ARECA Owner's Thread (SAS/SATA RAID Cards)

Discussion in 'SSDs & Data Storage' started by odditory, Jan 5, 2010.

  1. arnemetis

    arnemetis 2[H]4U

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    Try posting those details here, you might get lucky and someone may help you. I know I just picked up my second areca last year, and it's been great with my old 4 tb drives as my new 8tb drives. The newness of your drives is likely the issue, but we need more information.
     
  2. mwroobel

    mwroobel [H]ardness Supreme

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    You mentioned 3 different cards, some of which are 10+ years old now. Please post the following information so we may better help you. The BIOS, Boot & Firmware versions installed on each of your cards. The specific drive versions (including firmware revisions) that you are attempting and whether are they connected directly or via backplane. Are there any intermediary expanders between HBA and drive? Are they SAS or SATA? If SATA, are they negotiating the correct maximum connection speed. Please post a complete log from the card. I know you said they are random, but if SATA are they on the same fanout cable? Have you tried more than one server/power source? What motherboard and PCIe slot type (both physical and electrical) is the card mounted in? Is it a "Server" motherboard or a consumer/prosumer gaming board? Do you have an nVidia or AMD PCIe graphics card mounted in the same machine/primary PCIe slot?
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
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  3. maxxmusterr

    maxxmusterr n00b

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    arnemetis:
    It also worked (and still is working great with 12x 4TB,12x6TB, and even 4x10TB (Ironwolfes)
    So until i did the upgrade on 12TB SATA Enterprise disks (tried several ones) i was the happiest Areca customer. They were rocksolid and performance is just beast.
    But since the 12TB ones it's a complete mess. I tested so much and was endlessly frustrated (and I still am, since I still don't know that i should do now).


    I already made 2 threads a while ago ...
    https://hardforum.com/threads/no-tler-erc-cctl-on-wd-gold-12tb-hgst-ultrastar-12tb.1953576/
    for example.
    No one seems to use the combination i guess....

    mwroobel
    The 1882 for example is still supported on also on HCL's of HGST (but I already mentioned that the HCL is really useless, since no stress testing on most models) so please don't put it on that ... makes me kind of upset... That's exactly what everyone told... OK, you are partitally right maybe... so i extra organized the 1882 with 4GB ECC so that no one can say "don't use old bullshit" ... and off course still the same....
    In short: SATA HD's (had tested all usable Enterprise 12TB's SATA HDs as of then + SOHO Ironwolfes), where just the Irowolfes (in some combinations) worked correctly with TLER/ERC/CCTL.
    I did test it in modern Server boards as well on pro-consumer/workstation boards (which were working with Arecas for years), newest firmware means newest firmares -everywhere. No expanders off course to rule everything out. No Power supply issues. Different cables tried of course. No backplanes - everything directly attached. PCIe slots which worked for years with over 100TB attached (x16 and x8 PCIe 2.0s and PCIe 3.0). No graphics cards and other devices.
    Oh and just because of fun i also tested it with a HP SAS Expander (the old/cheap ones most use) - same results everywhere (of course just tested on the SAS ones, the 1260 is just SATA)
    Dropouts during stress test happens on a random hardrive in the 12TB disk array. Other controllers in the system (with 4TB or/and 6TB drives and even 4 10TB ones) (other controllers are in that case the old 1260) are not affected and rockstable (at the same time) as they have been for the past 6 years.
    But this dropping behavior is expected in my eyes, if TLER/ERC/CCTL is not working....

    But i also tested it standalone with just 1 HD attached....
    I'm really done with testing and Areca proofed to not be interested.

    I just can not recommend it, if you don't have a very good return policy. Feel free to also try it out... Only very few people seem to have some of these 12TB disks and tested around with it. Basicallly what you need to do is just hook a 12TB drive (WD Gold, Seagate Enterprise/Exos or HGST) to Areca controller and tell the people if TLER/ERC/ERC is working or not. Not more needed.

    To be fair ...TLER/ERC/CCTL also did bot work often on normal HBAs (tested it on old consmerbaords)... And hell i don't even know if the HUH721212ALE600 REALLY supports TLER/ERC/CCTL (support of HGST also can't say that - they are totally ignorant) and even the huge OEM drive manual says nothing very explicit about that... But i know for example for the WD Gold that they 100% have TLER/ERC/CCTL (they also promote it very big).-> Well, it's not working until now.


    Everyone can do what he wants .... But I just want to warn other people which want to to the same... IF you have rocksolid return policy - Try it out guys. We have nearly no infos about this combination now ....
    I guess most people here are from the US anyway, where you can get the cheap 8TB (shucked) ones - I would recommend to go rather this way, since also much cheaper.
    I started to hate my "hobby"... And that's not cool. That's the biggest issue of all. And FreeNAS/ZFS was never my taste since I'm a Windows guy and like the easy and rocksolid expandability and performance of Areca. But probably now still have to move.... I'm really pissed off, but I don't even know who is to blame excatly. But I can say that I expected much more from Areca, since I tought they are a small company which is enganged and storage is their passion. And I talk about stuff here that is enterprise (cards and disks). And gosh - You would at least try to test it as Areca, right? (to tell the customer that he's a idiot ... And it works on the Arecas) (with other words of course)...
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
  4. arnemetis

    arnemetis 2[H]4U

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    maxxmusterr,
    You do present a unique scenario, very few people I think would be using the Areca cards with new, unproven 12tb drives. I took a look at your other post as well. It appears there is something off about these new 12tb drives. It's also worth noting these drives are (to me) insanely expensive, and at this time may be beyond Areca's outdated devices. Given the $400+ USD cost for these drives, I think you should be looking at a more expensive controller solution. I honestly don't know who's above Areca in this regard, but you're playing with some new toys that are obviously beyond them. I am sorry you had such poor support from them, but one of the ways Areca has value is solid hardware - so long as you don't need support. They're too small to be testing all the new drives coming out obviously. I think you'll have to start looking for a different brand which is at the cutting edge and making new controllers constantly, and you'll likely also get to enjoy the cost premium of that as well. I however cannot speak to what that brand would be, I don't even know how to approach this. Best of luck!
     
  5. mwroobel

    mwroobel [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well,,I have some potentially good news. I looked back at the linked message from when we last spoke in January. Since then, Areca has updated their HCL for HDD and where the December version I linked in that message had no 12TB drives in that list, both your SATA and the SAS counterparts have passed basic compatibility tests, are officially on the HCL which once they start the stress testing may uncover changes that need to be made. Are you sure you updated your 1882 completely (all 4 files to 1.55 for the card, and 1.16 for the onboard expander?) again, please post the complete log for the card.... Do the drives ever drop out during array creation or just After the array is up and available to the OS. What OS are you running btw?
     
  6. maxxmusterr

    maxxmusterr n00b

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    Hello guys,

    Welll these drives are actually one of the "cheaper" solutions here in Europe. Actually one of the cheapest Enterprise or even THE cheapest disks per TB at that time.. We don't have this dirt cheap 8TB WD ones. There are some cheaper ones per TB yes, but they are not so much less here, so i took the 12TB's to have maximal density.
    And they are PMR, fast as hell and have 2.5 Mio MTBF, which is great and are power saving, which were all just ++++ for me. They were technically just the best choice. And they were also the cheapst per TB around. So a no-brainer you would think.
    And HGST lists the 1882 controllers as compatible. And the only size barier i know (and we all know) was the 2TB mark. And since i had working 10TB ones... I trusted it even more.

    Well the dropouts I think, happen because of the deactivated TLER/CCTL/ERC.
    The drives drop out mostly if they have pushed some TB's of data (mostly just 1 of them at a time).

    Btw. do you know where I would see if TLER/ERC/CCTL is on or off for a specific hdd on a LSI RAID card. I didn't find any info about it?


    mwroobel
    Thanks for the update. Actually i was so frustrated over the wasted time and money, that I didn't followed the updates on HGST / Areca side. Also since it was clear, that nothing is ongoing. Maybe some day it will look better.
    And yes the 1882 is fully updated - Just updated it very recently, when It arrived from the US (because, like mentioned, I got myself the 1882, to rule my "old" cards out.). Tested with RAID6 in a Server 2012 R2 ReFS and later also (for testing) Windows 10 (for newest ReFS version).


    Since I need a solution now, (my fileserver is basically filled since then) I probably have to move to FreeNAS anyway. Even if I do really not like some aspects of it. Biggest of it is simply that i don't know anything about BSD. And I usually just run stuff I know what to to, when it stops working.... Because if something get's wrong on FreeNAS I'm screwed.
    Base line is: If you have any Areca and plan to use 12TB Enterprise disks. Be cautious and expect it not to work. And only try it, when you can return the stuff.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
  7. mwroobel

    mwroobel [H]ardness Supreme

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    Again, could you please post a complete log from the card? Again, could you answer as to if they drop out during the build too or just with an OS writing to them? Finally, did it happen with NTFS or just with ReFS?
     
  8. Lifespeed

    Lifespeed n00b

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    I need to upgrade my Areca 1882ix-16 to larger drives, ideally 12TB PMR. I have always been partial to HGST drives and currently have the well-respected 3TB models in my array. Unfortunately this thread indicates there are/were significant problems with time-outs, whose RAID-compatible time limit feature is described as TLER or CCTL depending on the mfg.

    The thread linked above indicates consumer-grade Seagate IronWolf 12TB as the only sure thing. Buying $1,600 worth of HDDs, finding they don't work, then trying to get the vendor to accept a return (not!) seems like the wrong approach. Checking with the vendors (Areca, HGST) would be ideal, except we all know they are non-responsive.

    I guess I am left with using Seagate instead of the preferred HGST drives based on uncertainty, unless I can find a vendor who will accept a return if CCTL proves not to be supported.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
  9. arnemetis

    arnemetis 2[H]4U

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    Unfortunately being on the cutting edge of tech is usually costly. You could probably get away with ordering say two drives, in order to test out tler no? Then at least the financial hit is a lot less, and you might be able to sell the drives to recoup most of your loss. I don't have a great enough experience to give you any additional help, but I wish you luck.
     
  10. Gethin

    Gethin n00b

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    I just expanded my raid set (raid 3 4x8). then went to "modify volume set" and set the volume to 24TB. \
    I expected to go to disk management and see unused space on that drive that i could expand the partition into, but didn't. How do I get the OS to see the extra space?
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2018
  11. mwroobel

    mwroobel [H]ardness Supreme

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    To save myself some retyping, Here is a link to an older post I did about the steps.
     
  12. Gethin

    Gethin n00b

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    thanks
    It was the reboot the computer part that i was missing :)
     
  13. Lifespeed

    Lifespeed n00b

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    I don't suppose anybody has tried the new Toshiba MG07ACA14TA 14 TB hard drives yet? Would live to start my new array with these, but as always, nobody can confirm they play nice with TLER and Areca 1882ix-16.
     
  14. mwroobel

    mwroobel [H]ardness Supreme

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    Check the Areca and Toshiba HCL’s and if they both list it you should be ok. Keep in mind, you are looking to pair a bleeding edge drive with an almost 8 year old controller. Even if they go through the verifications, it will generally be 6-9 months after introduction and they will usually certify the SAS versions first, and for their latest cards (1883 and 1884) with no guarantee that the firmware fixes will filter down to the older cards. Their hcl’s are also meant for an enterprise environment, which means the proper cooling, power and host environment (eg a PCIe slot where the bios hasn’t been optimized for crossfire, SLI or other consumer “enhancements” that shouldn’t but do cause issues with HBA use ranging from not seeing the card at all to spooky problems, whether they can or can’t be reproduced
     
  15. Lifespeed

    Lifespeed n00b

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    I checked Areca's HCL, but it hasn't been updated for 6 months. It doesn't seem like there are too many drives listed, but we know the list isn't exhaustive. You would think any decent HDD would have this feature by now, but sometimes the command to enable it has changed and the RAID card firmware hasn't been updated to match, which I think is the situation with the Hitachi 12TB.

    My 8 year old RAID card is just fine as far as I can tell, that would be a bit much to start buying $1,200 RAID cards every few years.
     
  16. bbito

    bbito n00b

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    Looking for 8-drive RAID10 recipe for 1883x. My firmware only has a "Quick Create" option for 0+1, do later firmwares offer 1+0? Or is there a manual recipe for 8-drive RAID10 (1+0)?
    [EDIT]: mwroobel below is correct and my post above is all wrong - my "Quick Create" option is 1+0
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  17. mwroobel

    mwroobel [H]ardness Supreme

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    The Areca supports striped mirrors (RAID10), not mirrored stripes (RAID0+1)
     
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  18. bbito

    bbito n00b

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    Wow, you are so right thank you! I seem to be getting dotty in my old age. I didn't remember 0+1, but when I had to build a new array last night I kept on looking at the 1+0 option and read it as 0+1...
     
  19. Ondrej

    Ondrej n00b

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    Hi all,
    do you think it makes real sense to upgrade from the 1882 to 1883 model today?
    I use standard SATA 6Gb/s drives. Now with 6x 10TB Seagate Iron Wolf in Raid 6 for home storage. Movie. MP3..

    I have a model of 1882-24 for two years and it works smoothly.

    Thank you
     
  20. Blue Fox

    Blue Fox [H]ardForum Junkie

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    With hard drives and your usage, you really won't notice any difference between the 1882 and 1883 series. I personally wouldn't spend the money to upgrade.
     
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