Americans Are Lining Up to Work for Amazon for $15 an Hour

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Feb 2, 2019.

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  1. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Imagine that. Supply and Demand works.

    Pay more and they will come. I guess hundreds of years of economics weren't wrong after all.

    That's why I always roll my eyes when businesses say there is a worker shortage, or a shortage of people with the right skills.

    No. There is no such thing as a worker shortage. If you can't find the right people, it's because you aren't paying enough.

    If you offer it, they will come. Once incomes get high enough, people will make career choices, change fields, get the right training, and the market will re-balance. No such thing as a worker shortage.
     
  2. Staples

    Staples [H]ardness Supreme

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    This forum has really made me hate the word "unskilled labor."
    Farming and other food prep work pays so poorly that only illegals are willing to do them. Is it unskilled? Maybe in your definition but it is dangerous and supply and demand says it needs to pay well to attract a labor force. I am all about paying for what the labor demands.
    In states where minimum wage is 7.25, these "unskilled" jobs pay more than many "skilled" jobs.
     
  3. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    The fryers where the most dangerous items to deal with. We had 2 fryers that each held 2 baskets of fries, fish, onion rings, etc. This was usually my job for the 2 years I worked there.
    At the end if the day, the oil had to be cleaned. This involved picking lifting the oil container out of the counter and pouring the oil through a strainer into a new container while it was still hot enough to pour. Even worse, if the oil was getting old, you had to carry it outside and dump it into a drum by the trash cans (even worse if it was raining).

    I remember one time, one of the guys went to pour it, and the slipped and poured the hot oil all over their leg/foot. I wasn't there when it happened, and he wasn't hurt too bad, but I don't remember him ever coming back to work.
     
  4. nutzo

    nutzo [H]ardness Supreme

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    +100

    It's amazing how many people don't understand basic economics.
     
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  5. GlowingGhoul

    GlowingGhoul Whines about Whiners

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    You have it backwards. Those jobs pay as little as they do because plenty of illegals(ie, the "supply") are willing to do it for those wages, and not just in agriculture.

    Remove illegals from the labor pool and wages will have to rise to a level where legal workers would do it. More likely though, automation would become the cheaper alternative than $20/hour strawberry pickers, and for jobs that can't be automated, well...I don't really care if someone has to pay more for their domestic servants. Boo hoo. It's the legal workers at the bottom of the economic ladder getting screwed by illegals pushing wages downwards.
     
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  6. NeoNemesis

    NeoNemesis 2[H]4U

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    I was pretty much just night shift cleaning. The worst experience I had was one time someone cut a tiny hole in one of the gloves and when I reached into the fryer I got a pretty nasty burn before I could yank my hand out again.

    Luckily, I didn't have to dump the old oil in a drum, we had a grease trap out back built right into the floor and I just dumped it into that. The area was covered so no rain.

    The job itself wasn't that bad mostly because I worked alone and could clean the whole place in less than half my eight hour shift.
     
  7. Skull_Angel

    Skull_Angel [H]ard|Gawd

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    Better option, start a career at a trade skill. Start out at higher wages after benefits, get free training that can be useful outside of work, get nearly double your starting pay after your apprenticeship ends. Sure, the work might still be tough, but you're getting better treatment/pay and you're not dieing in a factory with poor working conditions.
     
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  8. Skylinestar

    Skylinestar Limp Gawd

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    Meanwhile McD workers in Asia barely earn $1.50 an hour.
     
  9. NWRMidnight

    NWRMidnight Limp Gawd

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    You obviously haven't ever worked in fast food. It is not easy work. Some of it is hard physically, and some of it is hard mentally. (dealing with the public is a bitch!)
     
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  10. NWRMidnight

    NWRMidnight Limp Gawd

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    False! It has nothing to do with who is in office, and it has not changed. It is defined by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. https://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm#unemployed
     
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  11. dkapke

    dkapke n00b

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    The hell?!? Did you never clean the grease trap on Sunday mornings?
     
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  12. HAL_404

    HAL_404 Limp Gawd

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    McDonalds may pay $15 an hour (as does Walmart) but I've yet to meet someone who works there that is full time. American Companies used to take care of their workers but since about the mid 80's they do all they can to under pay them, no pension, etc. Many companies still do not pay a living wage and when those workers retire they will need to be funded by the State or Feds
     
  13. Dekoth-E-

    Dekoth-E- [H]ardness Supreme

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    I have, it's easy. Holy shit some of you are sheltered if you think McDonald's is hard. The real work world is going to be an eye opening experience for some of you.
     
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  14. alxlwson

    alxlwson You Know Where I Live

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    God forbid the employee do something responsible, like open and contribute to an IRA
     
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  15. SvenBent

    SvenBent 2[H]4U

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    i will deny your reality and evidence because its does not fit my sports... political team's agenda
     
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  16. SamuelL421

    SamuelL421 Limp Gawd

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    Those people are often working for 20-30 hours a week so that benefits do not have to be provided. $15/hour is a lot of money to be spending on someone working in fast food imo... It would be great if you’re a teenager, but awful if you are an adult who has to pay housing and buy your own insurance. It is highly unlikely someone in that situation could contribute a meaningful amount to retirement, if anything.

    I’m not apologizing for any adult in this situation. Being stuck in one or more part time jobs is your own fault. These people will just have to work until they are very old or no longer able to. At that point what happens? Even if social security is still around in the future, it will probably be less (comparatively) than it is today. The people mentioned before will be trying to survive on the scraps of SS and/or burdening health care with no ability to pay for that ER visit and/or becoming homeless.

    TL,DR; part-time $15/hour work will not lead to everyone retiring fat and happy. These people will be burden to society in one way or another when they are no longer able to earn that $15.
    At least full-time work would all for the possibility of saving.
     
  17. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I always find it interesting when people working at paying jobs are referred to as a "burden to society."
     
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  18. Retronym

    Retronym Something big is coming.

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    If too many people are applying then they are paying too much.
     
  19. SamuelL421

    SamuelL421 Limp Gawd

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    I worded some of that poorly - didn't mean to disparage anyone working. I only meant that the people in question probably won't have a say in the matter once they get to retirement age. If your employment situation leaves you unable to save any money, then you will be probably end up as a "burden" through no fault of your own once you reach retirement / no longer able to work age.
     
  20. Poseur

    Poseur Limp Gawd

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    Huh. I thought this was a very good thing, when I read about it. The minimum wage around here is more than $10/hour though. In other areas, that's a massive raise for the same work.
     
  21. filip

    filip [H]ard|Gawd

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    The cost of living has gone up but minimum wage has not matched the cost. $15 a hour is way better than $8.75 for the cost of living. But minimum wage is not a problem I see, what I see is that wages for graduates (middle class) has also stagnated. Where is that wage raise, on the second biggest cash cow?
     
  22. nightanole

    nightanole [H]ard|Gawd

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    Back in the day, you had to go to school (ill bet a small duration) to become a certified "cook". Just like you had to go to barber school etc. Once they got the process down to brain dead, you didnt have to be a "cook" to work around the hot stuff that might kill people if prepared incorrectly.
     
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  23. NWRMidnight

    NWRMidnight Limp Gawd

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    Buddy, You must have just had counter duty at McDonald's... Just so you know, I have worked in the construction/plumbing industry (digging ditches 8 hours a day, shovel only to setting and installing fixtures), Warehouse work, production from small electronics to 8+ tons of metal material, Fast food to Full service restaurants (Every position including management/GM), Beer Industry (man handling 175lb kegs all day long), Farming (bailing hay, feeding cattle, etc).. just to name a few of the non technique jobs I have held outside the computer industry, I could give you my full 40 year resume, all though I have been working a paying job since I was 8 years old. So.. about the Sheltered BS you are spinning..


    Fast Food tops the list for one of the most exhausting draining professions out of all of them. You are the one who has lived a sheltered life, and/or has never had to actually put in a hard days work.. aka you must have been babied while you worked at McDonald's or any other Fast food establishment, otherwise you wouldn't have such an opinion. You almost come across as one of the millennial's who think they should be allowed to stand and do nothing, yet still earn a paycheck.... Maybe that is why you are so quick to tell people they lived sheltered lives.

    Or, maybe In today's age, McDonald's does baby it's staff and you don't know how real fast food work was back when people where expected to actually work rather than stand around and hold up the counter...
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
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  24. Dekoth-E-

    Dekoth-E- [H]ardness Supreme

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    Lol. so many utterly stupid assumptions. Sorry but fast food isn't hard on any level. Your entire argument is contradictory and laughable.
     
  25. NWRMidnight

    NWRMidnight Limp Gawd

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    Stupid assumptions? Contradictions? Laughable? Sorry that my years of experience in various fields contradicts your opinion. The laughable part is you some how believe you opinion out weighs that.

    The thing is that each person's idea of hard work varies from person to person. It also has a lot to do with work ethics and integrity. Any job can be easy if you don't apply yourself and give it your all which takes integrity to do. I was raised to give 110% in everything i do. Most people only give 100% in a small percentage of what they do, and just do enough to get by in everything else.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
  26. Tsumi

    Tsumi [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Which tells me you have little sense of worklife balance. Yes, it is good to put in effort... when it will give you tangible benefits.
     
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  27. 5150Joker

    5150Joker 2[H]4U

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    But service economy is the future!
     
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  28. Laowai

    Laowai Gawd

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    The thing is, you never really know what will have tangible benefits in the future. Only looking at or considering what you have in your hands at the moment, is the definition of short-sighted and rarely leads to being successful in anything. People can change their jobs but only rarely do they change their attitude or work ethic.
    I've seen countless young people, as well as people old enough to know better, say things like "If my job paid more, I'd work harder." or "If my employer did X I would do Y"
    It's nearly always bullshit used to justify their laziness/ineptitude/dissatisfaction.

    Few successful people have a healthy work/life balance. Being successful in pretty much any endeavor requires time and effort. Often, an inordinate amount of both. For obvious reasons, that generally throws the work/life balance out of whack.
    We all make our own choices for our own reasons.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
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  29. Tsumi

    Tsumi [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I did not mean tangible benefits in the strict sense that you earn more money, but also in the sense that you know, or have good reason to believe, that your boss is aware of your effort and will ultimately reward you for it.

    I had a boss that was aware of my talent and skill. I worked hard and tried to keep busy, doing my best for the company. She left and I got a new boss. The new boss (and her boss) was clearly not appreciative of the extra work I did, so I did the bare minimum while searching for a new job. However, even when I did my best, I did not do it to the detriment of my mental or physical health.
     
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  30. yobbo7

    yobbo7 n00b

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    McDonalds is “hard” work compared to a lot of office jobs. Hard does not make it valuable. It pays nothing because anyone without a severe mental disability and four limbs can probably do it.
     
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  31. Dr. Righteous

    Dr. Righteous 2[H]4U

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    Amazon has a fulfillment center just north of Chattanooga TN and people have been lining up for jobs there. This is because there was little to NO local job in these small burgs since NAFTA killed the textile and clothing manufactures. Even in the very small town I live in (far from large cities); before NAFTA where were several small textile related manufacturers here that employed most of the town. Before anyone sneezes at mill work there is a required skill set that many rural country folk (especially women) have without formal training. That is sewing. That is a skill that was passed down from mother to daughter. They take that skill right into a factory setting and produce shirts and pants for descent wages. Men found employment in maintenance since maintaining the machinery is easily mastered by anyone that is use to dealing with tractors and farm equipment. NAFTA gutted the country of this staple of employment. The jobs that replaced them are vendors for foreign made goods that skilled workers would have been making themselves. No skilled required so you are not very valuable to the company. The end effect is you are disposable instead of valuable.
     
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  32. Dekoth-E-

    Dekoth-E- [H]ardness Supreme

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    Ok since you want to continue with the thinly veiled insults I'll respond and make this as clear as I possibly can. I grew up very similar to what you claim. My father was a contractor and I spent my youth building houses, doing roofing jobs, crawling in crawl spaces and generally dealing with all the nasty things that come with renovation and disaster repair. I further served in the military so I've spent more than my fair share of time crawling in the mud and living in survival conditions and as life has good times and bad times I've worked a plethora of jobs over the years to make ends meet including Fast food, retail, Call centers and plenty of cushy IT jobs. I also had it hammered into me my entire life that you do the job right the First time and it doesn't matter if everyone else is just coasting, you aren't there to match them you are there to set the example, so kindly take your "You must be a slacker" inference and cram it. Also based on your work experience claims, we are pretty damn close to the same generation if not the same generation. So you can take your not so subtle attempts at lumping me into the millennial stereotype and cram it up your hypocritical ass as that generalization doesn't even fit the narrative of what I'm saying, but what you are claiming instead. I'm sorry but no Retail and fast food are not hard jobs. Are you tired at the end of the day? Sure, it is work after all. Is standing on your feet all day tiring? yes, but that doesn't make it hard. Does someone saying mean things suck? yes but that doesn't make it hard. The job is brain dead easy and that is evidenced by the fact that teenagers, disabled and mentally handicapped people can work these positions with little to no accommodations. The job isn't hard and nothing you say changes that fact. It is neither physically nor mentally demanding. It is a job that requires an absolute minimum effort to perform and is paid accordingly.
     
  33. Lizard Testes

    Lizard Testes Gawd

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    What "skilled career work" would you be willing to do for 31 grand a year and shit benefits?
     
  34. YeuEmMaiMai

    YeuEmMaiMai [H]ardForum Junkie

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    did that for significantly less and I made ends meet...
     
  35. katanaD

    katanaD [H]ard|Gawd

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    Those asian sexbots are evolving rapidly (y)
     
  36. DocNo

    DocNo Gawd

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    lol - work life balance. Never a more loaded phrase...
     
  37. Teenk9

    Teenk9 Gawd

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    Sent my self through college working at Burger King, Godfather's Pizza, and QFC (local Seattle grocery chain).
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
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  38. alxlwson

    alxlwson You Know Where I Live

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    Dude. Saw your name. Saw China. You the same guy with the awesome YT channel?!
     
  39. NWRMidnight

    NWRMidnight Limp Gawd

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    What.. My work/life balance? I work 6 months out of the year and make a very good living. I think I have the work/life balanced worked out almost perfect, short of retiring in about 20+ years. But why wait till I retire to enjoy life/family? Can you say the same? Hard work, putting in 110% effort has zero to do with work/life balance.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  40. NWRMidnight

    NWRMidnight Limp Gawd

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    Continue with the veiled insulsts? If you read your responses, you are the one who started off by insulting people calling them sheltered etc from the get go, and my response was just in light of that. But if you took any of it personal, that is a personal problem that only you can correct, because it shows I hit a nerve to close to the truth. As for the millennial points, it fits in more ways than I can demonstrate, but you have demonstrated it very well purely by your attitude.

    There are people who enjoy manual labor, to some it is not hard work at all. To some, dealing with the public, or standing on your feet in basically one place (over a grill, etc) is harder on your body/mind than any manual labor, technical job out there. I already told you that everyone has a different view on what constitutes hard work, and what doesn't. To me, I would rather dig ditches/manual labor all day, then work in fast food, so fast food tops the list of which is harder in my book, that doesn't mean I have lived a sheltered life, nor does it mean anyone else has either. As for it being a brain dead job, that is all relative to how much you care and how much effort you put into the job. For those that care and put in the effort, there are lessons to be learned that can excel you forward in any career, which takes more than just a brain dead person filling the position. As for being mentally challenging.. your statement clearly shows you have little or no experience in retail/fast food dealing with customers on a daily basis because anyone who has any real experience doing so, will tell you it is one of the most mentally challenging and mentally draining things you can do.. unless you don't care about customer satisfaction , have no concern for customer relations, or you are disconnected with your emotions. If that is the case, than you where just a body filling a void.

    As for your Father's experience, it means nothing, because you don't know anything about it, unless you experience it yourself. The very fact that you are trying to use your father's experience, rather than you own implies you don't have enough of your own to back up your claims, which makes it hard to believe that we are even close to the same age or generation because people from my generation don't need to use our father's experience to argue a point. As for you military background: thanks for serving our country, as Did I back in the late 80's and early 90's. But our military experience serves no point in this conversation.

    At the end of the day, the only way I could have insulted you, is if what I said defines you and you connected the dots in that manner. Your anger and the very fact that you have taken it all as a personal insults tell us more about you than anything anyone can say.

    Good Day Sir!
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
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