BenQ GW2x50(HM) thread.

Interesting happens here tonight.

My situation ended me up with a Asus Radeon 7850. Never having an ATI card before I went playing through the options in the control panel.

One option I found of interest under Display Color (Digital Flat Panel) was the check box under color temperature to use EDID data.

I checked that box and hit apply and all of a sudden my green hue on everything was gone! Colors are still not 100% and gamma is a bit off but I feel I can actually accomplish proper calibration now. Overall I am much happier with the picture by just checking that one box.

What does this setting do exactly that it has made such a dramatic effect?
 
Bun-Bun said:
Interesting happens here tonight.

My situation ended me up with a Asus Radeon 7850. Never having an ATI card before I went playing through the options in the control panel.

One option I found of interest under Display Color (Digital Flat Panel) was the check box under color temperature to use EDID data.

I checked that box and hit apply and all of a sudden my green hue on everything was gone! Colors are still not 100% and gamma is a bit off but I feel I can actually accomplish proper calibration now. Overall I am much happier with the picture by just checking that one box.

What does this setting do exactly that it has made such a dramatic effect?
Click to expand...

When you plug in your display, your GPU attempts to figure out what the display is and then tries to configure the color. Nvidia's drivers are screwed up for any display it thinks is an HDTV. I've only seen it over HDMI personally, but I've heard it will do it over DVI as well on Linux. What you just did was told your GPU, "Hey, I want to use 8-bits per pixel, not 6-bits you retard!"

On my GPU, before using the driver hack to get my proper colors, my display would look washed out. I didn't have any colored tint, and the "fix" at the time was to use a 16-235 black level range. Since the driver hack, I'm now on 0-255, as it should be.
 
Regardless of its flaws Fry's has the GW2450 on sale (in store only) for $145. That's really cheap. Both of them in my area (Sacramento) have them in stock and so to the others around California.
 
It went from $209->179->169->145 now. Dont even know if its worth it even at this price considering all the problems it has(banding, viewing angles..etc). Glad I returned mine when I had the chance. Maybe BenQ realized the short falls of this monitor and is pricing it accordingly.
 
I know someone that has bought the GW2750HM and he is happy with it, if i have time i go and check this Monitor out.
 
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A review of GW2450HM - http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/benq_gw2450hm.htm
The monitor seems almost perfect (after calibration), except for the viewing angles (standart fo AMVA) and somewhat slow pixel response time. The strange thing is that in that thread, a lot of people hated the GW2450, but according to that review it seems really good to me.
 
Was just about to come here and post the TFTcentral review, but already got beaten to it. So whats the go? Everyone in this thread seemed to hate their GW2450HM, but tftcentral bring it in as almost perfect after calibration, with very little BLB, a big contrast ratio, very dark blacks, and even a really impressive pixel response time.

Not sure whether to jump on one or not?
 
Either they are full of it, or benq is shipping different panels to Europe/reviewer's. That review suggests the monitor is significantly better than my 244t and comparable to my tv; my pictures clearly prove that it is not.
 
Bun-Bun said:
Either they are full of it, or benq is shipping different panels to Europe/reviewer's. That review suggests the monitor is significantly better than my 244t and comparable to my tv; my pictures clearly prove that it is not.
Click to expand...

Not sure what to make of it. They really give it a glowing review, and I'm positive we've all trusted tftcentral in the past. These monitors have JUST hit Australian shores and I'm really keen to pick one up, given it's the same results as the one in the review. Also interested to see how it would compare to the 27" version. Might pick one up tomorrow and see how it goes.

EDIT:

Can anyone that still has a GW2x50(HM) confirm it its a HM model like the tftcentral model, and also give their ICC profile a shot?
 
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what are the issues people have reported here though if we look at it?

several people talking about a green bias - TFTCentral noticed that and commented on it from the 'out of the box' tests. Seems possible to correct this through profiling and using a calibration device. i believe the other owners in this thread were doing "by eye" calibrations and it's probably not possible to correct gamma curves for a start very well through just the OSD controls. might explain why some people unable to get it looking right with just a basic OSD change

Their unit had no backlight bleed as evidenced by the photos, but that kind of thing may well vary from panel to panel.

some people moaning about viewing angle issues, with colour and gamma shift being quite obvious - TFTCentral said the same, and that's a "feature" of AMVA still

pixel responsiveness has improved a lot with latest gen of AMVA panel, we saw similar things from Prad.de in their tests of other recent AMVA screens confirming things had gotten better in that area.


There's a chance results could vary as well between the GW2450, GW2450M and GW2450HM models
 
I would be happy to see a TFT Central review of the GW2750HM model especially because the 27" model is 70€ more and i don't want to pay 70€ more for only 3".
 
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PrpnNightmare said:
Not sure what to make of it. They really give it a glowing review, and I'm positive we've all trusted tftcentral in the past. These monitors have JUST hit Australian shores and I'm really keen to pick one up, given it's the same results as the one in the review. Also interested to see how it would compare to the 27" version. Might pick one up tomorrow and see how it goes.

EDIT:

Can anyone that still has a GW2x50(HM) confirm it its a HM model like the tftcentral model, and also give their ICC profile a shot?
Click to expand...

Mine was the HM version.

Drags said:
what are the issues people have reported here though if we look at it?

several people talking about a green bias - TFTCentral noticed that and commented on it from the 'out of the box' tests. Seems possible to correct this through profiling and using a calibration device. i believe the other owners in this thread were doing "by eye" calibrations and it's probably not possible to correct gamma curves for a start very well through just the OSD controls. might explain why some people unable to get it looking right with just a basic OSD change

Their unit had no backlight bleed as evidenced by the photos, but that kind of thing may well vary from panel to panel.

some people moaning about viewing angle issues, with colour and gamma shift being quite obvious - TFTCentral said the same, and that's a "feature" of AMVA still

pixel responsiveness has improved a lot with latest gen of AMVA panel, we saw similar things from Prad.de in their tests of other recent AMVA screens confirming things had gotten better in that area.


There's a chance results could vary as well between the GW2450, GW2450M and GW2450HM models
Click to expand...

My biggest gripe with the GW2450HM was it had no better black levels than my old 244T which was the main reason I was out for a new monitor in the first place. TFT review claims excellent black levels that should be far superior to my 244T and comparable to my Samsung TV. My pictures in previous posts prove this to not be the case.

Also my L245WP had less ghosting than the GW2450HM had as well.

Seems like to me a different panel. Either panel lottery going on with this display or Europe is getting different panels.
 
Bun-Bun said:
Mine was the HM version.



My biggest gripe with the GW2450HM was it had no better black levels than my old 244T which was the main reason I was out for a new monitor in the first place. TFT review claims excellent black levels that should be far superior to my 244T and comparable to my Samsung TV. My pictures in previous posts prove this to not be the case.

Also my L245WP had less ghosting than the GW2450HM had as well.

Seems like to me a different panel. Either panel lottery going on with this display or Europe is getting different panels.
Click to expand...

Likely panel lottery as my 2750GM exhibits none of the issues that I've read on these forums. My mirrors the Prad and TFTCentral reviews. I don't even have the green bias that many have had. I haven't calibrated it as I've been very happy with the sRGB mode. Prad's review put this at about 4800:1 static contrast, while TFTCentral's review of the 2450HM put the monitor at just under 3k:1 static contrast. While it's possible that the 24" version has a lesser quality screen, at those numbers, a low black of 0.08 versus 0.012 would be the difference in those calculations.
 
Bun-Bun said:
Mine was the HM version.

My biggest gripe with the GW2450HM was it had no better black levels than my old 244T which was the main reason I was out for a new monitor in the first place. TFT review claims excellent black levels that should be far superior to my 244T and comparable to my Samsung TV. My pictures in previous posts prove this to not be the case.
Click to expand...

out of interest did you measure the black depth and CR on either screen with a colorimeter or anything? perhaps while the panel does have a lower black point, the perceieved contrast and the gamma offset was causing these conclusions? the AMVA panels should certainly have a lower black point than an older S-PVA panel, although those panels were always pretty good in terms of contrast/black point

Also my L245WP had less ghosting than the GW2450HM had as well.
Click to expand...

very possible, big improvements in AMVA it seems but still might not match TN Film panels and fast IPS panels
 
Medion said:
Likely panel lottery as my 2750GM exhibits none of the issues that I've read on these forums. My mirrors the Prad and TFTCentral reviews. I don't even have the green bias that many have had. I haven't calibrated it as I've been very happy with the sRGB mode. Prad's review put this at about 4800:1 static contrast, while TFTCentral's review of the 2450HM put the monitor at just under 3k:1 static contrast. While it's possible that the 24" version has a lesser quality screen, at those numbers, a low black of 0.08 versus 0.012 would be the difference in those calculations.
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very possible there's different performance from the panels. TFTCentral meaured luminance and black point across the full range of backlight adjustments and resulting contrast ratio so gives you an idea as opposed to just a single measurement which could have contained errors. looks like the GW2450 can't reach the 4800:1 that the 27" model can which is a shame. Still bery good though at ~3000:1!
 
@Medion
Prad did not review any of the GW models.

@Drags
After reading a lot of Monitor reviews i can say that the new AMVA with overdiver match the IPS panels.
 
I've never been able to calibrate a monitor by "eye". I finally broke down several years ago and bought a Spyder colormeter to calibrate mine and it makes all the difference.

I have no experience with the BenQ GW models, but that $145 at Fry's for the 24" (in store only) seems really tempting. Junky TN monitors aren't usually that cheap for that size. If I needed a monitor of that size I would absolutely take the gamble and test one.
 
I wonder if it's simply a matter of calibrated monitor vs uncalibrated? As I think I recall the prad review stating the samsung 650 (w/amva) couldn't be properly calibrated by eye. The same could apply to the BenQ.

As for black levels, that is a bit of an oddity. Unless perhaps screen uniformity was off on the monitors people got here? One screenshot here of the BenQ showed really deep black levels, but only in the center of the screen. The rest was a little washed out.

The ghosting and angle problems seem to be inherent to amva. Although for angles, I would have assumed there to be more of an issue with horizontal than vertical. Yet the review states vertical may be even worse. AMVA different than S-PVA as to vertical angles? When my S-PVA display was working, I noticed horizontal color shift (but not as bad as TN panels), yet vertical was perfectly fine (unless I tried some insane angle I'd never actually use). I assumed all VA variants were similar as far as angles go, but I guess maybe not.

And I agree at $145, it's worth a try if you live near a Fry's. None in my area, or I'd give one a try myself.
 
Drags said:
out of interest did you measure the black depth and CR on either screen with a colorimeter or anything? perhaps while the panel does have a lower black point, the perceieved contrast and the gamma offset was causing these conclusions? the AMVA panels should certainly have a lower black point than an older S-PVA panel, although those panels were always pretty good in terms of contrast/black point



very possible, big improvements in AMVA it seems but still might not match TN Film panels and fast IPS panels
Click to expand...

I do not have any testing equipment. But I took pictures earlier on in the thread using the same exposure, shutter, and aperture settings comparing the GW2450HM to my 244T, L245WP, S24A650 and Samusng TV. The GW2450HM did not have the black levels the reviews claim they do.

Also the L245WP I was comparing ghosting with is also a VA panel. Specifically a P-MVA.
 
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Namelessme said:
I wonder if it's simply a matter of calibrated monitor vs uncalibrated? As I think I recall the prad review stating the samsung 650 (w/amva) couldn't be properly calibrated by eye. The same could apply to the BenQ.

As for black levels, that is a bit of an oddity. Unless perhaps screen uniformity was off on the monitors people got here? One screenshot here of the BenQ showed really deep black levels, but only in the center of the screen. The rest was a little washed out.

The ghosting and angle problems seem to be inherent to amva. Although for angles, I would have assumed there to be more of an issue with horizontal than vertical. Yet the review states vertical may be even worse. AMVA different than S-PVA as to vertical angles? When my S-PVA display was working, I noticed horizontal color shift (but not as bad as TN panels), yet vertical was perfectly fine (unless I tried some insane angle I'd never actually use). I assumed all VA variants were similar as far as angles go, but I guess maybe not.

And I agree at $145, it's worth a try if you live near a Fry's. None in my area, or I'd give one a try myself.
Click to expand...

That brings back the question; do these review sites just measure in the center of the screen? If so that would be why the BenQ's are scoring well but not getting good impressions to actual users. My GW2450HM was dark in the center but it's gamma shift was horrendous.

That said the S24A650 still beats it accross the board, even though yes it can not be calibrated accurately with the OSD alone.
 
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I bought a GW2750HM today, 2 hours later, its back in the store and I have my money back. The gamma shift on it was an absolute joke. There was no green tint, no BLB, great blacks, and great colours, with an acceptable amount of ghosting, but my god, the gamma shift was horrendously bad.
 
Can you compare it to another *VA monitor? I think that's normal for almost all *VA panels. I hate it too, but it seems a lot of people that consider *VA superior to other technologies, care only about black levels and contrast.
On the other hand - IPS has problems with glow and BLB, so there is always some sort of compromise.
 
alike said:
Can you compare it to another *VA monitor? I think that's normal for almost all *VA panels. I hate it too, but it seems a lot of people that consider *VA superior to other technologies, care only about black levels and contrast.
On the other hand - IPS has problems with glow and BLB, so there is always some sort of compromise.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It depends on your tolerances, and for most people, IPS offers the best set of compromises. For gamers who want the least ghosting or smoothest framerates, TNs are the best. VAs are a niche product, IMO.

As for the gamma shift, there are certain solid colors that will look horrid, like the black-ish bar at the top of the Google main page. It fades to gray on either side. However, most colors don't do this. I've noticed no gamma shift in gaming, something that I absolutely could see on my previous TN panels.
 
My 244T is an old VA as well as my S24A650 is an AMVA. Both have much less gamma shift then these benq's.
 
Bun-Bun said:
My 244T is an old VA as well as my S24A650 is an AMVA. Both have much less gamma shift then these benq's.
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I'd have to see them next to mine to see it. All I can say definitively is that gamma shift on any TN I've used (about half a dozen in the past few months) was much worse than shift on this BenQ..
 
A-MVA Benq GW2450HM:
viewing_angles_small.jpg


S-PVA 2407WFP A04:
2407wfp.jpg


there was gamma shift on 2407wfp but very slight and even from diagonal angle picture was watchable. A-MVA and C-PVA are unwatchable from even slight angles, from diagonal angles their performance is just HORRIBLE!

So VA came down to being on par with TN. Worse!, actually some TN are better horizontally :eek: They fixed response time so maybe they will do something about viewing angles (gamma shift) with new revision. For now it's better to either wait or buy some nice IPS panel and be free from gamma shift :cool:

BTW. analyzing icc file from tftcentral reveals that calibration with RGB 100, 96, 98 do almost nothing
clipboard02fy.jpg
 
I am guessing the color shift problem has to do with the change in pixel structure from dual to mono... or whatever term they use.

S-PVA has that sort of weird double structure, while A-MVA and C-PVA are more singular. The latter may in theory provide cleaner text, but could then cause more angle problems.

Just guessing as to the reason. I had previously assumed color shift was the same for all VAs.
 
Namelessme said:
I am guessing the color shift problem has to do with the change in pixel structure from dual to mono... or whatever term they use.

S-PVA has that sort of weird double structure, while A-MVA and C-PVA are more singular. The latter may in theory provide cleaner text, but could then cause more angle problems.

Just guessing as to the reason. I had previously assumed color shift was the same for all VAs.
Click to expand...

I can only speak for the monitor in front of me, but the color shift is "different" than a TN. On a TN, the color shift was blatant and obnoxious. On my BenQ, if you move your head, it's like moving a light source. It looks like a natural change in color and not something that shouldn't be there. However, there are telltale cases where it is bad. The example that I keep using is the black bar atop the Google search page. Keeping your head stationary, it looks black in the center and grey on the outer edges. It should be a solid black line. However, the line itself is not black but a dark shade of grey. On an actual black (000000) line or bar there is zero noticeable shift. Trust me, if there was black to grey shift on these forums, then no way in hell would I have kept this monitor.

In the end, I don't know why I am one of the few people here (and seemingly the only one who owns one) defending this monitor. I know that I'm good at detecting the flaws that others are seeing. I'm very selective about this stuff. Over the last few months I've owned or purchased several monitors and had most in front of me at the same time. While most were TNs, I had some IPS in front of me as well. I chose this monitor not only over the TNs, but over a friggin Apple Cinema Display. Yes, like any monitor, it does have its drawbacks. But, it is still an excellent monitor all-around.

So it comes down to, what do you want in a monitor? Do you want minimal ghosting? Get a TN. 120hz? Get a 120hz TN. Near perfect viewing angles, and you can tolerate (relatively) poor blacks, contrast, and screen glow? Get an IPS. Do you want better black levels and contrast, but can tolerate some horizontal shift and visible ghosting? Get a VA.

For awhile now I had been jealous of my wife's ACD. It blew out my TN in everything except ghosting while gaming, and even then, the ghosting was tolerable. I didn't like the glossy screen, nor the glow, but black levels weren't too shabby. Movies looked horrid on my TN versus the ACD. Now? I prefer the BenQ. Darker movies look better on the BenQ while animated (Disney) movies in daylight tend to look a little better on the ACD. Black levels and contrast are much better on the BenQ. Viewing angles aren't a major issue on either as I sit in front of it, but no more vertical gamma lines as I had on the TN (even perfect posture couldn't avoid this). I can't see replacing this thing until OLED becomes the standard.

The only reason that I do not recommend this monitor on this forum is because this place seems to be very IPS-centric. Nothing wrong with that, but if you like IPS, why would I recommend VA? It's like recommending Burger King when someone asks for a good pizza place. So, I will continue to not recommend this monitor unless someone specifically asks for a gaming-capable VA panel, but I will continue to defend it when people speak in absolutes about how much it sucks. I don't know why they got the results that they did, but I will say that their results do not mirror those of Playwares, TFTCentral, nor the monitor in front of my eyes. So, just because their monitor sucked doesn't mean that every 2x50HM does. I'm proof of that, as are the aforementioned review sites.
 
My friend also says that his BenQ GW2750HM is 10 times better then his old SyncMaster 226BW.
 
Where are you located Medion? Where did you purchase yours?

There was very obvious gamma shift on [H] for me on the GW2450HM. All my TN's are better in respects to gamma shift vs the BenQ I had.

I love VA panels. I haven't bought anything else since my first one. But the BenQ was utter crap for me.

Then again I also use mine in a complete dark room. In an office setting I am sure it would perform better.
 
Bun-Bun said:
Where are you located Medion? Where did you purchase yours?
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I currently live in Shreveport, Louisiana. I ordered mine direct from BenQ.

Bun-Bun said:
There was very obvious gamma shift on [H] for me on the GW2450HM. All my TN's are better in respects to gamma shift vs the BenQ I had.
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I can definitely see gamma shift on mine as well. Often I have to look for it, while there are a few places (as previously mentioned) where it's blatantly obvious. Does [H] have any custom themes? On the standard red/black, there's no obvious gamma shift on mine, although if I look for it, there is some ever-so-slight shift on the horizontal red navigation bar. It's not noticeable unless I'm being picky and really looking for it.

Bun-Bun said:
I love VA panels. I haven't bought anything else since my first one. But the BenQ was utter crap for me.
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My HDTV is a Samsung S-PVA, and my BenQ doesn't come close to it for movies, and presumably everything else as well. I'd love it if there was a *VA-based PC monitor like that. But, my BenQ isn't close to being crap. I'm not doubting your assessment, just reiterating that my panel is the same as what Playwares and TFTCentral reviewed.

Bun-Bun said:
Then again I also use mine in a complete dark room. In an office setting I am sure it would perform better.
Click to expand...

I use mine in a well-lit home office next to a window. However, I do most of my browsing/gaming at night in a totally dark room. The only light is that obnoxious blue LED on my Dayton T-AMP (need to put some electrical tape over it). In a wide variety of lights this monitor has exceeded my expectations. I even have my Dreamcast hooked up to it now via VGA.
 
I was wery excited when I first read the review but then I re-checked the viewing angles image since it looked a bit weird.
It looks like viewing angles of the BenQ are massively inferior to c-PVA:

xkADP.jpg


GH4cu.jpg


Can any of you compare it in real life?

It took me a lot of time to kinda get used to the gamma shift on my EV2333 and it's still a bit annoying even now, even when I'm watching the monitor from a perfectly centered position.
Damn, I would have been able to replace both my CRT and LCD with this.
 
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those yellow colorizations are from W-LED backlight. NEC EX231Wp have W-LED C-PVA and look like this:
viewinganglessmall.jpg


I didn't had chance to see those new BenQ but I had older A-MVA BenQ and C-PVA F2380 (+ calibration probe so bad default gamma curve that caused black crush wasn't an issue) so I can compare those monitors. First most noticeable difference is black level: on C-PVA it stays pretty much the same from any angle and on A-MVA it get worse so all in all C-PVA have true stated contrast unlike A-MVA that have obviously worse black on sides/offangle. Other than that gamma shift on both monitors is similarly bad. C-PVA had more pronounced black crush.

generally if you are greatly annoyed by gamma shift then just get IPS...
 
Bun-Bun said:
Except IPS have horrible black levels and have weird glows.
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I received an ASUS PA248Q IPS on Monday. Great monitor in many ways (new model - 8 bit LED replacement for the PA246Q) but it does have somewhat irritating glowing from the bottom right corner. I can't for the life of me get it at the right angle to not notice it while playing Skyrim. Was bugging the hell out of me last night. It has a very adjustable stand and I was swiveling, tilting and raising it up and down to no avail. Finally just gave up and put up with the shimmering bottom corner. Black level seems fine to me though.
 
Strangely I have noticed several mentions of bleed or glow from the bottom right corner on a couple of IPS screens here... another one was the 23" IPS Dell. Is that a LED side effect, or an IPS issue, with some models?

And it is a bit odd that the BenQ would have such terrible angles. The Samsung 650 is a bit better as far as angles go, right? I assumed the Samsung used an older panel, so it'd seem odd that the newer tech would regress, unless it's a case of newer = cheaper, not better.
 
The samsung is better than the BenQ but it still has poor gamma shift. its contrast is better to begin with so it makes up for it.

However the S24A650D has worse gamma shift than my 244T or L245WP.
 
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How bad is the horizontal shift compared to a TN? TNs have gotten better at horizontal (although not as good as IPS), so it sounds like they are more or less the same.

Are people seeing shift sometimes without even moving their head (or minor head movements)?

When I owned a working S-PVA, I noticed a horizontal shift, definitely worse than IPS, but it was still acceptable to me. But it was a 4:3 screen... at 16:9, it might have annoyed me more.

I know some people have mentioned a 3D effect with some VA models, due to change in black hues, where one eye will see a different shade just due to the size of the screen. I am wondering if some of the reports of poor black levels on the BenQ may have to do with gamma shift, not uniformity. I know there have been a mention of black levels being darker in the center of the screen, while the remainder is washed out. But does that 'center' change depending on your position?
 
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