AMD Radeon 6990+6970 CrossFireX / "TriFire" Review @ [H]

[XacTactX]

Ever since the 3800 series, AMD has always had this in its favor: scalability. AMD's boards and chips are cheaper to make, therefore cheaper to buy/sell, and therefore more scalable in terms of price. It's not as versatile as avoiding three GPUs, but AMD is not absent at the high end, far from it, it just competes in a different way.

I wonder how this would change if they reviewed the 3gb versions of the gtx 580

Using that logic, we would have to increase the price of the AMD solution to be in-line. 6990 + 6970 would cost $200 less, and 6990 CrossFire would cost $200 more. Depending on which side of the spectrum you lean you would be comparing against one of those setups. Which would win?

 

[Forceman]

No. That's 3 cards against 2. The article is 2 cards against 2 cards, 1000$.

We all know they could do (or anyone else could do) 3X570, 4X570, 3x470, 4x470, 3X6950, etc. But that was not the point.

So what - your whole argument here and in other threads is that it's not the GPU count that matters, it is the dollar value - so why are you now ruling out 3 cards? $1000 is $1000. Stop changing your argument just to justify your love of this configuration.

And good point about the VRAM on the 570 - hadn't thought about that.

 

[Mad Cat]

So what - your whole argument here and in other threads is that it's not the GPU count that matters, it is the dollar value - so why are you now ruling out 3 cards? $1000 is $1000. Stop changing your argument just to justify your love of this configuration.

GPU count does not equal card count. It is much more difficult to fit three cards than two while leaving room for other stuff or airflow. That's why two card solutions are seen as the sweet spot.

 

[LEVESQUE]

So what - your whole argument here and in other threads is that it's not the GPU count that matters, it is the dollar value - so why are you now ruling out 3 cards? $1000 is $1000. Stop changing your argument just to justify your love of this configuration.
.

My ''argument''? ''Justify my ''love''?

I didn't wrote the article. Ask Brent and Kyle. They will tell you I didn't wrote it. They did the 2 cards vs 2 cards comparison. Not me.

Ask THEM why they did that 2 cards against 2 cards review, and not 6990+6970 against 3 X 570. Why are you asking me that? I can't answer for them. THEY made that choice. Not me. I'm not a writer nor the owner of hardOCP. I think you are confusing things and people.

And read the conclusion. You should ask THEM to ''justify'' their love for the Tri-Fire 6990+6970 set-up. Not me. Because reading the conclusion, I think they really ''loved'' every seconds of it!

Change your tone, please. Behave yourself.

 

[FLCLimax]

for all those saying that THREE GPU's vs THREE GPU's for $1000 is fair, here you have THREE 570's losing out overall to THREE 6950's, which are at 800/1250 and cost much less than $1000.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/crossfire-sli-3-way-scaling,2865-12.html

CrossFire came out with a huge overall scaling lead over SLI, and removing the one title that didn’t reflect that average would have made the lead even bigger. Superior scaling allowed two mid-priced Radeon HD 6950s to approximate the performance of two higher-cost GeForce GTX 570s, while three HD 6950s took the performance win over three GTX 570s.

Three GTX 570's would lose HANDILY against the 6990+6970 setup. the 6970 wasn't even at full speed in this test.

 

[Nightbird]

Great article guys! I really appreciate the tedious but honest methodology you guys use. Great work!

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

570's only have 1280mb vram which at this ultra high rez will choke at the same settings as the 2gb ati solution and then three 6950's would be a better deal anyway. Better luck next round nvidia.

True, the ram would be a problem with the 570s...

Palit makes a 2GB version of the GTX560TI though, and you can get 4 of them for $1100 on Newegg That would be a cool comparison

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

No. That's 3 cards against 2. The article is 2 cards against 2 cards, 1000$.

We all know they could do (or anyone else could do) 3X570, 4X570, 3x470, 4x470, 3X6950, etc. But that was not the point.

Doesn't really matter how many cards it is. It's 3 GPU;;s anyway, so the best comparison would be against 3 other GPU's

Either that, or just stick with whatever is possible at ~$1000

 

[jebo_4jc]

True, the ram would be a problem with the 570s...

Palit makes a 2GB version of the GTX560TI though, and you can get 4 of them for $1100 on Newegg That would be a cool comparison

yeah except then you're talking about a $600 motherboard compared to a $200 motherboard for tri sli or crossfire

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

True, the ram would be a problem with the 570s...

Palit makes a 2GB version of the GTX560TI though, and you can get 4 of them for $1100 on Newegg That would be a cool comparison

Ack. Never mind, it only seems to have a single SLI connector...

 

[Forceman]

My ''argument''? ''Justify my ''love''?

I didn't wrote the article. Ask Brent and Kyle. They will tell you I didn't wrote it. They did the 2 cards vs 2 cards comparison. Not me.

Ask THEM why they did that 2 cards against 2 cards review, and not 6990+6970 against 3 X 570. Why are you asking me that? I can't answer for them. THEY made that choice. Not me. I'm not a writer nor the owner of hardOCP. I think you are confusing things and people.

And read the conclusion. You should ask THEM to ''justify'' their love for the Tri-Fire 6990+6970 set-up. Not me. Because reading the conclusion, I think they really ''loved'' every seconds of it!

Change your tone, please. Behave yourself.

My comment has nothing to do with the review, but is instead referencing your posts on the board, both in this thread and in your previous thread. The tip-off there was the word "your" in my original post.

My point is that your argument (emphasis your) has been that 3 GPUs vs 2 doesn't matter as long as the price is the same. I pointed out that the price of 3 GTX 570s is about the same, and wondered what that comparison would look like - to which you replied, scandalized, that that would be comparing 3 cards to 2, as if that is somehow less acceptable than comparing 3 GPUs to 2.

I fully understand the trade-offs you would make in going to 3 cards, vice 2 - which I mentioned - but for some reason you felt the need to jump in and disparage a 3 card comparison.

I don't understand why you feel the need to so vehemently defend the 6990-6970 configuration - everyone agrees that it is a performance monster, but you seem to take it personally (maybe because you own one) when anyone dares to comment about it, or wonder about other combinations.

 

[summy]

My comment has nothing to do with the review, but is instead referencing your posts on the board, both in this thread and in your previous thread. The tip-off there was the word "your" in my original post.

My point is that your argument (emphasis your) has been that 3 GPUs vs 2 doesn't matter as long as the price is the same. I pointed out that the price of 3 GTX 570s is about the same, and wondered what that comparison would look like - to which you replied, scandalized, that that would be comparing 3 cards to 2, as if that is somehow less acceptable than comparing 3 GPUs to 2.

I fully understand the trade-offs you would make in going to 3 cards, vice 2 - which I mentioned - but for some reason you felt the need to jump in and disparage a 3 card comparison.

I don't understand why you feel the need to so vehemently defend the 6990-6970 configuration - everyone agrees that it is a performance monster, but you seem to take it personally (maybe because you own one) when anyone dares to comment about it, or wonder about other combinations.

stop trying to use logic with him, he doesn't seem to respond to it.. lol

it's been consistently pointed out to him that most people don't have issues with AMD being the clear performance for value winner at this time, but his general attitude over the whole situation... and as you pointed out, the hilarity of some of his posts. /ignore

 

[Grim Reaper]

My ''argument''? ''Justify my ''love''?

I didn't wrote the article. Ask Brent and Kyle. They will tell you I didn't wrote it. They did the 2 cards vs 2 cards comparison. Not me.

Ask THEM why they did that 2 cards against 2 cards review, and not 6990+6970 against 3 X 570. Why are you asking me that? I can't answer for them. THEY made that choice. Not me. I'm not a writer nor the owner of hardOCP. I think you are confusing things and people.

And read the conclusion. You should ask THEM to ''justify'' their love for the Tri-Fire 6990+6970 set-up. Not me. Because reading the conclusion, I think they really ''loved'' every seconds of it!

Change your tone, please. Behave yourself.

Being owner of HardOCP or a writer whether your name is Brent, Kyle, John, Mike... whatever doesn't mean anything. It's 3 GPU's Vs 2 GPU's, Sure for the price AMD wins if you only target $1000 budget, otherwise Tri-Fire Vs. Dual-SLI of the same generation is a laughable comparison at best.

You were daring people to come here and state this, well there you go, I'm sure it will not end up any better than before once the crybabies come out to whine again.

 

[SonDa5]

Cool configuration and review. Good looking numbers for the AMD cards. Looks like a winner for the money.

 

[FLCLimax]

nvidia still loses in 3v3 GPU's.

at tom's the 570 lost outright to the 6950

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/crossfire-sli-3-way-scaling,2865-12.html

at Anand the 580 3 way showed worse scaling and half the game tests lost out to 3 way 6970 CF.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4254/triplegpu-performance-multigpu-scaling-part1/1

Anand will follow up soon with surround/Eyefinity, which will go even more in AMD's favor. the review here gave the best case scenario for Nvidia because they gave results with less taxing settings than AMD. Anand will just bech 4x/8xetc and throw out numbers and AMD's will be higher.

the argument over fairness in regards to number of GPU's was ironically wrapped up BEFORE this review was put up. triple 69XX mop the 570 up and trade blows with 3x 580 at $500(plus the cost of the necessary higher power PSU) less..

 

[LEVESQUE]

Being owner of HardOCP or a writer whether your name is Brent, Kyle, John, Mike... whatever doesn't mean anything. It's 3 GPU's Vs 2 GPU's, Sure for the price AMD wins if you only target $1000 budget, otherwise Tri-Fire Vs. Dual-SLI of the same generation is a laughable comparison at best.
You were daring people to come here and state this, well there you go, I'm sure it will not end up any better than before once the crybabies come out to whine again.

Brent? Kyle? Did you knew you did a ''laughable comparison''? All those hours testing for nothing. Sad.

What do you say to that notorious flamer from OCN that just registered to start a flaming war? Just curious.

 

[Taldren]

I would really love to see 3x 6950's that have been bios modded to 6970. The performance/price ratio would go way up if it worked well.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Brent? Kyle? Did you knew you did a ''laughable comparison''? All those hours testing for nothing. Sad.

What do you say to that notorious flamer from OCN that just registered to start a flaming war? Just curious.

Not here to start a flame war at all, in fact I haven't said any thing that should start a flame war unless some hyper fanboy cheerleaders start getting all heated for nothing.... again.

 

[Vexerz]

nvidia still loses in 3v3 GPU's.

at tom's the 570 lost outright to the 6950

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/crossfire-sli-3-way-scaling,2865-12.html

at Anand the 580 3 way showed worse scaling and half the game tests lost out to 3 way 6970 CF.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4254/triplegpu-performance-multigpu-scaling-part1/1

Anand will follow up soon with surround/Eyefinity, which will go even more in AMD's favor. the review here gave the best case scenario for Nvidia because they gave results with less taxing settings than AMD. Anand will just bech 4x/8xetc and throw out numbers and AMD's will be higher.

the argument over fairness in regards to number of GPU's was ironically wrapped up BEFORE this review was put up. triple 69XX mop the 570 up and trade blows with 3x 580 at $500(plus the cost of the necessary higher power PSU) less..

Nice links. this is the second time those Tom's hardware links are being posted and people still keep ignoring and keep bringing up the 'but but if 3vs3 gpus 570s were tested" scenario to rebuttal the [H] review. Lol denial is funny.

 

[Yakk]

Nice links. this is the second time those Tom's hardware links are being posted and people still keep ignoring and keep bringing up the 'but but if 3vs3 gpus 570s were tested" scenario to rebuttal the [H] review. Lol denial is funny.

LOL... same goes for the 3GB 580 being better... [H] disproved the missing Vram theory with the AP-to-AP comparison, but doesn't seem to matter to some...

 

[Grim Reaper]

There is no denial at all, I perfectly accept it when it's the same number of GPU's against each other. From a complete price point of view, nothing is wrong with 3 Vs 2, but from a strictly performance point of view I like seeing the same number vs the same number of GPU's as well. It's a lot better to see both sides, no bias, no doubts = win.

 

[Yakk]

I would really love to see 3x 6950's that have been bios modded to 6970. The performance/price ratio would go way up if it worked well.

You can have 4x 6950 @ +/- $235 each for a total of $940 all four unlocked.

If you really wanted to compare....

 

[kllrnohj]

There is no denial at all, I perfectly accept it when it's the same number of GPU's against each other. From a complete price point of view, nothing is wrong with 3 Vs 2, but from a strictly performance point of view I like seeing the same number vs the same number of GPU's as well. It's a lot better to see both sides, no bias, no doubts = win.

That's a pointless comparison. AMD and Nvidia have different approaches. Ignoring those differences and focusing on something completely irrelevant is a waste of everyone's time.

2 cards vs. 2 cards at the same price point - [H]'s comparison is completely valid. ATI won, Nvidia lost. If you want to compare a different price point (or even just "the best I can possibly get"), that's fine, but that is a different eval for a different day (and/or different site)

 

[ivansoze1]

I wonder how this would change if they reviewed the 3gb versions of the gtx 580

yes, the Phantom

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193_1170&products_id=17016

it would make a measurable but methinks, still not lead winning improvement. The 1 thing not mentioned is 3D, or more accurately, stereoscopic - it would only make sense to assume if you have 3 monitors and SLI and are in Nv camp, or even a fanboi god-forbid, you have 120hz 3d monitors and an Nv 3d kit. I have to be honest, I rarely use my single monitor 3d as even with a 580, GPU is still underpowered for long sessions of jerkfree gaming. But it does have a big WOOHOO factor, first few times you see it and for some it's just plain addictive.
Sorry, back OT - great review, the 6990/6970 setup is a f/n beauty, way to show NV how they have dropped the ball on multi-gpu and pricing - HEY NV(or any1?), can I buy a 590 and do tri-sli with a 580??....

 

[ivansoze1]

That's a pointless comparison. AMD and Nvidia have different approaches. Ignoring those differences and focusing on something completely irrelevant is a waste of everyone's time.

2 cards vs. 2 cards at the same price point - [H]'s comparison is completely valid. ATI won, Nvidia lost. If you want to compare a different price point (or even just "the best I can possibly get"), that's fine, but that is a different eval for a different day (and/or different site)

it's about the $$$, everything is now, NV and AMD are in it for the $$$, so it makes $$$ THE perfect reference...

 

[FLCLimax]

even with the 3GB 580 AMD would win.

the major difference shown by the 2GB VRAM for AMD is the higher possible 3D settings. the scaling makes a BIG difference. when you compare AMD to nvidia at the same lowered settings the gap widens in AMD's favor, so all the Phantom would allow is for the Nvidia card to enable higher 3D settings, bringing the frame rate down.

 

[FLCLimax]

can I buy a 590 and do tri-sli with a 580??

i heard you can't do that.

 

[Grim Reaper]

That's a pointless comparison. AMD and Nvidia have different approaches. Ignoring those differences and focusing on something completely irrelevant is a waste of everyone's time.

2 cards vs. 2 cards at the same price point - [H]'s comparison is completely valid. ATI won, Nvidia lost. If you want to compare a different price point (or even just "the best I can possibly get"), that's fine, but that is a different eval for a different day (and/or different site)

I never said the comparison was invalid, I agree with the price point view. I don't agree with Tri-Fire Vs Dual-SLI though, as I said that's just not an equal comparison from a strictly performance point of view. I know that has nothing to do with price and I never said it did.

 

[kllrnohj]

as I said that's just not an equal comparison from a strictly performance point of view.

I really have no idea what you mean by "strictly performance point of view", that doesn't make any sense. You setup the test, THEN you find out the performance - there has to be some criteria for the test. If you are after maximum performance, than it would be quad-fire vs. quad-sli (or maybe tri-sli 590 3GB) - which this test has nothing to do with.

 

[Flyinfinni]

I never said the comparison was invalid, I agree with the price point view. I don't agree with Tri-Fire Vs Dual-SLI though, as I said that's just not an equal comparison from a strictly performance point of view. I know that has nothing to do with price and I never said it did.

2 cards vs. 2 cards. $1000 vs. $1000. 800W vs. 800W. Every way you look at this, its a perfect comparison. Heck- the POWER USAGE is almost identical! The one and only difference is that one of them has 2 single GPU cards and the other has a double and a single gpu. Who gives a crap about the # of GPU's on the boards? Its a simple matter of taking the same money, the same form factor and the same power requirements and comparing them.

 

[Mad Cat]

I was going to reply to Grim's postings about 2 GPUs versus 3, but Flyinfinni said it perfectly. I'd just like to add that complaining about the number of GPUs being used is like complaining about CPU cores. Quad core, hexa core, quad with four logical cores - who cares? I want to know which CPU performs the tasks I need it to the best. Complaining that a 2 nVidia GPUs lose to 3 AMD GPUs is like complaining that a quad core loses to a lower clocked hexa core. There's no merit to it.

On a side note, if you guys skipped the "Test Setup" section, I suggest you reread it. The snide remark about using up-to-date drivers is completely worth it.

 

[§kynet]

And that is why it absolutely makes no sense to make comparisons at lower resolutions or single displays with a 3-GPU setup. When you see others results out there, testing at single displays, and low resolutions, keep in mind you are probably seeing a lot of CPU bound data, and in that regard, it can be very misleading as to the real performance compared and delivered from these multi-GPU setups. So keep that in mind when reading other reviews.

I question the integrity, or at least the IQ, of sites that would test such a system using a single monitor. It makes NO sense. But I see it all the time.

 

[XacTactX]

2 cards vs. 2 cards. $1000 vs. $1000. 800W vs. 800W. Every way you look at this, its a perfect comparison. Heck- the POWER USAGE is almost identical! The one and only difference is that one of them has 2 single GPU cards and the other has a double and a single gpu. Who gives a crap about the # of GPU's on the boards? Its a simple matter of taking the same money, the same form factor and the same power requirements and comparing them.

Building on this, something that's happening in this generation and recently, which didn't happen before, is that scaling is getting so good that it 'how many GPUs?' doesn't matter that much anymore. Pool three 6970s, and you have almost 3x a single 6970. Pool two 580s, and you have almost 2x a single 580. The real question is: how much performance can I get for x $?' and the answer is in the figures.

 

[AtkinS]

I never said the comparison was invalid, I agree with the price point view. I don't agree with Tri-Fire Vs Dual-SLI though, as I said that's just not an equal comparison from a strictly performance point of view. I know that has nothing to do with price and I never said it did.

that doesnt make sense...
all the other points people have made and the fact that amd clearly have stated THIS.

All AMD's design are moving towards the "lego" design, meaning the chips will have modules, that is easy to put together for smaller and larger chips.
make no huge chips, just use two of them, and amd didnt see it being impossible using 8.
chips once the technology allows vram to be shared between cores.

This is a statement from 4-5 years ago, from their engineers,

should we say, we can't compare HD6970 to GTX580 because one is twice the die size than the other.
or power envelope... GTX480 could not be tested against any other card then.
this is just like saying can't test 2vs3 gpu's

Hardocp, you cant use GTX580 and 6970 in same review.
Use GTX560 TI (330mm^2) and HD6970 (389 mm^2) since that is the closest card.
see, that didnt make sense either ;P well amd and nvidia prolly thinks mm^2

 

[chithanh]

I have no hard data to back this up, but I imagine that purchasing decisions will be made like this:

I care about gaming performance.
I have x $ to spend on graphics cards
I have y PCIe slots for SLI/CF
I have a z W PSU

This awesome review answered the question for x=1000 y=2 z=1000+
If you modify the parameters (e.g. you have mobo/case/PSU that allow 3 cards) then other configurations come into consideration which are not covered by this review.

 

[Tricky]

Now only if ATI/AMD could do 3d Surround. It would be my next buy for sure, but they don't so it won't

 

[Grim Reaper]

2 cards vs. 2 cards. $1000 vs. $1000. 800W vs. 800W. Every way you look at this, its a perfect comparison. Heck- the POWER USAGE is almost identical! The one and only difference is that one of them has 2 single GPU cards and the other has a double and a single gpu. Who gives a crap about the # of GPU's on the boards? Its a simple matter of taking the same money, the same form factor and the same power requirements and comparing them.

that doesnt make sense...
all the other points people have made and the fact that amd clearly have stated THIS.

All AMD's design are moving towards the "lego" design, meaning the chips will have modules, that is easy to put together for smaller and larger chips.
make no huge chips, just use two of them, and amd didnt see it being impossible using 8.
chips once the technology allows vram to be shared between cores.

This is a statement from 4-5 years ago, from their engineers,

should we say, we can't compare HD6970 to GTX580 because one is twice the die size than the other.
or power envelope... GTX480 could not be tested against any other card then.
this is just like saying can't test 2vs3 gpu's

Hardocp, you cant use GTX580 and 6970 in same review.
Use GTX560 TI (330mm^2) and HD6970 (389 mm^2) since that is the closest card.
see, that didnt make sense either ;P well amd and nvidia prolly thinks mm^2

It's still Tri-Fire Vs Dual-SLI, you can't call that a completely fair comparison in that respect. For price, the argument is fine, but it is still Tri against Dual.

 

[Flyinfinni]

It's still Tri-Fire Vs Dual-SLI, you can't call that a completely fair comparison in that respect. For price, the argument is fine, but it is still Tri against Dual.

There is nothing unfair about it. Now- if Nvidia supported SLI with a 590 and a 570 for $1000, then that might be a better comparison, but they dont. Who really gives a crap whether its 2 or 3 GPUs? Read my previous post- the 2 setups are identical in price, mobo requirements and power requirements. The only way this is "Not fair" is if you are an Nvidia fanboy who is hurt because the 580 SLI get Pwned. Get over it. This is as fair as a comparison can get.

 

[FrgMstr]

It's still Tri-Fire Vs Dual-SLI, you can't call that a completely fair comparison in that respect. For price, the argument is fine, but it is still Tri against Dual.

Heard you the first time. ALL OF YOU. For or against.

We laid our logic out very well on the first page, if you don't agree with it fine. We did not force you to read beyond that page. But we got your feelings the first time, please drop it. YOUR THOUGHTS ARE NOTED.

It is a value based comparison. $1K vs $1K.

 

[BababooeyHTJ]

If anything it's makes it more impressive that tri-fire scales so well. In eyefinity at least.