Crossfire or Misfire?

Crossfire or Misfire

  • Crossfire

    Votes: 75 16.7%

  • Misfire

    Votes: 373 83.3%
  • Total voters
    448
eno-on said:
Is a 60 year old car selling for 60 grand competition for a new car selling for 60 grand? No, in nothing other than PRICE.
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If you plan on just having that video card for its looks or because you think it will go up in value because its a collectors item, then you can be subjectively right. But your anology is poor because you would be ATTEMPTING to use the card in the same capacity from both venders. You are with this anology implying that ATi's current crossfire might have something extra to offer to distinguish itself. If so, what?

However, the first crossfire could become a collectors item and go up in value because if nobody buys it, it would be consitered rare. :p
 
DocFaustus said:
If you plan on just having that video card for its looks or because you think it will go up in value because its a collectors item, then you can be subjectively right. But your anology is poor because you would be ATTEMPTING to use the card in the same capacity from both venders. You are with this anology implying that ATi's current crossfire might have something extra to offer to distinguish itself. If so, what?

However, the first crossfire could become a collectors item and go up in value because if nobody buys it, it would be consitered rare. :p
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I'll quote myself..
Is http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130240 competition for the 7800? no. its also 350 dollars.
How about this? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814106162 ? Nope, but it's 350 bucks too.
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They are not competition, regardless of price. Period. Argument over.
 
DocFaustus said:
huh? so are you agreeing with my last 2 posts then?
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To a degree, yes. Just reiterating my point. Making sure it's understood.

/edit : Since you didn't like my car analogy, I just put forth the meat and potatoes. Lots of other cards at 350 bucks that aren't 'competition' for the 7800's.
 
Misfire:
(1) The 'higher compatibilty' where you can put two cards together is pointless, as the better card will default to the lower cards settings, so what is the point in getting a fancy high priced card if it will be downgraded?
(2) The dongle thing is not so bad, however having master cards is a bitch
(i) higher prices, esp. at start as manufacturers do not know how many to make, therefore will play it safe by making few=more expensive.
(ii) bitch for manufacturers as no idea how many to make, and doubtful that there will be many left in future, whilst you will always be able in 6 months to find a gt or an ultra somewhere, and from any manufacture as the 8 drivers from nvidia allow this.
(3) won't be fixed with r520 as too late
(4) 'need profiles' any game that is out there that needs SLI is profiled. oh no quake 2 has no profile... it does not need it, who cares, and if you want it to, then make one...
(5) too late, nice to keep upgradeability for the old x8 users, however too late, as with the price of the master card and new mobo, it would be easier to spend a little more and get 2 r520.....
(6) finally it took sli 6 months to get completely perfect, and therefore it should take this long for ATI, maybe more as it was rushed, whereas nvidia was not with 3dfx and the voodoo cards. though ati of course had supertiling for military applications, rather like consoles that was for one application, and for few specs, very much unlike the consumer pc market.

I am not saying that crossfire will never be a success, but right now for dual gpu i would go with a pair of 7800gt or x, as it is a tried and tested tech.

moreover the 1800xt will not be available in volume at the start, only the x1600xt....

(7) ooh, one more thing, nvidia offers higher compatibilty with 7800gtx, 7800gt, 6800 ultra, gt, vanila, 6600gt, 6200 (pointless i know but....) whilst ati is merely high end....

ok rant over, but I would conclude by saying due to all the cash floating around in these things crossfire does have a future, however if you want to buy dual gpu in the next 6 months, go sli...

f
 
All this flap about the semantics of the word "competition" is pointless. The best offering from a particular company is their best offering. Not a year ago. Not "when my r520 ship comes in." NOW!

This is Net time. Put up or shut up. Crossfire is up against 7800GTX until something changes, and in the words of the mighty Aragorn, "that day is not THIS day."
 
Commander Suzdal said:
All this flap about the semantics of the word "competition" is pointless. The best offering from a particular company is their best offering. Not a year ago. Not "when my r520 ship comes in." NOW!

This is Net time. Put up or shut up. Crossfire is up against 7800GTX until something changes, and in the words of the mighty Aragorn, "that day is not THIS day."
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Whatever, Hobbit lover. :rolleyes:
Try waiting a week or two until the actual competition arrives, instead of trying to force a baseball game between the Giants and The Bad News Bears.
 
Since the X850XT-PE is the best card that ATI has out right now, yes it is the direct Competition to the 7800GTX (nVidia's Best Card). But performance wise a X850XT-PE can't be considered 7800GTX's competition, they are two different generations of tech.

The X850XT-PE is not on the same level as a 6800U either because the X850XT-PE is more powerful all around. But it's the same generation, therefor it's it direct competition.

The only way to do a comparision that makes sence is to compare the 6800U SLI vs X850XT CF vs 7800GTX (which is exactly how Kyle did it)

Money doesn't have a lot to do with competition, but when it comes down to two flagship cards that are almost the same cost and one card (7800) is more powerful, what would you pick?
 
If I had to buy a video card right now I'd buy a 7800, duh. Why? There's no competition for it. I'm going to wait until it's competition shows up before I purchase something though. Because, you know, I want to see what the competition has in store....
 
freddiepm61 said:
(7) ooh, one more thing, nvidia offers higher compatibilty with 7800gtx, 7800gt, 6800 ultra, gt, vanila, 6600gt, 6200 (pointless i know but....) whilst ati is merely high end....
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What are you a super F@nboy or something?

LOOK AT THIS FOR CARD LIST

Here I will list it also, it shows a ton of cards and you might notice the lower end entry level is mostly ATI cards.

7800GTX SLI
7800GT SLI
7800GTX
6800U SLI
7800GT
X850XT-PE
6800GT SLI
X800XT-PE
X850XT
X800XT
6800U
6800GT
X800XL
X850 PRO
X800 PRO
6600GT SLI
6800NU
X800GT
X800
6600GT
6800LE
X700 PRO
X700
6600
X600XT
X600 PRO
X300SE
6200
X300

nVidia and ATI are still ranked 2nd and 3rd behind INTEL for GPU chips produced.
Intel makes the most entry level video chips, so anything that nVidia and ATI put out is considered highend by default.
 
eno-on said:
Whatever, Hobbit lover. :rolleyes:
Try waiting a week or two until the actual competition arrives, instead of trying to force a baseball game between the Giants and The Bad News Bears.
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To follow your analogy: I didn't set up the game. I'm being asked to bet on the outcome, and I'm not going to waste my money on the "cute, lovable underdog." If the Giants play the Yankees tomorrow, I may bet differently, but that's not the game being played today.

A "true fan" should never gamble on sports, and a "tech fan" should never bet on videocards. My money, if I'm spending it now, today, goes to the best, now, today. That's the real competition. And to quote the Dread Pirate Roberts, "Anyone who says differently is selling something."
 
eno-on said:
At a price point, yes, they are 'competition'. From a tech standpoint, no, you couldn't possibly be more wrong. Is a 60 year old car selling for 60 grand competition for a new car selling for 60 grand? No, in nothing other than PRICE.
You know, empty, sometimes your rabid f@nb0yism fades a bit, and you seem ok, but then you come out of left field with this kind of crap which puts any credibility you have right back at less than zero.
Simple answer : There is no competition currently available for the 7x00 series, other than price.
Is http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130240 competition for the 7800? no. its also 350 dollars.
How about this? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814106162 ? Nope, but it's 350 bucks too.
Few more 6800's and x800's in there too. Your logic is flawed, as usual, and your argument holds as much water as a sieve.
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Ok, let me break it down so you can understand here.

nVidia and ATi both make videocards...they make videocards in different price ranges with different performance levels...so a consumer who goes to buy a videocard can choose a card from either company at a given price point...at some price points ATi's offerings are faster, at other price points nvidia cards are faster...

So if I had $350 to spend on a videocard, I have approximately 2 options assuming I want to get the best bang for my buck...an x850xt...or a 7800gt...

Being the same type of product, in the same category, at the same time, for the same price means you're competing for consumers money...

If at this point you still don't understand, I recommend you go to your local community college and take econ101.
 
Commander Suzdal said:
To follow your analogy: I didn't set up the game. I'm being asked to bet on the outcome, and I'm not going to waste my money on the "cute, lovable underdog." If the Giants play the Yankees tomorrow, I may bet differently, but that's not the game being played today.

A "true fan" should never gamble on sports, and a "tech fan" should never bet on videocards. My money, if I'm spending it now, today, goes to the best, now, today. That's the real competition. And to quote the Dread Pirate Roberts, "Anyone who says differently is selling something."
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And to continue it : Why don't you let the real team show up before you start the game? And no, I'm not betting on jack-shit. r520+crossfire could be a total train-wreck. I'm saying, let's let the team arrive before we force the issue.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
Ok, let me break it down so you can understand here.

nVidia and ATi both make videocards...they make videocards in different price ranges with different performance levels...so a consumer who goes to buy a videocard can choose a card from either company at a given price point...at some price points ATi's offerings are faster, at other price points nvidia cards are faster...

So if I had $350 to spend on a videocard, I have approximately 2 options assuming I want to get the best bang for my buck...an x850xt...or a 7800gt...

Being the same type of product, in the same category, at the same time, for the same price means you're competing for consumers money...

If at this point you still don't understand, I recommend you go to your local community college and take econ101.
Click to expand...
Or I could wait for the real competition to show up, which it will, shortly, before I call crossfire (which again, isn't a video card, hello) a failure.
To put it bluntly, crossfire may be a kickass technology, but without a good card to showcase it, it doesn't mean jack shit.
Again, if price were the issue that makes competition, the matrox parhelia and the 6800 would also be direct competition for the 7800. Which plainly, they aren't.
 
If the ATI fans had to wait this long in line for the latrine they'd be pissing their pants. All I hear is "wait"......like Jesus is gonna come, or pigs might fly, or my mom might break the worlds record in the 100 meters......SLI bud,SLI. You can have it now, it works,the pictures are beautiful, and no dongle to dangle. (unless you like playing with your dongle?????) No matter what.....to get close to the GTX you gotta buy 2 R520/x1800 of which they're might be three made.....if the past is any example.....so the price argument is out, you still have to buy a new board.....anybody seen one of those anywhere????? You dont know if you can use a lesser card with an x1800 (x850xt????) You gotta have one of those "master"things.....you need dongles..... WTF???? where does it end????
Sure when I got my SLI I bought a new board, and two cards.....but it was a solid, known comodity by then.....even if the x1800 is the best thing since playboy magazine...how long is it gonna take to reach the level where SLI is RIGHT NOW???? face it guys...your key word here is .....wait...... :D
 
eno-on said:
And to continue it : Why don't you let the real team show up before you start the game? And no, I'm not betting on jack-shit. r520+crossfire could be a total train-wreck. I'm saying, let's let the team arrive before we force the issue.
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right...because the game never stops being played...it doesn't matter what team ATi sends...the game continues with or without them...and after 4 months, most people got tired of waiting for ATi to bring their A game...

the game will change when R520 comes out...but until then...the game doesn't stop just because ATi can't get their shit together...
 
eno-on said:
Or I could wait for the real competition to show up, which it will, shortly, before I call crossfire (which again, isn't a video card, hello) a failure.
To put it bluntly, crossfire may be a kickass technology, but without a good card to showcase it, it doesn't mean jack shit.
Again, if price were the issue that makes competition, the matrox parhelia and the 6800 would also be direct competition for the 7800. Which plainly, they aren't.
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I agree that crossfire is not a card, it's a platform...and I've at no point said that crossfire itself is a failure, I've said that x850xt crossfire is a failure...and the vast majority seems to agree with that statement...

And the matrox parhelia IS competition for the 7800gt at that price...it's just really shitty competition...much like the x850xt
 
magoo said:
If the ATI fans had to wait this long in line for the latrine they'd be pissing their pants. All I hear is "wait"......like Jesus is gonna come, or pigs might fly, or my mom might break the worlds record in the 100 meters......SLI bud,SLI. You can have it now, it works,the pictures are beautiful, and no dongle to dangle. (unless you like playing with your dongle?????) No matter what.....to get close to the GTX you gotta buy 2 R520/x1800 of which they're might be three made.....if the past is any example.....so the price argument is out, you still have to buy a new board.....anybody seen one of those anywhere????? You dont know if you can use a lesser card with an x1800 (x850xt????) You gotta have one of those "master"things.....you need dongles..... WTF???? where does it end????
Sure when I got my SLI I bought a new board, and two cards.....but it was a solid, known comodity by then.....even if the x1800 is the best thing since playboy magazine...how long is it gonna take to reach the level where SLI is RIGHT NOW???? face it guys...your key word here is .....wait...... :D
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Eh. I have to replace everything anyway. Im still on an 865 chipset, AGP and a northwood. Which is why I don't mind waiting. Couple weeks is all it will take.
For people with SLI boards already, it's a no brainer on what to get. Hell, for people who want the fastest availabe PCIe card RIGHT NOW, it's no brainer. For me, I can wait.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
,I've said that x850xt crossfire is a failure...and the vast majority seems to agree with that statement...
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I agree with this as well.
And the matrox parhelia IS competition for the 7800gt at that price...it's just really shitty competition...much like the x850xt
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I don't agree with this, but hey, whatever.
Just because a pinto and a ferrari both pull up to the light at the same time, does not make them competition for each other.
 
eno-on said:
I don't agree with this, but hey, whatever.
Just because a pinto and a ferrari both pull up to the light at the same time, does not make them competition for each other.
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See that's what you just don't understand...

That's EXACTLY what makes them competition for eachother...whether or not one outclasses the other is immaterial...
 
eno-on said:
Eh. I have to replace everything anyway. Im still on an 865 chipset, AGP and a northwood. Which is why I don't mind waiting. Couple weeks is all it will take.
For people with SLI boards already, it's a no brainer on what to get. Hell, for people who want the fastest availabe PCIe card RIGHT NOW, it's no brainer. For me, I can wait.
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I hope you got a big bladder. :D
 
^eMpTy^ said:
See that's what you just don't understand...

That's EXACTLY what makes them competition for eachother...whether or not one outclasses the other is immaterial...
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No, sir, I DO understand. The competition for the ferraris has not yet pulled up to the light. Wait until it does.

BTW, my bladder can hold 11 pints of guinness for extended periods of time. :p
 
eno-on said:
And to continue it : Why don't you let the real team show up before you start the game? And no, I'm not betting on jack-shit. r520+crossfire could be a total train-wreck. I'm saying, let's let the team arrive before we force the issue.
Click to expand...
Because I'm not the coach, or the owner, or the league schedule-meister. Therefore it is not my decision when the game is played or by whom. There is a game scheduled today. The Giants are pitching and the Bad News Bears are at bat. I had nothing to do with this, and my preferences do not affect it. I can "let" or "wait" all I want, and the Bears are still playing today and they still lose. You are dealing in the realm of the ideal and the theoretical, whilst I am insisting on the real and the practical. Which is, to return to the point, the only definition of "competition" that interests me. You are free to think otherwise, I am merely stating why I disagree.
 
eno-on said:
No, sir, I DO understand. The competition for the ferraris has not yet pulled up to the light. Wait until it does.

BTW, my bladder can hold 11 pints of guinness for extended periods of time. :p
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Here's where your analogy is failing you...this is not a drag race where both contenders pull a car up to the line at the exact same time with a little green light to tell them when to launch...

This is more like a never-ending relay race...and whoever is currently running, is who is competing...and right now the x850xt is running for ATi and the 7800gt is running for nVidia...thus THEY ARE COMPETITION...

If at this point you still fail to admit that these two cards, which are currently selling in the same stores at the same price in order to perform the same function, are competiting against eachother...then I have no choice but to conclude that the only reason you would choose to deny such an obvious truth is that you simply can't tolerate the ass whipping ATi is currently taking at the high end...

Have you looked at their stock recently?
 
^eMpTy^ said:
Here's where your analogy is failing you...this is not a drag race where both contenders pull a car up to the line at the exact same time with a little green light to tell them when to launch...

This is more like a never-ending relay race...and whoever is currently running, is who is competing...and right now the x850xt is running for ATi and the 7800gt is running for nVidia...thus THEY ARE COMPETITION...

If at this point you still fail to admit that these two cards, which are currently selling in the same stores at the same price in order to perform the same function, are competiting against eachother...then I have no choice but to conclude that the only reason you would choose to deny such an obvious truth is that you simply can't tolerate the ass whipping ATi is currently taking at the high end...

Have you looked at their stock recently?
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I actually couldn't give a rats ass about their stock. I own stock in neither nVidia or ATi. You say the x850 is the competition for the 7800. I say there IS no competition for the 7800. I'll wait until there is. And have a beer in the meantime. Like right now.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
Ah, now I see where your logic is coming from...
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All logic eventually leads to beer.
In any case, yes, I understand why one would consider the x850 to be the 7800's competition, but I consider the r520 to be it's competition. These are the two cards intended to be in competition with each other, on both companies roadmaps.
The r520 is nowhere to be found, however, thus, no competition.
Now, back to my amber ale.
 
eno-on said:
All logic eventually leads to beer.
In any case, yes, I understand why one would consider the x850 to be the 7800's competition, but I consider the r520 to be it's competition. These are the two cards intended to be in competition with each other, on both companies roadmaps.
The r520 is nowhere to be found, however, thus, no competition.
Now, back to my amber ale.
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I see where you're coming from...and I agree that waiting is the thing to do...I'm only trying to point out that the x850xt and 7800gt have been competing with eachother for a while now...and that you shouldn't be comparing the x850xt to a 6800u...
 
Personally I think, ATI pulled an nVidia ... Back when nVidia released the FX cards *cough* 5800 *cough* I do think that it is a little sad that one 7800 GTX can keep up with CrossFire. Hey who knows whats in the works, but when nVidia comes out with the G80... well ATI better step it up, and soon.

-Proxy
 
^
Why is that Sad? The 6800U in SLi is faster than a 7800GTX but thats through time and driver updates that made SLi much more Efficent. The fact Cross Fire came from the get go with this level of performance is rather astounding.
 
Commander Suzdal said:
And to quote the Dread Pirate Roberts, "Anyone who says differently is selling something."
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Nice Princess Bride Reference.!
 
eno-on said:
I agree with this as well.

I don't agree with this, but hey, whatever.
Just because a pinto and a ferrari both pull up to the light at the same time, does not make them competition for each other.
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THATS IT!!!
NO MORE FUCKING ANALOGIES! :p
Stick with saying what were talking about... LOL :D
That goes to all of you!
- eno-on
- Commander Suzdal
- ^empty^
;)
 
tornadotsunamilife said:
Why does so many people compare the 7800GTX performance with X850XT's in Crossfire but not 6800U in SLi?
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Because if you have $700 to spend on a dual graphics card system, you will be looking at 2x 7800 cards vs 2x X850XTs, not 2 X850XTs and 2 6800Us.
 
Talonz said:
Because if you have $700 to spend on a dual graphics card system, you will be looking at 2x 7800 cards vs 2x X850XTs, not 2 X850XTs and 2 6800Us.
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not unless you're retarded. Anyone on these boards no matter what they prefer, given the option between 2x X850 or 2x 7800GTX/GT knows what they'd pick.

The question is why is there people justifying the comparison, especially on this board where its suppose to be full of enthusiasts. The answer given is nothing short of stupid. Theres no comparison between the cards, anyone here would know what they'd pick, so please stop comparing them, they're not equals. There is no question which one is better.

The same goes for comparing an X800Pro to an 5800U or a 9700 to a GF4. Cost is nothing, performance is everything. They're very different performance wise.
 
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