CCD MI-6: Performance in a 6.7L MIcrotower

[Firewolfy]

Boil,
I'm hoping the same thing, that Intel didn't miss the Obvious design need to fit in the 1/4" space, lol.

On the cutout, I misspoke. I had looked at the Giga H and Asus Pro when I wrote that about backside M.2.

Prototype updates??.....




....





....





....






Well I got 2 chassis prototypes on Wed, woo hoo!!!. (um......still working on the other main parts, the divider, front plate and cover)
I have been sifting thru the grain of the sheet metal world, and been throwing out a lot of chaff (crazy high-priced shops).

I have found a couple local that look good: Nice, small, low overhead shops. One is a laser cutter and the other a metal stamper/bender. So I had 2 chassis' laser cut, then bent. No finish on them, just working on dimensions and fit. They look very good, fit up-wise

Ok, so here are some pics, I am doing fit checks now so they are a bit cluttered. Using a cheapo 300W SFX with Lonnnnng cables

Ok, I thought I'd also show the PCIE riser bend. It's the Li-Heat and I pretty happy with it. It looks like it will be less than $25 so that is good. I noticed that Li-Heat puts clamping blocks on each side of the cable where is goes onto the PCB as stress relief.

 

[Boil]

DUDE…!!!

SO COOL…!!!

Those photos look nice, cannot wait to see more…!!!

USB cable looks alright, lengthwise, enough reach for any MB, but that blue color has to go…! ;^p

Power button cable looks like it might be too short for some of the stretches it might need to make, need a decent amount of extra wire there to allow it to be routed along the perimeter of the chassis to hide it away )rather than have it stretched across the MB/HSF…

But all in all, I am super stoked to see these two partial photos…!!! One step closer…!!!

YAY…!!!

 

[Findecanor]

That's great. I think fit-testing should be done with components that are not the smallest around.

 

[pendragon1]

lookin good!

USB cable looks alright, lengthwise, enough reach for any MB, but that blue color has to go…!

I think that's just the sata cable. the usbs are black theyre the two on the outside edge, you can see they are separate. the tip looks blue but once its plugged in you wont see it.

 

[Firewolfy]

Yes, I didn't catch what Boil meant. That blue cable is a sata. The USB 3.0 cables are black and way too long. They were just initial samples from the mfgr. Incorrect cable length but correct pcb.

 

[Boil]

Looking at the proto pics, what is the tab sticking up in the area where the 80mm fan would go…?

I see you have a drive bracket in place, is that from one of the two shops that did the protos…?

I remember you saying that you had found a source for them from a spring steel place in a past post…?

Yeah, I was looking at the SATA data cable & thinking it was the USB, did not zoom into the pic yet at that point…

The actual USBs look too long, could probably be half that length, if not a bit shorter… I would feel that the USB will be something that will be plugged in where it needs, but too bulky & stiffish overall to actually route around the perimeter(s) of the chassis for hiding away…?

Does your USB source have the black ports (like I mentioned earlier in reference to the ones on the v5 of the NCase M1)…?

Keep it up Firewolfy, you are doing God's work…!

 

[Firewolfy]

I put 2 drive brackets in place there, so you were seeing the 2nd one. They are just ones that I fashioned out of some things stock I have.

You and I are on the same page, the USB could be half the length. -and it's ridiculously rigid. As you mentioned earlier the MB usb jack is usually right next to the usb/audio pcb at the upper left corner so the cable has to make a big almost 360 degree loop. I am asking the mfgr about only supplying 1 cable so it isn't such a pain to route.

I have not heard back about the color yet.

 

[Boil]

Ah…! I would plan on using a fan there, so I totally spaced on the fact that one CAN have a drive on the bottom of the chassis instead…!

Yeah, most mITX MBs have the USB header on the edge of the board… But the Gigabyte H170 I am eyeing at this time…? They decided the USB header should be located on the inner portion of the board near the PCIe slot & rear I/O…

"Hey Bob! We got the CPU power half way around the perimeter of the MB from the 24-pin, where should we put the USB header?"

"Fuck it,Randy! Just drop it over by the corner where the PCIe slot & rear I/O meet, try and get it as close to the CPU Keep Out Zone as you can!"

 

[Firewolfy]

OK, so I have a question I'd love to get everyone's feedback on.

I am thinking of making provision for a thin 92mm fan against the front face. This would be to add ventilation like the 80mm fan on the bottom, but quieter, and maybe a good front look esp with case lighting. It would need an different (optional) front plate with a vent cutout pattern. Here is a pic, but with 120mm cuz I don't have a 92.

(I tried to fit this 120mm but it would interfere with gpu, so the case would have to grow in depth 15mm just for a slim version)

Thoughts appreciated.

 

[Firewolfy]

Ah…! I would plan on using a fan there, so I totally spaced on the fact that one CAN have a drive on the bottom of the chassis instead…!

Yeah, most mITX MBs have the USB header on the edge of the board… But the Gigabyte H170 I am eyeing at this time…? They decided the USB header should be located on the inner portion of the board near the PCIe slot & rear I/O…

"Hey Bob! We got the CPU power half way around the perimeter of the MB from the 24-pin, where should we put the USB header?"

"Fuck it,Randy! Just drop it over by the corner where the PCIe slot & rear I/O meet, try and get it as close to the CPU Keep Out Zone as you can!"

Lol

 

[Boil]

OK, so I have a question I'd love to get everyone's feedback on.

I am thinking of making provision for a thin 92mm fan against the front face. This would be to add ventilation like the 80mm fan on the bottom, but quieter, and maybe a good front look esp with case lighting. It would need an different (optional) front plate with a vent cutout pattern. Here is a pic, but with 120mm cuz I don't have a 92.

(I tried to fit this 120mm but it would interfere with gpu, so the case would have to grow in depth 15mm just for a slim version)

Thoughts appreciated.

Would REALLY need to see some renderings of how this might look…

Would also need to know how it would affect the other options in that area… Does a 92mm fan interfere with the upper front mounted drive & its cabling…? Would it still allow for the 80mm fan or a drive mounted in the bottom of the chassis…? Will it allow for better airflow in the chassis…? I can see where the bottom mounted 80mm fan will move air upwards thru the chassis, willl the front mounted 92mm do the same or just push air into the connector side of the PSU, causing a churning maelstrom of air in the lower half of the chassis…?

Maybe run some sort of simulation with airflow/thermal dynamics software…?!? ;^p

 

[Boil]

OR…!!!

Make the entire chassis anywhere from 14mm to 25mm taller, thereby enabling the use of dual top mounted 92mm fans to exhaust the chassis air…!

Still keep the 80mm below, to help push air up out of the lower chassis dead zone…

;^p

 

[Firewolfy]

Would REALLY need to see some renderings of how this might look…

Would also need to know how it would affect the other options in that area… Does a 92mm fan interfere with the upper front mounted drive & its cabling…? Would it still allow for the 80mm fan or a drive mounted in the bottom of the chassis…? Will it allow for better airflow in the chassis…? I can see where the bottom mounted 80mm fan will move air upwards thru the chassis, willl the front mounted 92mm do the same or just push air into the connector side of the PSU, causing a churning maelstrom of air in the lower half of the chassis…?

Maybe run some sort of simulation with airflow/thermal dynamics software…?!? ;^p

Yes, the fan eliminates any drive mounting on the front wall. There would be room on the bottom only. Maybe mount the 750 upside down so the cooling fins are in the fan airflow?

Man, and I was just wondering how to use maelstrom in a sentence, lol. Nice work. I'll have my analysis guy check that out.....

 

[Boil]

Yes, the fan eliminates any drive mounting on the front wall. There would be room on the bottom only. Maybe mount the 750 upside down so the cooling fins are in the fan airflow?

So by adding a front mounted 92mm fan, you reduce your drive capacity from a possible total of 3 drives to 1…?

You could stack drives on the bottom, but they would interfere with the cables from the PSU…

And speaking of PSU, if one were to use a SFX-L (or use a 80mm on the bottom as well, for maximum air movement), that would leave only a (possible) M.2 drive as the sole system drive…

A lot of tradeoffs for a slightly larger fan; I would get the remaining chassis parts, build it up & start testing with a 80mm fan for now; work on the renderings for inclusion of a front mounted fan & how that is going to impact the overall look & aesthetics of the chassis…

And if you decide to go further with the front mount 92mm, that is going to require either modding one of your current protos, or ordering up at least one more proto with the required changes implemented…

 

[Boil]

But again, if making major chassis changes, I would vote for an increase in height to add dual 92mm fans to the top pulling all of the air out of the chassis…

Then the question is, dual 92x14mm slim Noctua fans for minimal height addition & good cooling, but maybe with a small amount of noise; or 92x25mm standard Noctuas for better cooling & lower overall noise…?

With the way you have the outer cover configured, you could actually offer a choice…!!!

The (current) standard cover, no top fans…

An optional taller cover, for clearing the fans, with built in brackets for the fans; one would just need to remember to handle the removal of the cover properly to avoid damaging the PWM leads or MB connection…

And this is where I start thinking about another optional cover that allows for a 2x92mm radiator up top; would have to use the SwiftTech Apogee Drive II DCC pump/CPU water block combo, along with a full-cover block for the GPU… This would really limit GPU selection to either the R9 Nano or a reference GTX 970, (which 'shrinks down' to slightly longer than mITX size when converted to WC), at least until we see some mITX-sized GTX 1070s…

I have NOT even thought about how to plumb such a wee beastie as of yet…

Yeah, optional outer covers that add additional cooling resources, I am liking it…

 

[Boil]

DAMNIT…!!!

The Hardware Labs Black Ice Nemesis M184GTX is 213mm in overall length, so the actual chassis inner frame would need changed…

Bummer, I was gonna make a mini-watercooled gaming rig…!

BUT…! If the chassis WAS made deeper to accommodate the 2x92mm radiator, then it could have dual front-mounted 92mm fans blowing fresh air into the chassis…

This would leave system drives to a single 15mm x 2.5" drive in the bottom & a M.2 behind the MB… I think we both know how I would utilize both locations…!

With the dual front 92mm fans, I would forgo any venting on the chassis floor (excepting the PSU venting, of course)…

And with not needing as much space on the CPU side, one could reduce the overall width of the chassis a little bit…? Keeping enough space for the SwiftTech pump/WB assembly, of course…




And of course NOW I am thinking of a chassis similar to the MI-6, but designed around a front-mounted EK 240 Predator, with dual 120mm fans up top to exhaust the chassis…

mITX MB & mITX GPU, of course…

Room for the 15mm x 2.5" SSD somewhere… Full-cover blocks for both the MB & GPU… PSU still on the bottom of the chassis…

Or top-mounted Predator & front-mounted chassis fans…?!?

Or a bottom 'pedestal', so the rad/fans have there own compartment…!?!

ARRRGGGHHHHH…!!!

 

[Firewolfy]

Boil,
Thx for the great thoughts. Might take me awhile to process them ALL. Lol


I like your point about how a sfx-l and a front 92mm would conspire to eliminate all drive mounting. Well, I checked some more and the upper front mount could still be there.

But I think the question is whether designing for sfx-l is needed. Silverstone released that new high watt in sfx-l , and Lian Li's new ones are sfx-l. But Corsair looks pretty good with std sfx, -and FSP just released 2 in std sfx. I think the best approach is to keep it in.

The trade offs are tough, but that's why we get the big bucks...

 

[Boil]

Honestly, the only reason for a SFX-L would be if one did not feel the PSU was getting enough cooling from the smaller fan that is inherent with the SFX form factor, or wanted the larger fan to try and reduce the noise from same…

But for the MI-6, I really feel the Corsair SF600 PSU is the perfect match; small enough to allow options in the cooling/drives area & more than enough wattage to run anything one could place in the chassis & still be pulling about half load or so maximum…

Also… I know you are mulling over that dual front 92mm chassis fans / 184mm top radiator idea…! What would the overall chassis volume be on something like that…? I would worry it might be a little top heavy…!

 

[Boil]

So we have GTX 1070s hitting the market now, I am wondering how much time before we see some mITX-sized love…?!?

 

[Minefoxi]

I just looked it up: the Gigabyte GTX 970 ITX came exactly one month after the launch of the reference 970 so mabye they'll arrive with the same or less delay. Regarding the rise of SFF gaming they might hit the market faster this generation.

 

[Boil]

Exciting times…!

I am looking forward to seeing what Asus might bring to the mITX GPU market in regards to the GTX 1070…

I am HOPING they do a vapor chamber for the cooling as they did with the GTX 970 DCMOC…!!!

 

[Firewolfy]

I have been anxiously waiting for itx versions as well. Gotta have high end itx's to keep this case feasible.

Man it would be sweet if they came out only a month after the full sizes were released!

 

[Boil]

Yeah, the only 'high end' mITX GPU right now is the R9 Nano…

The mITX 970s are starting to disappear from stock in a number of places (at least the Asus ones, still some Gigabyte ones out there)…

An i5 6500 CPU & a mITX-sized GTX 1070 in this chassis will make an awesome compact gaming mini tower…!

Looking forward to seeing more of the (actual physical) chassis as its development progresses…!

 

[asterix_1]

----RESERVED FOR THE LATEST DESIGN STATUS INFORMATION ----

5/5/2016:

PSU shown to show general fit.

Showing how to fit 2 hdd/ssd and bottom case fan and sfx psu.

Design and Features blurb --


General Features:

• Simple, clean styling. Small form factor keeps desk uncluttered. Dimensions 5.3”w x 7.8”d x 9.6”t ( 135 x 198 x 244mm). Footprint 41 sq in (267mm^2). Volume 6.5 l.
  
  
• Substantial, corrosion-resistant aluminum and stainless steel construction. 2mm thick aluminum chassis. Stainless steel fasteners.
  
  
• Open physical architecture simplifies working in the case. 1-pc cover allows access to both sides and top of case. Only 4 fasteners needed to attach the cover.
  
  
• Accepts mini-ITX size motherboards (e.g. 1150, 1151, 2011-v3), including those with angled SATA-Express jacks.
  
  
• Cutout behind MB for access to backplane and cpu cooler bracket without removing MB.
  
  
• Easy access top-mounted USB 3.0 jacks and audio.
  
  
• Customizable, removable front cover plate.
  
  
• Rear mounted power switch to minimize clutter.

Performance and Flexibility:

• Fresh air intakes for the CPU, GPU or other PCIE card, and PSU fans to maximize efficiency.
  
  
• Cover vent patterns sized to match up to all current MB cpu cooler locations and sizes up to 120x120mm, and all current gpu fan locations.
  
  
• Fits CPU coolers up to 2.48” (63mm) tall.
  
  
• Accepts full-height, 1 or 2-slot (1.7”, 43mm), ITX-sized GPUs or other PCIE card up to 7.4” (188mm) long, with clearance for PEG connectors.
  
  
• Flexibility to use any SFX or SFX-L PSU.
  
  
• Quick-disconnect 2.5” SSD/HDD mounts made of 301 stainless spring steel.
  
  
• Standard screw mount locations for 2.5” SSD/HDD to tie to chassis heat sinking, or use of vibration isolators.
  
  
• Flexibility to mix and match up to 3 SSD/HDDs (up to 15 mm), 80mm case fan, clearance for MB SATA-E angled connection.
  
  
• PCI-E 16x shielded riser cable supports Gen 3.

High end GPUs that will fit:

• All R9 Nano GPUs
  
  
• GeForce GTX 970 GPUs:

Asus GTX970-DCMOC-4GD5
Gigabyte GV-N970IXOC-4GD​

• GeForce GTX 960 GPUs:

Asus GTX960-MOC-2GD5
EVGA 02G-P4-2962-KR
EVGA 04G-P4-1962-KR
EVGA 04G-P4-3962-KR
Gigabyte GV-N960IXOC-2GD
Gigabyte GV-N960IXOC-4GD
Gigabyte GV-N960OC-2GD (rev. 1.0)
Gigabyte GV-N960OC-4GD​

• Sapphire R9 380 100384ITXOCL
• Sapphire R9 285 2G D5
  
• GeForce GTX 950 GPUs:

Asus GTX950-M-2GD5
EVGA 02G-P4-1950-KR
EVGA 02G-P4-2951-KR
Gigabyte GV-N950OC-2GD
MSI GTX 950 2GD5 OC ​

I like the look of that , keep up the good work

 

[Firewolfy]

I like the look of that , keep up the good work

Thx for the kind words Asterix.

Sorry everyone about the lack of updates recently. I've been busy working on drawing details to simplify fabrication (cheaper).

The perforated cover has been a bit of a challenge to source, so I've been spending time on tweaking that.

On the design side I've added 4mm to the case depth to:
1) fit a 15mm ssd to the front wall,
2) ensure the ssd can be mounted either side out for cooling (think Intel 750 heat sink location),
3) made a ssd bracket for #2 or to double up on 7mm drives,
4) ensure ssd/hdd's can be mounted in any or all of 3 case locations for max flexibility,
5) and give a bit more room for cable routing.

Note: I pretty much spent the whole weekend trying to find a way to get those things without the volume hit, lol. It's +0.13 L, after all! But I failed. Have to live with a 4mm larger footprint.

 

[Boil]

So is it 6.63 liters in volume now…?

What happens if something causes another slight increase in volume, say another +0.03 L…?!?

;^p

 

[Firewolfy]

So is it 6.63 liters in volume now…?

What happens if something causes another slight increase in volume, say another +0.03 L…?!?

;^p

Man, I do still have to figure out how to get that 65mm cooler to fit....

 

[Boil]

Man, I do still have to figure out how to get that 65mm cooler to fit....

So, 6.66 L in volume, Lucifer's own mini-tower…?!?

Whatever the final volume, if the maximum CPU cooler height would allow a top-notch cooler that sits 1 or 2 mm from the side panel, that would allow maximum air intake & should create maximum positive pressure on the CPU side to force the hot air up & out of the chassis…

I know it would make the footprint larger, and the overall volume would approach that of the A4-SFX (without being able to run full length GPUs), but I would love to see a mini-tower like this that is able to run the Cryorig C1 CPU cooler… But that is 74mm in total height… /sadface

 

[Firewolfy]

I have to say, I have been in a bit of a holding pattern lately. The new 1070 and 1080 and the rx480 have all been full size premieres, so no new tech for itx.

UNTIL NOW!!!!

KarateOC on another thread I read broke the news that Gigabyte just released a 1070 itx!!!!!

It is a bit tall at 5.16" or 131mm, but it fits in the MI-6. There is 10mm of space above it. The peg jack is on lower part of the top of the card so there is room for the connector. Woo hoo!


/now back to your regularly scheduled programming/

 

[Boil]

Looks good, but I really want to see what Asus comes up with for a mITX 1070…

 

[Firewolfy]

LOL, had to tweak the thread title a bit.....

 

[Boil]

Nice…!

 

[Firewolfy]

Over on SFF, Ill did a height estimate from a Gigabyte 1070 ITX photo and got 5.4" to highest point. And maybe 5.2" or less to the recessed connector on the top. I have 5.57" of space, which leaves about .37" left for the connector.

But the connector and cable bend takes at least .5". Pictured below is a "standard" style connector I measured. I checked it against the MB 4-pin and the connector height is the same. I'm assumed most 4, 6 and 8 pin connectors are similar to this, -except the special low profile type. Since this cable is coming from the PSU, it would take a special cable build to put a low profile connector on the end.

So....the Gigabyte 1070itx may not quite fit, without a cable mod. It needs about .13" more.

I have space to move the GPU PCIE bracket lower. I'll check the model to verify.

----man that is a fat card----

 

[TriangleDragon]

Awesome case, love that it supports larger CPU coolers.

If I had any feedback it would be that the top of the case matched the metal panels on the sides.

It's probably way to early to start asking this but when do you think I can own one?

 

[pendragon1]

I cant find the original post I had about this but you can cut the pcie connector down quite a bit to make it low profle or use an extension if you don't want to cut the original. like this:


would that give the room you guys need?

there is also instructions on how to make it right angled here(its german but click the first spoiler for pics):
[Guide] How-to Thread für einen abgewinkelten PCIe Stecker

 

[Firewolfy]

Awesome case, love that it supports larger CPU coolers.

If I had any feedback it would be that the top of the case matched the metal panels on the sides.

It's probably way to early to start asking this but when do you think I can own one?

TriangleD--

Yeah it will support up to 63mm cooler so a lot of the 100w or so coolers, and I'm trying to get to 65 or 67 to fit a few more models. We'll see if I can get there.

The top is the same color. The light source on that top view render gave weird results. I'll have to fix that.

Well I'm having prototypes made right now, and in the next month or so will be testing. I don't have production timing yet. After testing I'll try to gauge interest and if production is feasible.

There are at least 2 production options: do a Kickstarter or just do a limited qty run.

 

[thehack]

You can also do a group buy method. Every once a while offer up a production run.

 

[Firewolfy]

I cant find the original post I had about this but you can cut the pcie connector down quite a bit to make it low profle or use an extension if you don't want to cut the original. like this:


would that give the room you guys need?

there is also instructions on how to make it right angled here(its german but click the first spoiler for pics):
[Guide] How-to Thread für einen abgewinkelten PCIe Stecker

Pen--
Great info! Thx.
I'm working on the model today and it looks like I'm getting the clearance needed. Good to have the connector mod in our back pocket. You never know if another mfgr might try top giga on size!

 

[Firewolfy]

Good point. Run it like the M1.

 

[TriangleDragon]

TriangleD--

Yeah it will support up to 63mm cooler so a lot of the 100w or so coolers, and I'm trying to get to 65 or 67 to fit a few more models. We'll see if I can get there.

That would be very cool. Although I read that the Scythe Big Shuriken 2 is capable of cooling a 130W CPU. I'm not sure if that is completely true.

Personally I think the choice you have made for a short graphics card and larger CPU heat sink is the logical one. For me it's a better design both practically and aesthetically than the Dan A4. So I hope there is enough interest in the case to make production worthwhile for you.

Also to mention on aesthetics again, I think the minimalist front panel looks great, as do the slightly smoothed corners on the side and top panels. The rear power switch is neat too. For me though, one thing that always looks beautiful is the blasted aluminium finish of Streacom and Apple products. I'm not sure if that's an achievable look? But I would pay a premium for it.

Also just putting this out there but I work with 3D graphics quite a lot. So if you need some assistance rendering then I'd be happy to help you out. It looks to me you're handling it well on your own though!