Look it up !
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Ashes of the Singularity Day 1 Benchmark Preview @ [H]
primetime
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2005
- Messages
- 7,338
This is really all you can do.....one looks good the other Not so good (DX12)
285 does , but not the 280.
This is really all you can do.....one looks good the other Not so good (DX12)
I've never heard of a Titan X (or any other nVidia card) only boosting to the minimum spec. Set your card stock and see what it really boosts to. Then O/C it. You won't see anywhere near 41% above stock.
Just because it runs in DX12 mode does not mean its exploiting its advantages.
pendragon1
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2000
- Messages
- 52,262
did you even read that article you linked?! I very quickly skimmed threw it and found that it clearly says that GCN 1.0 IS compatible but only at FL 11_1.
way to prove yourself wrong...
My guess is that 11.1 to you is 12 and 12 is not 11.1 in my world.
primetime
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2005
- Messages
- 7,338
Its a Driver/Game bug simple as that.....They work on THIS generation cards First especially on stuff like this. When they get around to it im sure our cards will work correctly with Ashes...AMD is well known for prioritizing this and that before the older cards. Now the bad thing is people with 7970/280 series cards have no reason to purchase Ashes till they get it working.....doesn't work -Not gonna recommend buying it. (after all its supposed to be a finished game)
Last edited:
pendragon1
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2000
- Messages
- 52,262
go actually read that article. it is very clear that 7970/280x(GCN 1) supports DX12 FL 11_1. are you confusing the 11_1 to mean DX11?! cause that's what it seems like....
there are 3 levels of DX12 "compatibility", FL 11_1, 12_0 and 12_1.
edit: added their summary
"So summarizing, all hardware vendors fully and completely support the DirectX 12 API.
No hardware vendor can claim 100% support of all hardware features and the differences are usually negligible in nature. If one is deciding by features observable by the end user and gaming experience, the vote might fall in favour of Nvidia with its Feature Level 12_1 support which will allow advanced illumination visual effects in next generation games. That said, there are ways to simulate the effects without much of a performance hit for Radeons as well. If we are talking about performance increase (in terms of untapped potential, not maximum potential) then an argument can be made for AMD with its ASync advantage."
there are 3 levels of DX12 "compatibility", FL 11_1, 12_0 and 12_1.
edit: added their summary
"So summarizing, all hardware vendors fully and completely support the DirectX 12 API.
No hardware vendor can claim 100% support of all hardware features and the differences are usually negligible in nature. If one is deciding by features observable by the end user and gaming experience, the vote might fall in favour of Nvidia with its Feature Level 12_1 support which will allow advanced illumination visual effects in next generation games. That said, there are ways to simulate the effects without much of a performance hit for Radeons as well. If we are talking about performance increase (in terms of untapped potential, not maximum potential) then an argument can be made for AMD with its ASync advantage."
pendragon1
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2000
- Messages
- 52,262
true dat! but it could be fixed in the next driver release.
until then I cant really play unless I try and live with the glitches in DX12 as the DX11 performance is unbearable to me...
So using this logic the cards in question only support DX12 in its first level. Do we know how far into it the game has been developed for >?
pendragon1
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2000
- Messages
- 52,262
really?! now you want to try and change your argument topic! we are talking about the fact that you said 7970/280x/GCN1 card DO NOT support DX12 and provided a link that CLEARLY proved youself wrong. now you jump to something else...
no I don't know. neither do you. so wtf is you point....
no I don't know. neither do you. so wtf is you point....
My point is that those cards do not fully support DX12. It's obvious is it not. I don't have to jump to anything.
Its all here.
The topic was DX12 and we focused on exploring the details of it. Which you seem to have a problem comprehending.
No card "fully" supports it. Why not just say you were wrong and move on?
Oh yes they do . It starts at 12 and so on. Why would I want to move on. Im not wrong neither you are. You are just misinformed.
DukenukemX
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2005
- Messages
- 7,950
Here's a good video explain the situation with Nvidia and AMD's Async Compute. Simply put, Nvidia is already pretty efficient without Async Compute. But it does mean that AMD hardware hasn't been fully maxed out in performance.
pendragon1
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2000
- Messages
- 52,262
exactly! he/she just cannot accept losing an argument. they get beat with one piece of info so jump to another. have an ex-wife like that....
Can I suggest it is probably better to use the more up to date and more concise information on the wiki page: Feature levels in Direct3D
It breaks it down much better and shows the limitation of GCN1.
In this instance that information is pretty good on wiki, not always a fan of wiki myself
Cheers
Can I suggest it is probably better to use the more up to date and more concise information on the wiki page: Feature levels in Direct3D
It breaks it down much better and shows the limitation of GCN1.
In this instance that information is pretty good on wiki, not always a fan of wiki myself
Cheers
Whether GCN supports all DX12 features is irrelevant, the whole thing was started over
It's blatantly incorrect, and moving goal posts don't change that fact. 1 of 2 things could have happened here, either you misspoke and meant that GCN 1.0 didn't support the full feature set (which is irrelevant, NO AMD card currently fully supports 12_1, I didn't bother checking NV) or you were misinformed. Your statement at face value is wrong, and no dancing can change that. Plain and simple.
Demystifying DirectX 12 support in Windows 10: What AMD, Intel, and Nvidia do and don’t deliver | ExtremeTech is a really good read for anyone interested. Here's a excerpt from the end of the article.
"Just as there are very few games that require DirectX 11.2 or 11.1 (offhand, I can’t think of any), there are going to be very few DirectX 12 titles that mandate DirectX 12 FL 12_0 or 12_1. I’m not saying such games will never happen, but that’s going to be years from now, long after current GPUs have been replaced by modern hardware. If you own a GCN 1.0, Fermi, or Kepler card, you’re going to get the DirectX 12 features that matter most. That’s why Microsoft created feature levels that older GPUs could use — if Fermi, Kepler, and older GCN 1.0 cards couldn’t benefit from the core advantages of DirectX 12, Microsoft wouldn’t have qualified them to use it in the first place. The API was purposefully designed to allow for backwards compatibility in order to ensure developers would be willing to target it."
pendragon1
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2000
- Messages
- 52,262
this section?
Feature levels in Direct3D - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
just confirms everything ive said.
what I found funny was if you scroll down a bit it has a nice chart that shows that the only fully DX12 FL 12_1 compliant gpus are Intel's skylake igpus.
edit: thank you, Oni. exactly my point.
Feature levels in Direct3D - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
just confirms everything ive said.
what I found funny was if you scroll down a bit it has a nice chart that shows that the only fully DX12 FL 12_1 compliant gpus are Intel's skylake igpus.
edit: thank you, Oni. exactly my point.
Do you still think im wrong
Just as the link I provided explains it. All the features of 11.1 are part of DX 12. + 12.1 and whatever it will be moving on forward.Can I suggest it is probably better to use the more up to date and more concise information on the wiki page: Feature levels in Direct3D
It breaks it down much better and shows the limitation of GCN1.
In this instance that information is pretty good on wiki, not always a fan of wiki myself
Cheers
No single feature of level 12 is in 11.1. Logic suggest that the minimal feature set of DX12 is level feature set of 12. Cant be any simpler. This is done to accommodate feature sets for both AMD and like the feature set 12.1 which at the moment is exclusive to Nvidia only. Whats not to understand here. Or some features are exclusive to NVidia.
Last edited:
No matter how you slice it 11.1 is not 12. could be why there is a # system in place. lol
It would not be wise for neither camp to not make their DX12 cards backwards compatible with DX11.
Well it seemed from me you and Imhotep were arguing about DX12 feature 11.1 being equal to feature 12.0 (this is where Imhotep is coming from it seems to me).
It is not, as the wiki mentions DX12 do have many options, but it also has enforced feature level requirements, and unfortunately GCN1 does not meet 12.0 requirement, same way Maxwell 1 does not as well.
I mean it is very clear in the charts; maximum feature level for GCN1.0 is 11.1
Of course it can do Direct3D 12, but it cannot do 12.0 and above feature level.
Does this matter?
Well it can have implications depending upon the developer and implementation/optimisation.
On the plus side, there is one hardware that can do all DX12 related features and options... Intel Skylake.
Now who would had thought they would ever see that
And they are involved in pushing Conservative Rasterization/ROV in a couple of games, one being Just Cause 3 and the other F1 2015.
Cheers
No, logic suggests that the minimum feature level of DX12 is 11_1, as specified by Microsoft, which is what this discussion is about. Noone is arguing that GCN 1.0 cards only support up to 11_1, but 11_1 IS DX12 COMPLIANT. Go read my previous post.
EDIT: Also, there's a edit button. You don't need to make a new post and quote yourself each time you want to add something small to your previous post
In general people only do that when they're replying to multiple people, but... You're just replying to yourself? Yes, right you are. Because minimum feature set of 11.1 is what makes these DX12 cards capable of backwards compatibility.No, logic suggests that the minimum feature level of DX12 is 11_1, as specified by Microsoft, which is what this discussion is about. Noone is arguing that GCN 1.0 cards only support up to 11_1, but 11_1 IS DX12 COMPLIANT. Go read my previous post.
EDIT: Also, there's a edit button. You don't need to make a new post and quote yourself each time you want to add something small to your previous post
pendragon1
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2000
- Messages
- 52,262
you were wrong about GCN 1.0 NOT supporting DX12! period. you proved yourself wrong with the link you provided that states that GCN1 cards support DX12 FL 11_1. there are four levels of DX12: FL 11_0, 11_1, 12_0 and 12_1. wrap you f'n head around it.
DX12 FL 11_1 is not the same as DX11. It simply contains all previous features FROM DX11.
so yes you are still WRONG in your original statement that GCN1 does not support DX12. it supports the second level out of the four levels.
DX12 FL 11_1 is not the same as DX11. It simply contains all previous features FROM DX11.
so yes you are still WRONG in your original statement that GCN1 does not support DX12. it supports the second level out of the four levels.
Yes, right you are. Because minimum feature set of 11.1 is what makes these DX12 cards capable of backwards compatibility.
So then we agree, GCN 1.0 cards will run DX12 using feature level 11_1? Arguing semantics is tiring...
Because if they didn't they would not be able to run DX 11. Do we agree on that.
No semantics here. Its all facts.
pendragon1
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2000
- Messages
- 52,262
minimum level is actually DX12 FL 11_0.
YES, YOU ARE RIGHT. DX12 SUPPORTS ALL DX11 FEATURES
happy now, you're right about one thing.
YES, YOU ARE RIGHT. DX12 SUPPORTS ALL DX11 FEATURES
happy now, you're right about one thing.
No, we don't agree on that. If they didn't support 11_1 they would still run DX 11, just under the 11_0 feature set.
Your facts are wrong again.
Its you who seems to be unhappy. I cant imagine anyone developing any games in DX10. Feature set of 11 is there because as these cards are being developed along with DX12. There are some games still under development in DX11.
Also known as Feature level 11. Does it make it more clear ?
I think the issue is that you're equating feature sets with the API itself. DX12 is a API that supports feature sets 11_0, 11_1, 12_0, 12_1. Only 11_0 is mandatory to be compliant with DX12 (I was incorrect earlier when I stated 11_1 was the minimum). There is a difference between the API and feature sets.
pendragon1
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2000
- Messages
- 52,262
exactly!
DX11 has a FL 12_1. that DOES NOT mean its trying to run DX12 functions under DX11.
It does not matter if I confuse the feature set with API. Feature set 11.1 which is part of DX12. This is also where amd 280 cards are compatible or capable up to.. Which makes them sort of half baked. They are not compatible with Feature set 12 or 12.1. That's where the argument started. Do we know up to what feature set Ashes of Sigularity exploits DX12. Im confident that it is beyond feature set of 11.1.
Pendragon1 refuses to agree on that.
Well it seemed from me you and Imhotep were arguing about DX12 feature 11.1 being equal to feature 12.0 (this is where Imhotep is coming from it seems to me).
It is not, as the wiki mentions DX12 do have many options, but it also has enforced feature level requirements, and unfortunately GCN1 does not meet 12.0 requirement, same way Maxwell 1 does not as well.
I mean it is very clear in the charts; maximum feature level for GCN1.0 is 11.1
Of course it can do Direct3D 12, but it cannot do 12.0 and above feature level.
Does this matter?
Well it can have implications depending upon the developer and implementation/optimisation.
On the plus side, there is one hardware that can do all DX12 related features and options... Intel Skylake.
Now who would had thought they would ever see that
And they are involved in pushing Conservative Rasterization/ROV in a couple of games, one being Just Cause 3 and the other F1 2015.
Cheers
I have no idea why, but this post didn't show up for me. I JUST got the notification that it was posted. Nailed it bud, debating 2 different points.
