AMD should be held responsible to CF owners who bought cards based on reviews.

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tajoh111

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I think a lot of owners would not have purchase a crossfire setup based on review performance with runt frames filtered out.

Especially for early adopters who paid $550 or 1100 or more for 2 card at launch for 7970(and they missed on the free games)and might only get a fix this july or 17 months later, AMD should be held accountable.

A lot of these people likely wouldn't have purchased these cards and were duped by boosted FPS.

AMD should have to give these owners are partial refund or at least some free games because this issue affects most games. From the reviews I have seen, it can chop fps from 10 percent down to almost half. This would have changed alot of owners purchasing decisions, especially people who own something like an Ares II card, which likely loses its fastest card on the planet moniker(and paid a massive premium for it).
 

bexamous

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Yeah not only will that not happen, It is even ridiculous to suggest. CF works fine, couple games is a bit broken-ish if you don't play with vsync on. Multi GPU in general is always broken-ish on a few games.
 

P4rD0nM3

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I don't think AMD owes me anything on my two ASUS DC II TOP 7970s I purchased a while ago. I mean that's usually what early adopters get (me). I'm not trolling either. I don't think they owe me anything.
 

jackstar7

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I don't think AMD owes me anything on my two ASUS DC II TOP 7970s I purchased a while ago. I mean that's usually what early adopters get (me). I'm not trolling either. I don't think they owe me anything.
I think ASUS owes me something for the DC II TOP 7970 I purchased a while ago as it doesn't come with a full-functional dual-link DVI port to power my Overlord 1440p monitor.

But my Xfire has been fine for me for the most part.
 

Final8ty

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I think a lot of owners would not have purchase a crossfire setup based on review performance with runt frames filtered out.

Especially for early adopters who paid $550 or 1100 or more for 2 card at launch for 7970(and they missed on the free games)and might only get a fix this july or 17 months later, AMD should be held accountable.

A lot of these people likely wouldn't have purchased these cards and were duped by boosted FPS.

AMD should have to give these owners are partial refund or at least some free games because this issue affects most games. From the reviews I have seen, it can chop fps from 10 percent down to almost half. This would have changed alot of owners purchasing decisions, especially people who own something like an Ares II card, which likely loses its fastest card on the planet moniker(and paid a massive premium for it).
Users have seen just as many reviews as you have, they can buy and try for themselves and send back the card is they are not happy.
 

alek

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Hrm strange posts here now. No one has noticed this frame dropping before and all the sudden some ppl are crying?
 
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Trimlock

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-reads up to runt frames

-stops reading

-has low confidence in the ops intent
 

bigsnyder

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My crossfire experience was with two HD4850s. Wonderful experience. Rarely any problems. Only issue was the single slot coolers, no overclocking headroom.
 

the_real_7

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man the Nvidia crew is out in full force with the FUD right now....
I was part of the AMD crew with two 650 dollar Asus 7970 and every card before that . . I think Amd deserves the bashing its getting . first with the driver indecent and crossfire being very bad at the beginning with performance that was hurting the whole first half of the refreshes life .. i lost alot of money on them , do i expect to get it back no . do I expect and apology f!@#$n damn right I do .
 

Trimlock

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My crossfire experience was with two HD4850s. Wonderful experience. Rarely any problems. Only issue was the single slot coolers, no overclocking headroom.
My 4870s were pretty awesome, decent headroom on them too.
 

shansoft

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man the Nvidia crew is out in full force with the FUD right now....
It's been out of control for awhile now, but lately more and more coming out of the closet.

Suddenly, Micro-stuttering is a whole new thing that people doesn't know about....... :p
 

YeuEmMaiMai

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OP should be held responsible for his/her incredibly stupid post. I'm willing to be that this person feels entitled to everything....and really does not own AMD products...
 

B2BigAl

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AMD is being held responsible, by people like me who quit buying their products. Vote with your wallet, that's about all you can do. Of course nvidia isn't exactly my favorite company in the world either, so pick your poison.
 

flu!d

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Why are people calling this issue microstuttering? I was of the opinion that the issue was one of runt frames?! Basically, AMD is using a form of 3:2 pulldown where frames stored in the frame buffer are being repeated?!

This is nothing like microstuttering and wreaks of a form of FPS padding used to artificially increase the FPS beyond what the GPU itself is capable of rendering.

There was a well known issue with the 5xxx series in Eyefinity that affected a vast majority of people where performance was roughly the same in crossfire when compared to a single card at the same resolution (some review sites actually highlighted the issue) and gameplay was in no way smooth, much like the issue coming to light here....?
 

Fooshnik

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this new thing called "run frames"!!!

what the hell is a runt frame? Is that like a frame that birthed and wasn't big enough to last the winter?
On some games crossfire will send two frames to the display at nearly the same time, causing the first to be truncated by the second when vsync is off. With vsync on it's fine. I'm not even going to bother linking the the article as it'll be reposted for the 20th time sometime in the next five minutes. I get nearly the double the framerate on Tomb Raider that I do with one card, which is good as it's unplayable on a single card. If AMD wants to give me money I'm okay with that, but they don't owe me anything as I got what I paid for.
 

Ebernanut

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It's been out of control for awhile now, but lately more and more coming out of the closet.

Suddenly, Micro-stuttering is a whole new thing that people doesn't know about....... :p
Yep, I've been thinking about moving on from [H] due to the Nvidia fans getting out of control with their flaming and spin. Ironically the last time I moved on from a tech forum it was because of ATI fans getting out of control.
 

flu!d

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Does anyone else find it odd that enabling vsync rectifies the issue?!

I mean, as far as I'm aware a frame buffer is used irregardless of whether vsync is off or on, however in the case of vsync on, a triple frame buffer is used - But frames are always stored in the frame buffer ready to be used in order, so where are the runt frames going when vsync is enabled?
 

flu!d

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Whole, extra frames....Where do the extra frames go when vsync is enabled?

Remember, as far as I understand it, this issue is a whole lot different to microstutter. Microstutter has to do with the timing of the frames being displayed, it has nothing to do with runt (or extra) frames being displayed.
 

maxius

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I was part of the AMD crew with two 650 dollar Asus 7970 and every card before that . . I think Amd deserves the bashing its getting . first with the driver indecent and crossfire being very bad at the beginning with performance that was hurting the whole first half of the refreshes life .. i lost alot of money on them , do i expect to get it back no . do I expect and apology f!@#$n damn right I do .
so you are blaming the company from providing products YOU purchased... how did you loose money? i am willing to bet that was your decision... now you demanding an apology get real.. no company in this country apologies even if their product causes great harm and kills people. oh my video card has driver issues so now im demanding an apology take your butt hurt else ware.
 

rennyf77

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It's been out of control for awhile now, but lately more and more coming out of the closet.

Suddenly, Micro-stuttering is a whole new thing that people doesn't know about....... :p
what's funny is this is a comment coming from someone who insisted to me a few years back that microstutter was eliminated with the release of the hd 48xx/ gtx2xx series cards.
 

cageymaru

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If you think you're getting bad frames or whatever from your Crossfire setup do this:

Disable Crossfire.
Turn down the graphics starting with AA until you get to 60 fps.
Play the game for a bit. Note how responsive the controls are and the flow of the game.
Enable Crossfire and turn your graphics up until you get 60 fps again.
See if your system is just as responsive. If not then Crossfire has issues.
If it's just as responsive and you're happy, STFU and play the damn game. :)
 

MavericK

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Yep, I've been thinking about moving on from [H] due to the Nvidia fans getting out of control with their flaming and spin. Ironically the last time I moved on from a tech forum it was because of ATI fans getting out of control.
Later dude. :rolleyes:

I don't know where it's getting "out of control" but this "runt frames" thing is a real issue being discussed by many other sites, it's not some random thing made up by nVidia users.

Whether or not it has any major significance, I can't personally say.
 

Ebernanut

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I wasn't talking about the runt frames issue, in fact that's the problem. There isn't any real discussion on this issue here because every thread gets derailed by Nvidia fans flaming and spinning things.

Based on previous comments I find it highly unlikely that the OP owns an AMD card so I'm not sure what there stake is in the issue other than trolling. I also find the whole premise of the post laughable since multi GPU configurations have always been problematic.
 

GoldenTiger

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Hrm strange posts here now. No one has noticed this frame dropping before and all the sudden some ppl are crying?
It's been noticed for awhile, it's just now there is full-on, rock-solid proof for people to cite.
 

NukeDukem

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I think anyone who bought 2x 7970's at launch in January 2012 did pretty well. After all, 13 months later nVidia has rolled out a single GPU that costs the same $ for significantly slower performance.

No refund needed here, I have really enjoyed using these cards in CFX over the past year. Of course, I am not a pansy who can't tweak a few things to get them running well together.
 

flu!d

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No refund needed here, I have really enjoyed using these cards in CFX over the past year. Of course, I am not a pansy who can't tweak a few things to get them running well together.
And how do you do that, enable vsync and all your runt frames magically disappear?!

Honestly, not meaning to take the piss, and us NV owners cop it as well as we give it, you AMD owners aren't saints. But this issue is proven and documented, not only that, but AMD have admitted to it.

There comes a time when you have to admit there's something dicey going on over at AMD, they're a business, they aren't the good guys.
 
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Final8ty

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And how do you do that, enable vsync and all your runt frames magically disappear?!

Honestly, not meaning to take the piss, and us NV owners cop it as well as we give it, you AMD owners aren't saints. But this issue is proven and documented, not only that, but AMD have admitted to it.

There comes a time when you have to admit there's something dicey going on over at AMD, they're a biusness, they aren't the good guys.
At the end of the day it does not matter what he is or is not doing, he is happy with his experience,

No one is saying that this issue does not exists but you cant go around telling other people to get mad about it, you give them the ifno and its upto the individual whether its annoying to them or not and how much of a big deal or not that they want to make about it.
 
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Xinmosni

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@ OP

Say what? AMD doesn't conduct the reviews, journalists/websites do. If anyone, they would be the ones responsible. ITT Title: Assbackwards thinking
 

flu!d

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At the end of the day it does not matter what he is or is not doing, he is happy with his experience,

No one is saying that this issue does not exists but you cant go around telling other people to get mad about it, you give them the ifno and its upto the individual whether its annoying to them or not and how much of a big deal or not that want to make about it
Totally agreed.;)
 

aviphysics

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Does anyone else find it odd that enabling vsync rectifies the issue?!

I mean, as far as I'm aware a frame buffer is used irregardless of whether vsync is off or on, however in the case of vsync on, a triple frame buffer is used - But frames are always stored in the frame buffer ready to be used in order, so where are the runt frames going when vsync is enabled?
I believe part of the problem is that with V-sync off, AMD is making the cards render frames as fast as they can, when they should be making them plan ahead somehow to produce frames at a more even pace.

Turning V-sync on might change change this behavior.

Regarding the initial suggestion that AMD should pay, we have all known about micro-stuttering for ages. Even attempts to analyze it aren't new. It is just like people had plain forgot about it somehow and now it is back in the public conscious again. Asking AMD to pay because reviewers wet their pants testing CF setups is just idiotic.
 

flu!d

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I believe part of the problem is that with V-sync off, AMD is making the cards render frames as fast as they can, when they should be making them plan ahead somehow to produce frames at a more even pace.
Or AMD is giving the impression the GPU is rendering frames as fast as it can....

As this:

Turning V-sync on might change change this behavior.
Doesn't make sense as all frames are rendered in the frame buffer before being displayed on the screen in order, not out of order and not duplicated in a 3:2 pulldown fashion.

Regarding the initial suggestion that AMD should pay, we have all known about micro-stuttering for ages. Even attempts to analyze it aren't new. It is just like people had plain forgot about it somehow and now it is back in the public conscious again. Asking AMD to pay because reviewers wet their pants testing CF setups is just idiotic.
Displaying runt frames is not microstuttering. The impression I get is that frames are being added or carried over in the frame buffer before being displayed on the screen - And they're not being rendered twice by the GPU?!
 
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