BLOODBORNE - Gamescom gameplay trailer

Ihavetheelderscrolls said:
Strongly disagree and I bet most other gamers would agree...If Dark Souls isn't challenging/hard then what is?

ANYTHING challenging is trial and error, almost by definition. How the hell can you have a challenging game and have it NOT be trial and error? haha

I can think of at least a half dozen bosses that are VERY difficult and just require good timing and practice. There's loads of facets of DS games that make them challenging and honestly very few instances of a "trap door" type scenario.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I will CS as an example. It takes leagues more skill to be good at counter strike than it does dark souls, its not even close really. Dark souls is about patience and learning mechanics but even then the game world can still kill you. Taking skill out of the equation. It is the reason dark souls was coined a trial & error simulator and I agree completely. Cheap deaths and terrible AI can only get you so far. The standout of souls is the invasions and the PVP. Without that the game wouldn't have near the cult following.
 
I bit on the Gamestop PS3 trade-in yesterday and picked up a PS4. Didn't even know about this game until I heard some guy in the store talking about it.

Went ahead and ordered a copy from Amazon (along with a 500GB 850 EVO, so much for my trade-in savings!) so that I actually have a game besides TLOU!
 
naticus said:
I disagree. I will CS as an example. It takes leagues more skill to be good at counter strike than it does dark souls, its not even close really. Dark souls is about patience and learning mechanics but even then the game world can still kill you. Taking skill out of the equation. It is the reason dark souls was coined a trial & error simulator and I agree completely. Cheap deaths and terrible AI can only get you so far. The standout of souls is the invasions and the PVP. Without that the game wouldn't have near the cult following.
Click to expand...

I Wanna Be The Boshy skill > CS
 
naticus said:
Yes because walking around a corner and falling into a pit, that is only known by falling into it and dying and having to do an hours worth of traversal is fun right? :rolleyes:

The dark souls games are not hard. They are patience and trial & error simulators. Bloodborne appears to be a break away from that mold and that sounds great to me.
Click to expand...

This guy gets it.

Ihavetheelderscrolls said:
Strongly disagree and I bet most other gamers would agree...If Dark Souls isn't challenging/hard then what is?
Click to expand...

Most gamers prefer simplistic games. That is why CoD sells. Dark Souls merges the simplistic formula with cheap mechanics/instances that the player can not anticipate for.

Quick example:
- Driving a car in a straight line for 1 mile. Most would agree that this is a simple task.

- Driving a car in a straight line for 1 mile, but there is a 30% chance it will randomly explode killing the driver. Is this actually more difficult for the driver to accomplish? You do the exact same simple task, except the car is rigged to blow up in an attempt to make the otherwise simple task have a lower chance of success. You aren't a good driver and certainly didn't accomplish a noteworthy feat by simply not having your car blow up.

Sadly this kind of nonsense "difficulty" is so prevalent in the game industry these days. I'd take a brain dead easy game over a brain dead game that insta-kills you with no way to anticipate it.
 
Flogger23m said:
Sadly this kind of nonsense "difficulty" is so prevalent in the game industry these days. I'd take a brain dead easy game over a brain dead game that insta-kills you with no way to anticipate it.
Click to expand...

These days? literately every single difficult game from the NES days used the exact same idea the souls games do and they were fucking great.
 
naticus said:
I disagree. I will CS as an example. It takes leagues more skill to be good at counter strike than it does dark souls, its not even close really. Dark souls is about patience and learning mechanics but even then the game world can still kill you. Taking skill out of the equation. It is the reason dark souls was coined a trial & error simulator and I agree completely. Cheap deaths and terrible AI can only get you so far. The standout of souls is the invasions and the PVP. Without that the game wouldn't have near the cult following.
Click to expand...

Ummm well if you are going to use a totally FPS multiplayer based game as a comparison let's trump that with running a triathlon. They're about equivalent. When I said "give me a harder game" I meant first person campaign, not some game that's purely PvP based...unless you're trying to tell me the CS campaign is hard?

I'm not saying "dark souls isn't trial and error"...I'm saying almost by definition, "hard" means trial and error. Comparing it to a game that is purely pvp...is apples to oranges.
 
"trial and error" implies that the only way to progress is to die/error several times in a sort of attrition. Implies that you can't observe and learn about things and rely on mechanics and knowledge to compensate for the new things. Therein lies the big joke on the player, embedded in the meta aspects of the souls games. You become so focused on certain end goals, you forget to pay attention or otherwise don't even realize what it is you are actually doing. The game isn't built around attrition. You are responsible for your own attrition.

Almost nothing about the souls games is pure trial and error. The souls games test your patience and your precision. Really, if you are very careful, take your time, and take care with each step: you might be surprised at just how much new territory you can clear.

However, many many gamers are conditioned for quick gratification. Expecting games to pander to them, hand them rewards/advancement. and allow them relatively large grace periods to perform attacks on enemies or otherwise think about what to do. Rarely requiring much in the way of defense, careful planning, or stretching mechanics very far. Many games rarely present much danger from their enemies, let alone the environment/level design. A lot of games even eschew skill based mechanics all together, in favor of contextual features which are sometimes so unintuitive; yeah, there's your trial and error. Or......where is the trial in the first place? I'm 'fighting' this huge group of enemies!------who stand around and give me all day to press the next button. and the game even slows down for me, letting me know when to press and making sure I don't miss my chance to chain the next single button take-down......

The souls games are not trial and error. They actually present trial, at all. Which is why many fans are so passionate and fixated on the souls games. Because they actually require something of you. It's a tough love indeed. Absent are many player serving earmarks of other modern games, in favor of actual gameplay.

The souls games are not perfect. There are certainly some key areas in which they could do a lot to really drive forward the gameplay. It can often boil down to patterns and many situations can be started with a couple of key mechanics. And Dark Souls 2 has a problem where sometimes it simply stacks together previous challenges, rather than presenting stuff which at least feels somewhat new. Even though we might feel a little tired after 3 games: it still remains that the Souls games require a lot more from the player, than the average modern game. and that's a good thing. That's what we love about them.
 
Last edited:
^great post chameleoneel.

calling souls games trial and error just proves that youre doing it wrong.

just because you wanna rush through an area doesnt mean youre expected or supposed to. so dont complain when you're punished for it.

souls games arent hard. its just that you need to almost unlearn what the past 15 years of gaming has allowed which is that being careless and haphazard is fine, the end of the game is only a few QTEs, CGIs and few hours away

I can already tell most who post this "its too hard durrrr" arw probably no older than 21-22. seriously...you dont know what a hard game is. go play battletoads, magician lord, super ghouls and ghosts... ffs. souls games are a cake walk.
 
actually there are a few trial and error sections...namely bed of chaos and dragon god. but Miyazaki has stated that those were poorly designed bosses shoehorned in at the last minute. bed of chaos still kills me routinely due to the RNG of its final form
 
Game is so Dark looking yet It's depressing as hell I hope it has to opposite effect on me....
 
IMO, most of the bosses at least have some element of trial and error. If you've never faced them before you have no idea what they're going to do and how/where to dodge. No amount of observation can fix that you have no idea what to do when you first face them. It doesn't mean you can't beat them on your first try, but you still walked in clueless and you're just as likely to die in 10 seconds as to win.
 
Reality said:
actually there are a few trial and error sections...namely bed of chaos and dragon god. but Miyazaki has stated that those were poorly designed bosses shoehorned in at the last minute. bed of chaos still kills me routinely due to the RNG of its final form
Click to expand...

Bed of Chaos has ruined a few attempts of mine to do a deathless Dark Souls run. Probably the only truly aggravating moment for me :(
 
I really want to know what a "hard" game is...I don't think Dark Souls is stupid challenging...but I think it's more challenging than 95% of the games I play...so it's a relative comparison.

So...if Dark Souls isn't hard, what RPG/Action oriented game IS hard?

I should add to get us back on track here...either way...I am bribing my buddy to borrow his PS4 for this game. I cannot WAIT to play this game. Hard or not, it looks just fun as hell. I don't see the replay value like Souls games but even if there's 60 hours of gameplay in it...I'll be happy. I always play Souls games very slowly on the first playthrough, no stone unturned.
 
Ihavetheelderscrolls said:
So...if Dark Souls isn't hard, what RPG/Action oriented game IS hard?
Click to expand...

I'm with you. I grew up in the era of simple 80's games and games that were artificially hard to get you to dump more quarters into them. I think the Dark Souls games are as difficult as any of them. That includes TMNT, Battletoads, Rush & Attack, Ghosts & Goblins, etc.
You don't have to start all over every time you screw up, but it's not like Dark Souls is overly forgiving either.
If it isn't hard...what is?
 
Domingo said:
I think the Dark Souls games are as difficult as any of them. That includes TMNT, Battletoads, Rush & Attack, Ghosts & Goblins
Click to expand...

Dude. Dark Souls isn't even in the same realm as Ghosts and Goblins. Nothing is. Maybe loop 5 of Gradius 3, but Dark Souls is cake and rainbows compared to that masochistic "game". EVERYTHING is random. There is no trail and error, memorization, nothing. Just straight up, don't blink once or you are dead. THAT is a hard game. DS doesn't even compare. Nothing does. And that game even mocks you into thinking you beat it your first go round, only to throw you back at the beginning to play the entire game again(harder mode too) to actually beat the game. If you want to torture/hate someone, you give them G&G. (I'm waiting for some delusional autist to reply saying its easy...)
 
LeviathanZERO said:
Dude. Dark Souls isn't even in the same realm as Ghosts and Goblins. Nothing is. Maybe loop 5 of Gradius 3, but Dark Souls is cake and rainbows compared to that masochistic "game". EVERYTHING is random. There is no trail and error, memorization, nothing. Just straight up, don't blink once or you are dead. THAT is a hard game. DS doesn't even compare. Nothing does. And that game even mocks you into thinking you beat it your first go round, only to throw you back at the beginning to play the entire game again(harder mode too) to actually beat the game. If you want to torture/hate someone, you give them G&G. (I'm waiting for some delusional autist to reply saying its easy...)
Click to expand...

Well I'll concede on that one...I have nightmares about that game. I vividly remember playing that game at my friend's house...I spent WEEKS trying to beat the game...I wanted to throw the console out the window when I finally "beat it" and realized you had to go again. I never did beat that game...ever. lol THAT game is nothing like Dark Souls...

But I was hoping for a more modern game? Within the last 8 years haha
 
Granted it's been a long time, but I was able to complete both Ghosts & Goblins and Ghouls & Ghosts when I was around 10.
At the same time, I can't play any of the spaceship 1-hit-kill games at all. I just suck at them...although I did win Life Force and R-Type.
 
Domingo said:
Granted it's been a long time, but I was able to complete both Ghosts & Goblins and Ghouls & Ghosts when I was around 10.
At the same time, I can't play any of the spaceship 1-hit-kill games at all. I just suck at them...although I did win Life Force and R-Type.
Click to expand...

Beating Life Force without the Konami Code is quite an accomplishment :D
 
I used to be a better player in the NES era than I am now. I remember thinking that the first Ninja Gaiden and Street Fighter 2010 being the hardest to me back then. Both had insanely hard (and unforgiving) final sequences. I won Ninja Gaiden once. I don't think I ever did complete SF 2020.
 
Armored Core never got the love it deserved.

6/10 Bad Controls, vague convoluted Japanese storyline, overpowered AI with non-nonsensical character creation.

Oh wait were taking about Bloodborne and Dark Souls :confused:
 
chameleoneel said:
"trial and error" implies that the only way to progress is to die/error several times in a sort of attrition
Click to expand...

trial and error doesn't have to mean a negative thing...you do have to die/error a lot in order to dominate the game...but it's always fair...there are barely any cheap deaths...yes you can get run over by a boulder thrown from the top of a set of stairs but there are enough audio and visual cues in most cases to alert you to what's coming...boss fights are pretty much all trial and error...see what works, what they are resistant to, what unique movesets they have etc

I still haven't pulled the trigger on the PS4 but am pretty sure I will on Monday at the latest...
 
I found an article comparing load times for PS4 games between disc and digital copies, and saw that there's a notable reduction in load times by going digital (probably because there is no need to do continual disc checks). Decided to cancel my physical copy and just ordered the digital version off PSN. Figure if I've gone so far as to stick an SSD in, I might as well get all the benefit.

I guess you can't resell with digital, but I usually hang onto games until they're worthless anyways.
 
jolli said:
I found an article comparing load times for PS4 games between disc and digital copies, and saw that there's a notable reduction in load times by going digital (probably because there is no need to do continual disc checks). Decided to cancel my physical copy and just ordered the digital version off PSN. Figure if I've gone so far as to stick an SSD in, I might as well get all the benefit.

I guess you can't resell with digital, but I usually hang onto games until they're worthless anyways.
Click to expand...

link to the article? Seems odd as I thought the only disc checks would be during boot up. Physical or Digital its all playing off the HD.
 
I enjoy the Souls games as much as anyone, but I still have to scratch my head when I see people saying they are "fair."

No, they are not fair all the time.

1. Enemies weapons have no clipping (IE they can attack through a wall) whereas the players weapons have clipping and if you hit a wall it doesn't go through. This drove me nuts in DS2, go around a wall only to have an aggro enemy hit "Through it" and get the last hit on you whereas if they couldn't hit through the wall you would have made it. This is especially apparent on those things iwth the really really long arms in that dark area with all the little houses they are in.

2. Traps, unless there's a message or any other sign when you spring a trap and die, that's not exactly "fair" You die, you know its there now and can go around it, hence "trial and error" like someone else mentioned earlier.

I enjoy the difficulty of the games and that is part of the charm, but even I can see when some things aren't as fair as people make them out to be.
 
jolli said:
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Genera...y-and-Download-Storage-Performance-Boot-Times

Who knows if the methodology is sound, but if true may be a reason to lean digital. The thing that used to bug me the most about consoles is load times, so I will do what I can to decrease them.
Click to expand...

The worst part about consoles for me is the noise. Both the ps3 and ps4 drives are so loud I can't keep them in the same room. That's the big draw of going digital. Boot times are a nice bonus.
 
Stiler said:
1. Enemies weapons have no clipping (IE they can attack through a wall) whereas the players weapons have clipping and if you hit a wall it doesn't go through. This drove me nuts in DS2, go around a wall only to have an aggro enemy hit "Through it" and get the last hit on you whereas if they couldn't hit through the wall you would have made it. This is especially apparent on those things iwth the really really long arms in that dark area with all the little houses they are in
Click to expand...

only time this really annoyed me was during the Capra Demon fight in DS1...there's little room to move around in that area and when walking up those steps you really have to aim your weapon carefully as you'll most likely hit the wall before any of the dogs...really caused me some rage moments when I first started playing the game
 
PlayStation Noise? Lack of Space fighting the Capra Demon? Dark Souls isn't fair?

Get Out!!!!!
 
Stiler said:
I enjoy the Souls games as much as anyone, but I still have to scratch my head when I see people saying they are "fair."

No, they are not fair all the time.

1. Enemies weapons have no clipping (IE they can attack through a wall) whereas the players weapons have clipping and if you hit a wall it doesn't go through. This drove me nuts in DS2, go around a wall only to have an aggro enemy hit "Through it" and get the last hit on you whereas if they couldn't hit through the wall you would have made it. This is especially apparent on those things iwth the really really long arms in that dark area with all the little houses they are in.

2. Traps, unless there's a message or any other sign when you spring a trap and die, that's not exactly "fair" You die, you know its there now and can go around it, hence "trial and error" like someone else mentioned earlier.

I enjoy the difficulty of the games and that is part of the charm, but even I can see when some things aren't as fair as people make them out to be.
Click to expand...

I kill enemies through walls all the time in Dark Souls, not sure about DS2

Which traps in DS aren't avoidable? DS1/Demon's Souls specifically since DS2 wasn't even made by the same group of designers

The Fire Drake on the bridge near the Sunlight Altar can be avoided as long as you're wearing headphones, that one seems to kill a lot of people because they aren't looking at the bridge and seeing that it's clearly burnt with dead corpses littered throughout
 
are people already playing this in other parts of the world?...so PS games have no unlock?...meaning if I get a copy of the game 2 months early then I can play it?
 
polonyc2 said:
are people already playing this in other parts of the world?...so PS games have no unlock?...meaning if I get a copy of the game 2 months early then I can play it?
Click to expand...

People have been able to buy the game at US retailers who put it on the shelves early. There is no unlock required and the day one patch is already on PSN for anyone who got the game early (or has a review copy).
 
ocellaris said:
People have been able to buy the game at US retailers who put it on the shelves early. There is no unlock required and the day one patch is already on PSN for anyone who got the game early (or has a review copy).
Click to expand...

That's not the day one patch. They are pushing another patch out on release day, supposedly to help the 50 second load times.

There's plenty of people streaming the game on twitch right now as well. Course its all wack-a-mole chasing, but thats because idiots on twitch are jealous and are reporting the streams.
 
LeviathanZERO said:
That's not the day one patch. They are pushing another patch out on release day, supposedly to help the 50 second load times.

There's plenty of people streaming the game on twitch right now as well. Course its all wack-a-mole chasing, but thats because idiots on twitch are jealous and are reporting the streams.
Click to expand...

do you have a source for this? haven't heard there's a second patch

I find it unlikely. "that's not the day 1 patch.", well obviously people need to install that 2.6GB patch, are you saying there are going to be two Day 1 patches? Sony isn't going to just delete that 2.6GB patch from existance, figuring people have already installed it, so it's clearly for something.

So either patch 1.01 IS the day 1 patch, or there's going to be TWO patches that we have to download on Day 1, or a larger patch that incorporates both 1.01 + whatever the second patch is.

Edit: so another scenario that might explain the long load times: The patch that's been released is in fact the Day 1 patch that adds multiplayer/etc. The long load times are because the game is trying to ping the From Soft. servers which aren't up yet, and they're timing out before the game loads you back into the game

Found that nugget on reddit, it's just speculation though
 
Last edited:
50 second load times????...seriously?...my PC is laughing now...anyone know what time the review embargo lifts?...too much to expect tonight at midnight?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top