye on whatever they bring out next and evaluating those as they become available.
 
mad catz rich wanted a pic of what i modded



i just scraped the circled stuff in yellow off and tested flush w/ razor edge and placed it on a glass desk. of course this mean i now offically own this mouse, even though i'm still currently using the death adder (the rat just doesn't track as well, idk i want to get used to the death adder + new steelseries sx mousepad b4 i judge).

mad catz rich
from your comments i think that you let a clan test out this rat mouse and they were satisfied? i find that unlikely as i find so much structurally wrong w/ this mouse and then on screen performance issues as well i cannot see how a "clan" would not have given any of these issues any thought, unless they were the lowest ranked clan.

also i scraped off the rat teflon pads, those black pads (i think 3m?) are really crappy the hyperglides that come w/ the steelseries mouse pads are the best in the business. I cannot measure it, but i can feel the friction between the crappy oem black pads vs the hyperglide whites.
 
Well I just got mine on Friday and I have to say that I really like the feel of it.
It is still early but so far everything is working fine for me.
The only issues I have are 1. The placement of the three thumb buttons is just wrong, there is no way to work all three buttons comfortably ,the sniper button should be beneath the forward and back buttons.
2. It will not work with my Razer eXactMat, on the smoother side it won't do anything at all,on the rougher side the tracking is very jerky,like dragging your mouse over gravel.
I guess I will keep an eye on this thread to see which pads will work the best with this mouse.For me I think this mouse is a keeper,and also my wife thinks it is ugly ;)
 
50$ steelseries sx pad works just fine for me, as good as my old icemat i2 did for my death adder. The only bonus to buying such an expensive aluminium pad is that they include the hyperglide skates which imo are the best feet around.

*edit*
I'd also like to know what is the purpose of having three programmable modes? It can't be for different games, b/c that would be the different profiles that you can use. Would it be for like being in first person one second then in a tank the other time? Plus i don't see the usefulness of it, you can only tell the difference of the modes by the color of the mode selector, are you really gonna look down on your mouse to see if you got blue/green or red going on to go "oh now i know what the thumb button does!" I just don't see a point, maybe for 2 modes, then if you fail on one mode you'll know right away you have to click the mode button, or it would probably be more useful if the "mode selector" was instead changed to a "shift" button, then you could just have the buttons do a different operation if you like, rather than stop what you're doing look down at the current color of mode, and click.
Also the "mode selector" like one person here has said is basically the most useless button on the mouse or any mouse i have ever used. It is next to impossible to press because of where it is located. there is so much resistance in the button that you almost have to prepare yourself to put extreme pressure on your index/pinky finger to press it so that your cursor doesn't sail all the way to the left. IMO no one has ever tested this b/c it's unusable, plus when you do press it, your finger is covering up the whole button so you actually don't know what color mode it is on. Maybe just have the whole damn mouse glow blue red or green?
 
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So far I find myself going back to my old mouse the G5. The rat is really comfortable but I'm having a hard time getting used to this sensor or mouse in general. Not sure All I know is that the times I use the rat in the battlefield I get slaughtered. and when using the rat in normal browsing. Sometimes when I move the mouse over to click something on the opposite side of the page. the cursor has a slight delay before it catches up with the mouse movement. I'll try to get a video of it today if I can. I'm almost sure it is my surface that is causing that issue. Because my mamba did the same thing when it was used on cloth . once I switched to a hard surface the issue was gone. Only problem is I'm currently using a hard surface. So I don't know.
I really think this mouse is on the right track though. with it being totally adjustable. Cant even think of all the times I bought a mouse only to immediately hand it over to the wife or kids because I didn't like the way it felt. or after playing for awhile and getting severe cramps in my hand. The comfort is there with this mouse. that's why I'm keeping it around and will continue to try to get it dialed in

I generally like heavy mouses. but I think I will try removing some of the weights today and see what that does for me. Will also play around with the sensitivity and acceleration combination's and see if I can find a sweet spot. The presision aim button is just a bit
(not much) but a little to forward . I can adjust it so the aim button is in good position but then the back button is a little to far back if I adjust for a good position for the back button then I need to reach forward for the aim. I have it adjusted pretty close to a happy median.
but It will just take some time getting used to using more of the bottom part of the thumb to activate the back button. Which I usually have set for toggle crouch. Again.. it's just more of a matter of me getting used to something different.
 
I've used the mouse intensively over the past week, and so far I love it. I do have one negative piece of feedback, though: the screw below the forward/back buttons is placed right where my thumb sits. I've already rubbed the paint off the top surface of that screw just by using it for the last week. On top of that, the screw head isn't the most comfortable place for my thumb to be, I can definitely feel it pretty much all the time since that's dead-center where my thumb naturally goes.
 
After using this mouse for a few weeks now, I can honestly say this is a really nice mouse. The twitching problem I've experienced before is no longer existent. Maybe because the mouse feet got broken in and isn't as ultra glidey as when it was brand new. It was so slick that clicking made it jitter a bit. But overall, I am very happy with my purchase. Only thing I hated was the software needing a .NET update which I did not know about during a new OS restore installation. Smarttechnology wouldn't load and I thought it was a botched install or something. Should have a .NET update included in the software at least to avoid this kind of problem for other users.
 
Yes, the .NET thing is something we're looking into to see if we can get around that. The issue with including the .NET 3.5 redistributable in the download (which we could do) is that it's over 230MB in size - we get complaints if downloads go over 50MB, so an extra 230MB added to the download wouldn't go down well, especially as most don't need it.

For most people it shouldn't be an issue because Windows Update should take care of making sure you've got the latest version of each .Net Framework that's available, but support know how to address this if it occurs so if anyone experiencing it gets in touch then they should get advised of how to fix it.
 
I have a Logitech 9x and it moves when I lift it off. I guess I just don't see what all the fuss is about the cursor moving if you lift the mouse. Do you expect it to stay exactly where it was and if so why? Humans have good hand eye coordination and it can't be that hard to readjust some if it does move a bit. Now I'm not a huge FPS player though I like them and do play them, but I also play other type games and from an ergonomical standpoint this thing is pretty amazing.
 
gman said:
I have a Logitech 9x and it moves when I lift it off. I guess I just don't see what all the fuss is about the cursor moving if you lift the mouse. Do you expect it to stay exactly where it was and if so why? Humans have good hand eye coordination and it can't be that hard to readjust some if it does move a bit. Now I'm not a huge FPS player though I like them and do play them, but I also play other type games and from an ergonomical standpoint this thing is pretty amazing.
Click to expand...

Any other mouse on the planet will have a bobble when you lift up, but they will also return to the general area that the cursor was when you lifted after setting it back down. The twin eye does not return, it drops down and to a side and stays there.
 
gman said:
I have a Logitech 9x and it moves when I lift it off. I guess I just don't see what all the fuss is about the cursor moving if you lift the mouse. Do you expect it to stay exactly where it was and if so why? Humans have good hand eye coordination and it can't be that hard to readjust some if it does move a bit. Now I'm not a huge FPS player though I like them and do play them, but I also play other type games and from an ergonomical standpoint this thing is pretty amazing.
Click to expand...

A normal mouse will jitter up slightly when you pick it up and back down slightly when you set it back down. The Twineye will jerk down and to the right, even with a perfectly straight pickup and set down.
 
I guess I had to adjust to the mousepad, after using the new steelseries sx with my old deathadder for 1 week (and lowering rat dpi) i'm able to produce almost the same accuracy w/ the rat. This is not going to be instantaneous of course, i have too many years of muscle memory w/ the death adder, but i think some here said, dpi is not the same across all mice, so i've been experimenting (on the lower side) and so far r.a.t. at 1500 feels almost like 1800 death adder dpi. I also sent in some questions about firmware upgrades, as in if any would come b/c well if you look at the horrible website, they do not seem to include firmware drivers or even the rat software yet.
Driver software
I don't really have a need yet for macro's but adjusting the 4 dpi settings is really nice.
However, now using the dpi switch more i wish the switch had more of a "rocker" type feel. the "back dpi" has a nice bump, while the foward dpi has none, so it's more tactile to go back and not so much to go foward.
I have used the macro software, since you cannot adjust mousewheel speed(i prefer a fast scroll) i macro'd pgdn and pgup to the thumbscroll and thats nice.
Still have no idea and use on 3 modes of macro's if anyone here has any opinion and use on it, please chime in!
 
Ok playing with the software (which is still horrible lol, driver support redirects you to saitek) theres a setting where you can flip the mouse to the bottom and adjust sensitivity, i think setting this to zero, allows me to "almost" have the same precision as i did with my death adder. with my death adder i could stop on a dime or stop on a pixel per say, with the rat i drift and miss +5 or 10 pixels. playing with this, i think it helps? idk have no idea what this really does.
 
nm...Im going to wait and go back logitech till I see more convincing reviews on this product. I really want to trust this mouse, I hate the pinky drag more then anything and love the idea of all the custom option for this mouse but other then that, it seems there are better options to stick with.
 
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