Battlefield V NVIDIA Ray Tracing RTX 2080 Ti Performance @ [H]

Discussion in 'Video Cards' started by Kyle_Bennett, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. Mister E

    Mister E ?

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    I’m starting to think that the lie is not only encompassing the RTX line but DX12 as a whole. We were promised so much years and years ago and hardly any of it has come to light.
     
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  2. jpcahn1

    jpcahn1 [H]Lite

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    The fact that this is the only title released with Ray Tracing enhances the lie of us having several titles with it. DLSS is another whopper. Where is my DLSS patch for Darksiders 3? Nevermind I already beat it so too late. Same with Shadow of the Tomb Raider. So glad I stuck with my 1080ti and did not fall for it.
     
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  3. Rizen

    Rizen [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Actual ray-tracing? No.

    What they are using in BF:V today? Yes, most likely.
     
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  4. noko

    noko [H]ardness Supreme

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    I am seeing better performance with DX 12 over DX 11 with Vega FE. That is with single player and with Ryzen so not apples to apples on the game.
     
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  5. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I think this is great news. It means we can skip this generation and see what comes next. :D
     
  6. doughead

    doughead Limp Gawd

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    Did anyone notice how smug Jensen was when he pointed at the frame rate chart and said "We are aware of that" when the screen showed the frame rate dropped after enabling DXR? He then went on to show the DLSS feature pushing ("boop") the frame rate back up again. The optimistic side of me tells me he has an ace card up his sleeve but I know we should all manage our expectations after seeing how much VRAM is needed when enabling DXR in the above article/findings. I don't know if DLSS could circumvent the lack of VRAM.
     
  7. Bigshrimp

    Bigshrimp Limp Gawd

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    There is simply not any incentives after weighing the cost versus performance of these cards, so I am glad I stuck with my GTX 1070. I really can't wait to see what AMD has for their next NAVI architecture. I hope it's like their new CPU Ryzen line and gives some true competition to Nvidia.

    I loved my ATI 9700 Pro when I got Half Life 2 with it.
     
  8. Hameeeedo

    Hameeeedo Limp Gawd

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  9. Nightfire

    Nightfire [H]ard|Gawd

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    It may be time to take off the tin foil hat, but the DX12 results almost seem...artificially degraded.

    Not only does the FPS take a huge hit, which makes ray tracing suffer before it is even turned on, but the vram usage is just madness.

    Does dx12 in these games extend the Gameworks distances akin to the miles away Hairworks debacle in FFXV so as to make ray tracing work when it is turned on?
    We really need to see how dx12 is affecting Vega.

    BTW, great article HArdocp. The Bottom Line was hilarious!
     
  10. Brent_Justice

    Brent_Justice [H] Video Card Managing Editor Staff Member

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    Our CPU is not the bottleneck - https://www.hardocp.com/article/2019/01/02/battlefield_v_nvidia_ray_tracing_cpu_testing/

    I do not know how computerbase evaluates its performance in that multiplayer map, so I can't comment on that. For all I know they are standing in one place, or moving back and forth in just one area, or testing only 1 minute of gameplay, I do not know.

    What I can tell you about how we test is that I play a real-world live 64 player match loaded with 64 players just like a normal gamer. I time it for 5 minutes each run, and do several runs. I make sure to explore not just one area, but all areas of the map that I can, especially in spots I know that are lower in performance since that is the worse case scenario, but also the real-world scenario.

    In my experience of Rotterdam with DXR performance can very GREATLY depending on what part of the map you are in, and where you are. I find the lowest performance seems to be right under the train bridge, for the entire length of that area framerates are the lowest. Framerates are also low inside the mansion with the shiny floor. Framerates are typically much higher in indoor environments, and in the area next to the water. The framerates can deviate 15FPS easily between all those spots. So your average framerate can be higher or lower just depending on where you benchmark at in the map. This is also a major point we have to make, the fact that framerate varies so much with DXR is a problem. Someone could easily bias the average framerate in Rotterdam if they specifically stay in one area over another, either higher or lower fps. SO BE CAREFUL with other reviews. Again, I test in all areas to get an average, so now you know how we do it.
     
  11. MavericK

    MavericK Zero Cool

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    Seems like it's been every other DX release that offered something good. DX9 good, DX10 meh, DX11 good, DX12 meh. So maybe DX13 will be better? :p
     
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  12. Ranger101

    Ranger101 [H]Lite

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    A seriously scathing review. Clearly the standards for "playability" are elitist at the {H}, which I get, but for some,
    including myself, the RTX experience in Battlefield on an RTX 2080, even above 1080P is
    acceptable at minimum. I certainly did not purchase my RTX card solely for that purpose as I'm sure is the case
    with many RTX owners, so I'm not quite sure why you continue to belabour the point of, "You don’t spend that amount of money
    just to play BFV at 1080p." Lest we forget, RTX cards are very strong performers in non RTX games which is the probable
    use case for most prospective buyers. Nevertheless, I can see why for many, this would be a very fair review. It's just that I'm
    not one of them :)
     
  13. GoodBoy

    GoodBoy [H]ard|Gawd

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    Thanks Brent and [H] for the work in these reviews.

    Now that you have had some time playing the game with DXR on vs off and at various resolutions, what would your subjective image quality impressions be of the game in 1080p ultra DXR, vs 4k no DXR?

    i.e., is the visual benefit from DXR worth the loss in resolution, everything else being equal?
     
  14. Upgrayedd

    Upgrayedd Limp Gawd

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    I understand the CPU is at 5GHz but I feel like the 4 cores are holding the results back a bit.

    index.png
     
  15. Nightfire

    Nightfire [H]ard|Gawd

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    What are you even referencing with that graph? What game/settings is that? They tested the CPU and it was no better with a 9900k while running RTX on.
     
  16. Mister E

    Mister E ?

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    Like Star Trek movies of old, lets hope so. Cept the even treks were awesome.
     
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  17. Brent_Justice

    Brent_Justice [H] Video Card Managing Editor Staff Member

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  18. Ranger101

    Ranger101 [H]Lite

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    I think they answered that question in this review, a fairly resounding "NO," but obviously it's a subjective conclusion...Ymmv.
     
  19. Hameeeedo

    Hameeeedo Limp Gawd

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    Yes it is, your results don't agree with other sites that use higher CPUs, it doesn't agree with many YouTubers who captured their runs with higher CPUs as well.

    Your CPU comparison compared an 8 thread CPU to another 8 thread CPU. DXR in Battlefield requires a minimum of 12 threads CPU, even a Ryzen 1800X can bottleneck the game with DXR as Digitalfoundry found out.

    At 1440p low DXR, You have the 2080Ti just 13% faster than a 2080, and the 2080 just 5% faster than the 2070, which is impossible unless you are severely CPU limited.

    Your numbers at 1080p are also screwed, showing only 10% between cards, whether at low or ultra DXR, which is another sign that you have a massive CPU bottleneck.

    I don't know how you can claim you are not CPU limited while using a CPU that is begged at 90% usage most of the time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
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  20. Upgrayedd

    Upgrayedd Limp Gawd

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    For sure but that is also DX12 which we all know is slower than DX11 even without DXR enabled. I guess guru3D never stated which API they were using for their core scaling tests either.
    If scaling proves itself in DX11 and not DX12 then there is something seriously wrong with the DX12 implementation.
    I wonder what core scaling looks like for either API with smt on/off and with different core counts from the same processor families.
     
  21. Upgrayedd

    Upgrayedd Limp Gawd

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  22. Brent_Justice

    Brent_Justice [H] Video Card Managing Editor Staff Member

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  23. noko

    noko [H]ardness Supreme

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    One really cannot compare different sites results that were tested way differently. A canned benchmark is about the only way but it’s value in many cases are meaningless.

    Brent from my observations is about the best tester in the world for finding where a card struggles in a game. Looking up into the sky and getting mega FPS is meaningless. In a battle it is nice to know how it really performs.

    With DXR it looks to be GPU limited, does CPU usage go up? Stays the same? Or goes down? If it stays the same or down and the FPS Goes down with DXR then it is highly unlikely CPU bound but GPU bound.
     
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  24. Hameeeedo

    Hameeeedo Limp Gawd

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    I read it whole, it still doesn't explain the massive inconsistencies you have with your numbers. The differences between the 2070, 2080 and 2080Ti are completely compressed in your testing as a result of a massive CPU bottlneck. And your 2080Ti is bascially doing 2060 level of performance

    Also ComputerBase tests a live match in the mansion area of Rotterdam.

    It goes considerably up because the ray setup is CPU intensive.
     
  25. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    Didn’t Kyle buy a 9900k to put this to bed IIRC?

    I was personally impressed they got RT running as well as they did although in the wrong type of game genre. I wish a game like World of Warships would implement it where proper lighting would be amazing.

    Overall what I am really really disappointed with is the adoption rate of DLSS2x/DLSS/Ray Tracing.
     
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  26. Ranger101

    Ranger101 [H]Lite

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    GPU reviews at the {H} are of a very high standard imo. There are other extremely capable reviewers and some of their experiences do appear to be at odds with what is being reported here.

    Make of it what you will.
     
  27. R_Type

    R_Type Limp Gawd

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    There is that but then again this one game is the lead title for DXR both in terms of development resources and marketing. BF 5 is the drum that's getting banged here by the people trying to sell you a Turing card. Sadly that drum has a big hole in the middle of it.
     
  28. lostin3d

    lostin3d [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'm looking forward to that too. My only real concern is that the previous Metro's can still bring even a 2080TI in 4k to a crawl with AA maxed, most I can do is x2 for 50-60fps with them. One of the places I usually test with is Venice. Right after you get off the raft and walk thru market it can get pretty rough. Once you get above ground in the marsh the same again. They were a part of the first slew of games I tested when I got it. I tested both versions of both games. I do have a sneaky suspicion that modern drivers might be hampering it. Some tin foil hat stuff-really seems like performance for these has decreased over the last couple of years since I went from 970SLI>1080SLI>2080TI. Love the Metro's but Exodus could be a whole new world of hurt for modern cards again. This is one of the few games I'll pre-order and I'll suffer along with my card for it.
     
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  29. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    I am definitely interested in seeing how a game that is completely ray traced would perform on the hardware we have available compared to the hybrid method currently being employed.
    The only way for price to come down is to decrease the rasterization or ray tracing hardware in the chip. Which means developers have to make a decision: do we continue to languish in a rasterized world or do we move forward into a ray traced one?
    ComputerBase just say they use the Ultra preset with Future Frame Rendering turned on. [H] goes beyond the Ultra preset as detailed here:
    https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/12/17/battlefield_v_nvidia_ray_tracing_rtx_2070_performance/2
     
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  30. lostin3d

    lostin3d [H]ard|Gawd

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    As Armenius had stated about a game known with DX12 issues it gave me an idea.

    Facts:
    1. Brent has done exhaustive testing showing the CPU load and performance.
    2. Early on it was explained when DX12 was revealed that it would lower hardware loads but require extra coding at the engine software level to achieve that while previous API's used to mainly just dump it to hardware.

    Theory:

    What if BFV's engine is flagging the core/thread count and then limiting itself? It would completely ignore a screaming 5ghz 4c/8t and then favor high counts regardless of speed. The lower count CPU would never see its full potential but appear bottlenecked to anyone not checking like Brent did. With three very different rigs in my house whose only commonality it 2133mhz(misc. CAS) 32gb ram and same W10 builds I've seen some strange things with DX12. It's a wacky beast that depends on the dev a lot more than previous API's did. A hammer approach will still mostly(I've seen a couple of exceptions) work with previous API's but not necessarily with DX12.
     
  31. Rizen

    Rizen [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The 7700K is 4C/8T and the 9700k is 8C/8T. Physical cores perform better than logical cores, so I'd still expect to see better performance on the 9700K if the threading was a limitation.
     
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  32. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett Editor-in-Chief HardOCP Staff Member

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    If we are CPU limited, then why did we see framerate scaling across the different cards? That said, Brent now has a 9900K in hand to use, and we will be publishing our findings.
     
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  33. lollerwaffle

    lollerwaffle Gawd

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    "The fact is that Jensen Huang stood on that stage last night at CES and lied to you."

    That's a strong statement and I think it is good to say. Doesn't look like the rest of the "tech sites" are doing any real analysis because everyone is lapping up this piece of crap 6GB $350 card.
    If the 2060 was $250, OK. But it's up there with the 8GB cards only in price ana general performance. When you actually want to use the shiny, it fails you. Waiting for more games is some crap.

    Jensen Huang is very intentionally deceiving. A 6GB card at $350 is bullshit and he knows it, so he makes it more palatable with RTX.

    I really hope AMD mule kicks NVIDIAs heads out of their collective asses with their upcoming releases. I'd be happy to buy a GTX2080 for ~$500.
     
  34. Hameeeedo

    Hameeeedo Limp Gawd

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    The difference between the 2080 and 2080Ti @4K (where CPU plays very little part) is huge:75%, part of that is VRAM, but part of it is the liberation of that CPU bottleneck too. You should see at least a 40% difference between the 2080TI and 2080 at any point.

    I am looking forward to your finding with the 9900K.
     
  35. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett Editor-in-Chief HardOCP Staff Member

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    Fair deal. We will see how it all works out. If anything, we will fully determine if you need a 8C CPU to play BFV online.
     
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  36. The Cobra

    The Cobra 2[H]4U

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    I wonder if BF-V scales across 16 cores...
     
  37. Rizen

    Rizen [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'm really doubting that BFV requires more than ~6C/T. Game engines traditionally do not scale as well as say, rendering applications, because there are many parts of the game engine that are difficult or hard to multi-thread. I could certainly be wrong, but I can't think of any other games that scale to 8 cores, and none beyond that.
     
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  38. The Cobra

    The Cobra 2[H]4U

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    BF4, BF1, Forza, GTA V, Assassin's Creed...
     
  39. Nolan7689

    Nolan7689 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I really hope you aren’t rooting for AMD purely in hopes of pushing down Nvidia prices. (Assuming competitive performance) It’s part of the problem to only hope the competitor drives prices into your range. It’s unsustainable for the competitor, which well, if they can’t compete then they can’t compete but if they are actually competing....
     
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  40. Rizen

    Rizen [H]ardForum Junkie

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    BF4 definitely didn't scale beyond 6 cores:
    BF1 doesn't either: https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/battlefield-1-directx-12-benchmark,review-33864-8.html

    GTA V doesn't really either, 4 core CPU is a few frames off a 10 core CPU at 1080p and no difference at 1440p: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/multi-core-cpu-scaling-directx-11,4768-3.html

    Looks like Assassin's Creed Oddysey does, though, which is interesting. https://wccftech.com/assassins-creed-odyssey-pc-performance-explored/
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
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