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The open area with this hole pattern is about 40%. Same as the M1, and Lian Li more generally, uses.
Apart from the coolers compatible with the M1, there are a few shorter tower coolers right around the 145mm height limit that use 120mm fans:
In principle the flexible mounting system could support an ATX PSU with an additional bracket. It would come with trade offs, though: mounted at the top, in addition to taking up 4 (of 8) expansion slots, it would limit the case to microATX motherboards only. Alternatively, mounted at the front, it would take up at least one of the front fan locations, depending on the length of the PSU. This pic shows a 160mm long PSU almost fitting with a single 120 rad just above it at the front:
Unfortunately there's really no place for an ODD anywhere in this case. At best, installed at the rear like you describe, it would block the top rearmost fan/PSU mounting location.
TBD, but a 3.5" drive cage could be designed to be attached to the top and front rails just like the PSU.
A couple of size comparison mockups:
These side by side comparison sold it for me.A couple of size comparison mockups:
Five months? Not too likely. Lead time on certain parts (e.g., front I/O cables) can be two months or more alone.
I can try it, but for strength and EMI reasons it's not the best idea.
How can resist?Necere Here are my myriad of thoughts for your consideration. I don't expect you to read/address all of it, but I just had to organize it into one giant post.
The M-style definitely looks like the favorite, and the one I'll be proceeding with at this point.
Well, much of the spatial efficiency comes from being able to utilize the space next to the last two or three slots on the motherboard, right? So by flipping the board and keeping the rad support at the top, we can no longer take advantage of that. Right now there's about a fan-thickness of clearance above the motherboard, so effectively whatever rad thickness you would want to support is about how much taller the case would need to be (plus a few mm for clearance). So, say a minimum of about 35mm taller, or 385mm from the current 350mm.
The one thing that makes me hesitant is communicating to people the trade offs that entails. I just know people will see ATX PSU support listed and go ahead and just use one in their build, not realizing that it's more than likely going to cause them problems.
At the moment about 295mm.
Sorry, I neglected to post this here, but it should answer most of these questions for you:
How can resist?
I've also got a thread on SFFN, and I've already addressed some of your questions over there. Nevertheless:
The M-style definitely looks like the favorite, and the one I'll be proceeding with at this point.
Regarding I/O placement, this was my response on SFFN:
"I/O placement is a bit tricky with this, because I know some people don't like upward facing ports. OTOH, I/O at the bottom like the M1 are borderline unusable if the case is on the floor. Forward facing I/O at the top is a possibility, and would probably offend the fewest number of people, but IMO the aesthetics of that aren't great."
Well, much of the spatial efficiency comes from being able to utilize the space next to the last two or three slots on the motherboard, right? So by flipping the board and keeping the rad support at the top, we can no longer take advantage of that. Right now there's about a fan-thickness of clearance above the motherboard, so effectively whatever rad thickness you would want to support is about how much taller the case would need to be (plus a few mm for clearance). So, say a minimum of about 35mm taller, or 385mm from the current 350mm.
The one thing that makes me hesitant is communicating to people the trade offs that entails. I just know people will see ATX PSU support listed and go ahead and just use one in their build, not realizing that it's more than likely going to cause them problems.
At the moment about 295mm.
Sorry, I neglected to post this here, but it should answer most of these questions for you:
In addition to being able to mount the PSU anywhere on the front or top, the plan is to be able to swap out the 92mm fan mount for a bracket that allows for SFX mounting at the rear, over the motherboard. I don't see mounting the PSU to the rad as being that viable (or easy to do).
Something like that, yeah. It's around 70mm currently between the CPU IHS and PSU, which should be enough.
Weird, I copied the URL right from the M1 thread where it was linked... I guess [H] has a script that does the embed on paste.
Thanks
One thing I suppose I should mention is it would need to be ~45mm taller for the PSU to be installed at the top in a flipped orientation. Though I suppose it could be installed at the bottom adjacent to the PCIe slots, as well, since the PSU doesn't need airflow clearance on both sides the way a radiator does.
My desire to avoid those kinds of tradeoffs partly comes from my experience with the M1. It's not even that many people have had a problem with it, so much, but moreso that I get tired of explaining it whenever someone asks for build advice
Here's yet another option:
Currently about 70mm. Can't imagine why anyone would ever do that, though.What is the maximum CPU cooler clearance if you put the PSU over the board, for the one guy who will use an air cooler in that config?
Yes.
They'd need to be molded plastic, which isn't super cheap to get tooled. OTOH, they're relatively small, and as feet precision/finish aren't critical, so it might not be too bad.
Hmm... What if both are already occupied with radiators?
Ah, here you are, old codger...
My desire to avoid those kinds of tradeoffs partly comes from my experience with the M1. It's not even that many people have had a problem with it, so much, but moreso that I get tired of explaining it whenever someone asks for build advice
Also it'd be nice to actually be able to get the case listed on PCPartPicker. They won't add the M1 precisely because of how many conditional parts restrictions there are - it doesn't work with their compatibility engine. They don't list water cooling parts at all, so I figure if the conditionality is limited to those, it should be okay.
Maybe we could offer an ATX bracket separately. That way we could say the case doesn't support ATX PSUs by default, but if people REALLY want it, they have still the option.Could you just kindly direct them to the website? It seems to me all you need is a really well-designed guide where it's all explained, maybe even an interactive graphic, like Sentry has. I realize that's not free and not easy to do, but it would solve your problem. You can have the manual there too, and just include a small piece of paper in the M1 packaging that directs people there. I think we've had a similar exchange before -- you make valid points, but I just don't think it's justified to limit functionality so the case will be easier to understand/list on PCPartsPicker. Excluding ATX will limit your audience -- this is an ATX case after all, and ATX PSU is actually a very good option for (semi) air-cooled builds so it just makes no sense to me, being honest. If the M1 didn't support ATX or 3.5" drives a good number of builds wouldn't exist. You may have gained some exposure if it'd been listed on PCPartsPicker, but you would have lost some customers and some praise from reviewers. Also, people like to have options, even if they never avail of them. Just knowing that you COULD install something makes you like the product more. So... not sure how it all adds up. I've said way too much on this.
There are a few problems with mounting the PSU directly to the front rad:
The holes on the bracket would need to be offset. And actually, the existing holes wouldn't work with a front 280 anyway, because they're spaced for 120mm fan mounts. The bracket needs to be a little longer/wider to accommodate 140mm fan holes.
Hey, I'm glad someone is. They're good questions though, and you bring up points I probably wouldn't have thought of. So I definitely appreciate the interest.
New 24L ATX concept
#1, rounded style
#2, M-style
I'd like to hear which design direction people prefer, as well as any other feedback or thoughts people might have.
At least one Type C is likely. Two would be more forward-looking, considering there aren't any(?) motherboards with more than a single internal header for front Type C.What are the chances of doing 2x USB-A and 2x USB-C on the top? Couldn't buy this without USB-C
wahaha360 is an Apple Product Owner so he prefers round corners when he can get them
Also he has an irrational need for front/back asymmetry, which #1 (rounded) has and #2 (M-style) doesn't.
Yes, but it doesn't really matter because the gap between the front panel and the fans is so small.
Nothing's close to final at this point, but the idea right now is for the front panel to have the same grommeted sliding studs as the side panels use, but on the sides of the front panel such that you're able to pull the panel away from the front. Take a look at the image above and note the keyhole slots open to the front. That should give you the idea.
The top isn't necessarily exhaust only - particularly with a PSU mounted at the top drawing in air. So yeah, the plan is for a top filter in addition to the front.
