Before asking NCASE about Micro-ATX...

[Deleted member 222586]

Well, that's pretty decent load temps. My 3.5" and ssd mounted in the same position is roughly at 50c in desktop and 60c under gaming.

Really? What is your system setup? What kind of drive is that? Intake fans? 50ºC at desktop means something is wrong. And 60ºC is on the danger-zone for the drives. I would rethink your layout if you want your drive to have a long life. Studies show that up to 50ºC the drives are more or less safe, but north of that the failure rates increase dramatically.

 

[knupauger]

I'm still not sure what to think about the front panel design. I like the M1 element in the front, but all in all it something feels wrong about it. The side fronts in the front panel should probably go all the way up to the top so that it doesn feel that much as if two different designs stacked on top of each other.

And I can't get warm with the top panel vents. On the much larger mATX footprint it doesn't look very appealing to me. However, there is your 'LRPC' project and I really like the what you did with the top panel there; the ribs with vents between them and the sidepanels that bend around the top and enclose the top panel vents. I reallly, really like that design and I'm wondering if you could do the same with your mATX-design and probably with a future version of the M1 as well. That could probably help to make the ODD slot feel less misplaced in that design.

 

[primordialpouch]

Hi Necere,

Really liking where this is going, similar to the outcome of Cerberus (I'd get both if this project ever comes to fruition).

Just had a few comments questions:
The newer design has definitely grown on me.

1) Is there the possibility of increasing the height a little to allow for top mounted 120 or 140mm exhaust, or functionally speaking would it not affect the temperatures to have them or not have them?

2) Is it possible instead of having the window raised from the bottom to do it similar to what Phanteks has done with the Evolv mATX where the left portion of the panel is windowed while the right is either vented or solid? I feel like this would allow us to exhibit our PSUs in addition to parts of the GPU while allowing those of us without custom short cables for ATX PSUs to shove our cable clutter near the 3.5"HDDs without having to see it through the window. If exhibition of PSUs really isn't that important then the current window variation I think is fine.

3) Do you have any idea yet what the height clearance is going to be for this case for GPUs? Sadly I am refraining from purchasing an M1 because my Strix is too high (wide if sticking onto a mobo that is mounted vertically)

Thanks!

 

[Pat-Roner]

Really? What is your system setup? What kind of drive is that? Intake fans? 50ºC at desktop means something is wrong. And 60ºC is on the danger-zone for the drives. I would rethink your layout if you want your drive to have a long life. Studies show that up to 50ºC the drives are more or less safe, but north of that the failure rates increase dramatically.

Yes. I'm one casefan short atm. (Waiting for it to arrive).

I'm not that bothered just now since I'll get custom made cables and another casefan. Theres nothing of importance on the disk, so if it fails it fails and I'll get a replacement. The disks are rated for up to 60c and theres room for a bit more.

 

[alex_di]

Have you guys seen this case before?

It's called the Naratech I-1AL. I found it while looking for the Jonsbo U3 on EBay, one of the few alternative mATX cases that doesn't fall into the 'large black rectangle' aesthetic. Seems nice, though too expensive for an impulse buy. Any thoughts on the layout?

 

[Nemesis429]

Just to be clear, we're talking about two completely different designs here. Some of your comments lead me to believe you may be confusing them.

First, the latest mATX concept:

Would love to see this case be made. preferably sandblasted and not brushed aluminium also.

 

[Necere]

I'm still not sure what to think about the front panel design. I like the M1 element in the front, but all in all it something feels wrong about it. The side fronts in the front panel should probably go all the way up to the top so that it doesn feel that much as if two different designs stacked on top of each other.

I wasn't seeing it that way, but I understand how if you do see it as two things stacked, it doesn't look good. It's interesting how our preconceptions can color our opinions so radically.

And I can't get warm with the top panel vents. On the much larger mATX footprint it doesn't look very appealing to me. However, there is your 'LRPC' project and I really like the what you did with the top panel there; the ribs with vents between them and the sidepanels that bend around the top and enclose the top panel vents. I reallly, really like that design and I'm wondering if you could do the same with your mATX-design and probably with a future version of the M1 as well. That could probably help to make the ODD slot feel less misplaced in that design.

Funny, I actually don't like those vents that much. I think it makes less sense to do on a larger case, since the vents end up being pretty long.

1) Is there the possibility of increasing the height a little to allow for top mounted 120 or 140mm exhaust, or functionally speaking would it not affect the temperatures to have them or not have them?

Well, that design is already a little bit tall at 380mm, and some people have expressed a preference for a solid top panel (which I tend to favor as well). Is it potentially better for thermals? To some extent, though the rear fan does most of the heavy lifting, catching most of both the GPU and CPU exhaust. A top fan is kind of too far removed from the GPU(s) to have any great effect.

2) Is it possible instead of having the window raised from the bottom to do it similar to what Phanteks has done with the Evolv mATX where the left portion of the panel is windowed while the right is either vented or solid? I feel like this would allow us to exhibit our PSUs in addition to parts of the GPU while allowing those of us without custom short cables for ATX PSUs to shove our cable clutter near the 3.5"HDDs without having to see it through the window. If exhibition of PSUs really isn't that important then the current window variation I think is fine.

Sure, it's possible.

3) Do you have any idea yet what the height clearance is going to be for this case for GPUs? Sadly I am refraining from purchasing an M1 because my Strix is too high (wide if sticking onto a mobo that is mounted vertically)

That concept is full-width, which means 120mm rear fan, ~160mm CPU cooler, and 160mm+ tall GPUs.

Have you guys seen this case before?

It's called the Naratech I-1AL. I found it while looking for the Jonsbo U3 on EBay, one of the few alternative mATX cases that doesn't fall into the 'large black rectangle' aesthetic. Seems nice, though too expensive for an impulse buy. Any thoughts on the layout?

I've seen it, yeah. It's a foreshortened, mostly standard layout that's pretty compact (22.7L), but the airflow looks poor, and build options seem quite limited.

 

[knupauger]

Funny, I actually don't like those vents that much. I think it makes less sense to do on a larger case, since the vents end up being pretty long.

What I like most about that design is that the sidepanels bend around the top, resulting in smooth corner. Maybe you could somehow add that to your designs (with larger form-factors you will probably go the other way around and make top panel bend around the sides). And I like the vents because they look 'utilitarian' and are not the same perforated aluminium design again. Maybe interrupt the vents if they become too long in larger form-factors.

 

[pwrusr]

Have you guys seen this case before?

It's called the Naratech I-1AL. I found it while looking for the Jonsbo U3 on EBay, one of the few alternative mATX cases that doesn't fall into the 'large black rectangle' aesthetic. Seems nice, though too expensive for an impulse buy. Any thoughts on the layout?

Did you see the "fan holes" in the back?? it looks VERY restrictive. Not to mention the tiny size of the fan options in the back (2x80mm). Fine for a everyday PC that you'd build for your mom or something, but load it up with a big bad graphics card and things will get very toasty. Though I guess you *could* do a 2x80mm rad in the back. but the fans needed to push serious air through that rad would likely be pretty loud.

 

[Necere]

What I like most about that design is that the sidepanels bend around the top, resulting in smooth corner. Maybe you could somehow add that to your designs (with larger form-factors you will probably go the other way around and make top panel bend around the sides).

Sure, and I've done concepts like that. This concept, for example, which I haven't shown before:



Note that the front edges, like on the LRPC, are sharp, and that's because you can't really transition cleanly between bent sheet metal edges that are 90 degrees from eachother. On the M1 for example, the top edges can't be bent because there's no (clean) way to carry the bend all the way around the front, but the angled front wouldn't be possible if the top edges were bent instead. So it really depends on what you want to do with the design.

Did you see the "fan holes" in the back?? it looks VERY restrictive. Not to mention the tiny size of the fan options in the back (2x80mm). Fine for a everyday PC that you'd build for your mom or something, but load it up with a big bad graphics card and things will get very toasty. Though I guess you *could* do a 2x80mm rad in the back. but the fans needed to push serious air through that rad would likely be pretty loud.

A 2x80mm rad probably wouldn't fit in that case, actually. Those rads are around 205mm, so 45mm more than the two fans. I don't think the case is tall enough for that to fit.

 

[pwrusr]

A 2x80mm rad probably wouldn't fit in that case, actually. Those rads are around 205mm, so 45mm more than the two fans. I don't think the case is tall enough for that to fit.

Hmmm, good catch!

 

[Phuncz]

Sure, and I've done concepts like that. This concept, for example, which I haven't shown before:

Damn that's a timeless, clean and efficient design. To me, this is more of an mATX version of the M1 than the one that is modeled to look like it. Though the Monolith (I'm naming it, tired of looking up the image) is still my favorite.

 

[sunefred]

Do you have any access to working with plastics? I strongly favor front vented cases, and you can do some clever tricks to make it look awesome and not just like a sheet of metal with punched holes. We have Dell Precisions at work and they have a very nice front panel IMO, handle and grill both.

Then there is of course also the new GPU chassi from Razer that does a similar thing but with metal. But I am guessing they have to use a very different process than laser cutting and bending sheets of metal to achieve this.

 

[primordialpouch]

Damn that's a timeless, clean and efficient design. To me, this is more of an mATX version of the M1 than the one that is modeled to look like it. Though the Monolith (I'm naming it, tired of looking up the image) is still my favorite.

I have to agree with Phuncz that what he refers to as the Monolith is my favorite to date. Not only is that intake design unique (at least to me, I haven't seen anything even remotely similar to it), but it has the ability to mount 3.5" HDDs, which may not be as important to some users, but is important to me since it allows for 2 2.5" mounts per every 3.5" mount as well as some 4TB drives that can be used for backup in there.

Wish we could do something about the overall look of it, sort of how the M1 has a unique front to it. To me right now all of these, with the exception of 2b (This one: http://i.imgur.com/X35JsIQ.jpg), just look like bigger rectangles.

Sure, and I've done concepts like that. This concept, for example, which I haven't shown before:



Note that the front edges, like on the LRPC, are sharp, and that's because you can't really transition cleanly between bent sheet metal edges that are 90 degrees from eachother. On the M1 for example, the top edges can't be bent because there's no (clean) way to carry the bend all the way around the front, but the angled front wouldn't be possible if the top edges were bent instead. So it really depends on what you want to do with the design.

A 2x80mm rad probably wouldn't fit in that case, actually. Those rads are around 205mm, so 45mm more than the two fans. I don't think the case is tall enough for that to fit.

Would the 3.5" mounts be on the top for this case?
Also, to be 100% honest, the thing that turns me away from this case is that the intake reminds me too much of fractal design with those horizontal slits.

 

[pwrusr]

Also, to be 100% honest, the thing that turns me away from this case is that the intake reminds me too much of fractal design with those horizontal slits.

I'm not really sure how else to get the front of the case looking clean. The only other way I can think of is giving the front of the case more breathing room while opining up just the very bottom of the front cover. Maybe hexigon holes along the side to be different

 

[astheria]

All these black boxes just look like premium versions of what other manufacturer's could be making. They just look like a black computer tower.

These designs look like something worth a premium price and like something I could not buy elsewhere (much like the M1), anything short of that feels a bit like a wasted effort even if the internal layout is nice.

 

[Necere]

Though the Monolith (I'm naming it, tired of looking up the image) is still my favorite.

Works for me.

Do you have any access to working with plastics? I strongly favor front vented cases, and you can do some clever tricks to make it look awesome and not just like a sheet of metal with punched holes. We have Dell Precisions at work and they have a very nice front panel IMO, handle and grill both.

The issue with plastic is that it's quite expensive for the mold tooling - in the tens of thousands of dollars. Also it does require a different skill set than sheet metal, and without that background I'm personally wary of doing it, since mistakes could be quite costly.

Then there is of course also the new GPU chassi from Razer that does a similar thing but with metal. But I am guessing they have to use a very different process than laser cutting and bending sheets of metal to achieve this.

I believe the exterior shell is extruded aluminum, while the finned front and inner top/bottom appear to be plastic (and totally cosmetic, as far as I can tell). It's true that plastic does afford a lot more versatility in terms of design though, with some nice 3D design elements that wouldn't be possible to do in sheet metal.

Wish we could do something about the overall look of it, sort of how the M1 has a unique front to it. To me right now all of these, with the exception of 2b (This one: http://i.imgur.com/X35JsIQ.jpg), just look like bigger rectangles.

Well, I have tried a few things, but not many people have liked them. Sheet metal does severely limit what you can do beyond planar surfaces and simple, two dimensional bends.

Would the 3.5" mounts be on the top for this case?

Yeah, the top section in that concept houses an SFX PSU, probably 1x3.5" HDD and 2x2.5", slim optical drive and cables.

Also, to be 100% honest, the thing that turns me away from this case is that the intake reminds me too much of fractal design with those horizontal slits.

There's only so many ways to do air intakes. It's pretty much all been done before, so it's going to remind you of something else no matter what. Are Fractal cases so bad?

All these black boxes just look like premium versions of what other manufacturer's could be making. They just look like a black computer tower.

These designs look like something worth a premium price and like something I could not buy elsewhere (much like the M1), anything short of that feels a bit like a wasted effort even if the internal layout is nice.

So from your choices I take it you prefer silver or silver/black cases, rather than all black? Aside from the hoop feet on the first one, these are basically still "just boxes."

 

[MostComfortable]

I haven't fully understood the mATX platform. It feels like ATX or really small like ITX are the interesting choices. Or perhaps that mDTX, that is slightly bigger than ITX. But it's something to ponder about...

I agree. The difference between mATX and ATX isn't big enough to warrant a case of that size, the end difference is marginal. ITX is where the real magic happens in terms of size reduction, that and losing the optical drive bay.

 

[primordialpouch]

Works for me.

The issue with plastic is that it's quite expensive for the mold tooling - in the tens of thousands of dollars. Also it does require a different skill set than sheet metal, and without that background I'm personally wary of doing it, since mistakes could be quite costly.

I believe the exterior shell is extruded aluminum, while the finned front and inner top/bottom appear to be plastic (and totally cosmetic, as far as I can tell). It's true that plastic does afford a lot more versatility in terms of design though, with some nice 3D design elements that wouldn't be possible to do in sheet metal.

Well, I have tried a few things, but not many people have liked them. Sheet metal does severely limit what you can do beyond planar surfaces and simple, two dimensional bends.

Yeah, the top section in that concept houses an SFX PSU, probably 1x3.5" HDD and 2x2.5", slim optical drive and cables.
There's only so many ways to do air intakes. It's pretty much all been done before, so it's going to remind you of something else no matter what. Are Fractal cases so bad?

So from your choices I take it you prefer silver or silver/black cases, rather than all black? Aside from the hoop feet on the first one, these are basically still "just boxes."

Would it maybe be possible to combine the front panel of monolith with cutouts for the I/O/slim optical with the design elements of the other (the one that looks like fractal right now?)
I mean, I totally like the monolith, but if people like the layout of the fractal looking one I could be down for getting behind it.
I truly just think that the front intake of monolith is very unique and something that shouldn't be lost at this point.

 

[Necere]

Would it maybe be possible to combine the front panel of monolith with cutouts for the I/O/slim optical with the design elements of the other (the one that looks like fractal right now?)
I mean, I totally like the monolith, but if people like the layout of the fractal looking one I could be down for getting behind it.
I truly just think that the front intake of monolith is very unique and something that shouldn't be lost at this point.

Well, so far Phuncz is the only one who's said they liked it (but still prefers the Monolith). In terms of layout, the major difference is top SFX vs. bottom ATX PSU, and the Monolith being somewhat larger. Remember the bottom PSU could allow for mounting ATX motherboards, which wouldn't be possible with a top-mounted (unless the motherboard is reversed).

 

[Kaos_Drem]

Works for me.

I believe the exterior shell is extruded aluminum, while the finned front and inner top/bottom appear to be plastic (and totally cosmetic, as far as I can tell). It's true that plastic does afford a lot more versatility in terms of design though, with some nice 3D design elements that wouldn't be possible to do in sheet metal.

I have used one in testing and taken it apart trust me when I say its all metal. Its an extruded aluminum shell with steel inner frame pieces and the front that is wavy like a ruffled chip is all metal (haven't bothered to check if aluminum or steel). It is vented on the top and bottom and solid on the front.

 

[Necere]

I have used one in testing and taken it apart trust me when I say its all metal. Its an extruded aluminum shell with steel inner frame pieces and the front that is wavy like a ruffled chip is all metal (haven't bothered to check if aluminum or steel). It is vented on the top and bottom and solid on the front.

I see. It's hard to tell from pictures, but from the shape of it it doesn't look extruded, so I figured the simplest and therefore most likely way to make it is from plastic. If it is metal, I'm kind of curious what process they used.

 

[primordialpouch]

Well, so far Phuncz is the only one who's said they liked it (but still prefers the Monolith). In terms of layout, the major difference is top SFX vs. bottom ATX PSU, and the Monolith being somewhat larger. Remember the bottom PSU could allow for mounting ATX motherboards, which wouldn't be possible with a top-mounted (unless the motherboard is reversed).

Okay, well that makes sense then. Honestly the ATX PSU is more preferable just due to wider selection and larger fans for quieter PSUs. The ability to mount ATX motherboards is definitely a bonus.

I wonder, would it be possible to have the Monolith intake style (side openings) but have a similar front fascia to the original M1 to keep it as the "NCase style"?

 

[astheria]

So from your choices I take it you prefer silver or silver/black cases, rather than all black? Aside from the hoop feet on the first one, these are basically still "just boxes."

It's not necessarily that they're silver, but they all contain something of note, whether that be the slit on the side, the feet and curved edges, or the black/silver contrasting in a unique way. They all have that "premium feel" factor that the other designs don't quite hit. Any of those cases entirely in black (maybe with the exception of the third) would still look special.

From my experience with the M1, I'd hope that any product NCASE puts out feels remarkable and worthy of display. Any case that feels like it should be placed "under the desk" or in any way "out of sight" doesn't appeal in the way the M1 did. The PC Case Market is missing its Apple equivalent in industrial design. The M1 felt like that, I'd really hope future NCASE designs have that level of visual appeal as well paired with excellent internal layouts.

 

[Qrash]

It's not necessarily that they're silver, but they all contain something of note, whether that be the slit on the side, the feet and curved edges, or the black/silver contrasting in a unique way. They all have that "premium feel" factor that the other designs don't quite hit. Any of those cases entirely in black (maybe with the exception of the third) would still look special.

From my experience with the M1, I'd hope that any product NCASE puts out feels remarkable and worthy of display. Any case that feels like it should be placed "under the desk" or in any way "out of sight" doesn't appeal in the way the M1 did. The PC Case Market is missing its Apple equivalent in industrial design. The M1 felt like that, I'd really hope future NCASE designs have that level of visual appeal as well paired with excellent internal layouts.

Yup, this. Nailed it.

 

[vipz]

Well, so far Phuncz is the only one who's said they liked it (but still prefers the Monolith). In terms of layout, the major difference is top SFX vs. bottom ATX PSU, and the Monolith being somewhat larger. Remember the bottom PSU could allow for mounting ATX motherboards, which wouldn't be possible with a top-mounted (unless the motherboard is reversed).

I'm totally OK with the Monolith being bigger. In fact I'd prefer a honest-to-goodness 7-slot version of the Monolith, but if that is completely off the table I would still take 5-slot, ATX motherboard compatibility over mATX-only, as I don't perceive the mATX advantage - 20% smaller in only 1 dimension - to be worth the low selection drawback. For example Newegg has 61 new Z170 ATX boards and only 8 mATX, not counting third-party sellers. Yes, the case won't have some magically low Liter figure, but between 7.5mm-gate (sorry) and Kimera purposefully leaving out the SG09/10 from their comparison chart, I feel "the number" might have jumped the shark a little. It really shouldn't be the end-all-be-all for judging a case.

I'm wondering if perhaps there is room for a second, smaller variant of the Monolith for those not needing an ATX PSU. I'm thinking 3 or 4 slots, SFX PSU, ATX mobo compatibility, ~160mm width. Not sure if there's enough room for the rear-shifted front intake though.

As for the front-top-PSU-exhaust layout, it seems a bit of a non-starter for air-cooling builds - none of the CPU intake options are ideal.

 

[Acapella75]

Personally, the best case you've shown is that smaller ATX case. I'd buy that without hesitation. Its damn near the same size as my TJ-08 E case.

 

[Necere]

I wonder, would it be possible to have the Monolith intake style (side openings) but have a similar front fascia to the original M1 to keep it as the "NCase style"?

I don't think it would look good. It works on the M1 because of the size and proportions, and it doesn't necessarily translate well to a wider, taller case.

It's not necessarily that they're silver, but they all contain something of note, whether that be the slit on the side, the feet and curved edges, or the black/silver contrasting in a unique way. They all have that "premium feel" factor that the other designs don't quite hit. Any of those cases entirely in black (maybe with the exception of the third) would still look special.

That's a good observation, actually. It's something I realized myself some time back. Each design should ideally have one "thing" - a unique or interesting design element or concept that sets it apart. The rest of the design should complement and support that one aspect, without distracting from it. It's important that there be only one thing or concept that the design centers around, otherwise you get a busy, incoherent design. The monolith design was "concept first" (as opposed to designing around a layout), and partly inspired by the Antec S10.

 

[primordialpouch]

That's a good observation, actually. It's something I realized myself some time back. Each design should ideally have one "thing" - a unique or interesting design element or concept that sets it apart. The rest of the design should complement and support that one aspect, without distracting from it. It's important that there be only one thing or concept that the design centers around, otherwise you get a busy, incoherent design. The monolith design was "concept first" (as opposed to designing around a layout), and partly inspired by the Antec S10.

I think through the intake of the monolith you've achieved the one design element setting it apart; all the other designs with the exception of the 1b with unique case feet look similar to other things on the market (I wouldn't compare monolith to the S10 though in terms of "copycat" design since that thing is awfully ugly).

If monolith were either matx or compactATX I could definitely see purchasing either one. If it goes compact ATX though I'd definitely like to see the full or close the full # of slots and ATX PSU for maximum peripherals/SLI.

EDIT: Upon looking at cases like the FT03 and Harbringer dopaMINE, have you ever drawn up any concepts that involved 90degree rotation of the motherboard to get that bottom up natural airflow?

 

[Necere]

If monolith were either matx or compactATX I could definitely see purchasing either one. If it goes compact ATX though I'd definitely like to see the full or close the full # of slots and ATX PSU for maximum peripherals/SLI.

I'm not sure what you mean by "compact ATX." The only real ATX concept I posted is this one, and it would have the full seven slots. The only other related thing I've talked about is a mATX case with ATX motherboard support that doesn't add any extra volume, because it would only have five slots and the bottom of the ATX board would sit behind the PSU.

Upon looking at cases like the FT03 and Harbringer dopaMINE, have you ever drawn up any concepts that involved 90degree rotation of the motherboard to get that bottom up natural airflow?

Have you seen the earliest concepts I did before the M1?

 

[prototype27]

I also like the fractal-esque design on this page, but I think it looks a bit generic--there's not much to set it apart visually from the hordes of other cases on the market. I think the trapezoidal inset from the M1 could work well with the high position of the IO/ODD on this design, which could give it some flair (I think that inset only works near the top or bottom of the front panel, though, and not in the middle).

However, my two favorites so far are the monolith and the Mac-Pro-like that has also been mentioned frequently. I actually prefer the Mac Pro, but I don't see any way to make the feet work with 2mm aluminum, and I strongly prefer anodized aluminum to steel. The one thing that bugs me about the monolith is the IO cluster--it looks out of place so far from any edges or other lines to break up the vast expanse of the top panel. Is there room to move it closer to the edge of the top panel, or even onto the top edge of the front panel? Barring that, a trapezoidal inset could work here too, at least visually, but I don't see an obvious way to accomplish that without breaking the top panel into two pieces.

 

[knupauger]

So from your choices I take it you prefer silver or silver/black cases, rather than all black? Aside from the hoop feet on the first one, these are basically still "just boxes."

All your designs are wonderful and the case market wouldn't be the same anymore if your designs would appear in the online stores at a competitive price point. But since your designs are very expensive due to the size of the production, they have to be really, really special and unique to justify the hefty price point. And I have to admit that most of your designs, as wonderful as they are, don't really achieve that in my opinion. I assume you feel the same way about your designs because you must have been going back and forth with your ideas for probably a year now (and to be brutally honest, I have the feeling that we are running in circles and not exploring different design options anymore).

Your Apple-inspired silver/black designs are different though. They are not just ravishingly beautiful and elegant, they are also unique. There is nothing like that in the PC-market, and in my opinion they easily beat the Apple-designs as well. The only maufacturer who could probably compete with your silver/black designs is Abee, but they make many unfortunate design decisions when it comes to the internal layout of their cases. When I look at your "black monoliths", I'm impressed with the designs and internal layouts, but I'm not sure if I would buy one of these for 200+ Dollars. Not when manufacturers like Jonsbo offer beautiful "black monoliths" as well for half the price.

What you need is an outstanding internal layout for your silver/black designs, and since it was mentioned again I too have to agree that mATX is probably not the right form-factor to achieve that. There is just so little you can do with or gain from mATX. And looking at the enthusiast market the form-factor doesn't seem to be that popular either. Not the best conditions to design a 200+ Dollar case.

Have you considered to combine your silver/black design and your design concepts (clean three-fan airflow, solid side panels, ATX-PSUs) with an ITX-layout instead?

 

[primordialpouch]

I'm not sure what you mean by "compact ATX." The only real ATX concept I posted is this one, and it would have the full seven slots. The only other related thing I've talked about is a mATX case with ATX motherboard support that doesn't add any extra volume, because it would only have five slots and the bottom of the ATX board would sit behind the PSU.

Have you seen the earliest concepts I did before the M1?

I liked the ATX concept you had posted there. Sleek and relatively compact.

I feel like the mATX case with ATX mobo support where the PSU blocks some of the slots begs the question why not just use mATX, alas, I'm more for either the true ATX or mATX at this point. Was just thinking out loud there.

And I hadn't since that thread is a little large, but ah, now that I see it in a drawn up form it definitely seems a little more impractical from a compactness perspective unless you're putting the PSU over the mobo, which has air cooling limitations. Not to mention your previous problems with manufacturing that style case. How unfortunate

Still a huge fan of monolith and that ATX case design you put forward.

EDIT: As an aside....do you possibly have a Sketchup component layout and additional renders of that ATX design? I wouldn't mind seeing some more of that and playing around with it.

 

[Aircoookie]

IMHO the limited ATX concept does make sense, because it adds practically nothing to the case size. The point is that there's like 5x as many ATX boards on the market than mATX, so you have a way broader selection.

 

[Pat-Roner]

I agree. The difference between mATX and ATX isn't big enough to warrant a case of that size, the end difference is marginal. ITX is where the real magic happens in terms of size reduction, that and losing the optical drive bay.

I so agree with you on this one. If I'm to be 100% honest, I would love for this project to rather be a slightly bigger ITX case, with room for more cooling and atx psu, rather than mATX.

But I suppose I'm the only one, and would still gladly buy a Monolith regardless of the size. Damn that case is gorgeous!

 

[Necere]

So I've been talking with w360 the last couple of days, and here's the thing: the cost to ship a bigger box is, unsurprisingly, more than a small box. Specifically, for a case in the 30L range, we're looking at a shipping cost of ~$80, which... is quite a bit. That means, basically, if we were to do this case exactly the same way as we're doing the M1 (i.e., manufacturing with LL, shipping from TW), we're looking at something probably at or near $300 after shipping, but before customs fees even kick in (for customers outside the US). That to me is really a nonstarter. It's in the ballpark of what the Kimera Industries Cerberus is going for (or would be), and it really seems to be the #1 sticking point for people, going by the comments on HardwareCanucks' preview. I'm not going to pretend that whatever I come up with is going to be so much better that people will overlook the price tag.

So we need a good product at a price that's viable. To that end, we've been looking into some alternative options to try to reduce costs. This also has implications to the design of the case, as certain aspects may need to be simplified or re-engineered, and some concepts may not be feasible. Unfortunately, this may mean some of the favorites have to be cut from consideration. Nevertheless, I think if we can deliver nice cases at a price that won't melt your wallet, we can do well and people will be happy. Making something that's good, but still accessible, is really what's most important to me, and, if we possibly can, we're going to try to make that happen.

 

[vipz]

Sucks to be brought back down to earth. I guess at this point we'll just have to wait to hear more about the cost reduction measures and the new designs that result. I'm curious if any of that can be applied to the M1 to bring its cost down further? What would be lowest cost for a case that you can still call an M1?

 

[Necere]

I'm curious if any of that can be applied to the M1 to bring its cost down further? What would be lowest cost for a case that you can still call an M1?

I think it's unlikely we'll re-engineer the M1. It's more likely we'll create something altogether new instead.

Interestingly, the major cost savings you get from a smaller case is in the shipping; machine time, bend counts, finishes, etc. are really what drive production costs - the raw quantity of sheet metal is a much smaller factor in the overall cost.

 

[Phuncz]

Personally I wouldn't mind you went the Ikea-route, having to assemble the case on delivery. I would personally love it, there's nothing like assembling a high-quality product by hand. But Aluminium does make it harder because of the threading, although steel inserts could solve that. But it could drastically lower shipping costs I'd guess, because of serious reduction in packaging in one dimension. And it would also allow easier replacement parts, custom-made parts, upgrade kits, what-not.

Also, optimizing packaging is something that should be done at the macro and micro level, get as many quantities in a shipping container and allowing a good protection of the goods inside each packaged unit.

 

[Deleted member 222586]

So I've been talking with w360 the last couple of days, and here's the thing: the cost to ship a bigger box is, unsurprisingly, more than a small box. Specifically, for a case in the 30L range, we're looking at a shipping cost of ~$80, which... is quite a bit. That means, basically, if we were to do this case exactly the same way as we're doing the M1 (i.e., manufacturing with LL, shipping from TW), we're looking at something probably at or near $300 after shipping, but before customs fees even kick in (for customers outside the US). That to me is really a nonstarter. It's in the ballpark of what the Kimera Industries Cerberus is going for (or would be), and it really seems to be the #1 sticking point for people, going by the comments on HardwareCanucks' preview. I'm not going to pretend that whatever I come up with is going to be so much better that people will overlook the price tag.

So we need a good product at a price that's viable. To that end, we've been looking into some alternative options to try to reduce costs. This also has implications to the design of the case, as certain aspects may need to be simplified or re-engineered, and some concepts may not be feasible. Unfortunately, this may mean some of the favorites have to be cut from consideration. Nevertheless, I think if we can deliver nice cases at a price that won't melt your wallet, we can do well and people will be happy. Making something that's good, but still accessible, is really what's most important to me, and, if we possibly can, we're going to try to make that happen.

Wowza! $80 frigging dollars... isn't there a way you could drop-ship the case? What I mean is that instead of individually sending every case to his future owner... send a big number to the continent in question, then resend them there. It should be much cheaper, IMO.

But still, there is one thing that you should realise with high shipping: I'm not buying a $120 case with $80 shipping. Its just pointless, as spending 40% of the budget on shipping is a big no-no. On the other hand, $80 on a $240 is something entirely different. Simply put: shipping is something that has no value for the customers. Its simply the means to get what we want. So do not save costs and consider a design that isn't #1 just to say $30 because, at the end, $30 on a $300 case (for Europeans it will be much more, if you consider taxes, so more to my point) is nothing.

PS: and this gives even more points towards LRPC