CCD MI-6: Performance in a 6.7L MIcrotower

[Boil]

Damnit, now I got another SFF boutique chassis thread to read thru…!

Will do so soon, so far my chassis choices are hampered by cost (Osmi jacked their prices up a good bit…) & availability (Dune Case failed to meet their Kickstarter goal, so who knows where that is going…).

This chassis is looking good as a possible alternative. The previously mentioned two choices would really work well with the Hackintosh build I want to do, from a purely aesthetic viewpoint. I really want mini ITX MB / mini ITX GPU & SFX (SFX-L…?) specific chassis, with the ability to hold at least one 15mm thick 2.5" drive. GOOD airflow/cooling is very important, as is ease of assembly.

Now I am just starting to ramble…

TL;DR - Nice chassis; when & how much…?!? ;^p

 

[Firewolfy]

Well cost target is less than $150, and a stretch goal of under $100. Prelim quotes are in line with this.

Timing, unknown. I am going to get a prototype set of parts made as soon as I'm done tweaking.

Latest tweak I'm working on is to have the top I/O along with room for an 80mm fan in the bottom. Then there would be space for 1-3 HDD/SSDs, depending on fan usage, SFX vs sfx-l, and if a gigabyte MB is used (since it has the angled esata connector).

I'll throw a render on here soon.

 

[iFreilicht]

since it has the angled esata connector

Very good, if you can support that kind of thing it will only help your case. Especially as the Z170 Gaming 5 seems to be able to do Thunderbolt and is the only ITX board with that capability.
I actually like the angled connectors because you can make cabling a little cleaner with them, but of course it limits their compatibility with certain cases.

BTW, those connectors are SATAe (SATA express), not eSATA (external SATA), two very different things.

 

[Firewolfy]

Yeah, I knew they were different but couldn't remember the notations. Thanks man.

 

[kajba]

Like the idea alot but wouldnt it be possible to have 120m infront and skip the SFX PSU? it will be a bit lower but longer and also have "more" space for CPU fan an so on. For PSU to use PicoPSU or hdplex. Would save so much space.

 

[Firewolfy]

Like the idea alot but wouldnt it be possible to have 120m infront and skip the SFX PSU? it will be a bit lower but longer and also have "more" space for CPU fan an so on. For PSU to use PicoPSU or hdplex. Would save so much space.

Yes, I've seen other cases that do that sort of thing, and it does work. My goal is to use a bit more space to do the following:

> Direct air intakes for the CPU, GPU and PSU fans to maximize efficiency and minimize or eliminate the need for supplemental fans.
> High-end ITX GPU (960, 970, Nano).
> SFX or SFX-L PSU to minimize noise and maximize wattage potential.
> CPU cooler up to 63mm tall. This gives a lot of flexibility on cooler and CPU/MB. Although it won't overclock, it will be able to handle 95W+. Sockets 1150 and 1151, and I also want to test 2011-v3 and something like a i7-5820 (140W) to see if a good 63mm cooler with great cool air intake can handle it.
> Minimize desktop footprint to around 5x8".
> Room for the edge-mount SATA-e connectors that seem to be becoming more common on MBs.
> Flexibility to support SSD/HDDs (2.5") in up to 3 locations, or use 1 location for bottom case fan, and/or another location for connecting to a SATA-e edge connector.
> Quick-disconnect SSD/HDD mounts.
> Headphone and USB3 jacks in an easily-accessible location.
> PCIE riser shielded cable at a reasonable price, so the LiHeat version, and generous bends to match.
> Bottom 80mm case fan is a new idea to address SSD cooling, especially M2 behind the MB. It pulls in cool air and pumps it past the SSD/HDD and hopefully to the backplane M2 area.

So that is the functional wish list.

Here are a couple new renders that show some latest thoughts--

Alternate concept for venting around the I/O ports--

In previous posts I have put up pics of how the MB and everything fits in there, and that hasn't changed, except the relocated SSD/HDD and new fan.

 

[iFreilicht]

The 80mm bottom fan is the wrong way around in your renders

I guess that fan can only be used with SFX PSUs, not SFX-L, right?

 

[Boil]

Will either of the front SSD mounts hold a 15mm drive…?

I am REALLY wanting to find a SFF chassis that will accommodate an Asus M8I MB, 15mm 2.5" SSD, & SFX PSU. With a 80mm fan on the bottom of your chassis fresh air would be blown directly across the heat sink fins of the Intel 750-series NVMe SSD… This would REALLY alleviate a lot of the concerns I have with NVMe SSDs & SFF chassis…!

So if either front mounting location can accommodate a 15mm thick SSD, this chassis is now my Golden Standard…

/fingerscrossed

 

[Gookitron]

The Case Is Looking amazing.

Those bottom cutouts by the psu looks absolutely massive. Is there any concern for structural integrity when the case is fully loaded (flex and twist)? It appears the back half is only supported by the two posts.

 

[Firewolfy]

The 80mm bottom fan is the wrong way around in your renders

I guess that fan can only be used with SFX PSUs, not SFX-L, right?

Yes and yes, I'll need to flip that fan, and the SFX-L is a big pig.

Will either of the front SSD mounts hold a 15mm drive…?

Well, it will fit. See the pic below. Ignore the 9mm HDD in there, as I just took measurements on the model I had handy. There is .75" (~19mm) nominal, but only 14.5mm nominal if the bracket is used. The only compromise you would have to make is to screw it into the chassis with the 4 screws, and not use the mounting bracket.

I don't have 4 holes there now, but they could be added pretty easily with countersinks, and use some flathead screws.

I noticed that the SSD has the cooling fins on the bottom, against the chassis, so they won't see a lot of air velocity. On the good side, there will be good contact at the mounting pads to the chassis as a heatsink, and the rest of the SSD case would see airflow and good forced-convention heat transfer.

The Case Is Looking amazing.

Those bottom cutouts by the psu looks absolutely massive. Is there any concern for structural integrity when the case is fully loaded (flex and twist)? It appears the back half is only supported by the two posts.

You might have a point, and I agree there is some risk. I think it is small, but will have to be checked with the prototype. You got me thinking about that corner though, and I think I'll put a larger radii in the corners of the PSU rear cutout. Lemme see if that will add enough material to improve confidence there. I'll throw a screenshot up later. Thanks for pointing that out Gookitron.

 

[Firewolfy]

Ok, some more thoughts to bounce off everyone--

>Regarding case strength in the corner by the PSU:
I increased the radius on the corners of the PSU back opening. Probably doesn't add much corner stiffness, but I think it's generally a good idea to do.
I'm counting on the chassis being 2mm thk and having good material strength (5052-H32 or 6061-T6) to yield enough stiffness. We'll see how the proto does.

>Regarding how the various SFX psu options will fit:
The PSU opening in the bottom is kind of a compromise to fit to SFX (100mm) and SFX (125, 130) sizes, and for centered and offset fans. I noticed that Silverstone has some with the fan centered and others with fan offset. Looks like the Corsair is centered, but a BeQuiet unit I saw was offset, as was the cheapo no-name 300W unit I bought recently for fit checking.
Take a look and see if you can get comfortable with the fan openings. I'm ok with it, but it took a lot of pondering for me, and wanting whatever psu is installed to generally look like it belongs there.

 

[Boil]

Well, it will fit. See the pic below. Ignore the 9mm HDD in there, as I just took measurements on the model I had handy. There is .75" (~19mm) nominal, but only 14.5mm nominal if the bracket is used. The only compromise you would have to make is to screw it into the chassis with the 4 screws, and not use the mounting bracket.

I don't have 4 holes there now, but they could be added pretty easily with countersinks, and use some flathead screws.

I noticed that the SSD has the cooling fins on the bottom, against the chassis, so they won't see a lot of air velocity. On the good side, there will be good contact at the mounting pads to the chassis as a heatsink, and the rest of the SSD case would see airflow and good forced-convention heat transfer.

That is awesome…! I also noticed that the heat sink fins are the mounting surface & thought "that's dumb…" I can simply mount that with the 'label side' against the panel with a rectangle of quality 3M heavy-duty velcro… Even looks like the 80mm fan will still mount with a 15mm drive in the bottom bracket…!

Shut up and take my money…!

 

[Boil]

Imagine a perfectly smooth front panel, no fasters or markings to take away from its potential as a blank platform for expression…

Now imagine a front shot of an AT-AT from ESB, on approach to the shied generators on Hoth laser etched onto that pristine canvas…

Or a high-quality laminate veneer applied; woods, leathers & industrial materials (Woods - bamboo, maple, oak, etc. / Leathers - smooth, suede, alligator, etc. / Industrial - carbon fiber, diamond plate, smoked glass, etc.)…

Or a white board front, with included wipe-off pen & little velcro holder tab… ;^p

(I was gonna put a chalkboard from here, but them I remembered what dust is

Now imagine using these approaches for "Medium-to-High Roller Whales" to jumpstart your crowdfunding, a handful of each variant available for a single chassis with the front treatment, but costing as much as two or even three chassis to the lucky tier level purchaser…! (hey, some of those veneers & treatments can be pricy…)

I will graciously accept two chassis gratis for the giving of this sure to win fund raising idea(s); one a black chassis with silver sides/top & a bamboo veneer front treatment, the other with a black chassis, sides/top & a silver front panel with graphic to be provided laser etching front panel treatment…

;^p

 

[Boil]

Yes, this list shows an incompatablilty because of the PCIe add-in card version of the Intel 750-series NVMe 15mm 2.5" SSD, but PCPartsPicker has still not added said 2.5" SSDs to their database yet, even though I have requested this months ago…


Intel Core i5-6500, Asus GeForce GTX 970 - System Build - PCPartPicker

Should make for a pretty sweet Hackintosh…!!!

 

[Firewolfy]

That is awesome…! I also noticed that the heat sink fins are the mounting surface & thought "that's dumb…" I can simply mount that with the 'label side' against the panel with a rectangle of quality 3M heavy-duty velcro… Even looks like the 80mm fan will still mount with a 15mm drive in the bottom bracket…!

Shut up and take my money…!

lol, thx bro for the feedback.

 

[Firewolfy]

Imagine a perfectly smooth front panel, no fasters or markings to take away from its potential as a blank platform for expression…

Now imagine a front shot of an AT-AT from ESB, on approach to the shied generators on Hoth laser etched onto that pristine canvas…

Or a high-quality laminate veneer applied; woods, leathers & industrial materials (Woods - bamboo, maple, oak, etc. / Leathers - smooth, suede, alligator, etc. / Industrial - carbon fiber, diamond plate, smoked glass, etc.)…

Or a white board front, with included wipe-off pen & little velcro holder tab… ;^p

(I was gonna put a chalkboard from here, but them I remembered what dust is

Now imagine using these approaches for "Medium-to-High Roller Whales" to jumpstart your crowdfunding, a handful of each variant available for a single chassis with the front treatment, but costing as much as two or even three chassis to the lucky tier level purchaser…! (hey, some of those veneers & treatments can be pricy…)

I will graciously accept two chassis gratis for the giving of this sure to win fund raising idea(s); one a black chassis with silver sides/top & a bamboo veneer front treatment, the other with a black chassis, sides/top & a silver front panel with graphic to be provided laser etching front panel treatment…

;^p

Hilarious! I was going to offer you 3, but if you are ok with just 2, that's ok too. /s

I did research those laptop and cellphone skins that can be applies to a smooth case surface. They have a LOT of patterns and such to choose from, and they do sizes big enough for this case.

 

[Firewolfy]

Yes, this list shows an incompatablilty because of the PCIe add-in card version of the Intel 750-series NVMe 15mm 2.5" SSD, but PCPartsPicker has still not added said 2.5" SSDs to their database yet, even though I have requested this months ago…


Intel Core i5-6500, Asus GeForce GTX 970 - System Build - PCPartPicker

Should make for a pretty sweet Hackintosh…!!!

That is a very nice system, esp with that 400g ssd. My only question was what the high end MB gets you, cuz it is bloody expensive.

 

[Boil]

That is a very nice system, esp with that 400g ssd. My only question was what the high end MB gets you, cuz it is bloody expensive.

The Asus motherboard IS a bit pricey, but it gives me that U.2 connector, allowing the use of the 750-series SSD… An item I feel would be easier to keep cool than a much smaller M.2 SSD sandwiched between the MB & tray… I am also the kind of guy who runs a system for about five years before replacing…

 

[clockdogg]

I really like this design too. Especially with the flood of 14nm low power high performance itx cards available at any moment...

But, then I read this part and my dreams sank like a cheap pancake cooler in a pool of hot air...

Ok, so the case has about 61mm height for the cpu cooler (the same as the Silverstone SG13 case). There is room to fit a Big Shuriken 2, ID-Cooling IS-60, Thermolab LP53, Thermalright AXP100, Zalmann CNPS8900, Silverstone AR06 or Akasa Nero LX.
This is my research so far, and I'm sure I'm missing a few at the 58-61 range.

So I don't think there is much overclocking possible with only 61mm, but for a given CPU a bigger cooler will run at lower speed, right, so quieter? (larger fan, meaning less rpm needed to move the same air volume/sec)

Those are all, at best, unusable for overclocking and are only applicable for stock clocks in some crappy little plastic httpc case at unacceptable noise levels. Having tested most in that list, I wouldn't use any in a system placed within a few feet of earshot on a desktop. And none of them feature what I consider a large, slow spinning fan - 140mm. Purchasing a beautiful custom case and then sticking a cheap crappy little pancake cooler in it seems plain wrong.

I implore you to consider at minimum adding another 11mm width to accommodate the Cryorig C1 or TR AXP-200. Ideally I'd advocate and get rejected for 110mm max cooler height so a bottom fan equipped Noctua C14 would fit and I could use a case that sounds as good as it looks. At the very least, please consider a 66mm max cooler height so a Noctua L12 with a single 92mm would fit. At least it would offer the potential for a premium cooler in a premium boutique case.

I'm in the minority, but the number one consideration when I select a case for a new build is: will it fit my high end air cooler? I love your concepts and I'd signup right now, but not if requires sacrificing low temps and quiet performance to save a few mm of of dubious aesthetic value.

This design won't support 150-160mm quiet, efficient tower coolers without a major redesign, but with a little more 'girth' could support the top tier of pancake coolers.

Wish you success with your design, with or without me as a customer.

 

[Necere]

Ideally I'd advocate and get rejected for 110mm max cooler height so a bottom fan equipped Noctua C14 would fit and I could use a case that sounds as good as it looks.

That's a 50mm increase in width, from 132mm to 182mm, and a bump in volume to 8.8L. With those dimensions, having the GPU on a riser cable no longer makes sense since it'd be wide enough to have it mounted in the slot the usual way. That would make it taller, though you'd gain back some width. Figure maybe 280 x 160 x 198mm, which is still about 8.8L, but you could now use the NH-C14 with both fans.

 

[Boil]

…adding another 11mm width to accommodate the Cryorig C1…

I could get behind adding an additional 0.5 liters to the overall volume, especially if it means getting a high quality HSF like the C1 into play…

Maybe increasing the width to allow for the taller cooler; but decrease the depth by removing the space allocated for the drives. Said drive(s) could be moved next to the PSU/below the MB…?

This might turn the chassis into a single drive system (two, if your MB of choice has a M.2 SSD slot)… And possibly still keep it at that 5.5 liter overall volume…?

But at the current configuration, especially with the knowledge that I can place a 80mm fan pulling air in from below, I think I might just go with the Cryorig C7… After all, I will be running a non-K series i5 CPU, so the C7 should be more than enough to keep it cool…

 

[Firewolfy]

Clockdogg, thanks for the feedback.

I could see about getting to a width to handle a 66mm cooler, but much more than that I think would grow the case too much. If it was widened 11mm, then why not go 25 or so and just become a standard cube with the GPU mounted directly to the MB, like Necere mentioned.

Maybe a cube is better for the overclocker, cuz I keep reading at least +1ghz is needed to make it worthwhile, with some serious heat dissipation needed. I don't know much about overclocking, though.

The current 63mm of space and the large vents pattern to handle 120x120 or so is to maximize cooling options in a nice tiny footprint. The case won't be completely silent when running all out: the sfx psu will have a 92mm fan or smaller, the gpu fan(s) will definitely be less than 100mm. The optional bottom case fan will be 80mm.

The great fresh air intakes will expand the capabilities of whatever cooler is used. It will get minty fresh 20C air instead of partially recirculated 35C air.

 

[CC Ricers]

Nice renders. I almost mistook the first one for a real case.

Keeping it close to the width of 125mm for the PSU is a must, otherwise as you said there'd be no point to have the GPU vertically mounted and on a riser. And I think for the motherboard side, it would be nice to have fan mounts to optionally put a 120mm fan next to a low profile CPU cooler, for better temperatures (or even a 140mm fan that has 120mm hole spacings). You can make those mounting holes match up with the hole pattern of the case.

Is there any way there could be an option to have the power button on the top of the case next to the I/O panel? This still leaves the front panel clean and minimal and some people may have trouble reaching blindly to the back to turn it on.

 

[Boil]

"…reaching blindly to the back…"

Dude, it is the top right corner on a very small chassis, kinda hard to miss, even if one was truly blind…

Besides, the top i/o takes the space on the MB side, and the GPU would be taking the space on the, well, GPU side…

 

[DaHans]

Great case! I would buy one today!

Are there plans to sell it worldwide?

 

[Firewolfy]

CC, --yeah I had a power switch visible in concepts for awhile, but decided that I so rarely use it on my computers, that maybe it isn't needed in view.

DaHans, --it would be fun to make a bunch of them, if there is enough interest.

Right now I'm getting a dwg package together for a new round of quotes for prototypes. Hopefully the pricing will be better. The last prototype pricing was around $400-500 each for 3-5 units, plus finishing.

The design has changed a bit since the last quotes: a simpler front, simpler I/O, room and holes for 80mm fan, simple vent cutout for psu, divider with stiffener flange and cutout for access to MB backplane, anodize instead of powdercoat, simple feet, rear vents, relocated power switch. We'll see where it goes from there. Worst case, I just make a few prototypes for my own use.

I can't see doing all the work that Dondan has done to create a company and such. It might be a bit less regulation since I'm in the U.S., but I'm sure there would still be a lot of work. It would be sweet if a low volume mfgr picked it up. I know Sliger is a great company and they are working with Kimera now....

 

[clockdogg]

Clockdogg, thanks for the feedback.

I could see about getting to a width to handle a 66mm cooler, but much more than that I think would grow the case too much. If it was widened 11mm, then why not go 25 or so and just become a standard cube with the GPU mounted directly to the MB, like Necere mentioned.

Maybe a cube is better for the overclocker, cuz I keep reading at least +1ghz is needed to make it worthwhile, with some serious heat dissipation needed. I don't know much about overclocking, though.

The current 63mm of space and the large vents pattern to handle 120x120 or so is to maximize cooling options in a nice tiny footprint. The case won't be completely silent when running all out: the sfx psu will have a 92mm fan or smaller, the gpu fan(s) will definitely be less than 100mm. The optional bottom case fan will be 80mm.

The great fresh air intakes will expand the capabilities of whatever cooler is used. It will get minty fresh 20C air instead of partially recirculated 35C air.

Thanks for the consideration. Hope you choose to take Route 66 (mm). It's so much cooler. Not quite as cool as Route 74, but still....

It's not so much about overclocking, altho, that's always a good thing, it's about getting as quiet as a build as possible. The better SFX PSUs, like Corsair and the new Seasonic, run pretty quiet. I usually replace the crappy stock low static pressure fans on the GPU with quieter, stronger 92mm fans in any build.

 

[Boil]

…make a bunch of them, if there is enough interest.

Right now I'm getting a dwg package together for a new round of quotes for prototypes. Hopefully the pricing will be better. The last prototype pricing was around $400-500 each for 3-5 units, plus finishing.

The design has changed a bit since the last quotes: a simpler front, simpler I/O, room and holes for 80mm fan, simple vent cutout for psu, divider with stiffener flange and cutout for access to MB backplane, anodize instead of powdercoat, simple feet, rear vents, relocated power switch. We'll see where it goes from there. Worst case, I just make a few prototypes for my own use.

I can't see doing all the work that Dondan has done to create a company and such. It might be a bit less regulation since I'm in the U.S., but I'm sure there would still be a lot of work. It would be sweet if a low volume mfgr picked it up. I know Sliger is a great company and they are working with Kimera now....

If you can get a price quote between one & two hundred bucks ($150 would be a sweet spot?) down enough for a specific volume (say, 500 to 1000 units?) & manage a Kickstarter to raise the capital for the volume run…?

I would think the minimum you would need would be a general LLC, working off of the LL part of that, Limited Liability… You are selling a product sort of like an Etsy seller, you just happened to have a 1000 of the item made…? Limited warranty, issues with chassis itself could be nonexistent if QA/QC are done properly during manufacturing & on your inspections (you deal with manufacturer to assure quality & any cost for out-of-spec chassis correction/replacement is worked into the overall cost for the run…?) QA/QC on the I/O panel & power switch should be straight forward, plug them in, do they work?, pass or fail… Any issues down the road would be a return to you & then you return to vendor…? I dunno, I just want one for about 150 bucks plus shipping… Less would (always) be a Good Thing…! ;^p

When you get closer to prototypes, can we see examples of both anodized & powder coated…? Right now, I would lean towards preferring powder coating…

Thanks Firewolfy, keep up the good work…!!!

 

[Boil]

Okay, so I REALLY want to have the above, with the below laser etched onto the front panel… After all, it IS going to be a Hackintosh…!

 

[Firewolfy]

LOL, at first I thought you wanted the 'take my money' graphic on the front. Now that would have been funny!

You mention a kickstarter sort of thing. I've seen a couple fail lately, so I'm not so confident in that approach anymore. After quoting is back, I'll be checking into other avenues as well.

 

[Boil]

LOL…!!! But the orientation is all wrong…! ;^p

I only mention Kickstarter because that is becoming a generic term for crowdfunded projects; like Xerox & copiers or Kleenex & tissues…

REALLY hope you can bring this chassis to market in one way or another, it fits everything I want to place in it with no compromising, it looks good, and it is a nice compact package…!

 

[DaHans]

The Design looks already great. You can save mones if you tell us which riser to buy and which power switch to choose. I think NFC did that with the S4 mini.

The rgeulations in Germany are hard, so maybe there is a chance to pick it up in the US.

 

[iFreilicht]

You can save mones if you tell us which riser to buy and which power switch to choose. I think NFC did that with the S4 mini.

For the power switch he did, yes, because you it's very easy to get them in a wide variety of colours. But the riser is actually supplied with the case as it's a very specific length and stiffness which are required to support the GPU.

 

[QinX]

For the power switch he did, yes, because you it's very easy to get them in a wide variety of colours. But the riser is actually supplied with the case as it's a very specific length and stiffness which are required to support the GPU.

The riser is a optional extra that you can buy with the case, but nothing prevents people from sourcing their own if they want.

 

[iFreilicht]

Ah, thanks for clearing that mistake up.

 

[Firewolfy]

Great idea on the regulated parts (riser cable, power button cable, and front I/O board and cable). I could just reference the direct manufacturer/distributor. Or maybe use ebay for that.

 

[Firewolfy]

I have decided to keep an updated design status on the first page of the thread. This should make it simpler all around to enter and read about the latest design details.

 

[Firewolfy]

One piece of news -- I have the final dwgs out for costing. Looking for prototype quote, and then for 20pc, 100pc 500pc run sizes. Should have something early next week.

 

[Boil]

• Quick-disconnect 2.5” SSD/HDD mounts made of 301 stainless spring steel.
  
  
• Standard screw mount locations for 2.5” SSD/HDD to tie to chassis heat sinking, or use of vibration isolators.
  
  
• Flexibility to mix and match up to 3 SSD/HDDs (up to 15 mm), 80mm case fan, clearance for MB SATA-E angled connection.

So… Does this mean that a 15mm SSD will fit in the spring clips now, or am I just reading into that too much…?

 

[Firewolfy]

Yes, it should be fine, on the upper location. I might add a mm or 2 to be sure, depending on how the tolerances stack up.

Won't fit down at the lower front location, though, because the MB and divider are close and the HDD/SSD can't be pivoted out of the spring clip. It has to be hard mounted down there.