AMD Zen Performance Preview

Discussion in 'AMD Processors' started by HardOCP News, Aug 24, 2016.

  1. HardOCP News

    HardOCP News [H] News

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    Last week AMD held a private Zen performance preview for a handful of press outlets at the St. Regis Hotel in San Francisco. Well, today AMD has released the complete slide deck containing all the info the company shared at that meeting. So, without further ado, lets get into the slides, shall we?
     
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  2. hardboner

    hardboner Limp Gawd

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    does this mean AMD finally caught up to Sandy Bridge?
     
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  3. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

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    TAKE MY MONEY!

    After looking at those slides, I am really wanting to get a ZEN setup.

    Can't wait for actual reviews.
     
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  4. pcgeekesq

    pcgeekesq [H]ard|Gawd

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    Not much new, unfortunately.
     
  5. Poseur

    Poseur Limp Gawd

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    Can't wait to see what the actual chips do. Probably building another Intel system to replace an old Phenom X4, but feel free to surprise me, AMD.
     
  6. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I've been saying for years that the cache setup was a big problem for AMD CPUs. Looks like they have probably fixed that and more.

    I would guess that ZEN is going to be faster than Sandy.

    I want a full review ASAP to see what ZEN can actually do.

    They are claiming a 40% IPC increase over Excavator, not Bulldozer.

    From the slides, it looks like a really sweet setup.
     
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  7. Spirit_Retro

    Spirit_Retro Limp Gawd

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    Wait and see. I really want to see what the final clocks are and how it holds up in testing.

    Right now... I'm skeptical.
     
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  8. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    The whole AMD marketing we saw regurgitated by "journalists" all last week was with the Intel processor downclocked to a matching 3GHz. AMD getting their shit together in the IPC department is a great thing, but if they are lacking when it comes to scaling the clock, I am not sure how it ends up being a win. I was a huge Bulldozer advocate, right up to the moment that the AMD PR rep sat me down on a bench and told me that my expectations were way too high from everything that I had been told by AMD in the previous year. Fool me once...
     
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  9. quitessa

    quitessa n00b

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    I know exactly what you guys mean, I used to be an AMD man with the K6-2 > Athlon > Athlon XP > Athlon 64X2 but then performance compared to Intel dumped with the advent of C2D so I got a Quad Xeon X3210 2.13 and ran it @ 3.2 until it wasn't enough, now I'm running Hex X5650 2.66 @ 4.0 and while it's getting on for 6 years old it produces performance not far behind the latest Intel-Extreme chips so no need to upgrade. I really hope that AMD's got it's act back together again to start pushing Intel to improve again and stop with the lacklustre minor clock bumps and 2-3% ipc improvements.
     
  10. MV75

    MV75 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yep, was an amd man too from about 1999 onwards with duron/Athlon/a64. Was real innovating times. 955be was my last amd chip in 2009, I upgraded last year to my current xeon 1231v3 and am now not looking back. I guess that zen will finally catchup where intel were 2 gens ago. lol.
     
  11. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

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    That wouldn't be so bad since there have been minimal gains in the last two.
     
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  12. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    So you already knew all the details around the cache and other optimizations pretty bold statement for someone that claimed to have worked for Intel AMD Further Unveils Zen Processor Details

    Are you sure there was nothing new to you ?
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2016
  13. marzzez

    marzzez Limp Gawd

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    Wonder what connectivity they are going to have and/or how refined the chip set will be? Would be nice if they come across
     
  14. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    from The “Zen” Core Architecture

     
  15. marzzez

    marzzez Limp Gawd

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    Thank you but their statement is a bit vague. Will it boot from mr2, oh yes pcie lane’s but what version and how many? Prob to early for the questions I have, thz though
     
  16. mwnn

    mwnn n00b

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    Not sure what the Zen joke is really.
    I'm sure the board makers will toss in every available toy they can.
    Crimson drivers are improving. I can't really fault any of the previous/current GPUs I've owned; they've delivered performance-wise for a long time. The lowered purchasing cost compared to nVidia being an additional bonus.

    Hopefully Zen was/is designed well enough to compete/win against future offerings from Intel - ideally in pure number crunching.
    I don't see anyone else stepping up to make an alternative desktop processor.

    AMD must realise that they have to come within a few percent of the latest Intel offerings in every relevant area i.e. speed, thermals, noise, socket design/mounting, features etc
    If they are so dense that they don't know this they might as well shut down and focus on GPU's right now.
    If it doesn't deliver on raw speed then I'm sure [H]ardOCP will quite rightly knock the s**t out of it if it also fails to deliver value for money.

    Have the hardware limits been hit? Can CPU's get a great deal quicker?
    At least for the majority, existing software doesn't seem to make full use of the currently available processing power.
    I'm thinking that if another 6 years goes by and we see the same or less amount of progress (20-25%; old models vs new) then I'm really not going to be upset over buying a high end Zen that matches today's Intel.

    I'd love to have Microcenter and cheaper US prices but you can add 20% on top of anything bought over here. And for some places it's even worse 27%!
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2016
  17. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    As ever -

    WAIT FOR THE REAL REVIEWS!

    and then -


    BRACE FOR DISAPPOINTMENT!
     
  18. zita

    zita n00b

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    my experience AMD less[​IMG]
     
  19. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    Waiting for the huge VIA cpu comeback!

    Yeahhhhhhhhhhhh! Year 2000 performance with 2016 technology.
     
  20. MV75

    MV75 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yet for some reason it'll run 50% hotter, use 25% more power and still be slow as shit unless clocked at 7ghz.
     
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  21. JustReason

    JustReason razor1 is my Lover

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    So can we quote you on this at release or is this just one of those asinine comments made to feel superior.
     
  22. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well just going by the past two or three AMD releases so...
     
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  23. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt 2[H]4U

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    Two things that stand out for me from the slides, the first is the focus on performance improvement for x86 instructions. The other is the final slide in big bold letters "Designed from the ground up for optimal balance of performance and power." To me, this is marketing speak for "Our product wasn't designed to compete on the high end because we still haven't relearned how to do that." Maybe it's a subtle philosophy shift in their message to the public from 'promise the world, deliver a sack of potatoes' to 'promise a tater, deliver a...country'.
     
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  24. Ultima99

    Ultima99 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

    I had K6-2. K6-3, Athlon, and AthlonXP systems back in the day. That was all before they fell apart and I went with my i7 920 that crushed AMD. Since then its been a 4770k and E3-1270v5.
     
  25. Cobalt35

    Cobalt35 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah AMD back to their marketing PR bullshit again. "Hey look we're faster than Intel!!!" Sure you are, when you artificially de-clock the Intel CPU. Show me your cpu beating Intel at stock clocks and I'll be impressed. Deliberately go out of your way to obfuscate the results because you know you can't really compete and you can go fuck yourself.

    Edit: You know what? At this stage, until AMD can stop with the deliberate lies and misdirection in their marketing, I don't really care if they do bring out a CPU that's faster than Intel or a graphics card that's faster than nVidia. I'm not interested. Start telling the truth about your products and I'll look at you again. Keep up with the blatant lies and misdirection and, as I said, you can go fuck yourself.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2016
  26. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I use two different systems, both with FX 8 core processors and they work very well and quite fast. The only disappointment I have ever had with them is that AMD did not offer 8 core steamroller or excavator processors. Now, with Zen coming, that should shake things up quite well one way or the other. It is pretty obvious who will consider AMD and who will not, even if they end up being the fastest. (Which they will in many circumstances but probably not all but, in my opinion, they will end up close enough to be competitive.)
     
  27. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Wow, did AMD kick your dog and kill your cat? :D Did you lose a bunch of money on their stocks or do you just feel animosity towards them just because? :D
     
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  28. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    Actually it shows their improvements in instructions per clock cycle nothing more.The performance of Zen is based on a engineering sample so maybe next time they need to buy a Broadwell engineering sample just to appease you ?

    Pretty ballsy going up against a retail version ...
     
  29. SonicTron

    SonicTron Snopes is My Fact Checker

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    You're too kind, even your 8 year old i7 920 is still as good as most of the AMD offerings
     
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  30. GothamsReckoning

    GothamsReckoning Limp Gawd

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    The last slide has a part of the die shot. While you can't see much these slides are definitely getting interesting. This week is also Hot Chips so we should get more info soon.

    Edit: Looks like this release is the same as the Hot Chips information about Zen's architecture.
     
  31. Quix

    Quix 2[H]4U

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    Considering how overhyped the RX 480 was, coupled with how insanely overhyped the -dozer series processors were and the Fury, I no longer believe anything AMD announces. I hope this is a competitive chip, but I'll believe it when I see real benchmarks for tech sites I personally trust.

    Anandtech has a fairly interesting article about AMD's claims for Zen as well and even they aren't 100% buying in to the hype.
     
  32. pcgeekesq

    pcgeekesq [H]ard|Gawd

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    As far as what they posted, and for anything that matters, yes. They've been out on the internet for a few days.

    Architecturally, the highest praise I can offer AMD is that it looks like a passable imitation of Intel's venerable Sandy Bridge.
     
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  33. pcgeekesq

    pcgeekesq [H]ard|Gawd

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    Some people hate scammers and con artists. Whether AMD's marketing department is one or the other of those is good question.

    Other people may resent AMD screwing the pooch and leaving Intel with no competition in the high end - it wasn't always that way, and it didn't have to be.
     
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  34. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    We are all hoping, we'll just have to see.

    It doesn't scare me all that much that they down clocked an intel chip for a comparison. It ran faster on the same terms >.< Proves their architecture is superior... now it will come down to manufacturing. This far out from a launch it should be obvious they aren't running at final clock, if they where... the launch would be now. Intel has done a good job of spending tons of money on Fab... that will be the hurdle AMD has to jump.

    The question will be;
    Can AMDs > architecture make up for < fab tech.
     
  35. razor1

    razor1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yes and no, we saw AMD use the same benchmark (different version) with Bulldozer vs. Intel same core CPU where Bulldozer is the supposed winner lol. Blender benchmark is one of the ones AMD has a traditional lead, so its not a good one to even look at.
     
  36. ThatsAgood1jay

    ThatsAgood1jay Gawd

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    Excited to read HardOCP's review of the chips. Until then ill be putting money away to build a new system.

    It's all vapor until the chip is running on the bench in front of you.
     
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  37. Flexion

    Flexion [H]ard|Gawd

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    Have to see what these things cost. I mean even if they're slower than Intel's best, if they do it at a cheap price and offer a good bang for the buck, then these will have a chance in the consumer market. Otherwise it's all about performance per watt then if they're going for industrial/server farm use.
     
  38. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    You have no idea what you are talking about. Blender is used as a benchmark but is a rendering program blender.org . It being good or bad is dependant on what people you want to believe. However you want to put it is useful since you can compile the source which would make sense for anything to be considered as a benchmark.
    The "benchmark" does not function as you and many like you want it to be , it only shows that AMD made an improvement on their IPC it is in no way tied to retail products.

    In other words if AMD comes out with retail Zen and it does not go above 3.5ghz it will lose to retail Broadwell regardless of how the Blender demo ran ...
     
  39. razor1

    razor1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yeah no, it doesn't show single threaded performance at all, its a program that is extremely mutlithreaded. It doesn't give any idea of what the IPC improvements are.

    I'm very familiar with Blender as I'm a 3d artist and have used it at various times...... every single pc that I used blender on, all I wanted the companies to have in their pc's is not clock speed, more cores the better......xeon 10 cores two or four of them at low clocks speeds were the best bang for the buck for them when using blender.
     
  40. raz-0

    raz-0 [H]ardness Supreme

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    1) I'm not confident zen will live up to the press releases in real world use. AMD currently occupies a state where they have to prove it to me.
    2) Even if zen is decent, will they have a decent chipset out for it on day one, or will it be next revision that has one, or multiple firmware updates that take months, etc?
    3) Given AMD is fabless, will they have yield if there is any demand becuase the answers to one and two were good?
     
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