AMD Presents New Horizon

Discussion in 'AMD Processors' started by HardOCP News, Dec 13, 2016.

  1. kac77

    kac77 2[H]4U

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    ??? That's all they have been talking about since Bulldozer flopped. Mention of IPC is in all of their material and it's mentioned in the video. Hell we have people here who have tested using BD. Those scores ain't even close.
     
  2. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    On my fresh install of Blender 2.78a the default samples was set to 200.
     
  3. noko

    noko [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yep but not sure if AMD has any compiler to optimize for Zen, hmmmm maybe unoptimized Blender for Zen and Intel :(
     
  4. noko

    noko [H]ardness Supreme

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    with 128 samples I get 00:42.17. So my I7 6700K at 4.6ghz is almost as fast as Zen?
     
  5. bpizzle1

    bpizzle1 2[H]4U

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    The live demo was actually 10s SLOWER, so the cache thing doesn't apply since that was speeding it up slightly.
     
  6. Criticalhitkoala

    Criticalhitkoala [H]ard|Gawd

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    So I dropped it to 100 samples like some people suggested. 20.86 seconds on a 5960x at 4.2
     
  7. Rvenger

    Rvenger [H]ard|Gawd

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    Take your 5960x to a fixed 3.4ghz and report back if you can. Good info!
     
  8. billabong132

    billabong132 Gawd

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    ne
    amd's test didn't have the intel cpu at fixed clock
     
  9. Rvenger

    Rvenger [H]ard|Gawd

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    Its a 5960x he has, not a 6900k. I am trying to get an idea of IPC vs Haswell.
     
  10. Criticalhitkoala

    Criticalhitkoala [H]ard|Gawd

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    Sure, here you go

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Gigantopithecus

    Gigantopithecus [H]ardOCP Case Reviewer

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    This thread appears to have devolved into page after page of people trying to recreate dozens of unknown variables to reproduce a benchmark that is, at best, of limited value.
     
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  12. Criticalhitkoala

    Criticalhitkoala [H]ard|Gawd

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    I don't know. It think it helps put amd in check through verification or validation. They have a history of cherry picking things while making boisterous claims that later get proven to be cherry picked and wrong. I find it kinda fun and also hope they are telling the truth this time.
     
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  13. Gigantopithecus

    Gigantopithecus [H]ardOCP Case Reviewer

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    I agree - replicability is a key component of research - but when you clearly can't replicate a process, then you already know what you need to know. We won't know for certain until Kyle and others have thorough reviews up, but nothing in yesterday's presentation makes me think Zen is a flop.
     
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  14. Mohonri

    Mohonri [H]ardness Supreme

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    i5-3320M @ 2.6GHz: 200 samples: 4:40 100 samples: 2:46

    I could get on board with that :)
     
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  15. HoffY

    HoffY Gawd

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    its probably just different setting sin Blender thats causing the variations. Render programs (as a few on here will know i'm sure) have a MILLION settings that can make differences so i'm guessing this is what it will be (as evidenced by the 100 samples setting alone and the difference it makes). I'd say there are other settings that aren't exactly the same OOTB and thats causing the discrepancies.
     
  16. Junkboy

    Junkboy [H]Lite

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    Folks just need to wait it out till some of these eventually leak out or they release. People will be able to run test and real comparison soon enough and CES isn't that far so even more info will come out then. (says the person who ran the same blender benchmark on his chip to see how it stacks up) xD

    Regardless, I'm just glad such positivity and excitement are surrounding an AMD CPU even with the skepticism some seem to have (which after Bulldoze is quite understandable). Real competition is always best for us the consumers!!
     
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  17. oldschool_7522

    oldschool_7522 n00b

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    Work Laptop intel 3380m
    upload_2016-12-14_9-56-21.png
     
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  18. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that maybe AMD doesn't know what to do when they have better performance anymore. :D
     
  19. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    Currently the entire demo have been a replica of the FX unfortunately. Hopefully the product isn't acting like the FX. But we have to see with time.
     
  20. fingerbob69

    fingerbob69 [H]Lite

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    pgaster has linked to the system specs above

    https://i.redd.it/r39v4xwzre3y.jpg

    AMD should be more than happy to provide the Blender settings use, reply awaited ...then run then the test. Should get the same results, right?

    Just so far reading this thread no one has actually done that, same chip, mobo etc Til then shouldn't all conspiracy theories/moral outrage stay canned?
     
  21. Monkey God

    Monkey God Mangina Full of Sand

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    But would people talk/argue about?
     
  22. Rvenger

    Rvenger [H]ard|Gawd

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    If it is 100 samples it appears that Ryzen will have IPC similar to Ivybridge. (Probably depending on workload)
     
  23. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I agree that the tests need to be replicable.

    Why on earth would AMD post the file and invite people to test on their own, and then not share the settings used? At best this is just pure incompetence, and at worst it is intentionally misleading.

    The problem is - however - that we are just grasping at straws and guessing at what settings they might have used. That is never going to result in any kind of adequate outcome.
     
  24. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yep, we have to wait and see what AMD does. Either answers with details or silence.
     
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  25. buttons

    buttons [H]ard|Gawd

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    I am upset that they did not share details for us to replicate the handbrake / blender settings on our own systems -- but i have to assume they would not be so foolish to run the benchmark side by side with a 6900k without using the exact same settings. So what i can do is take my benchmark and compare it with kyles 6950k with two cores disabled test and get a general idea where i sit.... which besides a couple laptops posted is back of the pack :)

    This thread has inspired me to get back into overclocking though, which is nice. I may have to swap the cooler on my 8320e and see what i can squeeze out of it.
     
  26. Rvenger

    Rvenger [H]ard|Gawd

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    I am going to report on my 6800k with 100 samples when I get home. See where this comes in line with Ryzen. I bet the 6800k @ 4ghz is equal or faster.
     
  27. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    And I usually would not even try to replicate results until we were invited to by the CEO of AMD and the given the file to do it.

    Thanks for the rest of your incredible insight.
     
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  28. Gideon

    Gideon 2[H]4U

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    Likely issue is one department did not know they changed the base settings on blender. A common issue in a big corporation is one department does not quite get all the info it should. But all in house benchmarks should be taken with a bit of skepticism on how it will relate in real world reviews. They usually give you a decent idea of how close they really are, but I am more surprised by the fact the AMD cpu was using less power than the Intel cpu.
     
  29. Schmave

    Schmave [H]ard|Gawd

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    I think we all know that AMD's marketing department is pretty much incompetent, so I don't think they were intentionally misleading anyone. Hopefully they get back to Kyle with the settings they used for the demo so everyone can stop whipping themselves up into a frenzy.
     
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  30. oldschool_7522

    oldschool_7522 n00b

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    Ok, Im' kinda a Blender noob. How do you switch the sample from 200 to 100?
     
  31. Spirit_Retro

    Spirit_Retro Limp Gawd

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    Ok.. so how many instructions per clock cycle does bulldozer do?
     
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  32. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    yeah I don't think "platfrom" was intentional either!

    edit: lol I just had to "correct" that as the forum spell checker auto-corrected it for me.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2016
  33. Gasaraki_

    Gasaraki_ Gawd

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    The problem is that it still doesn't match up. If you set it to 100, then the i7 in the demo is too slow. It should have done that demo in the 20s secs not the 30s like in the demo.
     
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  34. Gasaraki_

    Gasaraki_ Gawd

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    That just fuckin' shows that AMD doesn't know how to build a quad-channel Intel machine. You actually need 4 sticks of RAM to get quad-channel...
     
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  35. Gasaraki_

    Gasaraki_ Gawd

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    I wouldn't call it a flop, just that something is fishy. It's probably a decent processor.
     
  36. joseardzm

    joseardzm Limp Gawd

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    hahaha im kinda dyslexic so i didnt catch it lol
     
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  37. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    so after seeing the 200 vs 100 thing I tried it and got:

    32bit at 100

    100 32.PNG

    64bit at 100

    100 64.PNG

    and that is almost exactly half of my 200 run scores. still no idea why my 64bit is so slow...
     
  38. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Even for the non dyslexic our brains have sort of an "autocorrect" feature to help us make sense of the world, so when reading it is easy to miss typos.

    This is why proof reading is such a difficult task. It goes counter to the basics of how our brains work.

    This is also why you can never trust your own brain. It is biased six ways to Sunday and works to help us delude ourselves.

    The smartest people out there are the ones who know to not trust their own brains and design things around then to work around the limitations of the human brain and bias.
     
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  39. muxr

    muxr Limp Gawd

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    Serious question though, if anyone knows the answer, how much benefit would quad channel provide over dual channel in Handbrake/Blender scenarios?

    Actually, nevermind, it turns out not much in CPU heavy tasks: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2982...ing-truth-about-their-performance.html?page=2
     
  40. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    I think it's best to take a wait and see approach to making any decisions about Ryzen. AMD has a long history of being deceptive when it comes to benchmark scores. AMD said that Ryzen has a 40% IPC improvement compared to Excavator. AMD has said similar things in the past comparing previous processor architectures to their predecessors or comparing them to Intel CPUs. These statements have always been untrue outside of very specific circumstances. In the Horizon event video it was said that AMD actually exceeded their 40% IPC goal which would potentially place it closer to Haswell than Ivy Bridge as originally thought. Unfortunately, given AMD's past statements this could mean that the 40%+ improvement is a best case scenario that will only show up in one or two benchmarks. This isn't necessarily the end of the world if Ryzen clocks high enough but exaggerated IPC means that those clocks will need to be even higher to overcome that deficiency.

    It seems to me that what we've seen is carefully cherry picked to show Ryzen in the best light possible. This is par for the course with AMD as its something they've done time and time again. They do it with CPUs and GPU's alike. On the surface its easy to conclude that AMD is up to its old tricks and that Ryzen could easily be another Bulldozer. On the other hand, the one thing that's changed is AMD's ability to keep secrets better than they once did. Given that, AMD could have more up their sleeves (example: Ryzen clocking 1GHz+ over stock, hex core models with substantially higher clocks etc.) than we know but that's not a horse I'd want to bet on. Fortunately, anyone with a Sandy Bridge or newer system probably isn't hurting and just wants to upgrade. It doesn't hurt to wait and see what Ryzen offers when reviewers actually get them on the bench and spend time with real CPUs. As long as the damn thing doesn't run as hot as Chernobyl, it could be a winner if the thing is capable of clocking high enough. High temperatures don't necessarily stop enthusiasts anymore than higher power requirements. On that front, a 5960X or 6900K both have a TDP of 140Watts and still clock well enough.

    The 5960X only has a base frequency of 3.0GHz (3.5GHz) via turbo. 3.4GHz on Ryzen isn't that far off and it wouldn't be that far behind in terms of IPC assuming AMD's statements about IPC can be taken at face value. Granted the newer Broadwell-E CPUs are somewhat faster but don't usually clock as well as Haswell-E does making the difference almost a wash. We can get 5960X's to 4.3-4.5GHz on modest AIO / water cooling configurations so its not unimaginable that Ryzen could do the same. If you can get that kind of performance for the right price, I'd say its a winner provided the X370 platform is good enough. Unfortunately, what little we've seen on that (if true) isn't terribly encouraging. I think AMD really needs a platform for Ryzen that at least equals X99 if not its successor at a reduced price. That alone could drive some people into the AMD camp. If Ryzen is a winner in some of the applications that justify the extra cores of Intel's HEDT platform, it could be a nice low cost alternative. Again the motherboard platform has to be there for it.

    I have to ask: If AMD really did do something so stupid, does it really seem impossible or improbable that AMD did other things to hamper the Intel machine to make Ryzen look better? Again AMD has a track record of skewing test results to make themselves look better. I understand they need to generate some hype and some sales but AMD has to be careful as pulling shit like that can backfire on them quickly.
     
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