Its not monitor specific. Its a well known NVidia/HDMI problem.
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BenQ GW2x50(HM) thread.
- Thread starter Medion
- Start date
And they are retarded for doing this. It's the wrong way to address the problem. Let me explain what's really going on here.
There are two ranges of black levels typically used today. Full/Normal range is 0-255 (256 levels) whereas low/limited range is 16-235 (219 levels). Through DVI/VGA the PC has always been full range. However, many HDMI devices can only handle limited range. A few years ago, ATI/NV decided to make the assumption that ALL HDMI devices were limited, so they output this by default. Well, when PC monitors started to include HDMI (and more HDTV's giving the option for full range), AMD built a toggle into their drivers. NV still hasn't. They have a toggle, but it's only for video content while running full-range on a PC monitor. So, NV cards ONLY output limited range. There are a few things you can do to change this.
The proposed solution doesn't fix it. This basically has your GPU tell the monitor, "hey, I can only output limited range," so the monitor locks itself to a matching limited range. You're getting 219 levels here, so it won't look as good as when hooked up via VGA/DVI.
If you remain hooked up via HDMI, your GPU is sending a limited range signal that is capable of being full range, but your monitor doesn't know so it stays at full range, giving a washed out look. You can simply change the monitor to limited range (the BenQ has a setting for this) and it will fix itself for 219 levels. However, you're still limited range, and it won't look as good as VGA/DVI.
Lastly, you can do an INI edit to your NV drivers during install. This edit forces the driver to ALWAYS output full range over HDMI. This fixes the issue but will cause problems if you hook up to a limited-range display.
I've reported this issue numerous times to NV and they don't care. I'm sick of editing my drivers to make them work properly. If this issue isn't fixed by my next upgrade cycle, I'm going AMD. It is an NV problem.
livefastdieyoung
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2012
- Messages
- 307
Beautiful! And thank you for that, sorry for missing the first post.
No, because any HDMI-based device will tupically use YCbCr instead of RGB, which tells the monitor right off the bat, "Hey, I'm using limited range." Some monitors will still give you a choice of full/limited, so you'll want to tell it to use limited to prevent washing out.
The PS3 and Xbox 360 also support using full range. You'll want to ensure that you have this setting on the console matched to the HDTV's setting as well. Here's the combinations and results.
Console + HTDV = Result
1. Limited/low + limited/low = just right but 16-235
2. limited/low + full/normal = washed out image
3. full/normal + limited/low = crushed blacks, darkened image
4. full/normal + full/normal = just right 0-255
Basically, if you're using HDMI and/or YCbCr, you want to check to see if your display supports full/normal range black levels. This will usually be listed as "black level" or "HDMI black level" in the options/menu if your display device. All PC monitors support full/normal range, but many cheaper HDTV's don't support it. If the device supports it, you want to make sure that the display is matched to the input as I described above. If your display doesn't support it, then you want to ensure that your input is using limited/low range to prevent having crushed blacks.
Is there much differnce in practice between 16-235 and 0-255 when properly setup? - can u see much of a difference? I was going to get DVD player rather than use the PC dvd device. Not sure now if it such a good idea. I dont really want to turn my monitor into an IPS like contrast limited device lol
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For a DVD player, it doesn't matter. DVD/Blu-Ray content ONLY uses 16-235. Console games are made for 16-235. It's really just PC content that uses RGB 0-255 content. When you properly setup up 0-255 on both ends, it properly maps 16-235 content so it looks the same as it would on a 16-235 source.
Mr.Moustache
n00b
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2012
- Messages
- 7
Hi, I need a new monitor and I was thinking of getting the GW2450HM or the IPS235V-BN.
Would you recommend the GW2450HM over the IPS235V-BN? (Essentially for rts games and movies).
Would you recommend the GW2450HM over the IPS235V-BN? (Essentially for rts games and movies).
They use completely different types of panel and therefore characters. I have the GW2450HM and use it as my TV thru Windows 7 media center and digital TV tuner card- very good blacks and contrast, probably better than the LG IPS235V. As I said a few pages ago I am irritated by shadows that are grey rather than black, especially in the dark I couldnt be happier. The type of panel that the GW2450HM uses I think is mainly used in TVs and displays meant for that type of thing. You may have to make colour adjustments as certainly the early ones had a green bias. The GW2450HM doesnt have such a wide viewing angle as the LG I think and some people have found unacceptable changes to the picture quality at wide viewing angles - I think the LG would probably be less of an issue here due to its panel type. I dont play games so cant comment on the GW2450HM for fast game playing. Certainly ok for fast motion on TV. The GW2450HM and GW2750HM have attracted a lot of criticism here if u bother to read the monumental conversation.
If you are in the US then probably steer clear of anything Benq as it seems Benq USA is very poor for handling RMA's.
Some one else here will have to share their actual experience of the IPS235V-BN.
Best go see them if you can & google see what other people have said. eg a quick look -
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/64573-29-ips235v-good-games
You should also look at the warranties - LGA 3 years onsite? Benq ..........2 years maybe/maybe not u have to pay to send it back?
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Wouldn't connecting it to a DisplayPort with a DisplayPort to HDMI adapter fix that problem as well? Or would that cause other trouble?
seems like TFTcentral went back and changed their mind about doing this -their latest revision is to use the registry tweak tool as far as I can see
GW2460HM and GW2260HM on the move.
Guess Benq/AUO decided to make a quick adjustment. Only difference I could tell, from quick look at the specs, was the expected lower power-usage probably by reducing the LED strips. Slightly different foot although bezel looks the same. They did some firmware coding also and included a 'Reading Mode' and 'Eco Mode'. That reading mode is a small indication that they might have done something about PWM dimming tech. We'll see.
Looks to be a GW2760HM also but not on Benq's homepage. No 120hz, VAs though.
Edit:
I was in the wrong about the bezel. Its new. Its more slim according to the article below. Article also states that the AG is reduced.
http://pcmonitors.info/benq/benq-gw60-series-including-gw2460hm-and-gw2760hm
Guess Benq/AUO decided to make a quick adjustment. Only difference I could tell, from quick look at the specs, was the expected lower power-usage probably by reducing the LED strips. Slightly different foot although bezel looks the same. They did some firmware coding also and included a 'Reading Mode' and 'Eco Mode'. That reading mode is a small indication that they might have done something about PWM dimming tech. We'll see.
Looks to be a GW2760HM also but not on Benq's homepage. No 120hz, VAs though.
Edit:
I was in the wrong about the bezel. Its new. Its more slim according to the article below. Article also states that the AG is reduced.
http://pcmonitors.info/benq/benq-gw60-series-including-gw2460hm-and-gw2760hm
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After prolonged use I have noticed a possible issue with my GW2450. Mine is the same firmware that TFTCentral tested. I use mine soley as a TV. On certain motions where eg a reddish/brown eg skin toned object ( eg a face or arm ) moves against a dark adjacent area or background I can see a reddish shadow left behind on edges. On faces the whole face goes redder. It is a motion issue as if I pause the effect not there. I can see the same effect If i pan a suitable static picture side to side etc. It only seems to affect pictures with red/brown content. I havent decided yet whether to do a RMA to my seller. Maybe a firmware update would solve the problem. Hope its not an ageing issue.
here is an example http://derp.co.uk/9342c
changing the overdrive doesnt affect it
here is an example http://derp.co.uk/9342c
changing the overdrive doesnt affect it
All the reviews in the world amount to nothing when you have the screen in front of you, like I did. I used the prad.de ghosting test, which uses a red block on a grey background.
It does this deliberately because this kind of transition isn't helped all that much be overdrive. And believe me, AMVA vs IPS ghosting is a very one-sided competition. The IPS wins every time.
Or don't believe me, take your pickI had one of these Benq screens and I'm just telling you what my eyes saw.
I'm not actually saying that the ghosting on AMVA makes it a bad panel. I had fun playing Portal 2, although that's not a twitch based FPS by any means. What I am saying is that AMVA is not close to IPS for ghosting.
I 100% agree with you: even my 7y old Apple 30"IPS has less ghost on the prad.de test.
But the Benq has much better pixperan results, i have taken photos of both monitors and i believe in TFTcentral and prad when they say that the AMVA M240HW02 V6 panel has excellent response time and less ghost than previous VA panels.
as you said, moving a red block over a grey background is not helped by overdrive, so how can this test have more significance on the final grade of the technology if it does not reflect real life usage scenarios?
Pixperan has a compreensive serie of tests, and the Benq has better results than the Apple on these tests. The one ghosting test that the AMVA panel fails is this one .
I used to be an IPS fan, but no longer. AU optronics has worked hard to produce a cheap monitor with great contrast and colors, decent input lag and average response time. No, it is not perfect, but for the price asked we will have a hard time finding suitable alternatives.
And what is wrong with some guys? blaming the company over backlight bleeding?!
BLB happens when the panel bends. it can happen during packing, transporting, heat variations. There is simply no way an LCD factory can assure that the monitor will nor suffer from BLB. And most if not all BLBs can be solved by refitting the panel on the monitor casing. Some people dismount their monitors for this. i try to stretch the panel and see what works.
As screen sizes increase so increases the BLB. There is virtually no 27"+ monitor without some degree of BLB.
BLB is not like stuck pixels, that i tend to blame on QC.
A panel can leave quality control without significant BLB and during packing and transport bend enough to acquire severe BLB. even a NEC ou an Apple!
Just a quick question to the owners of this monitors (24 or 27in), can it take custom timings at 1080p 72-75 hz? I've looked everywhere but can't find info about it and this might be a little bonus that finally makes me buy one. Also does the higher refresh rate give you less ghosting??? thanks in advance.
BenQ announced a new model, the VW2430H. The rumor says, it`s also using the M240HW02 V6 panel like the GW2450HM. In addition to the specifications of the GW2450HM it offers a DVI port and the so called Senseye-M-Book-Modes. I think I will give it a try.
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Hi guys.
Thought I'd share my experience of the GW2750 - which I've owned for one day : buy two and send the poorer performing one back .
But seriously, I bought two of them to replace my 22" Asus dual display setup, primarily because my eyesight isn't what it was and the 1080 v res is ideal.
First impressions. Wow! Grabbed a copy of Avatar and watched it full screen. Incredible (in comparison to the Asus) colours, excellent contrast and black levels. Really a joy to behold.
But. Today I once again became a grown up and in the light of day on the monitor on which I viewed the video, I evidenced the green lurgy. Yup, a horrible zombie tinge. I hadn't noticed it the night before because I was simply wowed and I like Jack Daniel's. Consequently I have spent most of the day seeking a solution, mostly achieved through reading every page of this thread.
Now, I'm not a monitor or colour calibration specialist but I need to achieve as good a 'true' colour match as possible because my profession requires a good eye for colour both on and off screen. So... the green had to go. I tried fiddling with the monitor control panel and setting RGB, dropping the green and blue values but the green simply wouldn't go. I came closer to a resolution when I adjusted their respective brightness and gamma levels from the nVidia control panel but as darkness fell and I re-entered my office, it was still clearly evident.
It was only once I'd downloaded the interactive monitor tweaker SoftMCCS and adjusted the green black level that I hit the jackpot. As I say, because I'm not a specialist, it was a hit and miss affair guided almost entirely by the ensemble of knowledge on this forum - and for that I thank all contributing members.
Now, back to my tongue-in-cheek Tip of the Day and its relevance. The other identical monitor out-of-the-box required only reducing the Arctic blizzard whiteness by 50% and offered beautiful and, to my eyes, accurate colour resolution.
The moral: the Benq GW2750HM seems to be something of a lottery when it comes to QC, but it can be set up to offer (in my view) great colour fidelity. You just have to know how.
As to the afterburner firmware failure, I can't comment but I shall report back here in a few weeks to update this post once both monitors have bedded in.
Once again, thank you all for your help. I now have two excellent colour matched displays.
Thought I'd share my experience of the GW2750 - which I've owned for one day
: buy two and send the poorer performing one back .But seriously, I bought two of them to replace my 22" Asus dual display setup, primarily because my eyesight isn't what it was and the 1080 v res is ideal.
First impressions. Wow! Grabbed a copy of Avatar and watched it full screen. Incredible (in comparison to the Asus) colours, excellent contrast and black levels. Really a joy to behold.
But. Today I once again became a grown up and in the light of day on the monitor on which I viewed the video, I evidenced the green lurgy. Yup, a horrible zombie tinge. I hadn't noticed it the night before because I was simply wowed and I like Jack Daniel's
. Consequently I have spent most of the day seeking a solution, mostly achieved through reading every page of this thread.Now, I'm not a monitor or colour calibration specialist but I need to achieve as good a 'true' colour match as possible because my profession requires a good eye for colour both on and off screen. So... the green had to go. I tried fiddling with the monitor control panel and setting RGB, dropping the green and blue values but the green simply wouldn't go. I came closer to a resolution when I adjusted their respective brightness and gamma levels from the nVidia control panel but as darkness fell and I re-entered my office, it was still clearly evident.
It was only once I'd downloaded the interactive monitor tweaker SoftMCCS and adjusted the green black level that I hit the jackpot. As I say, because I'm not a specialist, it was a hit and miss affair guided almost entirely by the ensemble of knowledge on this forum - and for that I thank all contributing members.
Now, back to my tongue-in-cheek Tip of the Day and its relevance. The other identical monitor out-of-the-box required only reducing the Arctic blizzard whiteness by 50% and offered beautiful and, to my eyes, accurate colour resolution.
The moral: the Benq GW2750HM seems to be something of a lottery when it comes to QC, but it can be set up to offer (in my view) great colour fidelity. You just have to know how.
As to the afterburner firmware failure, I can't comment but I shall report back here in a few weeks to update this post once both monitors have bedded in.
Once again, thank you all for your help. I now have two excellent colour matched displays.
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Hi guys.
Thought I'd share my experience of the GW2750 - which I've owned for one day
But seriously, I bought two of them to replace my 22" Asus dual display setup, primarily because my eyesight isn't what it was and the 1080 v res is ideal.
First impressions. Wow! Grabbed a copy of Avatar and watched it full screen. Incredible (in comparison to the Asus) colours, excellent contrast and black levels. Really a joy to behold.
But. Today I once again became a grown up and in the light of day on the monitor on which I viewed the video, I evidenced the green lurgy. Yup, a horrible zombie tinge. I hadn't noticed it the night before because I was simply wowed and I like Jack Daniel's
Now, I'm not a monitor or colour calibration specialist but I need to achieve as good a 'true' colour match as possible because my profession requires a good eye for colour both on and off screen. So... the green had to go. I tried fiddling with the monitor control panel and setting RGB, dropping the green and blue values but the green simply wouldn't go. I came closer to a resolution when I adjusted their respective brightness and gamma levels from the nVidia control panel but as darkness fell and I re-entered my office, it was still clearly evident.
It was only once I'd downloaded the interactive monitor tweaker SoftMCCS and adjusted the green black level that I hit the jackpot. As I say, because I'm not a specialist, it was a hit and miss affair guided almost entirely by the ensemble of knowledge on this forum - and for that I thank all contributing members.
Now, back to my tongue-in-cheek Tip of the Day and its relevance. The other identical monitor out-of-the-box required only reducing the Arctic blizzard whiteness by 50% and offered beautiful and, to my eyes, accurate colour resolution.
The moral: the Benq GW2750HM seems to be something of a lottery when it comes to QC, but it can be set up to offer (in my view) great colour fidelity. You just have to know how.
As to the afterburner firmware failure, I can't comment but I shall report back here in a few weeks to update this post once both monitors have bedded in.
Once again, thank you all for your help. I now have two excellent colour matched displays.
How do you find the black levels and backlight?
Hello all i am a long time reader first time poster, i have joined up specially for GW2450HM queries. I right now have a U2412M its great for the most part but the IPS glow is too much for dark movies watched at an angle greater than 10 but less than 30.
Second problem is that without native HDMI some products due not work with the DVI to HDMI converter.
Third problem is the ghosting which i get without OD enabled but with OD enabled this goes away but i sometimes notice overshoot "Is there a mid OD setting for this"
-------------------
Now on to the GW2450HM i heard some great things over at MLG about it. I am about convinced that it would be a great replacement for my U2412M. I know the angles are not that good but i generally don't go beyond a 10 degree angle.
It has a very positive review over at tftcentral and i am totally sold. What do you people say about this monitor is it good or bad experience matters a lot in this space.
Second problem is that without native HDMI some products due not work with the DVI to HDMI converter.
Third problem is the ghosting which i get without OD enabled but with OD enabled this goes away but i sometimes notice overshoot "Is there a mid OD setting for this"
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Now on to the GW2450HM i heard some great things over at MLG about it. I am about convinced that it would be a great replacement for my U2412M. I know the angles are not that good but i generally don't go beyond a 10 degree angle.
It has a very positive review over at tftcentral and i am totally sold. What do you people say about this monitor is it good or bad experience matters a lot in this space.
PWM Flicker
Even my Dell has that problem below 50%.how much does it work out for the GW2450HM??
Well I sent my GW2450HM back under warranty after 3 months. I use mine soley for Media Center tv/dvd viewing and had come aware that under certain circumstances eg moving face against dark background I would see a bright red motion blur unrelated to the source. Other wise has been fine. WIll report back what happens.
Any one buying this should look back at my #535 to see if they too have the strange red motion issue.
As for BatJoe. Regarding dark scenes - One thing I notice against my old TVs is that the contrast in the dark scenes is much higher -rather than a grey lifeless irritating image you get some thing that is almost convincing. There is some light show thru in a dark room but I doubt you would get a complete darkness in RL unless in a complete dark room?
I dont notice any PWM Flicker on my 24". I use the monitor at about 25-30
Any one buying this should look back at my #535 to see if they too have the strange red motion issue.
As for BatJoe. Regarding dark scenes - One thing I notice against my old TVs is that the contrast in the dark scenes is much higher -rather than a grey lifeless irritating image you get some thing that is almost convincing. There is some light show thru in a dark room but I doubt you would get a complete darkness in RL unless in a complete dark room?
I dont notice any PWM Flicker on my 24". I use the monitor at about 25-30
Returning a monitor because of an obvious color/ama calibration issue. NIIICEEEEE
Not quite sure what you mean by that? It wasnt obvious at all & I m not sure if it was there at the start. Watching TV/DVD isnt a microscopic acvtivity & the "defect" required special circumstances for it to be obvious. Mostly it was a slight red outlining easy to miss. It wasnt a calibration issue on my part - No amount of calibration removed it unless you mean turn down all the red.
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1297345519
The response time on BL2400PT is not very fast even though the monitor has a Overdrive system called AMA. I saw visible trailing in fast paced games and I dont think the most discerning gamers will be satisfied by its performance.
Before calibration I also noticed green overdrive trailing. Overdrive trailing is the kind of trailing where you see a halo-like effect around moving objects for example a football player moving. After calibration I managed to reduce the overdrive trailing to lower level by changing the RGB settings (the color settings can change the over shoot looks caused by overdrive systems).
You can also deactivate the AMA system to reduce overdrive trailing but then you will experience a higher level of traditional trailing (blurring on motion).
The BL2400PT uses the same panel as the GW2450. You were likely having a RED overdrive trailing, solved by lowering the AMA setting and adjusting color in order to have a black overdrivetrailing as intended.
well turning off the overdrive had no effect. I tried that dont you think. So it isnt overdrive trailing in my case. The only way I could get rid of the red artifact was to remove all red. So Unless there is overdrive when the setting is off then thats not the problem. Any way you could only see the effect when eg a face against a dark background eg dark hair. And it was at the edge between the light and dark. Also in some cases it wasnt a halo effect - the whole face might become a noticeable unnaturable red. The review where your quote came from said that the monitor would be ok for video viewing - not true in my case, thats how I became aware of it! Anyway will be interesting to see what BenQ say. None of my cheap Tn, or IPS monitors show this defect.
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Unless you think the BL2400PT has updated panel its not really the same as GW2450HM. Not after looking at the Prad review anyway. Much slower response time and better in other areas. Its probably the same panel as the Samsung discussed previously in this thread.
Noticed a GW2750HE popping up in stores. Only differences I could see where power consumption and brightness thats down to 28W and 250 cdm2. So thats good news for light-sensitive people like me. I guess they simply switched panel in the old case. Its probably the panel version that will go into the GW2760HM. Any new PCB design (with the miniscule chance of PWM-freedom) will probably only be seen in the newer 60-models, though.
Theory on the 120Hz VA panels: AUO has probably been trying to produce them in quantity and not achieving numbers and dumping the 'failures' as 60hz panels in these Benq models instead. Looks like these newer revision panels are more tailored for 60hz and we might see less QC lottery problems and more goodness.
Noticed a GW2750HE popping up in stores. Only differences I could see where power consumption and brightness thats down to 28W and 250 cdm2. So thats good news for light-sensitive people like me. I guess they simply switched panel in the old case. Its probably the panel version that will go into the GW2760HM. Any new PCB design (with the miniscule chance of PWM-freedom) will probably only be seen in the newer 60-models, though.
Theory on the 120Hz VA panels: AUO has probably been trying to produce them in quantity and not achieving numbers and dumping the 'failures' as 60hz panels in these Benq models instead. Looks like these newer revision panels are more tailored for 60hz and we might see less QC lottery problems and more goodness.
I dont think, i know for a fact since i recently purchase one to my wife
The M240HW02 V6 is the same panel of the GW2450. This firmware version gives the BL2400PT the same "premium AMA" that makes the GW2450 so good on reviews.
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Nifty. It has a good stand and decently priced too. When looking around I saw there is a BL2410PT coming out now also.
I'm in the market for a new monitor. I currently own an Acer P244W, running off onboard graphics on an Asrock H77M-ITX mobo. Problem is only the VGA connection of the monitor now works, and I don't have an OSD. And it takes a good 10-15 seconds to show anything when powering up. I've narrowed my choices down to the GW2750HM or Dell U2412M. Monitor would be used for web browsing, e-mail, Office docs, movies, casual photo editing. Can anyone make any recommendations for one over the other? Or am I better off waiting until one of the newer models come out?
I don't think my mobo supports resolutions higher than 1920x1080 though. I'd have to buy a separate vid card as well.
Just wondering how this would compare to the Benq? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-_-20-_-N82E16824009424-_-na&nm_mc=BlkFri2012
There are no reviews for that one, yet...The last 27" VA panel Acer released was really good, but was only available in Europe
http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2011/test-acer-b273hloymidh.html
The B27 sold for around 350 euros/450$, the G276HL is much cheaper, so I don't think it will be any better than the BenQ GW27 or Phillips which are proven options
I would get the below Phillips which supports 75hz
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1724958
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