AMD vs NVIDIA Drivers....FIGHT!

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Kyle_Bennett, Jul 16, 2018.

  1. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

    Messages:
    52,800
    Joined:
    May 18, 1997
    AMD commissioned QA Consultants to do stability testing on its GPUs and drivers compared to NVIDIA's. AMD video cards in the test included Vega 64, RX 580, and RX560 cards. NVIDIA cards included GTX 1080 Ti, GTX 1060, and GTX 1050. AMD came out ahead of NVIDIA by a 10% margin overall. The full detailed report can be read in this PDF. There are charts that show every failure logged starting on page 6 of the PDF. Let the fanboy arguments begin!

    Check out the video.

    In May 2018, AMD commissioned QA Consultants to independently evaluate the stability of several of the latest graphics drivers from both AMD and NVIDIA. A pool of 6 AMD and 6 NVIDIA graphics accelerators were subjected to 12 days of 24-hour stress testing using CRASH from Microsoft’s Windows Hardware Lab Kit (HLK). Gaming and Workstation products from both graphics vendors were equally represented. The aggregate of AMD products passed 93% of scheduled tests whereas the aggregate of NVIDIA products passed 82% of scheduled tests (See Figure 1).
     
    Nightfire, c3k, YeuEmMaiMai and 3 others like this.
  2. hesho

    hesho Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    481
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    i personally think that amd was bad and it has gotten way better, while nvidia was great and has gotten worst...
     
    KarsusTG, R_Type, AlphaQup and 16 others like this.
  3. PhaseNoise

    PhaseNoise Gawd

    Messages:
    901
    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    I never had outright crash problems with AMD, but rather wildly inconsistent performance or visual issues in new titles.

    I'm told both these aspects have been improved considerably in recent years, but those were the bugaboos I used to have. Crashes were rare / non-existent.
     
    GoldenTiger likes this.
  4. scojer

    scojer 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,520
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    But... with the spyware built into geforce drivers that's so they can collect data to improve their drivers, right?
     
  5. Peter2k

    Peter2k Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    292
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Nvidia has been going down hill for a while now when it came to drivers

    The few times this year I updated my drivers for games I came to regret it

    First was FarCry 5
    Driver optimized for FC5 caused crashes, confirmed by Nvidia

    Second was for Battletech, drivers didn't even install
    Confirmed by Nvidia as well

    And that's just the updates I personally cared about

    I'll let other be the canaries from now on
     
    AlphaQup, mkk, Bigshrimp and 5 others like this.
  6. SeymourGore

    SeymourGore 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,432
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2008
  7. Shmee

    Shmee [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,075
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2014
    I am not sure I 100% buy it, but they have gotten waaaay better than they used to be, and the quicker updates have been nice too.
     
  8. nEo717

    nEo717 [H]Lite

    Messages:
    100
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2017
    Even included some Workstation Cards - I notice this morning on AMD's website some Vega 64 in stock at $599, pricing is slowly getting closer to where it needs to be vs. performance/quality - Personally I've always been happy with AMD Workstation Card pricing vs. Quadro's.
     
  9. pcgeekesq

    pcgeekesq [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,124
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Pardon my skepticism, but this is like expert witnesses in court cases: you can always find one that will testify in favor of your side.
    If this study had shown NVidia winning, we never would have heard of it.

    Not that I think NVidia drivers are better-- I have no recent experience with AMD drivers, and I haven't been gaming recently either.
     
    TimberVD likes this.
  10. jardows

    jardows [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,129
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2015
    I find it very interesting that the workstation cards had the higher rate of crashes. While this test may be a marketing "win" for AMD, both vendors should look at this with some concern for the stability of their "professional" products.
     
    Vercinaigh and Armenius like this.
  11. IcePickFreak

    IcePickFreak Gawd

    Messages:
    980
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    My GPU drivers can beat up your GPU drivers!
    7NLEr7V.gif
     
  12. jnemesh

    jnemesh Gawd

    Messages:
    811
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Excellent having this confirmed! I had my suspicions for a while, just reading about all of the issues Nvidia has been having with their patches actually BREAKING functionality. AMD had a few bad years with drivers, but turned things around...while Nvidia has gotten fat and complacent!
     
    dragonstongue and Armenius like this.
  13. ecmaster76

    ecmaster76 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,157
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Did they account for all the RX 480 owners who died in house fires?

    /s
     
    verncat05, TimberVD and auntjemima like this.
  14. Armenius

    Armenius [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    14,316
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    NVIDIA drivers have gone down hill in the past few years. They need to trim the fat, get new engineers, or both. It's seriously bad if I'd rather wait for the hotfix driver than install a "WHQL" release these days.
     
  15. vegeta535

    vegeta535 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,091
    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2013
    Commissioned by AMD eh? I never had a driver issuse with Nvidia. I update every time a new one comes out too.
     
    TimberVD likes this.
  16. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,757
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    I think we have a lot of forum trolls who spew out nonsense either because they're fanboys or because they're paid by Nvidia. Sighting things like personal experience and what not.

    brace-yourselves-the-nvidia-fanboys-are-coming.jpg
     
  17. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,757
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    AMD paid for this? Yea, this isn't a reliable test result.
     
    Parja, caddys83, TimberVD and 3 others like this.
  18. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

    Messages:
    2,874
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    I know this is about windows drivers. Still I wonder how much AMDs open source driver team support has helped their windows side.

    AMDs Linux drivers went from.... meh to fantastic in less then a year after they really committed to supporting the open team. Their old closed Linux drivers where rock solid if not super impressive in terms of performance. Their new open source drivers however deliver on both performance and stability.

    Good to see AMD has figured out drivers make a GPU. AMD/ATI cards have always been seen as cards that will get better as they age partly because the drivers are always so so day one. Hopefully that has completely changed. That they already have code for their Vega 20 in the Linux kernel is a good sign I would say.
     
  19. hurleybird

    hurleybird [H]Lite

    Messages:
    81
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2012
    That's exactly been my experience.

    I'm sure Nvidia still puts more resources into their drivers overall, but those resources have become so heavily skewed towards performance that stability has suffered.
     
    TheXev, Darth Kyrie and nEo717 like this.
  20. Elf_Boy

    Elf_Boy 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,081
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2007
    Need to read that when I get home from work so I can poke the green and red fan boy/girls with a sharp stick :)
     
  21. 04SVT

    04SVT 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,301
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Still waiting for AMD to release:
    A video card that competes with the top Nvidia video card.
    A CPU that competes with the top Intel CPU.
     
  22. iNViSiGOD

    iNViSiGOD Gawd

    Messages:
    566
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2002
    Their Linux drivers are improving but they still have a little ways too go compared to where Mesa sits. Still nice that they at least try and work with the open source community.
     
  23. ccwilder3

    ccwilder3 n00bie

    Messages:
    24
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2017
    The last Nvidia update killed Arma 3 on my machine. Even a roll back would not get it working.
     
  24. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,757
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    I have some complaints. Firstly the AMDGPU-PRO driver still has a bug that causes Kodi to pagefault. The open source drivers don't have this problem, so I use them. Also, the open source drivers don't work well with some HDTV's cause they can't read that EDID chip too well, while the AMDGPU-PRO drivers don't have this problem. There's a fix for this, but it should have been fixed years ago. Also, the open source driver for the Radeon HD 5000/6000 cards don't have OpenGL support beyond 3.3 because there's no soft FP64 support.
     
  25. SPARTAN VI

    SPARTAN VI [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,874
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    Back when I was using crossfired 2x HD 6950's, I had to configure a hotkey to set my memory and core clock speeds since the driver would automatically downclock my cards when entering 3D applications. The stupid fucking thing would use 3D speeds when browsing, but would switch to a 2D profile automatically when I launched a game. What the shit... I've never had to do anything remotely similar to that with Nvidia. OTOH, I've never seen a BSOD or crash that could be traced back to an AMD driver like I have w Nvidia.
     
  26. Rvenger

    Rvenger [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,400
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2012

    Ever heard of Ryzen?
     
  27. CrazyRob

    CrazyRob [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,247
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    So, my take away is that they used one synthetic test configuration to determine stability across a variety of hardware from a few different generations with a variety of drivers. Does anyone know if this is the same method of testing that is involved with whql certification? Regardless, this seems like way too small of a set of information to draw any useful conclusions, considering the large scope of hardware.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
  28. 04SVT

    04SVT 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,301
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Yep. Ever hear of the i9 or 1080Ti?

    Are you honestly going to counter with the Threadripper and Vega 64?
     
    GoldenTiger and Armenius like this.
  29. ThreeDee

    ThreeDee [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,555
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2001
    I see .. a 2 vs 1 battle and AMD still holds its own against nVIdia and Intel .... and only getting better/stronger
     
    Darth Kyrie likes this.
  30. jnemesh

    jnemesh Gawd

    Messages:
    811
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Yeah, the Threadripper is more powerful than anything Intel offers, which is why they embarrassed themselves with that liquid cooled 28 core failbox. Just because it doesn't perform as well with OLD games doesn't make Intel better. Also, AMD uses solder, not toothpaste (TIM) on their chips, no need to de-lid.

    And Vega64 is pretty damn powerful. Especially with games that are developed with it in mind. (it beats the 1080ti on the Battlefield V alpha) DX12 games generally run better on AMD. I will take (and took, as of last week!) a freesync monitor and Vega74 over a 1080ti any day of the week.
     
    caddys83, Luke Wells, mkk and 9 others like this.
  31. Makaveli@BETA

    Makaveli@BETA 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,227
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    And what does any of this have to do with a Driver thread?

    Fanboy much?
     
    Luke Wells, mkk, Nightfire and 8 others like this.
  32. Lunas

    Lunas [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,921
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2001
    amd was ok and un spectacular then better and better

    nvidia was ok then bad then worse now they seem good...
     
  33. horrorshow

    horrorshow [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,227
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2007
    As someone who used AMD from 2004-2015.... and has been back with Team Green for the past 3 years:

    Overall, both have had their fair share of bad driver-sets....

    AMD had that mouse cursor corruption business for the longest time. (happened at complete random and required a reboot)

    Nvidia, I haven't had a real issue to speak of....

    But that's mostly because after years of AMD shenanigans, I became accustomed to "cherry-picking" driver sets / waiting for forum impressions etc.

    Like right now, I'm still on 391.35 and their solid as a rock *shrugs
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
    TheXev, TimberVD and GDI Lord like this.
  34. cjcox

    cjcox Gawd

    Messages:
    872
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2004
    "As you can see, the AMD cards, are cheaper, faster and vastly more reliable. So are you ready to buy?"

    "Yes, do I go for the 1060 or go straight for the 1080?"
     
    R_Type, TimberVD, mkk and 6 others like this.
  35. Rockenrooster

    Rockenrooster n00bie

    Messages:
    58
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2017

    Lol. you said competitive
    I'd say that the 2700x competes pretty well with the 8700k.
    2700x:
    Cheaper
    Competitive in gaming (doesn't beat the 8700k on average)
    Soldered IHS.

    8700k:
    more expensive
    higher clockspeed (therefore faster in games)
    Takes a hit with the Meltdown patches.

    probably equal if you factor in price/perf with an edge to the 2700x.

    If gaming is all you ever do on your computer, than you'll be fine with a 8700k.
    However, lots of people do more than just play games so, yeah a Threadripper would be better overall than your 8700k.
    You could say the same thing about the Intel HEDT CPUs.
    Gaming? 8700k > Intel HEDT anything.
    Everything else? 8700k < HEDT AMD or Intel

    Intels i9 stuff is a joke right now unless you delid or have a custom loop.
    Intel's going to have a harder time when the 32 core Threadripper is out.
    Sure the Intel 7980xe may be marginally faster than the 1950x but at what cost? you could buy 2 1950x's for the price of one 7980xe.

    What I like about Ryzen is that I can get the 1700 or 2700 and overclock it to 1800x 2700x all core speeds.
    Thats like making a 8600k as fast as a 8700k in everything, but sadly that can never happen due to no hyperthreading on the 8600k.

    the word you were probably looking for was "faster in gaming"

    Personally I'm on a budget and it was either a i5 8600k or a 1700.
    Wasn't really that hard for me to pick since I knew that Intel was 100% guaranteed to make the socket obsolete by the time their next gen CPUs come out and I don't upgrade every year.
    The 1700 was cheaper and faster than the 8600k in basically everything that I do except for Quake Live, but I don't need anymore FPS than 144 so.......................

    Judging by your sig I'd say that you have the money upgrade to the fastest stuff whenever it comes out regardless of cost, so its Intel for you.
    Pretty much everyone else looks at price/perf

    Edit: kind of off topic, sorry.
    back on topic, I like working with AMD's drivers vastly more than my Nvidia 850m laptop. Opening the panel or changing any setting the program just hangs for 10 sec everytime. AMD's stuff is fast and fluid and I use relive recording all the time. (No experience using Shadowplay)
     
  36. NoOther

    NoOther [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,546
    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    I read through the report, I would have liked to see the errors they were getting with some of these, especially when they had the hangups. I have been curious with the rate that Nvidia has been putting out "update" drivers specific for games if they were trying to get too specific with their drivers and potentially causing more issues with other applications. It seemed like there was just a lot of chance for compatibility issues with some of them.

    Personally I have had a few issues, some of them stemming from drivers not working right for Titan cards. Overall, it hasn't been so bad though, nothing show stopping yet.
     
    jnemesh and Armenius like this.
  37. 04SVT

    04SVT 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,301
    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004

    Actually the threadripper isn't near as powerful as the i9.

    And the Vega64 doesn't touch the 1080Ti, let alone the Titan X.
     
    GoldenTiger likes this.
  38. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

    Messages:
    52,800
    Joined:
    May 18, 1997
  39. brentsg

    brentsg [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,399
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2003
    I had such bad issues with AMD that I just stopped with their products. I tried some in my kids' PC not long ago and the whole driver setup was foreign at this point b/c I'm just used to 1 thing.
     
  40. griff30

    griff30 I Lower the Boom!

    Messages:
    8,596
    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2000
    The old ATI drivers sucked.
    Period.
    AMD has came a long way in the driver Dept after years of complaints.
    I love the new drivers and yes I run Nvidia and AMD cards.
     
Tags: