Crossfire or Misfire?

Crossfire or Misfire

  • Crossfire

    Votes: 75 16.7%

  • Misfire

    Votes: 373 83.3%
  • Total voters
    448
why did ATI even waste time on this backfire thing with the x850???? isnt the x1800 (greatest card since sliced bread) coming out for review next week???? I just dont get it??? But then again I'm sorta stupid.....maybe it was just to give you boys something to argue about.....again, one side has a tangable object....SLI, the other side has a demo that only reviewers can touch and see.....and are waiting to be lead to the promised land by the almighty r520......huh????? All I hear is .....just you wait.....I love my SLI. :D good evening,boys.
 
Shifra said:
not unless you're retarded. Anyone on these boards no matter what they prefer, given the option between 2x X850 or 2x 7800GTX/GT knows what they'd pick.

The question is why is there people justifying the comparison, especially on this board where its suppose to be full of enthusiasts. The answer given is nothing short of stupid. Theres no comparison between the cards, anyone here would know what they'd pick, so please stop comparing them, they're not equals. There is no question which one is better.

The same goes for comparing an X800Pro to an 5800U or a 9700 to a GF4. Cost is nothing, performance is everything. They're very different performance wise.
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The point of this thread is crossfire, not the x850xt. The comparison between the x850xt and the 7800 is due to the price point. I don't know how else to put it. You could decide to go either way with a dual card setup. I know which way I would go, and it seems like you know which way you would go, but that doesn't mean there isn't a comparison. Everyone knows they are not equals, thats why there is a comparison to be made. I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say, but the discussion is about crossfire scalabiility, feasibility, etc.. of the current and next-gen cards.
 
Jima13 said:
no thanks, not relavent to the post I replied to...
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Whats relevant is Toms compared the xfire results to an invalid SLI result taken from some earlier messed up review where Tom tried to make people believe the SLI was actually slower than the non-SLI.


In otherwords, Toms hardware is trickery biased to the company paying him to make them look better.
 
BBA said:
Whats relevant is Toms compared the xfire results to an invalid SLI result taken from some earlier messed up review where Tom tried to make people believe the SLI was actually slower than the non-SLI.


In otherwords, Toms hardware is trickery biased to the company paying him to make them look better.
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lol...I always thought it was because they're just stupid...
 
Talonz said:
The point of this thread is crossfire, not the x850xt. The comparison between the x850xt and the 7800 is due to the price point. I don't know how else to put it. You could decide to go either way with a dual card setup. I know which way I would go, and it seems like you know which way you would go, but that doesn't mean there isn't a comparison. Everyone knows they are not equals, thats why there is a comparison to be made. I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say, but the discussion is about crossfire scalabiility, feasibility, etc.. of the current and next-gen cards.
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My point is simple, using price is not the goal of some people here, its very blatent. In the Hardocp review the focused on running the X850s againt 6800s, the 7800s were thrown in to show what new tech does compare to ATI and Nvidias previous (i realize this can be word picked, please dont, 1 week). Some people choose to ignore it simply to crapify crossfire. the features actually looked very solid, and installation, although more complex, is hardly anything we here can complain about for a 1 time thing. If you can do the rest of your PC, you can install CrossFire no problem.

Using 7800GT/GTX or SLI 7800 for comparison against X850 crossfire because of price proves about as much as me using the 5900U to compare against a single X850, since they're about the same price. I realize thats the best ATI has, and as such you try to justify the comparison to the best Nvidia has, but it makes no sense. In the end it will be R520 -> G70, not R480 -> G70. When you compare cards you compare what it directly compares too. An R480 is no match for a G70 so you dont compare it. Just like we dont forever compare a GF4 to an R300. When its R300 its awlays FX, even though it launched something like 7 months later.

We should be comparing price/performance/features of the 6800 series to these CrossFire reviews, and that should be the only goal, as it was in EVERY review. So why is this thread different? Its populated by people who are bias toward Nvidia, simple. Once again, i guess im bias toward ATI for having an open mind and not agreeing with the brainless bashing and pairing of hardware.

If ATI launched the R580 months ahead of the G80 and the G70 couldnt hold a candle to the R580s performance im not going to spout how shitty the G70 is in comparison to the R580 all of a sudden, what sense does that make? Its SUPPOSE to be worse by the rules of succession we have been following, pointing that out is idiotic.

Limited resolution/refresh, stupid as hell. installation, i personally wont complain, its a one time thing how many times do you need to fiddle with it? I'd rather have this then the initial switching cards and jumper blocks we had when SLI launched, that was annoying as hell. Especially when SLI needed to be disabled to run in apps. Thank god thats all fixed.

However CrossFire and its features do infact look solid, very solid. Improvments will come but thats to be expected, alot of drama in here over it to be honost.
 
Shifra said:
My point is simple, using price is not the goal of some people here, its very blatent. In the Hardocp review the focused on running the X850s againt 6800s, the 7800s were thrown in to show what new tech does compare to ATI and Nvidias previous (i realize this can be word picked, please dont, 1 week). Some people choose to ignore it simply to crapify crossfire. the features actually looked very solid, and installation, although more complex, is hardly anything we here can complain about for a 1 time thing. If you can do the rest of your PC, you can install CrossFire no problem.

Using 7800GT/GTX or SLI 7800 for comparison against X850 crossfire because of price proves about as much as me using the 5900U to compare against a single X850, since they're about the same price. I realize thats the best ATI has, and as such you try to justify the comparison to the best Nvidia has, but it makes no sense. In the end it will be R520 -> G70, not R480 -> G70. When you compare cards you compare what it directly compares too. An R480 is no match for a G70 so you dont compare it. Just like we dont forever compare a GF4 to an R300. When its R300 its awlays FX, even though it launched something like 7 months later.

We should be comparing price/performance/features of the 6800 series to these CrossFire reviews, and that should be the only goal, as it was in EVERY review. So why is this thread different? Its populated by people who are bias toward Nvidia, simple. Once again, i guess im bias toward ATI for having an open mind and not agreeing with the brainless bashing and pairing of hardware.

If ATI launched the R580 months ahead of the G80 and the G70 couldnt hold a candle to the R580s performance im not going to spout how shitty the G70 is in comparison to the R580 all of a sudden, what sense does that make? Its SUPPOSE to be worse by the rules of succession we have been following, pointing that out is idiotic.

Limited resolution/refresh, stupid as hell. installation, i personally wont complain, its a one time thing how many times do you need to fiddle with it? I'd rather have this then the initial switching cards and jumper blocks we had when SLI launched, that was annoying as hell. Especially when SLI needed to be disabled to run in apps. Thank god thats all fixed.

However CrossFire and its features do infact look solid, very solid. Improvments will come but thats to be expected, alot of drama in here over it to be honost.
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All good points. My opinion is that we should all step away from the x850 vs ANY nvidia card and just look at performance increases due to crossfire itself. Comparing it to SLI, like the [H] did is what we should be doing. I agree that no one really cares about the performance of a dual x850 setup vs an nvidia setup, as nvidia clearly has the upper hand in the marketplace as of now in performance and value leader. Crossfire looks like it scales well, and as many have already said, lets see what R520 can offer with and without Crossfire.
 
Shifra said:
My point is simple, using price is not the goal of some people here, its very blatent. In the Hardocp review the focused on running the X850s againt 6800s, the 7800s were thrown in to show what new tech does compare to ATI and Nvidias previous (i realize this can be word picked, please dont, 1 week). Some people choose to ignore it simply to crapify crossfire. the features actually looked very solid, and installation, although more complex, is hardly anything we here can complain about for a 1 time thing. If you can do the rest of your PC, you can install CrossFire no problem.

Using 7800GT/GTX or SLI 7800 for comparison against X850 crossfire because of price proves about as much as me using the 5900U to compare against a single X850, since they're about the same price. I realize thats the best ATI has, and as such you try to justify the comparison to the best Nvidia has, but it makes no sense. In the end it will be R520 -> G70, not R480 -> G70. When you compare cards you compare what it directly compares too. An R480 is no match for a G70 so you dont compare it. Just like we dont forever compare a GF4 to an R300. When its R300 its awlays FX, even though it launched something like 7 months later.

We should be comparing price/performance/features of the 6800 series to these CrossFire reviews, and that should be the only goal, as it was in EVERY review. So why is this thread different? Its populated by people who are bias toward Nvidia, simple. Once again, i guess im bias toward ATI for having an open mind and not agreeing with the brainless bashing and pairing of hardware.

If ATI launched the R580 months ahead of the G80 and the G70 couldnt hold a candle to the R580s performance im not going to spout how shitty the G70 is in comparison to the R580 all of a sudden, what sense does that make? Its SUPPOSE to be worse by the rules of succession we have been following, pointing that out is idiotic.

Limited resolution/refresh, stupid as hell. installation, i personally wont complain, its a one time thing how many times do you need to fiddle with it? I'd rather have this then the initial switching cards and jumper blocks we had when SLI launched, that was annoying as hell. Especially when SLI needed to be disabled to run in apps. Thank god thats all fixed.

However CrossFire and its features do infact look solid, very solid. Improvments will come but thats to be expected, alot of drama in here over it to be honost.
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I don't know whether Brent Justice posted in this thread or in another thread, but he said that the best available should be compared to eachother regardless on where they stand in terms of "generations". Meaning, if you go to a store and see a Crossfire card next to a 7800 GTX, which would you get? Just think of it that way because that's a more real-world experience that you and everyone else will see.

Also, it's not uncommon to compare the last gen vs. new gen. It's just been a long while since ATI released something before nVidia. I mean take a look at this [H] review in 2002. They compared a 9700 to a GF4TI. Would you say "OMG that's just not fair! They're from 2 completely different generations! Wait for the GFFX series." or would you say "Well, that's what was available at the time right, so why not?"?

When the r520 models come out, you'll get your "fair comparison", and whoever comes after that, you'll get your "unfair comparison", unless its ATI :rolleyes:.

In other words, are you saying that ATI JUST NOW released new hardware to compete with OLD and OUTDATED technology?
 
Yoshiyuki Blade said:
I don't know whether Brent Justice posted in this thread or in another thread, but he said that the best available should be compared to eachother regardless on where they stand in terms of "generations". Meaning, if you go to a store and see a Crossfire card next to a 7800 GTX, which would you get? Just think of it that way because that's a more real-world experience that you and everyone else will see.

Also, it's not uncommon to compare the last gen vs. new gen. It's just been a long while since ATI released something before nVidia. I mean take a look at this [H] review in 2002. They compared a 9700 to a GF4TI. Would you say "OMG that's just not fair! They're from 2 completely different generations! Wait for the GFFX series." or would you say "Well, that's what was available at the time right, so why not?"?

When the r520 models come out, you'll get your "fair comparison", and whoever comes after that, you'll get your "unfair comparison", unless its ATI :rolleyes:.

In other words, are you saying that ATI JUST NOW released new hardware to compete with OLD and OUTDATED technology?
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The high end last gen is always included in benchmarks where they want to note differences in IQ and increases in performance from card to card. In your link, as i actually previously noted, i dont believe there was an FX card out to compare the 9700 to at the time, so they used that. But at that time, and today, we dont think of pairing the R300 vs a GF4 in any way since they're seperate cards and pretty radical in how they differ.

Again you arent reading me, i said if ATI did the same thing, i'd be the same way. I would not directly compare a card released 1 year later by a company to one released 1 year previous and start shouting how much one sucks compared to the other, its a no brainer and shouldnt need to be pointed out. We should look past all of that and strictly at features, and feature wise, again i think CrossFire looks fantastic. Although i wont be buying it, its definitly a contender against SLI once we get a card that operates hand in hand with it correctly.

ATI did just now release hardware that i guess you can consider old and outdated, but so what. 1 week from now no ones going to care how well an X850 did in CrossFire. All the major limitations of CrossFire can be blamed on the cards and drivers. Drivers will mature, the cards will as well very soon. The main goal i believe of review sites getting these packages was to show off CrossFire's capabilities, which it does, but some people cant seem to look past a few short comings that will hopefully be eliminated by its successor.

refresh/max resolution lock is the only downfall i read in that whole review, everything else i'd call cosmetics. The cards scaled well, the AA looks great, the IQ didnt explode, the support seems to be there. They simply worked.
 
I find it almost laughable that right now 18% of the people who have voted would/will go out and buy this. I mean seriously people, if you want to spend $500 on something that is already outdated and unupgradeable you really need to reconsider, it really is nuts. ATI's new card should be available within the next couple of months.

If you have $500+ just lying around burning a whole in your pocket, GO BUY A DECENT MONITOR. Heck, for just around $150 you can get a brand new 19" CRT that can produce 2048x1536 @ 60Hz.

I almost feel like these people didn't read the reviews. This is like upgrading from a x800XTPE to a x850XTPE and just throwing away the first card.

I could understand saying Crossfire tech is good and should be implemented properly with the x1x00 series, but that isn't what this poll is about. The poll is about its current implementation.
 
Shifra said:
The high end last gen is always included in benchmarks where they want to note differences in IQ and increases in performance from card to card. In your link, as i actually previously noted, i dont believe there was an FX card out to compare the 9700 to at the time, so they used that. But at that time, and today, we dont think of pairing the R300 vs a GF4 in any way since they're seperate cards and pretty radical in how they differ.
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Well, as Kyle mentioned the article I linked, he threw in the GF4 just for kicks to get a ballpark idea of how the new tech was going to compare. I think that, when they included the 7800 GTX into the mix, it was kind of the same thing. The only difference was that the differences weren't so radical from eachother, whereas bringing in the 7800 GTX SLi would.

Shifra said:
Again you arent reading me, i said if ATI did the same thing, i'd be the same way. I would not directly compare a card released 1 year later by a company to one released 1 year previous and start shouting how much one sucks compared to the other, its a no brainer and shouldnt need to be pointed out. We should look past all of that and strictly at features, and feature wise, again i think CrossFire looks fantastic. Although i wont be buying it, its definitly a contender against SLI once we get a card that operates hand in hand with it correctly.
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Well all I can say is that I hope you mean that. I apologize for assuming. But the thing is, even if Crossfire has some nice features of its own, it still lacks technology that the 6800s had.

Shifra said:
ATI did just now release hardware that i guess you can consider old and outdated, but so what. 1 week from now no ones going to care how well an X850 did in CrossFire. All the major limitations of CrossFire can be blamed on the cards and drivers. Drivers will mature, the cards will as well very soon. The main goal i believe of review sites getting these packages was to show off CrossFire's capabilities, which it does, but some people cant seem to look past a few short comings that will hopefully be eliminated by its successor.
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What I wonder is why exactly did ATI market Crossfire at this point in time? Overall, I'm glad the ATI released SOMETHING to compete with SLi in the first place, but did they really have to spend that much more money to actually bring it into their "old" cards when their own next-gen is right around the corner? ATI managed to beat out a competitor that nVidia already moved away from months ago, and that's just about it. The only people that they'll be fooling are the uninformed with lots of cash. There aren't enough of those in the enthusiast market, and the enthusiast market is pretty small as it is. It's nice that they're starting somewhere and all, but trying to make a profit at the same time seems to be the mistake in all this.

Shifra said:
refresh/max resolution lock is the only downfall i read in that whole review, everything else i'd call cosmetics. The cards scaled well, the AA looks great, the IQ didnt explode, the support seems to be there. They simply worked.
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Well different people put different things in first priority. You for example seem put IQ first; correct me if I'm wrong. Other people look at max framerate, new graphical features, max resolution, ease of use, etc, but I think most people look at price. I also think that's where most of the difference is. Not only is the 7800 GTX priced extremely well at the moment, but it performs on par with the current Crossfire setup, includes new tech that's actually a generation old now, is easier to install, widely available, and can be upgraded to SLi in the future (depending if you have the mobo or not but that also applies to Crossfire). This is all possible right now.

I think what you mean is that Crossfire itself is good, and I agree to an extent. It just needs to get some issues flattened out for the next generation. But the fact of the matter is that it's not doing well right now. These cards are going to stick around for a while, and people are going to be fooled into getting it when they can get something that's just straight-out better in nearly all aspects. And we're talking about 1 card, which is far from overkill.
 
I voted Crossfire and here is why.
Clearly the technology works so far. It gives decent performance and the only real "WTF" is the 1600x1200@60fuckingeyegouging hz.
I, personally have faith that ATI will fix the 1600x1200@60fuckingeyegouging hz problem soon. IF they don't they have a problem, as i and many others won't be going xfire.

Overall i think it's a decent launch because it does work, and it does increase performance. I also think the price of these "master" cards will drop significantly as they NEED to do. I think in 2 months a X850 master card will be in the 200-250 range. It needs to be in that range.
The Xpress200 chipset is a huge success and it is a worthy competitor for the Nforce 4. Hell, it may turn out to be better, it's almost there now ffs.

For someone on an nforce 4 ultra chipset like me with an X850XT it wouldn't be smart to jump out and buy a xfire mobo and x850 master card even if it could be done for 300.
If prices go down as i assume they will it would be halfway viable for someone building a new lower end system to get a xfire ready mobo and simply an x800pro or whatever and later get the mastercard to double their performance, just like some pre-planed for SLI. I think the price of the mastercards will be significantly lower than people are expecting. ATI already dropped the MSRP of the x850xt master card to 350. I expect, again, for it to be on the street around 250. The lower end master card needs to be under or right at 200 bucks.
Either way, SLI'ing those old cards makes no sense no matter how it's pieced together. What is important is that the tech works and there is only one significant problem. That 1600x1200@60fuckingeyegouging hz problem.

Again, i bet that the xfired x1800's will NOT have that problem and the X1800 are the cards that Xfire should be used for. Since the tech works well with only one problem i have to vote Crossfire. How it performs (and it does alright overall) with the x8xx series is irrelevent. What matters is that the tech just works. The only way i could consider this a missfire is if the 1600x1200@60fuckingeyegouging hz problem isn't fixed with the x1800 and the x1800 Xfire is murdered by the 7800GTX SLI.
 
Proxy said:
Personally I think, ATI pulled an nVidia ... Back when nVidia released the FX cards *cough* 5800 *cough* I do think that it is a little sad that one 7800 GTX can keep up with CrossFire.
-Proxy
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This is night and day compared to the 5700. One was 7 months late, had issues running the PS2.0 shaders and had to cheat in beachmarks to keep up with the r300. If the R520 prefromance flops then maybe it will be close, but all indications are that the R520 will be as fast if not faster plus add some new features. Your also forgetting that one 7800gtx can keep up with two 6800U sli...but thats not sad?


Yoshiyuki Blade said:
What I wonder is why exactly did ATI market Crossfire at this point in time?
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From what I have heard its more a launch for the motherboad than for the x800 graphics cards. Anandtech seems to liked the mobo..


Talonz said:
Because if you have $700 to spend on a dual graphics card system, you will be looking at 2x 7800 cards vs 2x X850XTs, not 2 X850XTs and 2 6800Us.
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I think one point that every one is missing is you dont HAVE to by 2 of anything with xfire. The whole reason for the 60hz limit was to allow you to use your EXSISTING x800 card. Once you add in the $100 cupon from ATI then your are getting into an area that does not make it sound that bad. Granted the 7800gt is still the better buy. And as I said before anyone that though two 850 would ever beat at 7800gt needs some serrious help!

I agree with some here, that xfire did do its job. It took a single 850 and made it run as faster or faster in most cases then the 6800U. And for the issues it had, it still shows lots of potential to grow. I also agree that it did not make much (if any sense) for this gen, but the tech seems to have some things going for it....

Now I hear that the R520 launch probaly will not have xfire as ATI seems to be working to correct some issues/limitations with xfire (pointed out in reviews)...wanna guess which ones :) :)
 
Now everyone is apologizing for the fact that the technology is late to the dance....
this is humorous.
So do you guys really think you would go out and buy this, right now????(If you could....because I still havent seen any for sale) Ive seen one guy argue it could make a nice "low-end" system.....
Ive seen one guy argue that you dont have to buy two cards.....just use some coupon...you still need a MB(that you cant buy) and a "master" (that you cant buy) are they gonna give out coupons forever???? No. When the x1800 comes out you WILL need two fast cards to gain the same performance as the GTX/GT or whatever nVidia comes up with next.....
Guys let go of this.....first of all it is a paper release.....you cant get it anywhere.....
What you have available is last years product that might be as good as a 6800 Ultra in SLI. Im sorry but its been done.....and currently done better by the other company.....who is so far ahead I dont think this backfire will ever catch up.....
but I could be wrong...... I'll just have to WAIT.
 
^
Everything you said their is true.
I will list what I like about Cross Fire and what I dont like.

Pros
-Looks to have some good Performance scaling even on Hardware not intentionly designed for its use.
-More flexible GPU structure allows for more options which is never a bad choice.
-Cross Fire on the X1x00 Series of cards allows for higher resolutions and HZ rates.
http://as1.emv2.com/I?X=7d1f85b49fc...9f6703de2e0d1cc
-Cross Fire has Supper AA Modes that look Fantastic

Cons
- X8x0 Series Cross Fire has horrible Monitor Limitations
-X8x0 Series Cross Fire has no support for SM3.0 or FP32 along with other wonderful tech.
-X8x0 Series Cross Fire has a horrible Price to Performance Ratio.


If you notice my cons are directed to acertain type of Cross Fire, one for a certain series of Cards.
Take this Cross Fire with a grain of salt I assure you that it will get better down the road now that ATis new hardware will have a dual GPU infastructure built from the Get go inside its hardware. Also I would never buy X8x0 Series Cross Fire because in short it sucks. Its a testament to the skill of ATi Engineers though.
 
Above all there remains the overriding issue, ATI requiring us to go buy a Crossfire motherboard ALSO in order to use this abortion.

If they hit the ground running with the Crossfire video cards being able to run on ANY SLI/Cfire motherboard, then maybe, just maybe it would be a "late but tolerable" thing.

Requiring us to not only go get a "special" master card but also a new, and as yet unknown quantity, ATI based motherboard.

I KNOW my DFI NF4 SLI-DR is rock solid, and gets the maximum performance out of my A64 3700+ and my 4x512M UTT-CH ram (250Mhzx11, 2T, 7,2,2,2.0) and the DFI bios has all the timing/voltage controls needed to dial in anyhting I throw at it.

Any ATI motherboard has one hell of a HUMP to get over, as it must BETTER the DFI NF4 before I'd even look at it.

All ATI has done is push me in the direction of getting NVidia video cards, rather than 2 R520's ultimately.

Not that my current system running AArmy/FarCry/HL2 isnt actually as fast as I need, requiring NO CHANGE today. But thinking into the future, its not a "RED" future as I see it.

But the thing that REALLY CHAPS MY ASS is the fact that ANY (2) x16 PCIe equiped motherboard from any manufacturer is ALL that is needed to support SLI or CFire. The only "requirement" for ATI based or NVidia based is purely in thier respective DRIVER sw, and it is ONLY to be annoying to support thier "marketing" BS.

I call for a BOYCOTT of both companies until they knock off this artifical bullshit and treat consumers/enthusiasts with some RESPECT.

I might have still considered getting 2 R520's if ATI had just come right out and made CFire operate on ANYONE's SLI motherboard. Simply leaving OUT the selfish manufacturer only coding in their driver. ATI needs to face the FACT that NVidia has had motherboards shipping for MONTHS and a huge installed base.... hundreds of THOUSANDS of enthusiasts, have already moved on to these boards as thier system foundation.

Frankly, ATI's stockholders should be filing suit, for obvious incompetence, and violation of the faduciary responsibilities of the corporate officers to protect the stockholders investment. Deliberately sabotaging your product rollout with artificial barriers designed to limit market acceptance smells VERY FISHY.

Harkens back to the old Atari/Tramiel days when Atari would torpedo thier own product launches after huge periods of HYPE to manipulate stock prices.... all the while corporate officers were selling HIGH and buying LOW.... like $16 high and $.25 low... THREE TIMES in 5 years :D

I think Kyle and others who ATI respects should be making alot of NOISE on this to get them to wake up and knock off the BS. We are counting on you Kyle.
 
^
Ouch calm down man. They said before that they were working on getting Cross Fire onto SLi Boards. VIA has allowed them to implement Cross Fire on their Boards (Doesnt Matter since VIA kinda Sucks right now) and Intel as well (I think). I read an article about all this a while ago. None the less for me it will be much less painful since I have yet to buy any new boards other than my N Force 2 Board from years back.
 
xX_Jack_Carver_Xx said:
But the thing that REALLY CHAPS MY ASS is the fact that ANY (2) x16 PCIe equiped motherboard from any manufacturer is ALL that is needed to support SLI or CFire. The only "requirement" for ATI based or NVidia based is purely in thier respective DRIVER sw, and it is ONLY to be annoying to support thier "marketing" BS.

I call for a BOYCOTT of both companies until they knock off this artifical bullshit and treat consumers/enthusiasts with some RESPECT.
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Good point there, Carver.

However, nVidia makes the nf4 SLI chipset and ATI makes the Xp200 chipset. They want to put the buyer in a position to use their GPU's to go with their chipsets so they can make the most money.

However, ATI might have a bit more flexibity as far as compatibility (if this this holds true).

Ultimately, I would love to see nVidia and ATI both strip the stupid artificial requirements so the GPU cards can be used in any dual PCI-e slot motherboard.
 
DejaWiz said:
Ultimately, I would love to see nVidia and ATI both strip the stupid artificial requirements so the GPU cards can be used in any dual PCI-e slot motherboard.
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From a consumer point fo view it's great but also unrealistic
 
xX_Jack_Carver_Xx said:
But the thing that REALLY CHAPS MY ASS is the fact that ANY (2) x16 PCIe equiped motherboard from any manufacturer is ALL that is needed to support SLI or CFire. The only "requirement" for ATI based or NVidia based is purely in thier respective DRIVER sw, and it is ONLY to be annoying to support thier "marketing" BS.

I call for a BOYCOTT of both companies until they knock off this artifical bullshit and treat consumers/enthusiasts with some RESPECT.
Click to expand...
Actually, the upcoming 975x intel chipset is supposed to support both ATI & NVIDIA solutions.
 
SLI is the jewel in Nvidia's crown, don't expect ATI to come even close... well, until/if Nvidia really drops the ball---has happened before.
 
Shifra said:
not unless you're retarded. Anyone on these boards no matter what they prefer, given the option between 2x X850 or 2x 7800GTX/GT knows what they'd pick.

The question is why is there people justifying the comparison, especially on this board where its suppose to be full of enthusiasts. The answer given is nothing short of stupid. Theres no comparison between the cards, anyone here would know what they'd pick, so please stop comparing them, they're not equals. There is no question which one is better.

The same goes for comparing an X800Pro to an 5800U or a 9700 to a GF4. Cost is nothing, performance is everything. They're very different performance wise.
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When you go to buy something, you say "I have this much money", not "I have this much performance. You get the best you can buy, with what you have, that's what makes them competitio, and what puts ATi so far behind in this market right now
 
lol,

I'm just reading this thread... This is like, ATI vs Nvidia !!!!!! wars... I love it. Sorry, I just had to throw that in there...

Someone needs to mod HL2 deathmatch so we can have one team wearing Nvidia outfits and the other wears ATI and we can settle this once and for all....

(of course, whoever loses can't blame thier graphics card...)
 
jebo_4jc said:
Now that it's confirmed that the refresh rate limit won't affect R520....I'm voting for "Crossfire". I'm not saying I'd buy it today, but on October 6th, maybe I will!

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=958162
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So on October 6th you're going to be able to buy two x1800 cards and a brand new MB to go with them.....set them up and run your games..... or are you going to get to look at some pictures?????and have Toms Hardware show you some colored graphs at 800x600. Or better yet something in Chinese or Korean. I cant Wait. I also cant believe that the "master card" just couldnt be designed to translate higher resolutions and communicate that to the monitor. It looks like they just couldnt do it so then put out the backfire x800 edition.....To me what they are saying is.....this is the backfire x800 edition, we will fix this in our new x1800 backfire edition, but if you buy the x800 edition .....well your dongle thingy wont work with the x1800, and youll have to spend more money???? can you use TWO master cards????x850xt and x1800xt???? what a load of BS..... :D keep waiting.....
 
PRIME1 said:
Hvatum said:
Crossfire is awesome. ATI will put Nvidia out of business with it.

You know, they use it for the military and stuff so that means it must be really good.
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They use it in the military to torture terrorists by forcing them to watch games at 60hz.
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That's inhumane! I'm surprised Amnesty International isn't jumping on this one...
 
a year later than SLI (worst part)

does the same exact thing as SLI (improves performance anywhere from 0% to about 80%)

and a sloppy job (master/slave cards + dongle)

Then the fact that they still don't have their next gen card out is even worse. They should have put more energy in bringing r520 forward, instead of launching MissesDoubtFire. B/c I think most people are going to stick with 1 card solutions. Like if I want going to build a system. I might get an SLI mobo just in case.... but I would only plan on getting one 7800GTX. (at least for a while)
 
It was stressed quite some time ago after SLI came out that ATI's counter would hammer SLI because the red corner has already had years of experience with multiple card solutions.

If you were to compare what was hyped before, to what actually came out now, how's it been so far?
 
To all those that Voted "Misfire", I'm very disappointed in you! :eek:
Can you not remember all the SLI fuss when the Nforce4 came out?, crappy bridge cards, PCI-E power/connector(s) needs (back when PCI-E was first starting up, everything PCI-E was very pricey)
I see that ATi has waited, and come out with a better, ATi quality solution, that has potential to do huge amount more then it currently does.
I have seen a set of X700s in a beta machine that was value based, and would give a card/setup 2x the cost a run for its money in a general gaming solution, that Nvidia cannot match.

My next machine for late 2005/early 2006 WILL have some kind of Crossfire ready Mainboard and a Master/Ready video card.
 
lopoetve said:
When you go to buy something, you say "I have this much money", not "I have this much performance. You get the best you can buy, with what you have, that's what makes them competitio, and what puts ATi so far behind in this market right now
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you're confusing the hell out of me. Is this a forum for morons or an enthusiast forum? When people here ask questions about cards they ask what has the best performance per buck and get an answer from there. You're taking the question and applying to the average idiot in bestbuy; this is not an issue here. Stop bringing it up. Is this the bestbuy forum? If you post here you should have some idea of whats good and whats not.

a year later than SLI (worst part)
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Well are we talking about the paper launch of SLI? Cause physical cards/mobos werent available at retail until January, late January. That makes in just about 9 months. Then it took about 2 months for it work in more then 6 titles and 2 benchmarks, so thats ~7 months.

Can you favor Nvidia anymore when you cant even remember 1 fault with it let alone the correct release date? It really wasnt that long ago...the evolution of added features is all very new as well. Some people need to wake up.

dude CrossFire sucks hard, SLI has been out like a bajillion times longer and pwnzorz it HARD! ATI is teh suck with a un-l337 amount of problems omgz. they need to stops NOWZ. SLI 4 teh WIN! Missfire, blissfire backfire shitfire, Stolen Link Interface! KEKEKEKE ROFL I ROX
 
Shifra said:
you're confusing the hell out of me. Is this a forum for morons or an enthusiast forum? When people here ask questions about cards they ask what has the best performance per buck and get an answer from there. You're taking the question and applying to the average idiot in bestbuy; this is not an issue here. Stop bringing it up. Is this the bestbuy forum? If you post here you should have some idea of whats good and whats not.
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Excuse me? This is a forum for enthusiasts, or we'd be talking about the latest Intel accelerator. That doesn't change the fact that we have to BUY the parts that we're using, so thusly when you go to buy the parts you can, you compare at a price level. None of us have infinite supplies of money, so we budget what we have and find what we can get at that price level. Just as you would never compare a 6600GT to a X850 (because the price is so different), you DO compare the X850 to the 7800GT; they cost the same, yet one blows the other out of the water.

Performance per buck is done by comparing prices, buddy, which is the argument people have been making (and you've been valiantly fighting against, absurdly).
 
tornadotsunamilife said:
DejaWiz said:
Ultimately, I would love to see nVidia and ATI both strip the stupid artificial requirements so the GPU cards can be used in any dual PCI-e slot motherboard.
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From a consumer point fo view it's great but also unrealistic
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Yep, that pretty much what I said back in that very post:

DejaWiz said:
However, nVidia makes the nf4 SLI chipset and ATI makes the Xp200 chipset. They want to put the buyer in a position to use their GPU's to go with their chipsets so they can make the most money.
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:p :p :D
 
Shifra said:
Well are we talking about the paper launch of SLI? Cause physical cards/mobos werent available at retail until January, late January. That makes in just about 9 months. Then it took about 2 months for it work in more then 6 titles and 2 benchmarks, so thats ~7 months.

Can you favor Nvidia anymore when you cant even remember 1 fault with it let alone the correct release date? It really wasnt that long ago...the evolution of added features is all very new as well. Some people need to wake up.
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HardOCPs Review said:
It has been almost a four full months since ATI launched their ATI CrossFire technology. We wrote a preview of this technology way back on May 30 of 2005. This initial technology preview was very clearly a paper launch. Since that time, gamers and reviewers have been waiting with baited breath for a chance to get to use a CrossFire setup. That time has finally come nearly four months after we first heard about it. I believe it is important and fair to note that initially NVIDIA’s dual card solution, Scalable Link Interface (SLI), was also paper-launched. NVIDIA released information regarding SLI and we wrote a tech preview on it on June 27th of 2004, but we actually did not have hardware in hand until nearly five months later in November of 2004. NVIDIA clearly has the lead on ATI with their dual card solution having been out close to a year now while ATI’s dual card solution is just now coming to market. In that year’s time, ATI has not released their next generation video card lineup, while NVIDIA has.
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And Crossfire was just launched.... lets see how long until the parts are really readily available. I've found 0 crossfire mobo's or master cards for sale yet. And we're 2 days away from October... so.... a year is pretty accurate.

edit: just noticed you're on a 7 day ban :( too bad LOL.
 
Backfire, clearly. :p I think nVNews summed it up best though: :D

backfire2lw.jpg


Oh, and ROFL @ chrisf6969. That last comment was somehow very funny! ;)
 
well, i was just saying that alot of the ATI guys were on edge.....looks like my prediction was correct.....They really are seeing red!! I hope the 1800 series is good....so we can go back to civil conversation.....I just hope it doesnt "backfire" (I just had to do that, sorry??) :D
 
magoo said:
I just hope it doesnt "backfire" (I just had to do that, sorry??) :D
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no apology neccessary.....you couldn't have been more accurate. ;)
 
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