SecretStash
Gawd
- Joined
- May 27, 2017
- Messages
- 684
There's a few times in my life where I would have been desperate enough to line up.
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No.Dude. Saw your name. Saw China. You the same guy with the awesome YT channel?!
God forbid the employee do something responsible, like open and contribute to an IRA
No.
If I had to guess, you're thinking of Laowhy aka C-Milk.
I am certainly not him nor am I a fan of his in any way. Few foreigners in China are.
FYI: Laowai (老外) means 'foreigner' in Chinese.
Arguable. Believe me, this has been beaten to death as a topic for expats in China and it is all about context.It's also a somewhat derogatory term for foreigners.
In few cities could rent not be paid at that rate. Extremely few. Furthermore, perhaps alternative living arangements would be advised if funds are tight. Most of the people I know shared accommodations with others to keep costs down at some point in their lives. Many people I know live outside of expensive areas and commute to work..and of those, many are quite a distance away from earning minimum wage.Even at $15 an hour, full time ( though no one can ever get that many hours in fast food) that is $2,600 before taxes.
That's barely rent money in many cities.
It sure as hell is notxebough money to voluntarily save. Rent, food and other immediate necessities will always come before long term saving.
What I find laughable is that many here just assume that a minimum wage job must be a fast food job. That is far from the case many warehouse, manufacturing, and shipping jobs etc. are minimum wage as well. Are these workers somehow better than the fast food workers?
In few cities could rent not be paid at that rate. Extremely few. Furthermore, perhaps alternative living arangements would be advised if funds are tight. Most of the people I know shared accommodations with others to keep costs down at some point in their lives. Many people I know live outside of expensive areas and commute to work..and of those, many are quite a distance away from earning minimum wage.
While the real minimum wage is $0, we are talking about jobs with generally low/no skill or education requirements. These are not often the kind of jobs that help you financially prepare for retirement.
Well yeah, but that assumed you have no other expenses.
Subtract taxes (35%?), Food (~$20 a day for a very thrifty family?) clothing budget (can't go to work naked), transportation (have to get to work somehow) health insurance (that shit is very pricy) and then there is somehow supposed to be some left over for savings or investment?
All I was trying to say was that the savings and investment comment was more than just a little bit out of touch with the realities of working people. There are many people working 3 or more jobs to exhaustion just to make ends meet, and still unable to afford to save for the future.
Many will argue that unskilled labor is not intended to be a career. It is something a little extra part time cash or students to do. The truth is - however - if only moonlighting stay at home moms and students worked minimum wage jobs, the country would grind to a halt.
We need people in these very basic jobs, and if we need them we should be willing to pay them enough that they don't have to worry where their next meal is going to come from.
'I worded some of that poorly - didn't mean to disparage anyone working. I only meant that the people in question probably won't have a say in the matter once they get to retirement age. If your employment situation leaves you unable to save any money, then you will be probably end up as a "burden" through no fault of your own once you reach retirement / no longer able to work age.
Where are you getting this from? About 5% of the workforce works multiple jobs and of that 5% I'd expect a much lower percent works 3 jobs. The percentage has been on the decline since the mid-90's. I am not convinced your opinions are grounded in facts but if you have facts, kindly link them.There are many people working 3 or more jobs to exhaustion just to make ends meet, and still unable to afford to save for the future.
Many will argue that unskilled labor is not intended to be a career. It is something a little extra part time cash or students to do. The truth is - however - if only moonlighting stay at home moms and students worked minimum wage jobs, the country would grind to a halt.
We need people in these very basic jobs, and if we need them we should be willing to pay them enough that they don't have to worry where their next meal is going to come from.
Where are you getting this from? About 5% of the workforce works multiple jobs and of that 5% I'd expect a much lower percent works 3 jobs. The percentage has been on the decline since the mid-90's. I am not convinced your opinions are grounded in facts but if you have facts, kindly link them.
As to the living expenses....I get it! Some cities (or parts of cities) are insanely expensive. If you're poor, you shouldn't live there.
You seem to be missing the obvious.I do think have any exact figures, just anecdotal experiences (which is why I didn't claim any figures, just said "a lot of people".
Let's run with your 5% figure for a moment though. The U.S. labor force is about 160 million people. 5% of that is 8 million. I'd say 8 million people (and their dependents) constitutes a lot of people, wouldn't you?
Expensive cities need fast food workers, short cooks, dog walkers and retail clerks too.
In fact, because expensive cities tend to be larger, they typically need MORE of them than other places.
So many of the things we take for granted in cities depend on unskilled labor, and if we are unwilling to pay them, they won't be able to do the jobs we are asking of them.
So what is wrong with paying them more, so they can afford to live where they work?
Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the federal minimum wage or less. Among employed teenagers (ages 16 to 19) paid by the hour, about 8 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 1 percent of workers age 25 and older.
Lowest you can be paid is zero.Is minimum wage really what people should actually be paid? I though minimum wage was the absolute lowest you were legally allowed to pay someone and not a suggested wage employers should or paying out. You get what you pay for ... just sayin’
Well yeah, but that assumed you have no other expenses.
Subtract taxes (35%?), Food (~$20 a day for a very thrifty family?) clothing budget (can't go to work naked), transportation (have to get to work somehow) health insurance (that shit is very pricy) and then there is somehow supposed to be some left over for savings or investment?
All I was trying to say was that the savings and investment comment was more than just a little bit out of touch with the realities of working people. There are many people working 3 or more jobs to exhaustion just to make ends meet, and still unable to afford to save for the future.
Many will argue that unskilled labor is not intended to be a career. It is something a little extra part time cash or students to do. The truth is - however - if only moonlighting stay at home moms and students worked minimum wage jobs, the country would grind to a halt.
We need people in these very basic jobs, and if we need them we should be willing to pay them enough that they don't have to worry where their next meal is going to come from.
Sorry to be cold, but we (the rest of society) should not be paying for people's poor life decisions (having children at an early age). Raped and having kids is a different story, but irresponsibly having kids should not be rewarded in any way. The minimum wage is not meant for raising a family on, it's for a single person with no dependents to live frugally while making their way up.
The minimum wage is not meant for raising a family on, it's for a single person with no dependents to live frugally while making their way up.
Your McDonalds burger might go up by a very slight amount when dining in high cost locations, but no one is talking about taxing in order to pay people extra.
It's a moot point though. In most high cost areas this is already happening on its own. They can't find people to work in their establishments unless they start paying more and more, because people earning that little simply can not afford to live near where they work, or to drive there.
Students and part time stay at home moms will continue to be taken advantage of for below market rates, but there just aren't enough of them to meet the needs.
I always LOL to myself when I hear some poor small business person complain about a labor shortage or how they can't find enough people to staff their kitchen. Pay more and they will come. That's how supply and demand works. Same for farmers. Don't rely on importing cheap slave labor from Mexico. Pay enough to make it worth it for Americans to do the job, or don't do it. It's that simple.
Is that a rule you just made up or is it written in law somewhere? I do not recall ever seeing it so maybe you could provide a link?
It's common sense.Is that a rule you just made up or is it written in law somewhere? I do not recall ever seeing it so maybe you could provide a link?
And facts support it. As I linked and quoted earlier.....It's common sense.
Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the federal minimum wage or less. Among employed teenagers (ages 16 to 19) paid by the hour, about 8 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 1 percent of workers age 25 and older.
Better wording would have been "should not be meant" rather than "is not meant." In any case, I hold very little sympathy for anyone trying to raise a family on minimum wage. Furthermore, raising the minimum wage by law will do nothing to actually help those people.
Furthermore, raising the minimum wage by law will do nothing to actually help those people.
That is as it should be. No need for gov't intervention.It's a moot point though. In most high cost areas this is already happening on its own. They can't find people to work in their establishments unless they start paying more and more, because people earning that little simply can not afford to live near where they work, or to drive there.
Taken advantage of? Yes. I keep hearing about all those employers who force random students and part-time stay at home moms(whatever the fuck that means) to accept jobs or else.Students and part time stay at home moms will continue to be taken advantage of for below market rates, but there just aren't enough of them to meet the needs.
Why do you think all employers have an infinite pool of money to spend? I always LOL to myself when I see people making absurd statements. Better the business fail because activists and idiots think that raising the minimum wage is some kind of panacea. While I agree that in many cases, employers can pay more if there is a labor shortage, some cannot. Small businesses would be especially sensitive imo.I always LOL to myself when I hear some poor small business person complain about a labor shortage or how they can't find enough people to staff their kitchen. Pay more and they will come. That's how supply and demand works. Same for farmers. Don't rely on importing cheap slave labor from Mexico. Pay enough to make it worth it for Americans to do the job, or don't do it. It's that simple.
Cool, I love anecdotal evidence. Here's some more!The greatest trick the devil ever played was to convince working people that more money in their pockets would not help them. An assumption so absurd it is laughable.
The fact is the raising the minimum wage has helped people in a big way. I know I live in Seattle where the minimum wage is $15 and have seen how it has benefited people here and has ZERO negative effect on the economy. Wages as a whole have gone up and grocery stores are now paying people $16-20 an hour here. The local burger place starts new employees at $18 an hour and offers medical and college financial aid. It works and Seattle is proof of it.
I won't bother replying to or quoting any of your opinions on social issues in the future since you've proven yourself time and time again to be an idealogue with a complete allergy to facts.
What are you going on about?Whatever man. You are free to keep believing that you are where you are because of your own greatness and only your own greatness, and everyone who doesn't make a good safe income is somehow lazy or unmotivated. You'd be wrong, and it kind of makes you a terrible person, but you are free to believe it.
The greatest trick the devil ever played was to convince working people that more money in their pockets would not help them. An assumption so absurd it is laughable.
The fact is the raising the minimum wage has helped people in a big way. I know I live in Seattle where the minimum wage is $15 and have seen how it has benefited people here and has ZERO negative effect on the economy. Wages as a whole have gone up and grocery stores are now paying people $16-20 an hour here. The local burger place starts new employees at $18 an hour and offers medical and college financial aid. It works and Seattle is proof of it.
The biggest reason SF has such high rents is because SF wants to have high rents.And that's why places like Seattle and San Francisco have $2500+ a month rent for a single bedroom apartment. While places like Phoenix with a $8? 10? minimum wage have single bedroom apartment rent down at $800. Tell me, what would go farther, $10 an hour with a $800 rent or $15 an hour with $2500+ rent?
The only reason you see burger places doing that in Seattle is because they are unable to find enough workers at just minimum wage with little/no benefits. I guarantee you that if they can find enough workers to fulfill that need at that wage, they will. Everyone that only has skill levels fitting minimum wage has fled the city or decided to live off government/parental support while going through education.
The biggest reason SF has such high rents is because SF wants to have high rents.
Developers are routinely prevented from building more housing and that includes affordable housing.
The city whose heart bleeds for any left-wing lunacy imaginable does little to nothing to help alleviate any social problems within its direct control.