AMD vs NVIDIA Drivers....FIGHT!

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by FrgMstr, Jul 16, 2018.

  1. Chris_B

    Chris_B [H]ardness Supreme

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    Nature of the beast, sometimes the issues rear their head for certain configs and not others. I've never really had any issues with amd or nvidia drivers, but obviously thats not the case for everyone. AMD just got stuck for a bad driver rep years back and its been tough to shake.
     
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  2. aokman

    aokman Gawd

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    Never had an issue with NVIDIA drivers, mine are like a year old now. Back when I had ATI it was a royal pain in the ass of bluescreens and game crashes. Dont care if they have improved, they make 2nd rate performance cards anyway and im glad to have moved on to NVIDIA.

    AMD would rather spend money on shitty CGI cartoons and propaganda marketing for vapourware and use their end users as driver beta testers.
     
  3. Vercinaigh

    Vercinaigh Gawd

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    Yeah me too but I'm just saying haven't pretty much both gotten huge? For that matter recall realtek sound drivers being huge too. Seems silly.
     
  4. pexxie

    pexxie n00b

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    Didn't see that specified in the report. Just saw "graphics accelerators." My assumption was general GPU, not discrete. Report quite vague.

    Race? Haha. Like a race for supreme driver stability? Haha, never heard of such a thing, but am never too old to learn new things. I'd be impressed to see evidence of competition on that front. I always thought they competed on performance and features.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
  5. Dermen

    Dermen Limp Gawd

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    I've constantly switched back and forth since I built my first PC 15 years ago and never noticed one being better than the other.
     
  6. defaultluser

    defaultluser [H]ardForum Junkie

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    This "thorough" test doesn't account for any hardware failures, which is the first thing I thought of when I saw that string of errors for the GTX 1060 and Quadro P600 and WX 3100. "The test compared 12 GPU's, six from AMD and six from NVIDIA, running on 12 identical machines."

    1 = insignificant sample size, especially if you want to isolate the drivers from the hardware here.
    IF AN ERROR HAPPENS CONSISTENTLY ACROSS MULTIPLE COPIES OF THE SAME GPUS, then you have a data point. But a single observation is just an observation (could be hardware, could be software). But running that many GPUs would cost money, and why would you want to spend that on a PR piece?

    They also don't tell you which programs were run, which also screams biased selection to make the results go one way or another.

    If you want to be taken seriously as a "study," you need a larger sample size than just twelve GPUs, and a completely identified "secret sauce" of test applications (so you can determine if these programs they run are even useful at all).
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2018
  7. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    I was talking about competition yes. Intel isn't competing with Nvidia in GPUs at all, they don't sell product into overlapping markets at all right now. Intel does compete with AMD indirectly sort of... if a machine ships with integrated graphics the CPU is still the main selling point. (and Intel is now shipping Intel CPUs with AMD GPUs... so they are actually working together going forward at least until Intel builds their actual own GPUs).

    Still yes hardware doesn't work without software drivers. Features don't work until the driver enables them. So yes their software drivers are very much part of the package.
     
  8. xmadror

    xmadror Gawd

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    In my one recent experience with a fury air the drivers seems at least as good as NV.
    Past experience with a hd6950 wasn't as great because game optimization were slow.
    Crossfire hd7970m in my m18x alienware was a hit or miss depending on the game, it would often get fixed months after I was done playing the game on one card and that always made me mad!
     
  9. JunXaos

    JunXaos n00b

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    I have 1080 and Vega 64, both bought on launch. I've had very little problem with NVidia driver but like what Archaea said the Vega 64 driver on launch was not very good. It's getting better now but I still have some problems like display driver crash in some games and video HW acceleration showing green screen watching videos in VLC.
     
  10. d8lock

    d8lock Gawd

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    In my experience, AMD has better drivers for single card configurations. However, multi card setups have been better with Nvidia. With my 580s, about a third of the time the second gpu is not detected when rebooting. It is pretty damn annoying. Honestly though, I think both companies could do with driver improvements.
     
  11. Trimlock

    Trimlock [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Man I could go back and bitch about my older ATI cards and their absolute shit tastic drivers but to be a bit fair Nvidia wasn’t an angle either.

    I’ve owned more AMD cards than Nvidia recently, actually before I got my 1080 my last Nvidia was an 8800 lol. AMD drivers have NOT been kind to me, so much that I replaced my HD7850 in my HTPC with a GT630 because it was just el turrible. But the only one that I had to really question my future with AMD was the 4870. Man I wanted that card to succeed (and it did!) but god damn did those drivers want to make me buy the dreaded GTX480...
     
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  12. Jon855

    Jon855 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Mine's at 398.36 (Release date -06/26/2018) and I run ARMA 3 just fine... And it's the current drivers, I checked.

    What's your nVidia driver revision?
     
  13. Slade

    Slade 2[H]4U

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    In a work setting, I found 2 of my 1080 users affected by a major nvidia driver bug which still exists to the current version; it causes a crash when using google web apps such as maps in Firefox Quantum. Full on device driver failure in windows of the nvidia driver. Only reverting to an earlier driver set prevents the bug from happening.

    Now I keep telling them to use chrome, but whatever, the bug exists and I can't revert to a pre-spectre/meltdown version of Firefox for them to prevent this bug. I'm sure there's a lot of these classes of bugs lately which is plaguing nvidia as of late. AMD's driver sets are not immune to their own weird bugs either, but in terms of full on device driver bugs, AMD still holds the crown for causing me grief in the past 2 years.
     
  14. zalazin

    zalazin [H]ard|Gawd

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    Gee AMD better than Nvidia? Yes when they actually release drivers. Took them almost a year to release decent drivers for Mobile Vega 8 apu......
     
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  15. IcePickFreak

    IcePickFreak [H]ard|Gawd

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    Wow we made it a whole day without getting this thread locked. I'd ask Uncle Kyle if he'd take us for ice cream, but we'll probably wind up arguing about which flavor is best. :LOL:

    Missed this on my read thru til I seen someone else reply, and I'm with him. I haven't had any issues with Arma 3 with the latest drivers. I didn't have any with the previous ones I was using from last fall either (or with AMD before that.) The game can be finicky for sure though, especially with OCing.

    BI lists a few boot problems in the known issues list for 1.82 https://dev.arma3.com/known-issues

    Also try launching from the game exe directly once instead of using the launcher.
     
  16. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

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    This thread proves the very problem we have here in that people spew out personal experience as a factor. We have Nvidia owners who claim to never have problems except back in 2012 when they last owned an AMD card.

    This study is bullshit cause AMD paid for it, but when Vista was released it was Nvidia's drivers that crashed the most machines, and Nvidia that claimed a 32bit driver that was 64bit. Your personal experience doesn't mean shit.

    I'd like to see real reliablility tests and not some script kiddies paid for by AMD. Like looking at the workstation and server environments and see how often those machines crash cause those people will keep better records AMD vs Nvidia.
     
  17. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Unless that personal experience is being experienced by the majority of users as well, and documented in vendor fix logs.

    I will agree that any experience over a few years old is moot - cause driver quality is per card, or at least per generation - so old experience is useless against today's testing.
     
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  18. scojer

    scojer 2[H]4U

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    Exactly. I've not had an AMD card, last Red card I had was ATI, which was quite a while ago. I have a 1070 right now and my next card will be based on which card is within my budget and better performing at the time, green or red.

    I have liked all of Kyle's AMD driver articles showing the huge improvements compared to Nvidia's drivers.
    https://hardforum.com/threads/amd-video-card-driver-performance-review-fine-wine-h.1923714/
     
  19. novaflare

    novaflare Limp Gawd

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    Well is it maybe because amd was doing more things along the lines of experimenting with their drivers during those years to get more out of their cards and now nvidia is doing that while amd has stopped? Lets face it hardware wise amd and nvidia are basically just as capable as each other. The amount of over the top performance is so high now that no game will ever be able to max out a top of the line card in any thing other than maybe 4k res with all settings maxed. It is all in the drivers now and gettign things as fast as possible and as stable as possible. My biggest complaint with nvidia is this error 43 windows has stopped this device because it has reported problems. A error that has existed all the way back to early windows xp days with no real solution. Mostly happening when you put a nvidia card in a amd based machine. When i was trying to convert a dell power edge server to a mid range gaming rig i believe i made a post here trying to find a solution and none was found. Weeks of google searchign etc turned none up that worked finally i traded the power edge for a optiplex 780 intel core 2 duo system and the card works perfectly.

    But performance wise i honestly can not tell any difference image quality is maybe better on one or the other but honestly nothing to get excited about. My advice stick with what you know and like. If you like nvidia stay with em if amd is your fave stay with em. If you could care less about the logo buy what is cheapest with sim or same performance and quality. I have a few machines now and they all have different cards hell my laptop uses a intel hd 4400 and when i had windows on it finale fantasy 15 played just fine at max settings so um yeh lol no offense nvidia or amd but yeh we are now at a level of performance that no game can top out on the high end. How about some fun new features or all in one vid cards and other media stuff let the games start catching up keep working on your drivers and stop wasting our time with hype...
     
  20. darckhart

    darckhart Limp Gawd

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    Yes, I feel like AMD drivers for game performance have improved drastically, while NVIDIA has focused more on adding all this extra crap that's not focused on game performance. And when they do, it seems like they pick and choose which games get attention and which don't. Very frustrating.
    I like when drivers are just drivers and maybe some monitoring/performance tools. I don't need all the other crap bundled with it like GFE. Thankfully I can still choose not to install those.
     
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  21. Rockenrooster

    Rockenrooster Limp Gawd

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    Haven't had issues with either really. Only slowness when using the nvidia control panel on my MSI laptop. Stupid thing takes like 5 secs to register clicks and setting changes and it has an i7 quad and a 850 evo.

    I do agree with cards these days having crap tons of power.
    What we need are software wizards that can optimize the living crap out of hardware. This is a real problem for games these days.
    The Vega64 has crap tons of compute power, but in pretty much all games, it only competes with the 1080.
    We need games to not only use Vulkan/DX12, but use it right...

    Example of ultra poor optimization = ARK Survival Evolved, fun game, but runs like utter crap.
    I have played several other games that look better and also run a crap ton better than ARK. (Battlefront, Warframe, Crysis 3) I'm sure there are others.
     
  22. R_Type

    R_Type Limp Gawd

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    Ok I'll bite: why only firepros and what is it you do?
     
  23. TheXev

    TheXev n00b

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    I can't aruge there. Vega's are nice cards to own... NOW, but at launch they were a complete shit show thanks to the drivers (and I was trying to mine with these things!). AMD absolutely needs to have stable drivers for their upcoming new card releases, and with Vega20 they shouldn't have issues (since its mostly a die shrink), but Navi and any future products can NOT afford to have 3 months of shit show drivers like Vega64/56 were. The no Crossfire thing was the biggest BS imo, but I wasn't activly trying to use it at at the time. And yeah... my Vega64's were loud af at 100%, but at least they paid for themselves before I shut down the mining on them.

    I never had issues like this when I was running my Triple Crossfire setup with 3x RX 580's (I had some issues when I tired to use PCIe port extenders, but plugged directly into the motherboard was never an issue). I was running a Gigabyte GA-Z170X-UD3 and the Triple Crossfire worked flawlessly in the one game I was able to try it with (Prey). I did have some strangness before I put my 3rd card on an extender though. My middle card was sufficated for air and would throttle down, but after putting my 3rd card on a full extender and moving it down a few slots in my case, everything had plenty of air and the strangeness was gone. I think its odd that some of these three large PCIe slot mobo's that can do Triple Crossfire don't have a bit more space between large slots 2 and 3.

    I really need to get some more games I can run in Crossfire to play around with these different configs though.
     
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  24. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardForum Junkie

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    What pisses me off about the Vega launch was that nobody acknowledged the sham it was—- except those that owned the cards at launch and have since sold them and so feel free to talk about it. Every thing about the prelaunch hype was a sham. Vega should go down as one of the worst GPU launches in history.

    Raja/AMD/partners vaguely, but intentionally promoting through twitter that they mined 2x's faster than they did.
    The AMD product bundles to ensure AMD cards get into the hands of gamers(sure that promotion had nothing to do with selling more AMD hardware did it?)
    The claim they were holding back the launch until they built up sufficient product (Our local microcenter had 2 Vega cards. 2 at launch! -- does that sound sufficient to you for a city of 1.5 million people? I unfortunately got one of them.
    The complete absence of Crossifre - it didn't even work with 3dmark (the most popular benchmarking tool worldwide). HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN??? (I'll tell you how it happened, they launched it with crap, half baked, not ready, driver support)
    The silver tongued fox claim that they didn't want these cards to go to miners, but rather to the hands fo gamers --- straight double talk. Meanwhile they released mining specific drivers publically in 'beta' form on their website with a wink and a nod promising increased hashing prowess and making miner's lips drip with previously mentioned hyper inflated ETH hashing numbers that 'some of their anonymous business partners were achieving' - which of course never proved out. Then as I mentioned previously - the just barely functional drivers in general - for even the basic desktop experience. Web browser lockups in Chrome??? Really? The second most popular browser in the world? Red Screens of death? Wattman setting resets constantly - that's first party software!!!! Horrid frame rate consistency in various games, no freesync????? what??? TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE!!!


    Reviewers said not a word about the crappiness of the card drivers. THEY HAD TO KNOW??!!??. The biggest thing the reviewers complained about was the power usage. Well big whoop there -- if that was the only problem I'd still happily own Vega and this post would not exist.
    I bought three cards at launch. I worked hard to get them camped Microcenter, immediately pulled over on the side of the road while driving to snap up a nowinstock alert twice. My friend Nick bought a few too, my cousin Brett bought four, and a couple other local mining buddies bought one or two each. These were for mixed gaming and mining in these instances. We all sold them in outright disgust within a few months. All of us!!!!

    We all agreed they were the worst cards we'd ever bought. We had a mining chat text group conversation daily that eventually turned to a point it was just a venting session for how unbelievably bad the Vega card drivers were. And not just the inital launch drivers, but the many iterations, beta another otherwise that came out the first couple months. It was a cess pool of various problems for the first couple months for all of us. All had unbelievable/ undeniable problems. And yet that's just glossed over. No reviewer I saw made mention of these many disappointments. And now, less than a year later AMD drivers are as good or better than Nvidia's --- reads the headline. You point me to an Nvidia card that launched with so many jacked up traits.

    I was part of the problem, because I held my tongue thinking AMD would get it figured out soon enough and was trying to cut them some ill deserved slack after my positive Fury X experience. They should NEVER have released Vega in that state. It was clear the card was hot off the fab press, and the drivers were still being made to work in the rawest of forms. Good grief it was awful. I felt completely ripped off, and it's going to take some time for me to consider trusting AMD again with a card launch. (especially considering this information isn't clearly out there for the masses!!!) Part of me wonders if there isn't much info out there because the cards just weren't that accessible to most people for the first 3-6 months - so problems were being fixed along the way and perhaps by the time the majority of users got the cards - the launch problems were knocked down.

    When I went from Vega to a 1080ti it was just so refreshing to have 0 issues with anything. And it wasn’t a individual bad card, or a bad host machine. I had three Vega cards. They all sucked. I was using the same host machine previous to Vega with no problems, and am using the same problem since Vega with no problems.

    Assuming reviewers had any experiences like what my buddies and I did then shame on them for not ripping AMD a new one in those early launch reviews. If AMD controlled the narrative behind the scene and told them only to test certain things to protect this type of knowledge from getting out to early adopters - than even worse...

    Frankly, I’m just as complacent for not initially and aggressively complaining about the faults and lighting up the forums with the bug reports. It’s this physiological thing where you spent a lot of money and energy on something, and you think you need to figure it out, or wait it out, rather than admit there is a problem because you might look dumb, or be viewed as incompetent. That’s past. I wasn’t alone. It was the emperor's clothes scenario. The chips fell, and I’ll not sugar coat it.

    Vega launch should go down in history as one of the worst ever!
    It needs to be known, so history won't repeat itself.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2018
  25. cdabc123

    cdabc123 2[H]4U

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    mostly mining. but even my gaming builds now use firepros as i can get them fro dirt cheap
     
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  26. R_Type

    R_Type Limp Gawd

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    Ah ok!
     
  27. KarsusTG

    KarsusTG 2[H]4U

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    I have heard that AMD has improved quite a bit. I can tell you Nvidia does not support having two different gpu's anymore. IE: a quadro and a 1060 in the same machine. For the longest time this was supported, but straight from Nvidia supports mouth "this feature is no longer available."
     
  28. Elf_Boy

    Elf_Boy 2[H]4U

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    All this talk about who is the better driver and no one has checked how many points they each have on their licence.
     
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  29. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Looks like AMDs history of bad launch drivers repeated itself with Radeon VII.

    This kind of stuff should be aired like the dirty laundry it is. It’ll save all of us consumers frustration and maybe make AMD get in gear if people stop buying their launch products coupled with half-baked drivers.
     
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  30. zalazin

    zalazin [H]ard|Gawd

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    ha ha ha Tell me about it, still waiting for mobile ryzen drivers from AMD after they finally said they would supply them after oems failed to for over a year......promised them this month.. hey I got some Brooklyn Bridge parts for sale........
     
  31. darrpara

    darrpara Gawd

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    Nvidia drivers are like Coors Light. Yeah, you'll get drunk but it will take like 10 driver updates and you feel shittier about it every update.

    AMD drivers are like grape juice. Just wait a decade and you'll be able to sip some fine wine. It's too bad you're thirsty now.
     
  32. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    This has been my experience as well. NVIDIA used to have a good control panel, etc. and AMD has moved forward while NVIDIA has been stagnant with its interface. AMD driver quality seems to be getting better all the time with NVIDIA reaching a point where I wait a week or more to see how the latest NVIDIA drivers are doing on our forums before taking the plunge myself.
     
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  33. Maddness

    Maddness [H]ard|Gawd

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    Whilst i have been a gamer for around 30 odd years i have never run into massive issues with either company. Yes there have been the odd game that won't work properly, but either rolling back or an update will fix that. Currently I'm using an RX480 which on the whole has been pretty darn good stability wise.

    One thing i will say is this is probably not the best time for AMD to be releasing this after what has happened with the Radeon 7 launch.

    Archaea I'm glad i was never able to get my hands on a Vega 64 at launch. I tried really hard, but if i had of run into those issues like you did, i wouldn't have been to pleased either.
     
  34. horrorshow

    horrorshow [H]ardness Supreme

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    Figured I'd post just to give a heads up:

    I recently swapped out some parts and was running into DPC latency issues. After running Latencymon for a while, I was able to narrow it down to the nvl-whatever.sys (the main driver file).

    So, I installed the most recent driver and bam, DPC dropped to within normal levels.

    Could've been the motherboard swap, could've been the driver revision. *shrugs* (I had def run DDU right before "the big swap" soooo yeah, weird)

    - this nvidia driver/dpc latency issue has been coming up more and more on the google/reddit circuit
     
  35. ChadD

    ChadD 2[H]4U

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    Depends on the OS your looking at. (ok I know Linux isn't very many folks first concern, it for some of us though)

    In Linux land... Radeon VII drivers where up and running on day one for anyone with a current kernel and open source driver.

    For a long time many Linux heads (myself included) had/have suggested going Nvidia... although you have to use their closed source drivers (which few Linux folks are big fans of) there drivers where solid and for Linux gaming it was just the way to go.

    Well turns out that isn't really so anymore. Radeon VII is performing better in comparison to NV under Linux then windows. Under Linux VII is not just keeping pace with 2080 its besting it and landing in between 2080 and 80ti. All while using a 100% open source driver from kernel to Opengl/vulkan. Even seeing VII best windows numbers on a few DX11 games running under Proton (steam play).

    My theory at this point is simple... the MI60 (running the same Vega20) has been official since November, and I suspect AMD was actually shipping them to Google for their game streaming tests before they where announced in Nov. Everyone in Linux land was speculating which card Vega20 was when it showed up in the kernel what seems like forever ago now. Anyway Googles servers are AMD powered and I am pretty sure there test servers where running MI60 hardware under Linux. It doesn't make sense to build a game streaming service running windows server... or trying to VM things. Ubisoft has been working with Google since early 2018 on Agones their open source linux game server tech. So it makes sense the first game they tested was an Ubisoft title. I would assume Ubisoft modified and compiled for Linux the AC Odd code to run on googles server... however. In early January the DXVK project got a commit that added Vulkan multiDrawIndirect and the commit came from a user that had never submitted another piece of code to anything on GIT... and it bumped AC Odd performance 20% so who knows its possible google was streaming a pretty standard windows version of the game running via DXVK. (not likely I know but its possible... the timing of that mainline DXVK patch makes one wonder, if Google/Ubisoft wasn't responsible and where simply sharing back some code they had already been using with their streaming test)
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  36. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    There was a difference between the drivers that the press got and the ones currently available. All I could read from reviews that they could not under volt/over clock on the drivers that were supplied.

    No where did I read that the performance of the card was in any way shape or form influenced by these drivers.
     
  37. R_Type

    R_Type Limp Gawd

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    My experience to. Never run into problems that have dragged on for ages and ages over multiple sets of drivers. That being said I've never run multi-gpu or multi-monitor setups, which is a minefield. I can't help but suspect that outside of these 2 use cases folks are running into actual faulty hardware or other undetected system issues when their rigs don't work right under multiple sets of drivers. Years ago I had a friend fail in getting his multi-gpu setup working on an i7-920 system, after some digging found out the mobo bios was never updated, changed to the latest version and the system worked perfectly.
     
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  38. dgingeri

    dgingeri 2[H]4U

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    It could have been the way the driver installed, too. I have had DPC issues with nvidia drivers before where I just uninstalled the driver, used a driver cleaner to make sure everything was gone, and then reinstalled the exact same driver from the exact same files, and the issue went away. Nvidia has a very inconsistent installer, but that's just a minor issue in comparison to AMD drivers.
     
  39. Master_shake_

    Master_shake_ [H]ardForum Junkie

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    500 megabytes for a driver download is getting pretty ridiculous.

    they're both guilty of that.
     
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