BenQ GW2x50(HM) thread.

Medion said:
Guys, I feel for you. There are some things that you mention (such as noticing ghosting) that could be sujective, so my input there doesn't help much. There are other things that I could measure that are more objective, and my 27" just isn't doing those things. I wish that I could get my hands on a 24" version to witness this myself.

As for running tests, I'll run any that I can, so just tell me what you need. A photo comparison to the ACD might not be happening because my wife and I don't want to deal with the hassle of messing with one of our desktops on a work day (I work Fri-Tue) with 2 kids to deal with. So, I'll just give the best impressions that I can in that regard.

I had previously gone through 4 of the best-reviewed non-120hz TN panels, and this by far beats those in every area except response time (which is close enough for me). There is no way they are using the same panel in those 24" models as the 27" model, based on what we've seen in this thread.

Edit: The only thing that I can think of is that the non-HM versions (what we got in North America) are using lower quality panels. Case in point, usually when a monitor is offered in both 24" and 27" variants, running the same resolution, the price difference isn't too significant. For Samsung, it's $30-$50. For the 2450 vs. 2750HM, it's $219 to $399 in BenQ's MSRP. That's more than just 3", speakers, and a DAC. There is clearly something going on there.
Click to expand...

Hey Medion,

Can you run that same ghosting test from Prad.de and take a picture with high shutter speed? The best I could manage was iso 1600 1/160 shutter, otherwise its gets too dark. Thanks in advance!

This one: http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/testsoftware/schlieren2.html
 
Bun-Bun said:
Take that black grey bar photo and take a picture like I did. That should be enough to compare our findings.
Click to expand...

Here it is in broad daylight. I'll do it again at night to get a better idea. Sorry for the camera quality, taken with SGS2.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tkscotukd35ewag/2012-06-15 16.02.55.jpg

twitch99 said:
Hey Medion,

Can you run that same ghosting test from Prad.de and take a picture with high shutter speed? The best I could manage was iso 1600 1/160 shutter, otherwise its gets too dark. Thanks in advance!

This one: http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/testsoftware/schlieren2.html
Click to expand...

I'll ask the better half, she's the professional photographer.
 
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I think I found my main problem in finding a new 1080 monitor - what I currently have: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/nec_20wgx2_phase2.htm Based on that review, it is true 8-bit color, glossy screen and it low response rate/little to no ghosting blur seems better than current TN panels designs.

Besides being old (I get a fair amount of image staying after having something on screen in one place for a few minutes, for a minute or so) and it being small (20 inch) with only 1050 resolution, I guess there is nothing on the market to compare to this monitor, so nothing new can compare.

Why or why has the industry gone down in quality so that nothing new compares to it. This NEC monitor is a 7 year old design. Devolution in the monitor industry? TVs seem to be better than they were, but monitors are going down???? I guess this is like the keyboard industry, where everyone now uses rubber-dome keyboards and very few people have any idea what a mechanical switch keyboard is like (yet ones who do know the difference will pay $100 for a 20 to 30 year old IBM M keyboard) - people don't care about quality anymore - just low price tag. Sorry for rant but frustrated in my month+ quest for a new monitor. Went through same thing for a keyboard recently.
 
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Crake8 said:
Is this the same Samsung: http://www.samsung.com/hk_en/consum...DS/XK-features?subsubtype=sa650-and-sa850-led ?
Click to expand...

Yes that is the one I bought.

Crake8 said:
Why or why has the industry gone down in quality so that nothing new compares to it. This NEC monitor is a 7 year old design. Devolution in the monitor industry? TVs seem to be better than they were, but monitors are going down????
Click to expand...

Recession. LED's. LED's made things worse while claiming they were better.

TV's have gotten worse too. At least in the mainstream segment. My buddies TV looks simply AMAZING. it is a two year old LCD. None of these new LED's can touch it for contrast, black levels, and color.

My Plasma looks amazing. But it was a $3600 TV so it damn well better.
 
Here's a quick video taken of the ghosting test, somewhat up close. It's on the high (middle for BenQ) setting, not premium. The trail is a tad better on premium, but it's black due to overcompensation.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/45jfxbcp0y2pp8t/2012-06-15 16.15.49.mp4

This video makes it look worse than it really is. Thanks to it being a video with background lighting, it won't ghost the same on your monitor as it does when you're actually using the flash page. Still, I'll get camera shots later if the wife is willing, and compare it at off/high/premium.
 
@Bun-Bun
thank for photos. Can you also make the same for new Samsung 650?

also is this new BenQ not semi-glossy?
I had BenQ VW2420H that was pretty much similar to this GW2450 from what I gathered. It was more glossy than semi-glossy C-PVA and I could easily see my reflection on monitor off or blacks when whites were in ~120cd/m2 or lower range. So they made it now matte or 650S is even more glossy? :rolleyes:

Crake8 said:
Why or why has the industry gone down in quality so that nothing new compares to it.
Click to expand...
just don't be ridiculous :eek:
 
XoR said:
just don't be ridiculous :eek:
Click to expand...

Read that review. I really do not think there is anything on the market comparable. I asked in a monitor forum about a current replacement for my NEC and many knowledgable posters responded there is none. I figured that opinion could not be true, so I tried finding some and could not. Maybe it is just there is no 1080 resolution. Perhaps the Apple 1440 is close but it is not comparable in response rate, cost $100 extra to get it to work with a PC and I do not want that high of resolution.

Anything in the 1080 resolution that is comparable? I do not mind spending $800 to $900 if there is but I cannot find one.

What is the best 1080 IPS now? The Dell U2312HM? That is probably a good monitor but not comparable.
 
Medion said:
This video makes it look worse than it really is. Thanks to it being a video with background lighting, it won't ghost the same on your monitor as it does when you're actually using the flash page. Still, I'll get camera shots later if the wife is willing, and compare it at off/high/premium.
Click to expand...

That is close to what I saw on the GW2450. Probably the 16ms to 25ms range. So with its AMA on,it is like the average TN and IPS panels in native mode with no over-ride on them.
 
Crake8 said:
That is close to what I saw on the GW2450. Probably the 16ms to 25ms range. So with its AMA on,it is like the average TN and IPS panels in native mode with no over-ride on them.
Click to expand...

Like I said though, that video makes it look worse than it really what. It was shot with a cell phone, and on top of that, it's playing on your monitor which WILL add some degree of ghosting to it.
 
Crake8 said:
Anything in the 1080 resolution that is comparable? I do not mind spending $800 to $900 if there is but I cannot find one.

What is the best 1080 IPS now? The Dell U2312HM? That is probably a good monitor but not comparable.
Click to expand...

Maybe the ST2220T would be close enough in comparison to the 20" NEC? 21.5" glossy, IPS, touchscreen. Negatives are no height adjustable stand and the screen is on the small side. Also not sure if response times would be so great for gaming.

If you want glossy and a larger screen, then you either go big, 27", or run into the same problem everyone else has... not much in the glossy/semiglossy category at smaller sizes.
 
Namelessme said:
Maybe the ST2220T would be close enough in comparison to the 20" NEC? 21.5" glossy, IPS, touchscreen. Negatives are no height adjustable stand and the screen is on the small side. Also not sure if response times would be so great for gaming.

If you want glossy and a larger screen, then you either go big, 27", or run into the same problem everyone else has... not much in the glossy/semiglossy category at smaller sizes.
Click to expand...

I guess ill cross my fingers that the glossy Dell rumor is true but so far only 27 inch noted.

My concern with 1440 is how long before I would have to get a new video card to keep high settings in games with it. I just got a 680GTX but only a single card and reports are some games can not do high setting at 1440 with it even now.
 
Crake8 said:
I guess ill cross my fingers that the glossy Dell rumor is true but so far only 27 inch noted.

My concern with 1440 is how long before I would have to get a new video card to keep high settings in games with it. I just got a 680GTX but only a single card and reports are some games can not do high setting at 1440 with it even now.
Click to expand...

Yep, which is why I haven't gotten a 27" screen either. I don't even really game on my PC, and I have the wimpiest of graphics as it is. And the rare time that I play a strategy game or RPG, I don't want to have to revert to a postage stamp size frame on my giant 27" screen, just so it's playable.

I too am hoping that Dell releases some glossy screens. I'd think with Win 8 coming out, we'll see more glossy touch screens too. I just hope they aren't all 27".

If money is no object for you (within reason), Eizo is coming out with a new Foris model, FS2333 ... IPS (or more likely PLS, if similar to their earlier model). It therefore may be semiglossy too. It should be good for gaming, but I expect its black levels will be so-so... and it'll be very expensive.
 
Namelessme said:
If money is no object for you (within reason), Eizo is coming out with a new Foris model, FS2333 ... IPS (or more likely PLS, if similar to their earlier model). It therefore may be semiglossy too. It should be good for gaming, but I expect its black levels will be so-so... and it'll be very expensive.
Click to expand...

That looks promising. Any idea of warranty issues are good or bad with that company?
 
Response Pics:

http://imageshack.us/f/94/gw2450hmpremium.png/
http://imageshack.us/f/265/gw2450hmhigh.png/
http://imageshack.us/f/405/gw2450hmoff.png/
http://imageshack.us/f/684/vh242h.png/

GW2450HM to the right of an Asus VH242H (TN)

dsc0104jj.jpg


That is not 1000:1 more contrast. Yes colors are better. But contrast is barely.

And here is black grey bars of the TN

dsc0108kn.jpg


Apparently I suck at holding the camera today...

Anyway as you can see the TN has far better horizontal shift then the GW2450HM A-MVA panel. And yes the GW2450HM's center is darker (higher contrast) the rest of the screen looks almost exactly like the TN. Stand in front of the GW2450HM where ever you move your head the high contrast follows.

XoR said:
@Bun-Bun
thank for photos. Can you also make the same for new Samsung 650?

also is this new BenQ not semi-glossy?
I had BenQ VW2420H that was pretty much similar to this GW2450 from what I gathered. It was more glossy than semi-glossy C-PVA and I could easily see my reflection on monitor off or blacks when whites were in ~120cd/m2 or lower range. So they made it now matte or 650S is even more glossy? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Yes I will.

The BenQ GW2450HM is not semi-glossy. It is medium matte. Very similar to my Samsung 244T.

These show them side by side and the difference in coating

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/266/dsc01241280.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/dsc01281280.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/542/dsc01291280.jpg/
 
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S24A650SSK to the left of GW2450HM

dsc0130m.jpg


Black grey bars of S24A650SSK

dsc0131jb.jpg


That was at the same settings I took the other ones. Wasn't open long enough to be able to see the bars in the middle. So I took another one and held the shutter for little over a second.

dsc0134r.jpg


Sorry I didn't hold my camera straight that time... But you get the point. The center of this screen is actually darker than my TV.

Response Pics:

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/2994/s24a650ssknormal.png
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/5180/s24a650sskfaster.png
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6697/s24a650sskfastest.png


And just for fun here is my TV.

dsc0133qv.jpg


http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/6077/samsung8000plasma.png


Is it so much to ask for a monitor that is like my TV?
 
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Is it safe to assume that text is easier to read on the Samsung than the BenQ? Usually the less coating = better text. And those Samsung pics of semiglossy are exactly what I picture semiglossy as being... pretty much the same as the coating on my televisions.

When a manufacturer states a contrast level, or a review site does, do they take into account the entire screen, or just a small part of it? Based on you saying the middle of the BenQ has high contrast, while the remainder of the screen doesn't, it sounds sort of like they just stuck a calibrator in the center, measured contrast there, yet overlooked the fact that the rest of the screen has a much lower contrast.

@crake8

I recall one person here having a problem with one of their PLS Eizos, but not sure if their warranty covered it or not. In general, Eizo is considered a very good company. They cater primarily to professionals, hence why some of their monitors are insanely priced... their 'low-end' starts at about $500-ish. Higher end goes up to around 36000, for their 4K pixel model. I think most of their monitors have a 3 year screen warranty, 5 year for electronics.
 
Namelessme said:
Is it safe to assume that text is easier to read on the Samsung than the BenQ? Usually the less coating = better text. And those Samsung pics of semiglossy are exactly what I picture semiglossy as being... pretty much the same as the coating on my televisions.

When a manufacturer states a contrast level, or a review site does, do they take into account the entire screen, or just a small part of it? Based on you saying the middle of the BenQ has high contrast, while the remainder of the screen doesn't, it sounds sort of like they just stuck a calibrator in the center, measured contrast there, yet overlooked the fact that the rest of the screen has a much lower contrast.
Click to expand...

About the same for text readability. I find the samsung easier on the eyes though.

And I wonder how they come up with contrast values as well. Either way, the S24A650SSK wins hands down over the GW2450HM
 
Memoryexpress for $248.61 (price beat)

return policy is within 7 days with nothing missing from the box.
 
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Bun - great pics. I'll try to do something similar with the 2750HM when the wife is up for it. However, it seems most have made their mind up. At 24", the 2450(HM) is horrible, so best to go with other options. At 27", many gamers here prefer 1440p to 1080p, so it's the Dell Ultrasharps, ACDs, and Catleaps of the world. However, I'm very happy with my 2750HM as it's exceeded my expectations. I'll try to give some photos when I can, but work is hectic.

Also, I was watching Captain America from my couch on the side, and I also want to know; why the hell can't a PC monitor be like my TV?
 
Crake8 said:
This shows $220. http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX37361

Different monitor or did it go down in price? Oh wait, I am in USA. I doubt they ship to US or it would be a lot either way.
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You're effin kidding me. When I ordered mine yesterday they didnt have the S listed only the SSK. The difference being SSK has the motion/light sensor. Frack!

EDIT: It's the same SKU too... I e-mailed them to see if they will offer a price protection sorta thing.
 
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@Bun-Bun
this Samsung most probably uses older A-MVA panel BenQ had in such monitors as EW24x0, VW2420H and BL2400PT. "Horrible" ghosting is kinda proof of that ;) Only thing slower on the hill is C-PVA :D

C-PVA/PLS have also nice semi-glossy coating but those A-MVA have it much more polished and it's easily the best coating in the world :cool:

@Crake8
LCD20WGX2 don't have features as:
- A-TW polarizer
- wide-gamut
- hardware calibration
- gamut emulation
So how can it be the best?

also why would anybody want 1080p monitor when there are 1200p ones? it doesn't make any sense :confused:
 
I just sent my U2412M back due to the monitor smelling like burnt plastic and also the No-Glare coating. So i bought the GW2450 to try it out.

So far i'm not impressed at all by this monitor. The monitor does seem to produce blacks pretty good. Have fiddled around with different color options for hours it seems now.

But it seems to lack very badly in the color reproduction area.

While playing D3 the colors are so washed out and i actually notice banding in Act 1 where there is a lot of fog.

I'm curious to how this monitor is a true 8bit panel when i see more banding on the GW2450 then i did on the U2412m.

Also the viewing angles are extremely horrible. 178/178 that benq advertises seems to be a joke.

The presets on the monitor are horrible. Monitor stand seems cheap flimsy.

Monitor will be going back to Benq as soon as i can find something different to try out.
 
I guess it's safe to say that the 24" BenQ is a dud. I'm not sure why entirely, as it is using a newer AMVA panel. Perhaps BenQ's electronics stinks, or they are using second tier quality panels... or the panel itself was designed to be cheaper, not necessarily better.

So what does that leave in the VA arena? The 27" BenQ... maybe. There is also that Phillips AMVA which seems difficult to actually purchase. And the Samsung 650s at 24" and 27". Am I missing any of them?

Anyone still make C-PVA monitors, besides maybe Eizo? Even if anyone does, are they worth it, due to ghosting? I didn't follow LCDs when VA was more popular, but is this a fair assessment of the VA timeline?

S-PVA (perhaps best for overall colors, decent blacks), C-PVA (better blacks, but perhaps a bit worse than S-PVA for colors, ghosting, etc ... made cheaper, not necessarily better), and A-MVA (older A-MVA < S-PVA, newer A-MVA = better blacks, jury still out on colors/ghosting/overall quality)? The back lights used may also play a part too, with LED resulting in less color coverage. But I am not aware of any current A-MVA using CCFL.
 
enorthey said:
I just sent my U2412M back due to the monitor smelling like burnt plastic and also the No-Glare coating. So i bought the GW2450 to try it out.

So far i'm not impressed at all by this monitor. The monitor does seem to produce blacks pretty good. Have fiddled around with different color options for hours it seems now.

But it seems to lack very badly in the color reproduction area.

While playing D3 the colors are so washed out and i actually notice banding in Act 1 where there is a lot of fog.

I'm curious to how this monitor is a true 8bit panel when i see more banding on the GW2450 then i did on the U2412m.

Also the viewing angles are extremely horrible. 178/178 that benq advertises seems to be a joke.

The presets on the monitor are horrible. Monitor stand seems cheap flimsy.

Monitor will be going back to Benq as soon as i can find something different to try out.
Click to expand...



I agree with all this. I really do not understand the viewing angles (thought VA was supposed to be good in this); it is really worse than average TN panels - at least the ones I recently viwed at a showroom (going completely to the side of one of them was like moving only 6 inches from center on the GW2450.
 
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Holy crap, that 650 looks amazing Bun-bun! but no overdrive scares me a little. I'm looking at my 27" Benq box and the part number appear almost identical to playwares apart from the last letter. Maybe I'll open this puppy up and compare with my TN panel. Also a little worried since there is a 15% restock on returns if it turns out to be a dud.
 
All C-PVA panels use light AG (f2380/f2380mx/ev2333/fs2331), which is lighter than the coating found on most TN's, but not the same or as light as semi-glossy coating.

A direct replacement for the NEC 20" would be one of the 27" glossy 1440p Korean displays found on ebay for 300$+

I wonder why BenQ changed the coating for the 24" since it was one of the things which made their last run of VA panels popular.
 
I hope the GW2750 is better or i don't have a choice and have to buy a TN Panel Monitor because an IPS is out of the question because of the IPS-Glow and aggressive AG-Coating, Dam way did i not buy a replacement CRT back in the good old days. :(
 
Outbreaker said:
I hope the GW2750 is better or i don't have a choice and have to buy a TN Panel Monitor because an IPS is out of the question because of the IPS-Glow and aggressive AG-Coating, Dam way did i not buy a replacement CRT back in the good old days. :(
Click to expand...

What do you not like about what I have shown of the S24A650?

twitch99 said:
Holy crap, that 650 looks amazing Bun-bun! but no overdrive scares me a little. I'm looking at my 27" Benq box and the part number appear almost identical to playwares apart from the last letter. Maybe I'll open this puppy up and compare with my TN panel. Also a little worried since there is a 15% restock on returns if it turns out to be a dud.
Click to expand...

It has overdrive, but it still isn't that great. Look back to my response pics. I took of both the GW2450HM and the S24A650S.

Ghosting is weird. In some ways the Samsung is nicer than the BenQ and others the BenQ is nicer. For example text doesn't dim on the Samsung like it does on the BenQ when moving.
 
Still can't convince the wife to do photos until Monday/Tuesday due to work schedules. However, I played Diablo 2 and switched between High/Premium and at no time did text blur when moving (I'm talking about text on the field of play that would actually move, and not UI text which is stationary). I can honestly say that my GW2750HM is not exhibiting any of the issues of the 24" model and seems to perform identically to the Prade.de reviewed unit.
 
well I am mostly happy with the Samsung. Maybe I will wait till the GW2750HM drops in price and try it in a few months.
 
Bun-Bun said:
well I am mostly happy with the Samsung. Maybe I will wait till the GW2750HM drops in price and try it in a few months.
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I'm somewhat curious on the Samsung. The S27A650D is the same price as my GW2750HM. The differences I'm seeing seem to be;

GW2750HM (pros)
-built-in speakers and DAC
-HDMI input
-better response
-better native contrast

S27A650D (pros)
-better build quality
-DisplayPort
-semi-gloss coat
-better stand (rotate + height)

For me, I think the BenQ is better. I've found no flaws, and while the light AG coating doesn't bother me (never has), I would have preferred the semi-gloss of my HDTV. But no defects, and after swapping out 4 monitors before it, I've found my stopping point. I couldn't be happier. As a side benefit, despite being limited to 2-channel 24-bit 48khz, the DAC is adequate for a basic desktop. I'm routing my audio through it from my GPU HDMI-out. I've removed any trace of Realtek drivers on my system and disabled via the bios. Slight reduction in system overhead :)
 
Medion said:
I'm somewhat curious on the Samsung. The S27A650D is the same price as my GW2750HM. The differences I'm seeing seem to be;

GW2750HM (pros)
-built-in speakers and DAC
-HDMI input
-better response
-better native contrast

S27A650D (pros)
-better build quality
-DisplayPort
-semi-gloss coat
-better stand (rotate + height)

For me, I think the BenQ is better. I've found no flaws, and while the light AG coating doesn't bother me (never has), I would have preferred the semi-gloss of my HDTV. But no defects, and after swapping out 4 monitors before it, I've found my stopping point. I couldn't be happier. As a side benefit, despite being limited to 2-channel 24-bit 48khz, the DAC is adequate for a basic desktop. I'm routing my audio through it from my GPU HDMI-out. I've removed any trace of Realtek drivers on my system and disabled via the bios. Slight reduction in system overhead :)
Click to expand...

You've convinced me to open mine up. Will post details tomorrow.
 
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