AMD drops Threadripper3 from latest roadmap-Tom's

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by gigaxtreme1, May 4, 2019.

  1. gigaxtreme1

    gigaxtreme1 2[H]4U

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  2. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Or, maybe they are starting to question the need for Threadripper in a world where Ryzen is rumored to come with up to 16C/32T and has 40 PCIe lanes off the chipset?
     
  3. gigaxtreme1

    gigaxtreme1 2[H]4U

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    May you live in interesting times.
     
  4. sabrewolf732

    sabrewolf732 2[H]4U

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    yeah a bit redundant with a 16c ryzen available.
     
  5. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Yeah, so if rumors are true, in a world with 16C Ryzen and 40 chipset PCIe lanes, you are paying a lot more for really only two benefitsd I can think of:

    - 64 dedicated CPU PcIe lanes (vs 28 CPU dedicated + 40 on Chipset)
    - Quad Channel RAM.

    That's pretty much it.

    Certainly worth it to some, but I wonder if AMD is starting to question how many.
     
  6. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

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    Ryzen 9 might max out at 12-cores
     
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  7. gigaxtreme1

    gigaxtreme1 2[H]4U

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    About time for a new chipset for the platform. Considering the memory bandwidth you gain from the platform it still has it's niche. They're not ready to expand on that yet. Hey, it might jump up to Zen 3 on 7nm EUV. Color me intrigued.
     
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  8. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

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    AMD likely just don’t have enough dies in the near future.
     
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  9. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

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    They might phase it out in favor of Epyc, since they already have a couple high clocked chips available. More overlap with Epyc and TR than AM4 and TR, imho.
     
  10. odditory

    odditory [H]ardness Supreme

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    We likely just don't have enough AMD rumors and need moar.

    Seriously, these are getting to be dull as death
     
  11. gigaxtreme1

    gigaxtreme1 2[H]4U

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    Profitability is in the volume and margin. Simplifying the lineup might be the way to go, but we don't know, yet. i can see up to 12 cores/24T at launch to use slightly marginal dies on 2 chiplet packages, then pull out the high bine stock for lineup refresh to goose the market.
     
  12. KarsusTG

    KarsusTG 2[H]4U

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    I really wouldn't mind a 64c/128t 3.xghz workstation. Certainly reduce my render times...
     
  13. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    A 12 - 16 core threadripper makes zero sense if they have a 16 core ryzen possibly with higher clocks even. As Intel learned the hard way with the 7640x and 7740x. But Threadripper would still make sense with 24 to 64 cores.
     
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  14. Elf_Boy

    Elf_Boy 2[H]4U

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    I wonder if an older ryzen in a x570 board will get all those pcie lanes?
     
  15. Grimlaking

    Grimlaking 2[H]4U

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    I'm betting that Threadripper 3 is being dropped for a new name to reflect the re work in the technology. Also I am thinking that we will see a new chipset for the new generation of CPU's will be needed to fully unlock them.

    But that's just me.
     
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  16. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    It could very well go that way if the rumors are true. I could see a 24+ core Threadripper being the new minimum for that platform.
     
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  17. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Probably, yes, but they would be bandwidth starved.

    The chipset lanes share the bandwidth of the uplink lanes between the CPU and the chipset. With an older Ryzen you would be on gen3, and not be able to take advantage of gen 4.

    So, you'd have a whole lot of lanes, limited by their upstream bandwidth to the CPU.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  18. LurkerLito

    LurkerLito 2[H]4U

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    I would be pretty upset with AMD if TR3 doesn't show. I definitely want to just drop in the third gen version TR chip into my current system. I bought my 1950x with expectations that I would be able to do that to at least the third generation chip so I was planning to buy one.
     
  19. DogsofJune

    DogsofJune 2[H]4U

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    It's not so bad, If the TR line goes away, it'll appear in some other form.
    My Threadrippers will provide plenty of productivity for a good many years, and then there will be more options.
     
  20. sirmonkey1985

    sirmonkey1985 [H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010

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    given their move to add the WX to the 2990 and 2970 i wouldn't be surprised either if threadripper gets rebranded.. given they're basically using server grade chips marketing it as a work station processor instead of "threadripper" would probably sell better at least on a professional level. still think threadripper was a cool name and a good way to bring their version of HEDT to the market, but now it's time to actually get serious about it.

    so you have base Ryzen for am4, Ryzen WX for TR, Ryzen Epyc for server grade.. also the name would be shorter than putting "Ryzen Threadripper" on everything. that's just my theory at least.. we'll probably learn more about it in 2 weeks though.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
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  21. DogsofJune

    DogsofJune 2[H]4U

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    Kinda my thought on it as well. Looking forward to the next line of goodies they have in it's place
     
  22. dgz

    dgz [H]ardness Supreme

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    I was also thinking a rebrand as they have made commitments to the platform, no? I know they're not legally bound to end users but don't think they would pull such a thing. Not in their position.
     
  23. sirmonkey1985

    sirmonkey1985 [H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010

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    the original TR was sort of a test and had no plans on continuing it after first gen from what i understand but given how successful it was they continued it with zen+. maybe now they've realized there's a market there and the name no longer fits what they want to market? hard to say.
     
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  24. Tengis

    Tengis [H]ardness Supreme

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    Real talk: why does everyone talk about PCIE lanes when talking about Ryzen/Threadripper like it is a must have? A LOT of people Ive seen running the systems talked about here are running pretty basic setups with one video card, a couple hard drives, etc.

    What is the real world benefit of having 40,000 PCIE lanes vs enough to cover what you actually NEED?
     
  25. sirmonkey1985

    sirmonkey1985 [H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010

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    some of us are lazy and forget to update our signatures. :) i think the big thing is that with NVME and pcie m.2 drives finally becoming more affordable the need for PCIe lanes is starting to actually matter. but of course that'll always be a niche market since the general public wouldn't know the difference if you told them anyways.
     
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  26. Oldmodder

    Oldmodder Gawd

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    Well the rippers have lots of real estate and making them with as little as 8 cores always perplexed me.
    Maybe we will see a 64/128 core threadripper now.
     
  27. KATEKATEKATE

    KATEKATEKATE Limp Gawd

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    I think it would please a lot of content creators/engineers/coders if AMD would extend the Epyc platform into workstations, perhaps instead of continuing the Threadripper platform.

    The complaints I've heard come up often re: Epyc and TR4 are that the Threadripper platform is perhaps excessively prosumer/gamer-focused in the sense that there is a lack of "serious" motherboards for people who just want a solid, boring workstation with features like IPMI and explicit ECC support without flashy board designs and RGB LEDs etc.
    And on the other extreme, folks have found the Epyc platform lacking for workstation use because the chips have very low clocks compared to TR/Xeon and the boards are more expensive, harder to source, and very much aimed at the datacenter and not the desk feature-wise.

    If AMD were to release 12C & 16C Ryzen 9 parts on AM4, and high-clocked 16/24/32C Epyc parts on SP3 along with encouraging partners to offer more explicitly-workstation-oriented SP3 boards, I don't think anyone would miss Threadripper other than the folks who are already on the platform.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
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  28. /dev/null

    /dev/null [H]ardForum Junkie

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    They will get the chipset lanes, but not the ones on the cpu.;
     
  29. /dev/null

    /dev/null [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Using NVME drives instead of SATA as the reach price point parity.
     
  30. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The integrated nic usb and sata controllers already use a few pcie lanes. Add two GPUs, two M.2 NVME SSDs. And you're already well over 40.
     
  31. Sulphademus

    Sulphademus Limp Gawd

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    I have some servers to replace next year and specifically asked the AMD guys at last year's Ignite to please release some "speed optimized" Epycs. There is a need for 16/24 core parts at 3 GHz sitting between the Ryzen 8c at 4 GHz and the Epyc 32c at 2GHz parts.
     
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  32. jardows

    jardows [H]ard|Gawd

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    My sentiments exactly. TR was really an afterthought, a "why not?" product that happened to do very well in both performance and sales. Take the base product, invest some serious resources into developing, and come out with a proper Workstation CPU sitting between Ryzen and Epyc, with a rebrand and more serious ecosystem. Makes sense to me.
     
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  33. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    What have you heard about the lanes on the CPU?

    I've been operating under the assumption that the new 7nm CPU's have the same same 28 lanes as previous Ryzen's, just Gen 4 instead of Gen 3.

    I'm basing this off of the fact that adding lanes requires more CPU pins, and they are using the same socket, so the number of lanes can't have changed, unless they had unused pins previously.

    Previous Ryzens had 28 lanes total, with 4x of them being dedicated to chipset uplink, leaving 24 direct to CPU lanes available for use. In 99.99% of applications this meant 16x for the GPU, and 8x for something else (PCIe Slot? M.2 Port? etc) and maybe some extra lanes coming off the chipset.

    It will be interesting to see how many of what I am assuming are the 28 CPU lanes they will use as CPU uplink lanes this time around. If you have 40 chipset lanes it seems nuts to have all those lanes share 4x uplink lanes to the CPU, even if those lanes are Gen4 thus doubling the bandwidth of the previous design. I'm betting they've upped the number of uplink lanes tot he chipset. Maybe to 8x? This leaves 16x GPU + 4x m.2(?) direct to the CPU, plus whatever lanes coming off of the chipset sharing the bandwidth of a much more reasonable 8x Gen4.

    I have no internal AMD insight, but this makes sense to me, whereas having 40x lanes share the bandwidth of 4x uplink lanes absolutely does not.
     
  34. DeChache

    DeChache The ONE - Your Ignorance Annoys Me

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    Well that would suck. I'm planning on building a new workstation this summer/fall with TR3 if its not a product Cascade Lake X it is.

    Though I tend to agree with the thinking above that it will be a rebrand and more Workstation Focused than gamer focused. Which is fine with me. I want a workstation I'll do something else for a game rig.
     
  35. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Again, if Ryzen has 16 cores and 40 PCIe lanes off of the chipset, what benefit does Threadripper still provide? How much money is quad channel RAM worth to you?

    By the sounds of it, Ryzen IS the new AMD HEDT platform.

    On a side note, can anyone tell me what the T in HEDT stands for?
     
  36. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    Top.

    High-End Desktop.
     
  37. jrobdog

    jrobdog Limp Gawd

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    This is disappointing to me. My dream was that new TR would have been the beastly VM and homelab system it ought to be.

    With removing NUMA by using the central IO die as hub, it seems like the perfect next iteration for the platform.

    Maybe it was too good, providing competition to the server market.
     
  38. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    High End Desktop Top?

    Sounds like one of these.
     
  39. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    Intel came up with the naming so it being weird is on them.
     
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  40. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    Intel not only came up with the name, but they've functionally created the concept and platform around 1995 with the Pentium Pro. It was a similar dynamic between it and the standard Pentium back in the day as we have between LGA 1151 CPU's and their LGA 2066 counterparts.