• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Antec CPX form factor: thoughts?

E

Elledan

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - April 2010
Joined
Oct 18, 2001
Messages
15,913
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=142

Antec has come up with a new form factor for PSUs aimed at 1k+ Watt configurations called CPX. Since it's a lot larger than the current PS/2 form factor (used in IBM PS/2 system originally, then ATX systems), it allows for more room for components and better cooling. Instead of a maximum of an 80 mm fan without using an overhead fan, a 120 mm fan fits with ease.

CPX still adheres to the ATX standard for PSUs, so it is a drop-in solution where the case supports this form factor, which is three Antec cases at this point.

Personally I wish someone would also come up with a new form factor which is smaller than the PS/2 form factor, to fit with <500 Watt PSUs. Yes, I'm aware of uATX PSUs, but they're hardly that easy to find or in large selections.

What are your thoughts on CPX? Would you use a CPX PSU and compatible case for your new system?
 
Great idea, hope it catches on, i would give up room in my case for a cheaper better performing unit any day.

Good article, must read.
 
Elledan said:
What are your thoughts on CPX? Would you use a CPX PSU and compatible case for your new system?
Click to expand...

Yes. But keep in mind that:
  1. I wrote that article so...
  2. I had to do something with the review sample ;)
  3. and I have a Twelve Hundred case to review for next week, wherein I will be showing how well this unit integrates with it
 
Oklahoma Wolf said:
Yes. But keep in mind that:
  1. I wrote that article so...
  2. I had to do something with the review sample ;)
  3. and I have a Twelve Hundred case to review for next week, wherein I will be showing how well this unit integrates with it
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know you're incredibly biased and really liked the PSU you reviewed ;)

Can't wait for the Twelve Hundred case review, BTW :)
 
Oklahoma Wolf said:
Yes. But keep in mind that:
  1. I wrote that article so...
  2. I had to do something with the review sample ;)
  3. and I have a Twelve Hundred case to review for next week, wherein I will be showing how well this unit integrates with it
Click to expand...
Lucky SOB! :p

Can't wait to read the combined review.

If only this had been done sooner, maybe it could have replaced the ATX, once...
 
It seems like a bit of a waste of space. It doesn't seem necessary for a PSU like that to be mounted in such a large case, considering there's a ton of empty space. And I think it's also the wrong direction to be transitioning to a larger form factor, considering the fact that modern PCs already take up a ton of space (with modern video cards, coolers, etc., things are big enough already).

Basically, performance of this PSU aside (because that has nothing to do with the form factor, obviously), I don't see any pressing need to transition to a larger form factor.
 
Well, the PS/2 form factor is a tad cramped when it comes to 1.5+ KW PSUs. The CPX form factor or similar offers much more internal space, allowing for cheaper configurations and in theory higher reliability plus better cooling.

I'll agree that for 700/800 Watt PSUs CPX is overkill.
 
Elledan said:
Well, the PS/2 form factor is a tad cramped when it comes to 1.5+ KW PSUs. The CPX form factor or similar offers much more internal space, allowing for cheaper configurations and in theory higher reliability plus better cooling.
Click to expand...
Granted. However, I can only think of a few kinds of system configurations that would actually require that much power, and only one decent PSU in that range anyway (Ultra X3 1600W).
 
I don't think it'll catch on without being noticably cheaper than comparable PSU's from other companies and they get other case manufacturers to support it, and this is coming from a guy that is using a Signature series 850w unit. Given that the market for these PSU's would be the vast minority of what is already a small minority of enthusiast users I don't see them getting support so it will probably remain a niche product from Antec for a year or two before getting killed.
 
Zero82z said:
Granted. However, I can only think of a few kinds of system configurations that would actually require that much power, and only one decent PSU in that range anyway (Ultra X3 1600W).
Click to expand...

i believe there's also a 1500w toughpower, don't know how good it is for sure, but the other toughpowers seem to be pretty good.
 
Zero82z said:
Yes, I forgot about that one.
Click to expand...
I know you read a lot of reviews.

As I recall the TT 1500W, although based on the same platform as their 1200W (W0133), didn't perform nearly as well as the 1200W (W0133).

Can you shed any light on this?

Many thanks,
Dave:)
 
davidhammock200 said:
I know you read a lot of reviews.

As I recall the TT 1500W, although based on the same platform as their 1200W (W0133), didn't perform nearly as well as the 1200W (W0133).

Can you shed any light on this?

Many thanks,
Dave:)
Click to expand...
The one review I found that was performed by people who actually had sufficient equipment to fully load the PSU showed that it had high ripple on the +12V rails under full load, but aside from that it displayed very good performance. I would expect it to perform better under the same conditions compared to the 1000W and 1200W Toughpower models due to it using the same platform but being rated at a higher spec.
 
Zero82z said:
The one review I found that was performed by people who actually had sufficient equipment to fully load the PSU showed that it had high ripple on the +12V rails under full load, but aside from that it displayed very good performance. I would expect it to perform better under the same conditions compared to the 1000W and 1200W Toughpower models due to it using the same platform but being rated at a higher spec.
Click to expand...
They didn't test for ripple & noise at lower power levels? :confused:
 
First I'd choose a case.

If I ended up choosing the P183 (and I'm kind of interested in it except that it's uglier than the P182) there's a very good chance I'd buy the CP-850. But not just for the sake of it being an unusual shape, it'd have to be the best combination of quality, price and quietness in the marketplace.
 
Elledan said:
Well, the PS/2 form factor is a tad cramped when it comes to 1.5+ KW PSUs. The CPX form factor or similar offers much more internal space, allowing for cheaper configurations and in theory higher reliability plus better cooling.

I'll agree that for 700/800 Watt PSUs CPX is overkill.
Click to expand...

Haven't power supply components (esp caps) gotten progressively more dense over the years? Meanwhile new but proven technologies like digital VRMs make PSUs possible in a fraction of the size (they have *tiny* pure digital PSUs for SFX machines).

If this is true and the size/price is holding and the power delivery is increasing, then what's the justification for this? Is this form factor proprietary, or being developed by Antec for a particular OEM but also marketed towards hobbyists?
 
venm11 said:
Haven't power supply components (esp caps) gotten progressively more dense over the years? Meanwhile new but proven technologies like digital VRMs make PSUs possible in a fraction of the size (they have *tiny* pure digital PSUs for SFX machines).
Click to expand...
Oh, definitely. It's mostly that the increase in PSU power (1+ kW) is outstripping the progress in AC-DC conversion as well as cooling methods. The thermal stress on a 1.5 kW PSU at 80% load is much higher than on an 800 Watt PSU at 80% load. Allowing for more PCB space and more room for cooling solutions should at least in theory make those high-power PSUs more reliable and cheaper.

AFAIK CPX is indeed developed purely by Antec, I do not know exactly how proprietary it is, or whether other manufacturers can use it as well. My guess would be that Antec wants to see it spread beyond its own PSUs and cases. So far I don't know of any OEMs using CPX, meaning that it's purely sold via retail channels.
 
Elledan said:
Oh, definitely. It's mostly that the increase in PSU power (1+ kW) is outstripping the progress in AC-DC conversion as well as cooling methods. The thermal stress on a 1.5 kW PSU at 80% load is much higher than on an 800 Watt PSU at 80% load. Allowing for more PCB space and more room for cooling solutions should at least in theory make those high-power PSUs more reliable and cheaper.

AFAIK CPX is indeed developed purely by Antec, I do not know exactly how proprietary it is, or whether other manufacturers can use it as well. My guess would be that Antec wants to see it spread beyond its own PSUs and cases. So far I don't know of any OEMs using CPX, meaning that it's purely sold via retail channels.
Click to expand...

Allright. So basically this allows for larger heatsinks and a larger volume of airflow across them without increasing fan speed and noise (I presume). It's odd, because Antec did have a PSU designed to be fanless where the case itself was part of the heatsink (extruded aluminum), radiating internally and externally -- in theory this would increase the heatsink radiating area by many times.

I honestly think ATI and Nvidia should simply offer a 12v DC power jack on their cards for an optional external brick.
 
venm11 said:
Allright. So basically this allows for larger heatsinks and a larger volume of airflow across them without increasing fan speed and noise (I presume). It's odd, because Antec did have a PSU designed to be fanless where the case itself was part of the heatsink (extruded aluminum), radiating internally and externally -- in theory this would increase the heatsink radiating area by many times.
Click to expand...
That PSU did indeed perform quite well, though I'm unsure about how many Watt it was rated for. I have no idea how well the 'massive radiator' concept would work with a 1,600 Watt PSU.

I honestly think ATI and Nvidia should simply offer a 12v DC power jack on their cards for an optional external brick.
Click to expand...

3dfx already tried this with one of their last cards (Voodoo 6?). Seemed to work fine there, though of course GPUs back then weren't exactly 200+ Watt power-guzzling monsters. Not sure about the practicality these days :)
 
Blue Fox said:
Asus tried the external power brick a few years ago. They made a dual 7800gt that included one (you didn't have to use the power brick however). Main problem with the card was that you still needed an SLI board even though it only took up a single slot. Here is the old newegg page: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121213
Click to expand...

Interesting card, seems like a nice upgrade option for those who didn't want to buy a bigger PSU back then :)
 
Zero82z said:
More like a poorly-engineered hack job.
Click to expand...

Well yeah, or that :p

I have no idea how well it performed, though the concept remains intriguing to power discrete components separately so that the total power-efficiency of a system can be increased even more and add redundancy.
 
Elledan said:
Well yeah, or that :p

I have no idea how well it performed, though the concept remains intriguing to power discrete components separately so that the total power-efficiency of a system can be increased even more and add redundancy.
Click to expand...
The adapter wasn't there to remove the load from the PSU, it was there because the card's design was incredibly inefficient. I understand why you would like the idea of separate components powered independently from each other, but that was really not the aim here. Plus, I personally don't think it would be such a great thing to have a whole bunch of separate PSUs for different components hanging out of the back of my PC.
 
Zero82z said:
The adapter wasn't there to remove the load from the PSU, it was there because the card's design was incredibly inefficient. I understand why you would like the idea of separate components powered independently from each other, but that was really not the aim here. Plus, I personally don't think it would be such a great thing to have a whole bunch of separate PSUs for different components hanging out of the back of my PC.
Click to expand...

True enough. I was thinking more of custom modular systems where upgrading the PSU would be an issue, like with hot-plugging CPUs, RAM and other components and thus the rest of the system has to keep running.
 
Zero82z said:
The adapter wasn't there to remove the load from the PSU, it was there because the card's design was incredibly inefficient. I understand why you would like the idea of separate components powered independently from each other, but that was really not the aim here. Plus, I personally don't think it would be such a great thing to have a whole bunch of separate PSUs for different components hanging out of the back of my PC.
Click to expand...

If the PSU can power ~1 gx card, then it's just the people running 2,3,4 cards that need bricks. I think that's relatively a small % of people who are fairly knowledgable and used to poking around and arranging stuff back there anyway. As for multiple bricks, it should be possible to make a single brick with multiple (and modular) 12v connectors - let's call this stanard GTX :).

If the cards and drivers are fault tolerant, then plugs can be accidentally yanked, and the PC can run without the plugs if it doesn't need those additional graphics cards running.

Honestly, I think we need external GPU cards anyway, something you can use with a laptop for extra juice, or bring with you for office gaming, etc etc. They do have an external pcie connector.
 
venm11 said:
Honestly, I think we need external GPU cards anyway, something you can use with a laptop for extra juice, or bring with you for office gaming, etc etc. They do have an external pcie connector.
Click to expand...

There are external GPUs out there. Google "Asus XG Station"
 
Digging up an old thread here, I know, but I think I have something vital to add...

Zero82z said:
It seems like a bit of a waste of space. It doesn't seem necessary for a PSU like that to be mounted in such a large case, considering there's a ton of empty space. And I think it's also the wrong direction to be transitioning to a larger form factor, considering the fact that modern PCs already take up a ton of space (with modern video cards, coolers, etc., things are big enough already).

Basically, performance of this PSU aside (because that has nothing to do with the form factor, obviously), I don't see any pressing need to transition to a larger form factor.
Click to expand...
Let's face it: No PSU rated 600W or higher adhere to the ATX / PS/2 form factor!
They do follow the standard for backplate, height and width, but fail on length. Fitting them into a case tailored to hold an ATX PSU and no bigger is impossible without modding the case. (Case designers have therefore now opted to allow larger than ATX PSUs.)
Antec simply offers a new standard that is useful for the more powerful PSUs, allowing all parts to fit inside without cheating. The design also allows for efficient and quiet cooling of the components, which is much harder to do within the ATX physical limits.

As opposed to Zero82z I really believe that the high performance of CP-850 stem from this form factor. It would be impossible to squeeze all those big capacitors into an ATX box.

The main problem with CPX is that it's proprietary to Antec. I wrote to Antec quite a while ago asking about their policy on spreading CPX to other companies that design cases and/or PSUs, but unfortunately never got any reply. :(

So, to finally state the obvious: I like the CPX form factor, and my next PSU might very well adhere to it!

Cheers
Olle
 
I don't like the idea of having my power-supply tied to a particular brand and type of case, I don't see that as doing anything for me other than limiting my options down the road.

Plenty of standards like this (remember BTX that was supposed to replace ATX?) that tried to make things "better" have come and gone having mostly failed.

Edit: Just noticed that this is an old thread. This new "standard" probably already died lol
 
Yeah, I think we've had enough standard-splitting. It creates incompatibility and undermines economies of scale. We should be able achieve power increases with the same size through increased density AND efficiency and new innovation.

That's a fair point, that PSUs don't adhere to the length requirement, but I'd rather have that than have a useless case or power supply if I never get any more CPX equipment. Flexibility is key to long-term usefulness.
 
if antec had any damn brains (along with most other high-end manufacturers, they would step back and use black cables and decent sheathing instead of the ugly ass red/yellow thats plagued us from the beginning. to add insult to injury antec claims this unit was made for the 1200....a gaming case with a WINDOW. i know not everyone wants nor has a windowed case, but it would still look alot cleaner and neater inside with the black cabling. better to have it and not need it. the fan on the front imo looks cleaner but depending on your case layout cable management will be so much more necessary to keep the airflow to the psu proper. i did consider this psu when i recently replaced mine but as it didnt have the cabling necessary for my build i skipped it. i spend enough on the psu. i shouldnt need to invalidate the warranty and spend extra money on sheathing so it doesnt look like medusa puked in my box.
 
Rogue71 said:
if antec had any damn brains (along with most other high-end manufacturers, they would step back and use black cables and decent sheathing instead of the ugly ass red/yellow thats plagued us from the beginning.
Click to expand...
The cables are coloured that way for a reason, and it has nothing to do with aesthetics. Do you have any idea how difficult it would be to wire a PSU if all the wires were the same colour?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top