Apple 27" LED Cinema Display

Discussion in 'Displays' started by rezonat0r, Mar 18, 2010.

  1. brom42

    brom42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I picked one of these up on Thursday and I am in love. It blows away my old Dell 3007FPW. Plus it was only $899 wit my education discount. :) $1049 after taxes and with 3 years Apple care :D:D

    Everything works 100% in windows, including things like brightness as Ashok0 mentioned.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
  2. addictedto60fps

    addictedto60fps [H]ard|Gawd

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    Well, I picked up my 27" cinema display yesterday and having spent some time with it, I have very mixed feelings about it, both good and bad. I'll start off with the positives:

    The good

    1. Because it's glossy, both text/pictures look sharp and vibrant. The reflections don't bother me much and the sparkle that is noticeable in IPS displays is gone. This is pretty much the best image quality I've ever seen on any monitor.

    2. I've tried a few games and there is no discernible lag/ghosting - pretty much identical to my hp zr24w, which is what I was hoping for.

    3. Right out of the box, it works flawlessly with my radeon 5970. All the cables were just plug and play. After plugging in all the cables, the monitor powers up. The default colors/brightness were both pretty good.

    4. After installing bootcamp from the snow leopard dvd, the brightness option works flawlessly. The audio works fine, too. However, I do have a couple of issues with the audio, which I'll note below.

    The bad

    1. After having installed bootcamp from the snow leopard dvd, I've been having various issues with my pc now - windows 7 doesn't boot up properly and the pc doesn't recover after it went to sleep. Both have happened quite a few times now. I'm not happy with this at all. Also, when I open up bootcamp, it takes 20 seconds to load up.

    2. Not really a negative but something to note. The audio on the cinema display isn't very good (to be expected, of course). However, with the cinema display in use, my pc speakers don't work anymore. Because of that, I'm now forced to use the cinema display's audio. If I disconnect the apple and plug back in my zr24w, the audio from my pc speakers work again.

    Other observations

    1. While the colors on both the apple and hp are very good, I have to give the slight edge to the zr24w. The colors appear slightly more saturated and appear deeper on the hp.

    2. I bought the zr24w for $400. The apple display and the snow leopard dvd cost me over $1100 (with tax). While the image quality is improved, I'm not so sure it's worth the $700+ difference. When I look at the zr24w and while the sparkle is there, it doesn't seem to bother my eyes as much as before. Maybe I'm starting to get used to the AG coating?

    3. While the apple has one of the lowest ppi around, the difference in text clarity between the apple and hp is minimal, at best. I was hoping the difference would be night and day, but I just don't see it. It's definitely better, but it's not the night and day difference that I was expecting.

    Anyone who has bought the cinema display and installed boot camp for their pc, I have the following questions:

    1. How long does it take for bootcamp to load for you? Does it take 20 seconds?

    2. With bootcamp installed, I ony see 3 tabs: Startup Disk, Brightness, and Power. Is that what you see on yours? Are there supposed to be any other tabs or menu items?

    3. Do your pc speakers still work? With my pc speakers, I don't get any sound from them unless I unplug my apple and plug back in my zr24w.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2010
  3. Snowdog

    Snowdog Pasty Nerd with Poor Cardio

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    Doesn't the sound go through the USB. Can't you just disconnect the USB and have your normal speakers work again but still have display working on DisplayPort.
     
  4. addictedto60fps

    addictedto60fps [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yup, that did the trick. Thanks! :) Only thing is the brightness can't be adjusted anymore unless I plug the usb back in. Oh well, I guess this is to be expected, since this display was never really intended for use with a pc.
     
  5. Peteman100

    Peteman100 [H]ard|Gawd

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    How did you get it for $899? The Apple educational store shows $950 for me.
     
  6. Ashok0

    Ashok0 Limp Gawd

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    What issues are you experiencing when booting Windows 7? My boot sequence was fine after installing Boot Camp.

    I absolutely never use hibernation in Windows 7, but I just tested it and it didn't work for me. Windows 7 went to sleep but then immediately woke up. And after it woke up, it took a long time for Windows to actually load back up. Seems like a Boot Camp problem. This is a non-issue for me, but unfortunately if you use hibernation, this could be a serious problem.

    It takes about 20 seconds to load on my PC.

    Those are indeed the only 3 tabs, and the Brightness tab is the only tab that PC users need worry about.

    Yes, the speakers built into the ACD27" are only average at best. Luckily, you can use any PC speakers with your ACD27", and there is no need to disconnect your USB cable. What you need to do is disable the ACD27" speakers and re-enable your custom speakers from the Windows Control Panel.

    Click Start > Control Panel > Hardware and Sound > Manage Audio Devices

    Under the "Playback" tab, you should see two devices named "Speakers". One device (the Apple one) should be listed as the "Default Device" and will have a green checkmark next to it. Right click on this device and select "Disable". Now right click on the other device (the speakers you want to use) and select "Enable", and make sure it is set as the "Default Device".

    Well, I hope the ACD27" works out for you. I'm very sorry to hear you weren't totally satisfied with the display out of the box.
     
  7. refraxion

    refraxion [H]ardForum Junkie

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    So from what I've been reading it isn't possible to natively use the 5870 with the ACD 27"?

    That is, the non- EYEFINITY 6 edition of the 5870.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2010
  8. brom42

    brom42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    When I picked it up, the store's system was showing the educational discount as "to be determined." So the manager said since the 30" is $200 off and the 24" is $50 off, she would give me $100 off on the 27". If you go the the web page it only gives $50 off. So I just got lucky and happened to buy it when they were updating the discounts.
     
  9. Serpico

    Serpico [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You can also go into the audio settings in Windows and select the output device. I use this to switch between my SPDIF headphone amp and my speakers.
     
  10. brom42

    brom42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I always put my computer to sleep, and mine goes to sleep and wakes up without any problems. Boot camp and all. However on my computer Boot Camp stops working after the computer is put to sleep/is woken up.

    Boot camp isn't much of an issue for me. Once I get the backlight were I want it, I won't change it again. I don't thing I have adjusted the backlight on my old monitor in the last 2-3 years. So Boot Camp will be off of my system in a week or so.

    EDIT

    I will add one more thing. The older ACDs had 3rd party solutions for adjusting the screen. I am going to assume that after this screen has been out for a little longer we will get those same 3rd party solutions for the new LED screens.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2010
  11. Ashok0

    Ashok0 Limp Gawd

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    I made an interesting discovery on using Boot Camp with PCs. Obviously, when PC users install Boot Camp 3.0 + Boot Camp 3.1 Update + Apple Magic Trackpad and 27-inch LED Cinema Display Update, a lot of unnecessary drivers are installed (some of which are probably causing problems for specific hardware setups). Believe it or not, it seems there is only one single standalone file needed to control the ACD27" brightness settings on the PC: AppleControlPanel.exe. As an experiment I plugged my Apple LED Cinema 27" into another non-Boot Camp PC running Windows 7 Ultimate x64. I then downloaded ONLY the "Apple Magic Trackpad and 27-inch LED Cinema Display Update" and deflated the contents using UniExtract. After all the files were done extracting, I deleted everything except AppleControlPanel.exe.

    I ran AppleControlPanel.exe and the Boot Camp Control Panel loaded up instantly. No more 20 second delay. I selected the "Brightness" tab and was able to change the brightness from 0 to 100%. Because no actual drivers were installed, this method should work for everyone and shouldn't break anything in Windows. :) You can simply unpack AppleControlPanel.exe from the official "Apple Magic Trackpad and 27-inch LED Cinema Display Update" or I also uploaded it here:
    http://rapidshare.com/files/424506361/AppleControlPanel.zip

    I just uninstalled Boot Camp on my main PC (Do this first, important!!!), and now when I run AppleControlPanel.exe, the Boot Camp Control Panel loads up instantaneously. I can also now hibernate and wake up from sleep again! My iSight camera, microphone, speakers, and USB2.0 ports are also still fully functional. I'm liking this monitor better by the day, lol.
     
  12. brom42

    brom42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Doesn't work for me. Throws up an error:

    I am doing a system restore back to before I installed bootcamp for the first time. I screwed around with it testing it like you did. Perhaps I screwed something up.

    If that works I am going to go back to my last monthly ghost image. I want to clean up all the crap I put on there anyway.

    **EDIT**

    Still had issues after the restore. Going back to the Ghost Image.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2010
  13. addictedto60fps

    addictedto60fps [H]ard|Gawd

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    My pc would either hang or no picture came up. Very strange, but good news is that I haven't encountered anymore of these issues in the last 24 hours or so.

    Again, very strange, as for the past 24 hours or so, my pc now recovers from sleep and the monitor works properly after exiting sleep.

    Tried this and it works! Thank you! :D I don't have to listen to the monitor's crappy audio anymore. :p

    Now that my problems seem to have gone away, I'm much happier now. I was playing Starcraft II and the text in the game looks especially sharp and crisp on the apple. Whereas there was some fuzziness with the text in Starcraft II on my zr24w, it's noticeably sharper on the apple, so I'm very pleased with that.
     
  14. addictedto60fps

    addictedto60fps [H]ard|Gawd

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    Ashok0 - you rock! :D I just tried this and it works. I don't need to wait 20 seconds anymore to adjust my brightness! :cool: I also went ahead and deleted all the drivers and files that bootcamp installed onto my pc. Did you do that also?
     
  15. Ashok0

    Ashok0 Limp Gawd

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    Yeah, I took all that crap out. It's pretty sad really, out of the 1GB+ of garbage Apple packed into Boot Camp, only about 1.4MB is actually needed for the ACD27". :D
     
  16. addictedto60fps

    addictedto60fps [H]ard|Gawd

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    What are you guys using for your font size in Windows 7? I'm using 150% and when browing in firefox, I enlarge the web pages by pressing ctrl and + because everything is too tiny for me.
     
  17. Snowdog

    Snowdog Pasty Nerd with Poor Cardio

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    This is the reason I have no interest in high DPI screens. I found even the 3007-HC pixels were kind of small. The problem is that scaling support is all over the place and some effects are quite hideous. It is kind of like wide gamut where only a few applications work correctly with wide gamut monitors.

    Here is an image I took comparing Firefox (left) to Opera (right) when scaling 150% in win7.
    http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9933/win7scale.png

    Firefox scales some things, but not others. It stays sharp but there are size mis-matches.

    Opera OTOH just resizes everything, even the interface. So it all looks blurry. You are not getting a bigger font with more DPI. You get a low DPI font scaled up. It is a ridiculously bad solution and it is what most of my third party applications do!

    IMO with this DPI you need good eyes and you have to like sitting close, because there is no real software fix. I have sharp vision but I like to sit back from my monitor so small pixels just don't work for me.
     
  18. addictedto60fps

    addictedto60fps [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah, gotta agree with you here, Snowdog. I don't like how the text is all disproportional. I prefer the text on my zr24w. Oh well, I can live with it, since this apple is a really nice monitor.
     
  19. Snowdog

    Snowdog Pasty Nerd with Poor Cardio

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    I would love a 31" screen with this resolution.
     
  20. isp

    isp 2[H]4U

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  21. DefBringer

    DefBringer Limp Gawd

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    Just curious - how far away from the Apple monitor are you guys sitting? I've gone to the Apple store and played around with this monitor a lot and I've not had any issues reading the text.
     
  22. addictedto60fps

    addictedto60fps [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah, I've never had a problem with the text at the Apple store also, but when I use it with my pc, I think the text is too small. I'm sitting probably like an arm's length away from the monitor, I'm guessing.

    Thanks for the tip. Will try out later this evening.
     
  23. trader007

    trader007 n00bie

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    Ashok0, congratulations and a Big Thank you for all your Hard Work which will now make me pull the trigger once I am able to confirm that an ATI Radeon 5670 with DisplayPort will work. I have Win 7 32 Bit Installed. Do the isight Camera, Mic, USB and Speakers work with Win 7 without installing any additional Drivers. (ie by just plugging the USB cord into the PC).

    I extracted a 32 Bit version of Apple Control Panel with the Method you suggested. When I run it,it gives an error. Please could you check whether this Program works without the Apple Display plugged in. I am just trying to confirm whether I extracted the program correctly. Having the Display connected could be a prerequisite for the program to run. Thank you.
     
  24. DefBringer

    DefBringer Limp Gawd

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    This is worrisome. I don't understand why one OS would render text much differently from the other - provided DPI was set to standard 100%.

    I really hate the fact that I cannot buy this monitor without risking a restocking fee. If it strains my eye, I'm SOL....I'll have to pay at least $150 to return it!
     
  25. DefBringer

    DefBringer Limp Gawd

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    If anybody here plays WoW, I would love to see a screenshot of the game running on this monitor in its native resolution.
     
  26. addictedto60fps

    addictedto60fps [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yup, it's absolute garbage that there is a restocking fee, if you want to return any items. I personally do not like how Apple renders their font. It looks blurry and fuzzy to me. While the text looked fine at the Apple store (size wise), I could not stand how fuzzy the text was. Much clearer on the pc, but for some reason, I found the text to be too small and hard on my eyes. Because of that, I've had to make the fonts bigger on the apple when connected to my pc.
     
  27. Roliath

    Roliath 2[H]4U

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    its not going to look any different than any other high res wow screenshot?
     
  28. addictedto60fps

    addictedto60fps [H]ard|Gawd

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    I don't play wow, but honestly, I really don't notice a huge difference jumping up from 1920 x 1200 to 2560 x 1440 in my games. Maybe if you compare them side by side, you may notice a difference, but the games on my zr24w and apple both look equally amazing.
     
  29. Ashok0

    Ashok0 Limp Gawd

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    Yup, other than the brightness control, the monitor was fully functional for me after plugging in the USB cable. No drivers necessary.

    Hmmz.... I actually tested this with a PC running the 32-bit version of Windows Vista. When I didn't have the ACD27" connected to the PC, AppleControlPanel.exe (32-bit) still ran but the "Brightness" tab didn't appear. When I connected the monitor via USB only (connection to a video card not needed), the "Brightness" tab appeared and I was able to change the brightness settings. Can you describe the error you are getting?
     
  30. donzi

    donzi n00bie

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    I'm concerned about liking the glossy screen so I was interested in getting it at a place that doesn't charge a restocking fee too. That left out the Apple store. I did see that the big NYC camera (and that sort of) stores don't charge restocking fees. B&H has been great by me for camera gear and they have the display advertised at a few bucks less ($979) but it isn't in stock yet. J&R Music does have it in stock with no restocking fee. I'm waiting for my tracking number right now. ;)

    With any luck I'll have it tomorrow...
     
  31. donzi

    donzi n00bie

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    Ever get the AppleControlPanel.exe working? I'm getting the same error. I don't have the display yet. I wonder if it has to be hooked up first?
     
  32. brom42

    brom42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Nope. But I have some theories that I am working on as we speak.
     
  33. brom42

    brom42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Last edited: Oct 12, 2010
  34. addictedto60fps

    addictedto60fps [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah, I noticed it had changed my C drive to bootcamp as well. I then renamed it to main. Sorry if this is a stupid question, but does it matter if you rename it to main or anything else? Does it even matter?
     
  35. DefBringer

    DefBringer Limp Gawd

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    /nm
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2010
  36. brom42

    brom42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    OK, it happened again. But now I truely have the problem solved. Well not really solved, but isolated.


    The File from Ashok0 works as long as I have my MacOS CD in my DVD drive. You can hear it get accessed whenever I click on AppleControlPanel. When it opens it lists the OS X CD as the only Startup Disk. So apparently to get the Boot Camp Control Panel to work it needs to see a bootable OS X partition.

    Ashok0, do you happen to have a OS X partitioned drive or CD in your system?

    Oh and addictedto60fps, the hard Drive partition name doesn't matter. In my machine the only thing that matters is that there is a OS X partition in the system somewhere.

    **Edit**

    I also found that it has to be in first CD-Drive. Not letterwise, but by how it show up on your system. It has to be in the drive labeled CD-ROM 0 in Disk Manager. So I am stuck. I can get it to work well enough for the rare occasion that I need to adjust brightness I can without too much trouble, so I am calling it quits for now. :(
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2010
  37. Ashok0

    Ashok0 Limp Gawd

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    Hmmmz.... that is very strange. I tested AppleControlPanel.exe on an old DELL machine running Windows Vista 32-bit and it worked fine before plugging the display in. My DELL system doesn't have anything Apple related on it, let alone an OS X partition. The only thing in the system is an empty DVD drive, and two NTFS formatted harddrives with no volume label. When AppleControlPanel.exe opens, under the Startup Disk tab, the NTFS C: drive is listed as "Windows on disk 1".

    ???
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2010
  38. brom42

    brom42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    My windows disk doesn't show up at all. I think it needs atleast 1 disk it can work with.

    I have 2 questions:

    1) Is your system formatted with the 100mb reserved partition?
    2) How are your drives set up? IDE, RAID, or AHCI?


    **Edit**

    Set up my Marvell ESATA ports as standard IDE and plugged a drive into them. Then it shows up. This leads me to the conclusion that Bootcamp doesn't work with AHCI, which is how my main drives are set up.

    Thats a deal breaker for me. I have a SSD and need to run as AHCI so that trim works. Grr.

    **Edit #2**

    Turns out that any bootable CD in CD-ROM 0 will make it work. So basically throw in a bootable CD and click on bootcamp and it works. This is actually an acceptable solution for me. I picked up 2 cds and one of them was Windows7 and the other was ESXI. I always have something like this lying around in reach. This is the least painful option since the other involves a reformat.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2010
  39. Ashok0

    Ashok0 Limp Gawd

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    My main Windows 7 system has a reserved partition. My old Vista machine has no reserve partition. Both systems have the drives setup for IDE.


    Well, I guess for now that is a pretty acceptable solution. One thing I would be curious to know, however, is why installing Boot Camp and then uninstalling it seems to fix the issue as well?
     
  40. trader007

    trader007 n00bie

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    Hi Ashok0. I have a 40 GB Intel SSD in AHCI.The message I get, when opening AppleControlPanel.exe is :

    An error occurred while trying to access the startup disk settings.

    You may not have privileges to change the startup disk. Make sure you have administrative privileges and try again.

    I have tried running as the Administrator also.

    EDIT

    SOLVED. For those using an SSD in AHCI mode, Burn File to a CD/DVD and it will work.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2010