Cyborg R.A.T. Mouse

I would never by a MadCatz product. Ever since the late 90s MadCatz has been pushing crap console controllers so I wouldn't expect anything different from their PC components. I almost never vent about a company, but MadCatz really burned me back then. Used my allowance for a new PlayStation controller in the 90s and it did everything but operate the game.
 
ok ppl with software/driver issues (like me) here's email i just got.

Apologies for the issues you're experiencing with the Icemat, however
anything glass-based was not part of our testing setup, because lasers
will usually not work correctly on glass surfaces. We have tested with
hard, foam and silicone-based surfaces and on all of these the laser
works perfectly.

As regards your issues with the software, we should have an updated
version of the drivers and software going up on the site later today.

Best Regards
Richard Neville

also since this mouse doesn't work on my frosted glass i'm gonna have to buy a metal pad (i hate plastic vehmonently) so i'm gonna have to spend another 50bucks? to get this POS mouse to work? $50, man if it didn't feel good in the hand i'd give up already.
 
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Lanx said:
ok ppl with software/driver issues (like me) here's email i just got.

Apologies for the issues you're experiencing with the Icemat, however
anything glass-based was not part of our testing setup, because lasers
will usually not work correctly on glass surfaces. We have tested with
hard, foam and silicone-based surfaces and on all of these the laser
works perfectly.

As regards your issues with the software, we should have an updated
version of the drivers and software going up on the site later today.

also since this mouse doesn't work on my frosted glass i'm gonna have to buy a metal pad (i hate plastic vehmonently) so i'm gonna have to spend another 50bucks? to get this POS mouse to work? $50, man if it didn't feel good in the hand i'd give up already.

Best Regards
Richard Neville
Click to expand...

Well it IS a laser... just update the software and try it on your desktop for a bit (assuming you have a smooth desktop).
Report back after the software update too! I'd very much like to know what they did. :)
 
update again:
new drivers if you haven't found them on the website (don't know if released yet)
32-bit
ftp://ftp.saitek.com/pub/software/full/Cyborg_RAT_SD7_32bit_Drivers_pfw.exe

ftp://ftp.saitek.com/pub/software/full/Cyborg_RAT_SD7_v7_0_1_12_32bit_Software_pfw.exe


64-bit
ftp://ftp.saitek.com/pub/software/full/Cyborg_RAT_SD7_64bit_Drivers_pfw.exe

ftp://ftp.saitek.com/pub/software/full/Cyborg_RAT_SD7_v7_0_1_12_64bit_Software_pfw.exe

edit
32 bit actually works for my win7 32 home theatre!
64 bit still fails on my main pc boo, so they still have driver issues

frosted glass update.
well apparently my gray mousepad will never work, however my fiance's red frosted glass icemat works(she likes the glass too) however, it works as well as a cheap 3$ mouse, tracking issues all over, so idk what info that garners.

i'll wait another week b4 i give up entirely on this mouse and driver issues, if drivers for 64bit actually work for me, then i'll suck it up and buy a new metal mouse pad.
 
McKie said:
Update.

Tried it on my other computer. Programing keys worked. figured out that the mouse software will not work with Logitech g15 keyboard drivers installed. had to uninstall anything logitech.

o yeah , .NET Framework 3.5.1 here 64 bit
Click to expand...

Ugh, that's a dealbreaker, cuz I won't toss out my G19. Not the first time I've run into conflicts with logitech drivers, though admittedly the last time was years ago.
 
bitgod said:
Ugh, that's a dealbreaker, cuz I won't toss out my G19. Not the first time I've run into conflicts with logitech drivers, though admittedly the last time was years ago.
Click to expand...

According to Rich The person that Talked with me
they did not run into any such issues when testing the R.A.T.s alongside the G15

He said they do test with the competition’s products.

Me not being able to program the keys was clearly the logitech g15 keyboard software and, or the drivers. because as soon as I uninstalled them everything was working as should be.

He did suggest loading the latest version of the G15’s software on again now that I have the R.A.T. installed. which I will try later when I have some time .

and It is fare for me to say that Rich from Mad Catz was very helpful in working with me trying to figure out the Issue. and the emails back and forth was almost instant. back to back responses. so although it took a few days. in the end I would say that I rushed to judgment on the quality of the customer service.

I havnt had any problems using the rocketfish mouse pad . Seems to be ok
 
I really really want this mouse, but I lift my mouse pretty darn often when gaming. I might order one from Best Buy to try out so I can return it if it ends up being an issue.

For everyone who has had an issue with using a Logitech keyboard alongside, I'm using an Illuminated Keyboard (no macro keys or display) but still like having Setpoint installed for the on-screen notifications when I use media and volume keys. Is there any interference with that?
 
I didn't really test out the lift issue, since i don't lift my mouse, i will i guess soon, but i haven't had any updates from support for better updated drivers, i'm gonna have to send this mouse back in like 3 days cuz i think amazon's return policy is only 14 days.
 
Lanx said:
I didn't really test out the lift issue, since i don't lift my mouse, i will i guess soon, but i haven't had any updates from support for better updated drivers, i'm gonna have to send this mouse back in like 3 days cuz i think amazon's return policy is only 14 days.
Click to expand...

30 days actually. Some large electronics like home theater systems get 60 days.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/?nodeId=901888#policy

Waiting for the R.A.T. 9 myself. Looking for anything to reduce the amount of wire clutter underneath my desk.
 
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Lanx said:
I didn't really test out the lift issue, since i don't lift my mouse, i will i guess soon, but i haven't had any updates from support for better updated drivers, i'm gonna have to send this mouse back in like 3 days cuz i think amazon's return policy is only 14 days.
Click to expand...

Hi Lanx,

I sent you an email yesterday asking a few more troubleshooting questions. I'll post them here just in case you didn't get it:

1. Is Smarttechnology.exe crashing every time you try and run the profile editor?
2. Could you give us a screen grab of the crash showing the exception that it displays?
3. Are you running anything that alters the appearance of Windows, such as Windowsblinds?
 
I just got mine yesterday and although the mouse and it's features are very nice, I had a problem with the Thumb Adjustment. When I loosened up the Hex for the thumb area and moved it to the desired area, it would not keep it's position and the hex would not tighten all the way. The unfortunate thing is that it took Amazon 4 weeks to finally get it to me and they told me it could take 1 to 4 weeks to get another one out to me.

 
1. yes
2.
3. no

I'm at the point of going all window reformat, tho i don't know if that is something i should do.
 
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Lanx said:
I didn't really test out the lift issue, since i don't lift my mouse, i will i guess soon, but i haven't had any updates from support for better updated drivers, i'm gonna have to send this mouse back in like 3 days cuz i think amazon's return policy is only 14 days.
Click to expand...

I'd appreciate it. Thanks!
 
So far, I like the mouse. I do see the problem with lifting the mouse and when you left click, the mouse cursor does shift slightly, but my guess is because of the sensitivity of the laser. I tried playing bad company 2 and I owned and never noticed any of the problems I stated earlier. I didn't see or feel any slight shifts while sniping, since that require pin point precision.

Has anyone wondered why the "rapid-fire" words are below the left mouse click? I looked around in the software and don't see anyway to customize or adjust the rapid fire option.
 
so to make these horrible drivers work (half of us agree that these drivers were rushed and crappy) i had to do a reinstall of win7 and now the crappy software works.
There is a HUGE margin of error when you lift the mouse, the lower your dpi settings the smaller the shift, the higher your dpi settings the larger the shift.
for me it always shifts bottom right, and when i upped it to 5800 dpi the cursor went from the middle fo the screen to the corner

this isn't an issue for me since i do not lift my mouse but using my razor addler ver1 there is zero lift issue, so yea i never noticed this b/c my mice haven't had this issue.

I do lift my mouse now, since i can't use my frost glass and am using the most ghetto mousepad until i get a metal one and this ghetto mouse pad is literally half the size of my frosted glass.

overall this week long experience has been a 2/10.

Can i recommend this mouse? not if you have a short fuse, not if you lift your mouse, not if you have frosted glass, and not if you like testing beta products.

*edit*
really going through hoops to make this mouse work, just purchased a steel series sx metal pad, i know what people are thinking, why do i have to buy a 50$ pad? well your not gonna have a guy on welfare drive a bentley are you? you should match a $100 mouse with a pad that is at least 20$. I just hate mouse pads that warp (i.e. plastic) and bend and since my frosted glass doesn't work, next option is a metal pad (which from research this seems to be the only one on the market). I really don't want to support steel series, they just seem to make the mouse pads I like. Oh and at least this will include 5 mouse feet to fix this problem of the pinky section, missing a teflon pad.

So much beta is still in this mouse, we have one report of the thumb adjustment not working (mine is not working alrite, if i adjust it halfway and REALLY tighten it, it will still move) to jumping lasers and horrible drivers to missing teflon on the pinky piece? I really don't want to complain and I really want this mouse to work, but we shouldn't have to futz around with a mouse that is still in beta, considering it is among the top 3 most expensive wired mice around. (the rat9 wireless version will make it the most expensive mouse period, and still probably have all these beta errors).
 
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Well it was a shame you reinstalled, Lanx. If you'd given me the troubleshooting info that I requested then that would have helped us isolate where the issue was coming from and we could have found what was causing it. Glad it's all working for you now.

I've got to refute all the 'beta' comments though - we've been externally beta testing these mice for a few months now and no one has reported the software issues that you have and, equally, they've not shown up here in internal testing. Obviously as a power user (I'd class just about anyone on Hardforum as a power user) you're very aware that not all Windows installations are equal and the fact that the software is now working after a reinstall does back that up - there are a great many factors that we can never possibly account for in testing simply due to the myriad possible things that anyone can install onto their PC. I'm not saying our drivers and software are perfect because I don't think any company can truly say that, but there's usually more to it than just "it's the driver that's at fault".

As regards the lift issue with the Philips Twin Eye sensor obviously at high DPI settings any movement will be exacerbated but there's no reason at all that a high DPI user should be lifting their mouse!

Those saying they can still move the thumb area pivot when the screw is done up tight; yes, I can too - if I really squeeze it very hard. In practice though there's no way I'm going to be squeezing it that hard when I'm using the R.A.T. normally. If the pivot is moving under a small amount of pressure though then do let me know.

Keep the comments coming guys - all feedback is welcome and good - and if anyone gets any further software issues please let me know the same info I asked Lanx. You can post it here or through the query form on the Cyborg site - they all come through me.
 
Just one question Mad Catz Rich, how does the rapid fire option work? I've looked around in the software and couldn't find anything relevant to it.
 
The beta comment was towards the Physical design of the mouse itself, i knew going into this madcatz will have software/driver issues b/c of it's reputation.

The physical mouse itself is beta, i already stated the pinky area that wasn't teflon'd how can you teflon every piece of of the mouse and miss the pinky area so that if you do actually USE the pinky area and "lean" your pinky on the mouse it doesn't tilt to the right and scrape the mouse pad b/c your actually using that feature? that is a beta issue, for a 100$ mouse

I knew going into this mouse hte philips twin eye would be a downgrade, as everyone else in this thread did as well, this thread has been active for 6 months and you'd think someone would address the beta issue of a crappy mouse sensor? again, another beta issue for the physical sensor for a $100 mouse.

weak thumb adjustment, this has obviously not been tested, b/c if anyone has gamed for at least 30minutes of gameplay in what i would assume would be a FPS (since this is geared towards gamers and even has a sniper button) you would "twitch" and squeeze your thumb a little a lot. after a while, those tiny "twitches" will move thumb adjustment in.
I will test this out, when i get my new metal mousepad i'll game and use a digital micrometer to test to see how much the thumb adjustment travels.

This is what i mean by beta mouse, i am talking strictly only on the physical aspects of the mouse and how these things are overlooked, if it was actually tested properly ppl would have said.
1. lets replace the cheap twin eye sensor
2. lets put a teflon pad on the pinky adjustment so it's even out
3. lets put an extra washer or something in the thumb adjustment or some type of click thing so it stays put.

Again this is just on the physical aspects of the beta mouse, i realize the drivers and software are horrible, in fact when i was able to use the 32bit version on my home theatre pc, i couldn't resize the software interface... why does this matter? well on a home theatre pc my settings are like 1280x720 and the software interface is like 1000 in length. Sure this doesn't matter, i just had to resize to test out the software, but this oversight just lends itself to just how alpha these drivers and software package are.

The mouse is physically good, i'm sure lots of ppl like myself were willing to give up sensor quality, solid drivers, and build quality oversight for a highly adjustable mouse that is the first in the computing world, you said it yourself we are power users, so don't you believe we have "power opinions" as well?
 
I'm looking for a new mouse - and am wondering if this one would be a nice rpelacemetn for my trusty old mx1000.

I really like thumb buttons - the mx 1000 has 3.

Does this have 4 (2 buttons and 2 from the up down side scrolling wheel)

How many real binds do you have on this mouse.

On my mx1000 I have
Mouse 1
Mouse 2
Scrollbutton
Thumb 1
Thumb2
Thumb3
Sidescroll Left
Sidescroll R
Scroll Up
Scroll down
Middle top button
Middle bottom button

Which gives me 12 configurable actions
I don't really need 12 - but having most actions bound on a mouse instantly gives aging gamers like me a slight edge at times that's always helpful


Fire
Alternate fire
Melee
Reload
Zoom
grenade
Jump (don't ask)

Takes me up to 7 - and I certainly need 7

So...

THe Rat does (just on looking at the pictures)

Mouse1
Mouse2
Scroll up
Scrolldown
Sidescroll up
Sidescroll down
Thumb1
Thumb2

Which gives 8 - is this correct or not.

Also, in some games you need to rapidly click mouse 1 - which I'm always slow in doing.

Will the rat allow a macro for this?
 
Lanx said:
This is what i mean by beta mouse, i am talking strictly only on the physical aspects of the mouse and how these things are overlooked, if it was actually tested properly ppl would have said.
1. lets replace the cheap twin eye sensor
2. lets put a teflon pad on the pinky adjustment so it's even out
3. lets put an extra washer or something in the thumb adjustment or some type of click thing so it stays put.
Click to expand...

1. Trust me, the twin eye is not a cheap sensor.
2. That's a fair point but again, no one ever mentioned this as an issue in testing - we can only change the things that we know are an issue! It's easily addressed though so we will.
3. There is a grip washer in that mechanism that does a very good job of keeping it secure.

Lanx said:
i couldn't resize the software interface... why does this matter? well on a home theatre pc my settings are like 1280x720 and the software interface is like 1000 in length. Sure this doesn't matter, i just had to resize to test out the software, but this oversight just lends itself to just how alpha these drivers and software package are.
Click to expand...

The default size for the interface is 700 x 700 so it should fit fine onto any commonly used monitor resolution - we don't allow it to go any smaller because then we can't fit on all the components of the settings and programming screens. On 1280x720 it will fill the whole vertical space, but you should still be able to see the whole interface with no issues.

Lanx said:
The mouse is physically good, i'm sure lots of ppl like myself were willing to give up sensor quality, solid drivers, and build quality oversight for a highly adjustable mouse that is the first in the computing world, you said it yourself we are power users, so don't you believe we have "power opinions" as well?
Click to expand...

Not disputing your right to have opinions at all - we welcome them, as I said - but I have to respond to the assertion that you're giving up sensor quality, solid drivers and build quality oversight:

1. The Twin Eye is a good sensor
2. Have you had any issues with the drivers since your reinstall? (and please note the others that have reported no issues at all)
3. A lot of people oversaw this mouse - including some very public hands-on time at the Intel Extreme Masters event at CeBIT in March where we had many thousands of the public playing on our stand over the week - so when I say it didn't get reported as a problem in testing, this wasn't from a small sample of people.


redmasc said:
How does the rapid fire option work? I've looked around in the software and couldn't find anything relevant to it.
Click to expand...

Rapid Fire, just relates to the way the click mechanism has been tuned for rapid firing without the resultant dead feeling that you can get with some mice.

You can of course program a rapid fire macro in the software if you wish, which would answer part of rhiridflaidd's question. To answer the other part of his question, yes those are the buttons which are available on the R.A.T.. Do bear in mind that there is also the mode button which allows you to program a different function to each button depending on which mode you're in.
 
So what exactly does the mode button do - is this the Central button beneath the scroll wheel. What buttons can it reconfigure, and what macros does the mouse allow?

And does this mean that there is no Right or left gesture available in the scrollwheel itself?

Also we've got the DPI changer button of course, which seems a very, very nice thing to have.

I'm just a person that likes loads and loads of mouse buttons!
 
The central button (well, rocker to be precise) is the DPI adjuster - press it forwards to go up the DPI settings; back to go down them. The mode button is the one with the cyborg head logo on the 'wing' there to the left of the left mouse button and clicking it will cycle through three programming modes (indicated by a colour change of the Cyborg logo on that button). In the software you can program the following:

Scroll wheel click
Back button
Forwards button
Sidescroll left
Sidescroll right

Each of those buttons can have a different function assigned to them in each of the three modes, so in effect you've got 15 possible commands, plus the left/right mouse buttons and scroll wheel.

What kind of macros can you program? Whatever you want provided it's a keystroke or a mouse click (plus a few hotkey commands like volume, media controls etc.)

The scroll wheel doesn't tilt though.
 
What about the issue when the mouse is lifted and placed back down it jumps the cursor to the lower right? I have tested 3 logitech mice that do not have this problem and believe it to be a problem as I tend to lift the mouse over and over during my game.
 
I do not lift my mouse nor have I ever, and I still had my cursor move up and to the right when I click on anything.
 
Sphere said:
I do not lift my mouse nor have I ever, and I still had my cursor move up and to the right when I click on anything.
Click to expand...

Wow, i did not even think this was an issue, until i tested this out myself, i'm uploading the video i took right now, it's a video from a panasonic lumix at hd on a tripod and it's the first time i ever recorded and upload a video. I used gimp (the image software) because it shows a grid pattern.
i used my death adder ver1 at 1800 dpi and i used the color red

then i switched to the cyborg (you'll notice the third light is selected for dpi, BUT i used the software to configure that for 1800 dpi to be the same dpi as the death adder for testing purposes) at the same 1800 dpi and i switched to the color blue (thats why you see me moving the mouse around)

You can probably not hear me click, but you can see my index finger twitch, it's a lot of clicks for both models.

I am testing both of these mice on a lian li case, ok it's not a mouse pad but it's a brushed alumumin case, can we all just agree that it's the same testing surface, and lian li makes a nice brushed aluminin?

again, I am not trying to berate this mouse as much as I can, i want it to work out, cuz i like the ergonomics, in fact i like it so much that i ordered a new 50$ mouse pad to work with it. But i did not know how bad it was until i read this comment and i had to test it out for myself.

program used was gimp
it was used to show grids
red was for death adder
blue was for rat
both mice were configured for 1800 dpi (the setting i use all the time for my death adder for the past 5 years)

the death adder is considered a very old mouse, but i don't believe anyone can refute that the death adder has a great sensor ?(even if you hate razer for support or wierd firmware nuking the mouse).

I did not count my clicks per mouse, but i believe i did enough for the test, it showed that massive clicking (i would say i click at least 5x a second) on a death adder move the mouse pointer almost zero (it moved maybe 1mm)

while, the blue line represented by the cyborg rat moved 10mm or so in the direction of the bottom right.

Again i know ppl won't take a word of mouth, so i'm showing proof, uploading for the first time ever on youtube, this is to illustrate what some ppl have said about mouse moving w/o even picking up the mouse (i did not even know this was an issue really until i read this comment from Sphere).

Anyone can replicate this test, the reason i'm testing this against a death adder is b/c it's my mouse for the past 4-5 years no other reason.

the testing for the death adder begins at around the 10s mark and ends in 10s or so

the testing for the rat begins at around 40s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbinkRoWrRY

i don't know how to enable those cool 720 settings tho? i'll try another upload later if i can figure it out.
 
Lanx said:
program used was gimp
it was used to show grids
red was for death adder
blue was for rat
both mice were configured for 1800 dpi
Click to expand...
interesting, which Windows version? what setting for the pointer speed? enhance pointer precision on or off?

I just tried to duplicate your demo using my Razer Imperator (twin-eye sensor) tried at 3200dpi & 1800dpi. Looks like your Deathadder i.e. very steady and the pointer only moves the odd pixel from the target. I use Windows 7 64bit, speed at 6/11 (neutral) and 5/11. Enhanced precision off.

EDIT: so the twin eye sensor is OK on my Imperator (though it still has the lift-off twitch) If the sensor is the reason for the movement while clicking, then perhaps firmware will fix it? I suppose there could be a mechanical problem with R.A.T. but I'm pretty sure i've seen complaints about other mouses twitchy movement while clicking
 
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WorldExclusive said:
I would never by a MadCatz product. Ever since the late 90s MadCatz has been pushing crap console controllers so I wouldn't expect anything different from their PC components. I almost never vent about a company, but MadCatz really burned me back then. Used my allowance for a new PlayStation controller in the 90s and it did everything but operate the game.
Click to expand...

My experience has always been that the Mad Catz, or furthermore anyone but the console OEM tends to produce controllers that aren't on par with the originals. As for mice I've found Logitech mice to be the best fit for me in both ergonomics and quality. The Microsoft mice are OK, but they aren't really my style. I've had issues with them from time to time. As for this mouse, it looks good on paper but the comments in this thread have me thinking twice about trying one unless I can get it for next to nothing. I have no desire to pay $100 or near $100 for a mouse that I might end up chucking at the wall or taking to the firing range for a good old fashioned execution.
 
IanM said:
interesting, which Windows version? what setting for the pointer speed? enhance pointer precision on or off?

I just tried to duplicate your demo using my Razer Imperator (twin-eye sensor) tried at 3200dpi & 1800dpi. Looks like your Deathadder i.e. only moves the odd pixel from the target. I use Windows 7, speed at 6/11 (neutral) and 5/11. Enhanced precision off.
Click to expand...

what couldn't you replicate? the non movement of the death adder?
my settings are stock, since i just reformatted my computer b/c that was the only way to get these r.a.t. drivers to work. (i really wanted to test out the mouse)
so
win7 64| 6/11| no precision
(never even opened the mouse settings, i hate configuring those settings and only configure from the software provided by the mouse manufacturer in the sys tray i.e. razer or cyborg)
 
Lanx said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbinkRoWrRY
Click to expand...

I had this exact problem with the CM Storm Sentinel (among a few others with the sensor). I like the Madcatz guy in here trying to tell us that the Twineye isn't a piece of shit, then the good testers come riding in with the empirical proof that it IS a piece of shit.

And then a lot of people buy the mouse anyway because it looks cool, and I lose faith in humanity all over again.
 
Lanx said:
what couldn't you replicate? the non movement of the death adder?
Click to expand...
I couldn't replicate the bad/glitchy movement of the R.A.T.

Imperator utilises the evil twin eye, but repeatedly clicking in quick sucession has the mouse pointer holding steady as per the old DeathAdder. Maybe that gives some hope for the R.A.T. to be improved with firmware updates?
 
Mad Catz Rich said:
1. Trust me, the twin eye is not a cheap sensor.
2. That's a fair point but again, no one ever mentioned this as an issue in testing - we can only change the things that we know are an issue! It's easily addressed though so we will.
3. There is a grip washer in that mechanism that does a very good job of keeping it secure.

Not disputing your right to have opinions at all - we welcome them, as I said - but I have to respond to the assertion that you're giving up sensor quality, solid drivers and build quality oversight:

1. The Twin Eye is a good sensor
2. Have you had any issues with the drivers since your reinstall? (and please note the others that have reported no issues at all)
3. A lot of people oversaw this mouse - including some very public hands-on time at the Intel Extreme Masters event at CeBIT in March where we had many thousands of the public playing on our stand over the week - so when I say it didn't get reported as a problem in testing, this wasn't from a small sample of people.
Click to expand...
responding to part 1
1. I have already uploaded a basic video disproving this claim vs. a 4 year old mouse (a good mouse)
2. I cannot believe you actually tested this mouse for this long and no one ever brought up "hey there are 3 pinky options with this thing, and i guess if you look at the bottom of the mouse on one of these pinky options there's no teflon coating... gee not like it won't make the mouse flush/plumb"
It is impossible not to notice this, unless the testers are the most basic of computer users that do not test hardware. Does this sound harsh? it does considering this is the top 3 most expensive wired mouse on the market and you "claim" it has been tested by people who obviously just see a $100 price point mouse and say "oh it's good, release it to the public" when the forum has already pointed out so many oddities with a $100 mouse, do not make the public beta test for you, i didn't spend $100 to beta test.
3. Then the washer is trash, i just did another basic test, i pulled the thumb all the way out and tightened it with the included tool(i could just use a L hex tool and use that to further tighted since that has more torque) within human reason of using a thumb and index finger. I then measured the spread with a digital micrometer and zero'd it. I then pressed the sniper button (the red button) 100x and it moved .22mm in. While it is not a drastic result it is the lower limits of using the thumb just to press a button, what if a user, uses a strong "claw gripe" or likes to control excessively with the thumb and pinky? then i would imagine it would be moved further in (i cannot really test this, since that is a bit of difference between everyone and i only measured 100x button presses which is pretty basic of pressure needed to activate a button).

part 2.
1. i have video showing otherwise, i'd like to see a counter video on a rat.
2. i cannot use this mouse in my "daily routine" since i'm waiting on the 50$ mouse pad i ordered from newegg that i had to order in order to make this mouse work. So no i cannot test out the drivers.
3. your at an event when ppl go, "oh cool something new! let me play with it" they did not test it out for you, they "played with it" there is a difference between people "playing with something" and "testing out" something which i assume is the difference between those people and me, since i have tried to test this mouse out from the very beginning. I bought this mouse (well fiance but same money, same household!) then i had to buy a $50 mousepad to work with it(that was all me), so I already have a $150 vested interest over people who say "oh cool new toy let me play!!!"

Please do not make a counter-statement to something to the extent of, "well i did not have to buy a $50 mousepad, i could use any less priced mouse pad and it would work fine". That to me would just make it seem like a political statement.

Recognize that one objective user is worth more than a few thousand people who saw something "shiney" at some event.

Again, i'm a supporter of this mouse, i don't know how much i can say this i've waited 6 months for it, It is a great ergonomic mouse, but has an extremely poor sensor, poor driver support and has been severly un-tested that i would call this a beta mouse.

I care about ergonomics, i've posted on this forum my setup, it includes a 700$ ergohuman chair (i think even kyle uses the same chair from a video), i use a dual wall mounted monitor setup that costs $300 and a have a wall mounted keyboard tray that retails for $200, and i'm currently trying to build an ergonomic microsoft 4000 with mechanical cherry browns (i have pics here and at geekhack). So yes i care about ergonomics, i believe this is the most ergonomic mouse available, it just has a low quality sensor, low quality drivers/software and low quality design/construction.
 
I may try one of these when and if it hits a local store. That way I can return it if I hate it. Though I have to ask, why didn't they just use the same laser/sensor that Logitech uses for the G9x? Why reinvent the wheel?
 
Mad Catz Rich said:
As regards the lift issue with the Philips Twin Eye sensor obviously at high DPI settings any movement will be exacerbated but there's no reason at all that a high DPI user should be lifting their mouse!
Click to expand...

Many gamers including myself prefer to lift and reposition their mouse during gaming. Saying "well there is no reason they should be doing that because we crammed 5600DPI into it" is not an excuse. This is a fatal flaw of the phillips sensor that no other sensor shares, optical or laser. Razer even admitted it and released a firmware to attempt to fix the problem on their lot of mice that share the same sensor.

On January 14th i sent you guys an email and a warning about the sensor that I knew you were putting in the mouse. :

Hello, I am very interested in the new upcoming cyborg R.A.T. series of gaming mice. Can you please forward this information to the people that develop the firmware for your mouse.

It is obvious that the R.A.T 7 and 9 use the Phillips twin eye 5600DPI sensor. But there is a huge game ruining issue with this sensor that is currently present in other mice that share the same sensor (Razer Imperator and the CM Storm Sentinel). When you lift the mouse off the mouse pad the cursor will always move down and to the right, this ruins the game because the movement wrecks your aim. I made a video of my Razer Imperator compared to my G500 to show this problem.

PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE THIS. take this message seriously and attempt to fix this sensor related problem because i really want to purchase the R.A.T 9 when it becomes available, but not of it still has this problem.
Click to expand...

I got this reply :
Hi,
I forwarded your email to our product management department and hopefully they see it in time. Thanks for the email.
Click to expand...

Now half a year later I find out that you guys totally ignored the problem and are trying to sweep it under the rug by saying that your customer is using the mouse wrong by lifting and repositioning. If you take 10 minutes to watch some professional quake/cs players you will notice that they lift and reposition very frequently. For a drastic example, Cypher playing quake: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-pW6A9F7nI&annotation_id=annotation_871383&feature=iv

Can you imagine this professional playing with a twin eye sensor? Add this to the horrible surface compatibility and click jitter and you want to call this a gaming mouse? The sensor is the most important part of the mouse and this sensor does not belong in a gaming mouse.

Because of this I will not be buying one. I am very disappointed to say the least :(.
 
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Yeah not being able to lift the mouse is a deal breaker. I'm not a low sensitivity gamer by any means but I do lift the mouse occasionally to reposition it.
 
IanM said:
I couldn't replicate the bad/glitchy movement of the R.A.T.

Imperator utilises the evil twin eye, but repeatedly clicking in quick sucession has the mouse pointer holding steady as per the old DeathAdder. Maybe that gives some hope for the R.A.T. to be improved with firmware updates?
Click to expand...

No, it's because you don't have a R.a.t. you have a razer(high quality), this only happens on the rat.

So reading IanM's post i decided to test out why the rat moved and the razor imperator did not, and i have the answer, again why am I testing this? this should have long been done b4 it was put out to the public.

So the reason why it skips when click is because of the thumb adjust issue on the rat. if you actually use the thumb adjustment and tighten the thumb part, the rat now becomes UNplumb/ UNflush and it now becomes wobbly, because i guess when you tighten it, the thumb part presses down vertically and makes the rat lift like 0.5mm up on the thumbside.

you can test this out too, loose the thumb adjustment (so that it freely moves left and right) and your rat will be plumb/flush against the pad.

So i have a solution, don't tighten the thumb adjustment and leave it loose, this way you'll always have a flush/plumb mouse and it won't skip, because when it does become unflush/unplumb it wobbles with every click and there is your z-axis problem.

This couldn't have been tested before it was released to the public?


video inc soon again, i had to do this outside b/c it was getting dark (for natural sunlight) so i put the frosted glass on a table (plumb/flush mouse pad) and you can see it more clearly illustrated this way.
tighten the thumb adjustment and now your rat is not plumb/flush anymore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkoeSFLy7Ak
 
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Just wondering if Rich could elaborate on what brands of mouse pads were tested and if there are any suggestions on the one... or ones that worked the best. I'm thinking of getting a new pad. and want to avoid the buy and toss routine, and go right to one that is a good bet from the get go.
 
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