AMD's Ryzen Will Really Like a Newer Linux Kernel

Zarathustra[H]

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I know with the upcoming Ryzen launch, a lot of you have been pre-ordering your CPU's. Here's a little bit of a heads up for those of you who like your alternative flavors of operating systems. One of the weak spots with Linux has always been its support for brand new hardware, and Ryzen appears to be no different.

Phoronix is reporting that for a working SMT topology with Ryzen, you'll likely need a fix included in the 4.10 Kernel, or at least a 4.9.10 kernel with the fix backported into it. As it stands, of the Linux distributions I follow, none of them have as of yet provided anything official newer than the 4.8 Kernel. Not that this is a major problem or anything. Installing a newer kernel outside of the standard repositories is fairly straight forward these days, but it will mess a little bit with the "it just works out of the box" experience many Linux fans have become used to in later years.

"Without that fix, you could be affected by broken SMT scheduling topology. Simultaneous Multi-Threading is one of the new features for AMD Ryzen/Zen and will play a big role. For instance, with the Ryzen 7 CPUs they are 8 cores but 16 threads via SMT. If you care about multi-threaded performance, just make sure you are riding a newer kernel release."
 
just a head's up - when you said "of the Linux distributions I follow, none of them have as of yet provided anything official newer than the 4.8 Kernel" - vanilla Fedora 25 is up to kernel version 4.9.11. get to following! ;)
 
This happens when Intel releases a new processor too. You have to wait a few months for the backports to make it your distro. It will work, but it won't be optimal. You can always backport it yourself.
 
just a head's up - when you said "of the Linux distributions I follow, none of them have as of yet provided anything official newer than the 4.8 Kernel" - vanilla Fedora 25 is up to kernel version 4.9.11. get to following! ;)

I did not realize Fedora had newer kernels. That's pretty nice.

I can't live without my aptitude package manager though, so no Fedora for me.
 
This happens when Intel releases a new processor too. You have to wait a few months for the backports to make it your distro. It will work, but it won't be optimal. You can always backport it yourself.

Sounds much easier to just add the vanilla kernel ppa, and install a newer vanilla kernel, than try to patch code into an older kernel yourself and then compile! :p I haven't had to do that shit in over a decade.
 
I did not realize Fedora had newer kernels. That's pretty nice.

I can't live without my aptitude package manager though, so no Fedora for me.

Sounds much easier to just add the vanilla kernel ppa, and install a newer vanilla kernel, than try to patch code into an older kernel yourself and then compile! :p I haven't had to do that shit in over a decade.

Gone are the days of compiling everything.
Aptitude is soooo awesome, try a 70K company and doing dependencies for applications and alike, good luck!
Aptitude just fixes everything, sometimes.. wait.. often I wish Ubuntu was a common operating system in corporations for office and the likes cause despite spending 99% of my life in Windows and a heavy powershell user I cannot seem to feel "This would a been soo easy in Linux...."

not that it doesn't have drawbacks :)
Thanks for the heads up, will install the new kernel for my upcoming 1700
 
This is the kind of thing that will be supported asap in Linux. Sometimes a brand new gfx card arch takes too long for Linux support. =/
 
Arch Linux also supports Kernel 4.9.11-1-ARCH if you're using the rolling release option that is.
 
BUT OTHER THEN THIS, Linux is totally ready for prime time with normal consumers.....amirite???
 
I about LOL'd in my pants reading this: "it just works out of the box"

I have only really found 1 Linux distro out of about 10 that just work out of the box. Thank you openSuse.

Running a UEFI BIOS? Good luck getting that to work.

Run a modern nVidia video card? Nouveau will hate you. Hate you hard.
 
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BUT OTHER THEN THIS, Linux is totally ready for prime time with normal consumers.....amirite???

Well Ryzen is only supported in Windows 10. If you don't have it you have to buy it. If you are a Linux user you can just upgrade the kernel. Windows 7 didn't support optimized core scheduling for Bulldozer in the release, if ever. I know it was in Windows 8. Yeah, I'll take upgraded my the kernel over paying money or doing nothing as a user.
 
Well Ryzen is only supported in Windows 10.

So the propaganda goes. I wouldn't be surprised if Windows 7 or at least 8.1 drivers release soon after launch, since they already exist internally.

AMD isn't in a position to discriminate and limit themselves to only 25% of the windows platform. They're in the business of selling chips, not operating systems.
 

Old article that's making assumptions based on press statements.

BOOM, Windows 7 and 8.1 drivers - including chipset drivers - for Gigabyte's flagship AX370 board : http://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AX370-GAMING-5-rev-10#support-dl

Looks like AMD's partners still have their senses, and are ignoring Microsoft wanting everyone to pretend Ryzen will only work on Windows 10.
 
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(note its CPU driver that's important, wt that chipset driver is 1.3GB !!!) i dont seem to see any AMD CPU driver in it thought (was only a quick look)

if AMD is doing it correctly the 8 core 16 SMT threads should be correctly detected as 8 cores + 8 SMT threads on windows 7 and higher (guess we find out after march)

you be able to tell visually in task manager with each thread shown independently windows should skip each thread to make sure work is on real core unless it thinks it beneficiation to use the SMT thread, windows 8 should state it in task manager (8 cores 16 logical threads if it detects the CPU correctly again it depends if AMD has done it the right way)

if you play a game like city skyline as it will only use real cores so 50% CPU on the process (assuming city skyline uses more than 4 cores/threads) this game should have a marked improvement if it can use 8 threads allowing larger cities before the game grinds to a halt

#
if all els fails i am guessing the UEFI bios will let you disable SMT like you could with the bulldozer modular based cpus and intel CPUs with HT (1 core per module so 1M/1C instead of 1M/2C, or in RYZEN or i7 case 1C instead of 1C/2T) that would make sure all applications stay on real cores and make it none issue on linux based systems that don't have the new Linux kernel yet
 
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Old article that's making assumptions based on press statements.

BOOM, Windows 7 and 8.1 drivers - including chipset drivers - for Gigabyte's flagship AX370 board : http://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AX370-GAMING-5-rev-10#support-dl

Looks like AMD's partners still have their senses, and are ignoring Microsoft wanting everyone to pretend Ryzen will only work on Windows 10.

The article is 20 days ago and the statement was made by AMD. Chipset drivers are not the same thing as supporting CPU powerstates and core scheduling optimizations.
 
Chipset drivers are not the same thing as supporting CPU powerstates and core scheduling optimizations.

Didn't say it was. Fortunately the practical difference between Windows 8.1 and 10 in those aspects is going to be nonexistent, since the improved scheduler of 8.0/8.1 was pushed forward to 10, as 10 is effectively just Windows 8.2.

Anyway, the takeaway here is that the "Ryzen only works on 10" line is just MS marketing/PR nonsense.
 
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Didn't say it was. Fortunately the practical difference between Windows 8.1 and 10 in those aspects is going to be nonexistent, since the improved scheduler of 8.0/8.1 was just punted forward to 10, as 10 is effectively just Windows 8.2.

You've conflated Microsoft's statement of them not unpdating Win7 to support new cpu instructions with a generic chipset driver. If you didn't imply it, then you either misunderstood or misspoke.
 
You've conflated Microsoft's statement of them not unpdating Win7 to support new cpu instructions with a generic chipset driver. If you didn't imply it, then you either misunderstood or misspoke.

Not misunderstood or misspoken, nor did I mean to imply that a chipset driver would magically backport new cpu instructions to Windows 7.

But minutiae aside (we're splitting hairs when there aren't even programs to take advantage of those new CPU instructions), the takeaway here is that the "Ryzen only works with Windows 10" and "there will be no Ryzen drivers for Windows 7" headlines that made the rounds a few weeks ago turned out to be PR nonsense, as expected.

AMD had originally stated that Ryzen had been certified "across Windows 7 to 10", then MS got a hold of them and a week later they're saying "10 only".
 
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BUT OTHER THEN THIS, Linux is totally ready for prime time with normal consumers.....amirite???

Windows Update has been a broken mess for, what, a couple years now? My Linux boxes literally take a few seconds to a minute do updates. Kinda pathetic on Microsoft's part.

Ryzen will almost certainly work just fine out of the box in both 7 and Linux, Windows 10 is in bad shape and Microsoft has been spreading FUD to make 10 seem necessary
 
Windows Update has been a broken mess for, what, a couple years now? My Linux boxes literally take a few seconds to a minute do updates. Kinda pathetic on Microsoft's part.


Windows update has been about useless for a long time. Even back when i used XP i remember it being a turd. I have a good W7 SP1 iso that I use for installs and I don't even bother updating (I use a script blocker, ad blocker, and sensibly browsing habbits) and I'm not afraid to nuke my drive if something goes terribly wrong.

Linux updating (ubuntu deriviants in my experience) are a breeze. Two commands in the console and I'm usually done within minutes.
 
just a head's up - when you said "of the Linux distributions I follow, none of them have as of yet provided anything official newer than the 4.8 Kernel" - vanilla Fedora 25 is up to kernel version 4.9.11. get to following! ;)
Yep. 4.9.12 hit today. I'm on Fedora as well. Not worried.
 
So is this like Hyperthreading in nature?

iSjCddc.jpg
 
Didn't say it was. Fortunately the practical difference between Windows 8.1 and 10 in those aspects is going to be nonexistent, since the improved scheduler of 8.0/8.1 was pushed forward to 10, as 10 is effectively just Windows 8.2.

Anyway, the takeaway here is that the "Ryzen only works on 10" line is just MS marketing/PR nonsense.

Yes, Windows 7 and Windows 8 will work with Ryzen just as well as older Linux kernels. Therefore I can make a sarcastic comment too: Windows 7 and Windows 8 are really ready for primetime...AMIRITE.

Except that on Linux I have options, on Windows I have to upgrade and pay money.
 
just a head's up - when you said "of the Linux distributions I follow, none of them have as of yet provided anything official newer than the 4.8 Kernel" - vanilla Fedora 25 is up to kernel version 4.9.11. get to following! ;)

Get on my level ;)
Code:
$ cat /etc/fedora-release
Fedora release 25 (Twenty Five)
$ uname -or
4.9.12-200.fc25.x86_64 GNU/Linux
 
AMD had originally stated that Ryzen had been certified "across Windows 7 to 10", then MS got a hold of them and a week later they're saying "10 only".

I don't think it had anything to really do with Microsoft at all, they just took a stance like Intel has If an OEM wants to support it, that's on them but we are only supporting 10.
 
I don't like the sound of this. Multi threading is one of the big draws for me with Ryzen, and I really hope that various distros (I use Ubuntu 16.10) get around to releasing newer kernels damn quick. That said, I hope confirmation for this multithreading bug has been sought outside of Phoronix. I don't hold them in the absolute highest regard.

Also, I plan to use Windows 8 (not 8.1) for playing Witcher 3 and stuff. That is, if Win8 won't go mental for me replacing my cpu, mobo and ram. I'm betting it might.
 
The situation isn't as dire or complicated as it's made out to be, unless maybe you get a motherboard with an ALC1200 audio codec, in which case you are going to need drivers that are only in the un-released 4.11 kernel. About half of the AM4 motherboards seem to use this codec. Even in this scenario it's not difficult, but the idea of running a nightly kernel build is an uncomfortable one for many.

  • it will mess a little bit with the "it just works out of the box" experience many Linux fans have become used to in later years

If you get a motherboard with ALC892 everything should "just work" and Ubuntu 16.04.2 or 16.10 will boot without issue. The situation is even better than windows. With both systems you will need to install things to make the system "work better". In windows that means an assortment of drivers from various sources. In Linux that will mean just installing a couple packages to update the kernel.

In preparation for Ryzen I have been testing my FX-6300 system with the 4.10 kernel under Ubuntu 16.04. It has been flawless thus far. I only had to download 3 .deb files from http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.10.1/ and install them.

Maybe there will be other unforeseen issues once I have my Ryzen workstation built, but if the phoronix article is accurate about 4.10 working well it should be a relative breeze compared to windows.

If anyone is interested I'm happy to post something to HardOCP forums with the realities of building a linux workstation on Ryzen at launch.
 
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Get on my level ;)
Code:
$ cat /etc/fedora-release
Fedora release 25 (Twenty Five)
$ uname -or
4.9.12-200.fc25.x86_64 GNU/Linux


Well, it's a tradeoff in philosophy.

Immediately jump on the latest kernel, and you get better support for newer hardware.

You also automatically get any new regressions that haven't been patched yet.

This is hwy you'll often see enterprise and server users stay on older kernels, or even older releases, because they are stable.


Most of my servers are still on Ubuntu 14.04 Server Edition (with security fixes backported of course)
 
Well, it's a tradeoff in philosophy.

Of course, consumer vs enterprise. By the time Ryzen server hardware ships, this likely won't be an issue.

Early adopters have issues, especially when it's a brand new uarch - and not just a tick/tock.
 
a temporary solution if windows 7-8 does not detect the SMT in Ryzen is just disable SMT in the UEFI bios (unless AMD for some reason removed the option to disable SMT there) same goes for Linux kernel support if you don't have the correct kernel just disable SMT if your not sure (any one i guess who is using linux probably knows how to mess with command line any way)
 
Well, it's a tradeoff in philosophy.

Immediately jump on the latest kernel, and you get better support for newer hardware.

You also automatically get any new regressions that haven't been patched yet.

This is hwy you'll often see enterprise and server users stay on older kernels, or even older releases, because they are stable.


Most of my servers are still on Ubuntu 14.04 Server Edition (with security fixes backported of course)
Yeah I use Fedora for home. But I don't use it for servers. Stuff like VPN and samba etc I use Ubuntu LTS but for home Fedora all the way. I have yet to experience much in the way of problems which is why I prefer it for everyday desktop use.
 
Not misunderstood or misspoken, nor did I mean to imply that a chipset driver would magically backport new cpu instructions to Windows 7.

But minutiae aside (we're splitting hairs when there aren't even programs to take advantage of those new CPU instructions), the takeaway here is that the "Ryzen only works with Windows 10" and "there will be no Ryzen drivers for Windows 7" headlines that made the rounds a few weeks ago turned out to be PR nonsense, as expected.

AMD had originally stated that Ryzen had been certified "across Windows 7 to 10", then MS got a hold of them and a week later they're saying "10 only".

Yeah, I'm sure we did. That is clearly the only explanation.

/s

We (microsoft) put a ton of effort (read: money) into backwards-compat. Admittedly, we don't hit 100% of the time, and crappy things do make it out the door from time to time. That kind of stuff happens with thousands of people working on a project, but it still sucks for the end-users.

Still, I think there's a simpler explanation - most companies don't want to spend a ton of money to support operating systems that are approaching 7 years old. _Especially_ companies that are seeking to regain market share. I was a _HUGE_ AMD fanboy back in the day, and while I still want to see them do well, they're going to have to pull off a small win with Ryzen, especially after the craptastic Bulldozer release.
 
So much simpler, they want you shopping the app store in Win10, not using Win7 and buying programs that they don't get a slice of the price. That's why Win7 will never ever be updated.
 
So much simpler, they want you shopping the app store in Win10, not using Win7 and buying programs that they don't get a slice of the price. That's why Win7 will never ever be updated.

Mainstream support for Windows 7 ended over two years ago so that's why Windows 7 won't be updated for the latest and great CPUs.
 
So, from further reading it LOOKS as if Ryzen will boot and run with older kernels, it just won't have properly functioning SMT (hyperthreading). It isn't perfectly clear what will happen, if the kernel will see it as 16 physical cores, or something else, but it will be inefficient, but it should boot and work.

I was concerned about this because while it is fairly straight forward to add a PPA for vanilla kernels and install a newer kernel, if you are trying to install from an image that has a kernel that doesn't boot this can be difficult to resolve. I'm not even sure how one would go about injecting a newer kernel into a Linux install ISO.

Looks like that will not be necessary. Will older kernels will be inefficient as hell, they ought to boot and run well enough to get through the installer, and once installed a newer kernel can easily be installed to make it operate more efficiently.
 
It's too bad Microsoft doesn't have a proper successor to 7.

Depends on the situation. In a true enterprise environment 10 is a fine successor to 7, all of the back and forth over telemetry and updates don't apply in those environments. For the typical end consumer what gets discussed in these forums is well out of scope of typical PC use. If 10 were is a problematic as some around here would portray, well, it's kind of interesting to me how 10, not being a "real desktop" OS, works better with multiple and high DPI monitors than 7.
 
Depends on the situation. In a true enterprise environment 10 is a fine successor to 7, all of the back and forth over telemetry and updates don't apply in those environments. For the typical end consumer what gets discussed in these forums is well out of scope of typical PC use. If 10 were is a problematic as some around here would portray, well, it's kind of interesting to me how 10, not being a "real desktop" OS, works better with multiple and high DPI monitors than 7.

Trying to downplay valid and widespread criticisms of 10 as "portrayal" sounds a tad apologist.

By the way, multi-monitor DPI scaling isn't something unique or innovative to 10 -- the feature exists since Windows 8.
 
Trying to downplay valid and widespread criticisms of 10 as "portrayal" sounds a tad apologist.

Not trying to downplay OR hype it. We're moving to Windows 10 in our large enterprise environment and none of the regular issues that get discussed here apply there. That's not downplaying anything, it's that Windows 10 works like Windows 7 in this regard for us.

By the way, multi-monitor high DPI support isn't something unique or innovative to 10 -- the feature exists since Windows 8.

The situation has improved considerably with high DPI monitors in 10 over 8, especially with mixed DPI monitors. Plus there's better window arrangement and virtual desktops out of the box. And the task view is very nice especially with a precision track pad.
 
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