AMD Announces Ryzen 7 3700X, 3800X and Ryzen 9 3900X

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Pieter3dnow, May 27, 2019.

  1. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    8,833
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    IPC was already about the same with Ryzen 2000 series when they are both clocked at 4GHz.

    It was really only gaming that Intel still had an advantage when equally clocked. That might be more to do with some oddity of cache layout/interaction.
     
  2. travm

    travm Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    301
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    I figured it had to do with the way the ccx modules passed data around and the relatively high latency involved. From a technical standpoint I think that is something z3 brings as an improvement, even if it is just allowing the memory to work on a divider. Hopefully they can speed up the Infinity fabric. Reviews are needed.
     
  3. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,432
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    We still don't know what inter-core (and inter-CCX and inter-die) latency looks like, but the screenshot of the memory latency looks exceedingly promising vs. what we were seeing with Zen and Zen+. That goes a long way toward easing the concerns around AMD separating all of the CPU cores from the memory controller.

    [also, that was at DDR4-4000 and CAS18; while I'd expect latency to step down linearly when less boutique memory is used, that does need to be tested too- the more common DDR4-3000 CAS15 and DDR4-3200 CAS16 stuff needs to work well too]
     
    ZeroBarrier and odditory like this.
  4. Taldren

    Taldren Gawd

    Messages:
    521
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Seems it is being said at chiphell that the AMD Ryzen 3000 series OC frequency limit is ~5GHz.
    They report that 4.8 GHz all core is achievable.
    5.0 GHz single core is doable, but its a challenge.
    5.0 GHz all core is pretty much a no-go.
    1.35V for all core 4.5GHz
    4.4GHz performs similar to a 5GHz 9900k in Cinebench.
     
    N4CR likes this.
  5. Zuul

    Zuul Gawd

    Messages:
    838
    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    member when intel said 10GHz...i member...maybe incorrectly
     
    blkt, tunatime, Joseph F and 2 others like this.
  6. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,717
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    Rotary is the shizniz but yes no 182db, even SPL comp cars struggle for that.
    I designed a single 21" housing that can get down to 8Hz with a maelstrom X-21.. just. 64' organ pipes are the lowest instrument I'm aware of.

    Pretty reputable people analysed that and said fake due to CPU string and a few other irregularities.

    I think latency will be pretty similar to Zen+, which at same frequency ram as Intel, is same or lower latency under 8 threads. Intels' only advantage is IMC/memory speed when ramped up. AMD just needs better memory controller with Zen2.
     
    Darth Kyrie and IdiotInCharge like this.
  7. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,432
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    Here's hoping that they have it; while Zen2 may still benefit from more exotic memory, it would be nice to see most of its performance unlocked with more pedestrian RAM.
     
    drescherjm and N4CR like this.
  8. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,498
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2016
    Where I live offsetting better ram for say cooling is something I am happy to do. Example

    A Corsair H100i RGB is 2.3K where I am while Trident Z RGB 3200 16GB kit is 2K, since I know AMD cooling solutions are good out the box I can offset costs of cooling for better RAM in my upcoming ITX build.

    Just for the lol H115i is 2.5k so I guess exotic is cooling

    A R7 2700 is 4.3K the i9 9900K is 9K now but its on special, normal price is 11K. Intel has almost nothing to value prop me with.
     
  9. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,432
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    While I wouldn't hesitate to do this running an mATX system or larger at stock... in mITX I'd be worried about suffocating the stock cooler with lack of airflow, which the AIO takes care of.

    And if going mITX, in general, it's worth getting the right parts. You're already making compromises.
     
  10. alxlwson

    alxlwson You Know Where I Live

    Messages:
    5,873
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013

    What kind of rediculous pumped up currency is that?!
     
  11. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,498
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2016
    Hyper inflation and import taxations. We are trading around 14.30 to the dollar
     
    alxlwson likes this.
  12. OrangeKhrush

    OrangeKhrush [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,498
    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2016
    I have good exhaust fans, built a 2600 ITX build with no heat issues, that rig I subsequently sold as I relocated for a substantially higher career move. I think the 5960X is far hotter and it has cooling.
     
  13. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    17,541
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Maybe. The Reddit source for the shoddily written WCCF article can't agree on exactly what was said. So that might be the case, might not be. They can't even agree if the poster is talking about all 3000 chips or one specific model.
     
  14. Silentbob343

    Silentbob343 [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,754
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
  15. Mode13

    Mode13 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    502
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2018
    Any expectations from those more fluent with Ryzen as to which memory speed/timing one would aim for "optimally" with the upcoming Ryzen chips? Primary concern there will be games and hopefully lasting for 3-5 years. I'm told DDR4 3200 (no timings given) was the sweet spot for the 2700x.

    All of my non gaming compute loads (compiling, rendering, etc) will be done on a TR4 machine, so I'm strictly talking games.

    I'm just going over ballpark pricing so I can get the cash together while we're still over a month out, thus avoiding any pans hitting me in the head from certain feline cohabitants.


    As for inter ccx communications, maybe there will be some sort of "l4" buffer on the IMC to help reduce the amount of misses going through all the cores? Just thinking out loud, I don't know this architecture.
     
  16. Snowdog

    Snowdog [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    8,833
    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    I also thought there would be L4 cache on the I/O chip, but I think we would have heard about it by now if it existed.
     
    N4CR likes this.
  17. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,717
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    Well I got the core speed bang on in early predictions quite far out (simple just look at TSMC speed predictions and they were right on the money) so I'll take a crack at RAM for you.

    Considering Zen+ runs no problems on default settings at 3200, with Zen 2 showing bios support for over 4000MHz, I would guess something in the 3600 range as a 'upper base ram speed' and 4k pushing it. 4400 or whatever was shown recently I doubt it without serious tweaking, memory controller killing voltage or lax timings. Other thing to realise is AMD will make the platform for common ram speeds not exotic speeds and 3600 is widely available and cheap.

    There is no info on an L4 or similar on the chipset. It is huge though.. biggest thing to consider is the L3 cache is doubled for now.
     
    Mode13 likes this.
  18. Nobu

    Nobu 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,031
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    3200 is supposed to be the default on zen3, iirc, from the horse's mouth. Higher will of course depend on the specific kit, and I expect unsupported memory to drop to jedec standard but still work (or else Imma be very disappoint).
     
  19. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,717
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    Thanks Nobu, I missed they said 3200. But would expect that to be minimum because Zen+ almost always gets there no problem if you get (a wide range of now) ram sticks. I would expect 3600 to be the same case again this round as 3200 - do your homework and it's not an issue.

    Keen to see what they can do on the new micron hotness.

    Edit to add: Hynix CJR is doing damn well too
    https://hardforum.com/threads/cavea...b-14-15-17-21-129-99.1973648/#post-1043987026
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
  20. Azrak

    Azrak Gawd

    Messages:
    778
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2015
    I'm mostly keen to see how Zen2 performs with non-B-die memory since Samsung is halting production of it soon if not already. Not being limited to B-die to get good timings will be a nice thing if it is possible, saving everyone some $$$ for their builds.
     
  21. workshop35

    workshop35 Gawd

    Messages:
    559
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Micron e-die is supposed to do well with ryzen, i read a reddit post where a guy was clocking it to 3600. Stuff is cheap right now too

     
  22. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,717
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    Sherloc09 on here is getting better than your average B-die sub timings on a dual rank 32gb kit of Hynix (yes Hynix) CJR. Enough said.
    He got it to 32Gb 3200 @ 14-15-17-21
    9f9cb0415b785b5b3b0acd8d0760b0ba.jpg
    That's the real sauce right there folks - you all know what you are looking at. Sherloc is a trailblazer!
    I have some of it in single rank here 16Gb on a 2600x but it's a workstation so not going to fuck around with it pushing volts much. But I will give it a tweak tomorrow just for you cats when I get the RMA mobo going again.
    https://hardforum.com/threads/cavea...b-14-15-17-21-129-99.1973648/#post-1043987026
    If 32Gb works that well I know what memory I will be running for Zen2 also.. the cheap stuff lol

    edit to add, this reminds me of the old days. To get best gaming and average performance, latency was king. You paid for latency. Back then at one point the Corsair XMS 3200LL hand matched stuff was the shit, CL2 lmao. Funny how all the numbers and situations repeat in many ways - the lesson of the day.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
    Darth Kyrie and workshop35 like this.
  23. Mode13

    Mode13 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    502
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2018
    yep, they thought netburst would scale up to 10ghz.. Whoopsie daisies !

    Interesting. I'd love it if a few more folks could confirm he isn't just playing with top 3% silicon lotto luck. B die kits are pretty much out of the picture now as far as I can tell and I need a 32GB (16x2) kit for my upcoming ryzen 3000 build. I'm completely unsure of what to buy this time around. A 3600 kit of sammy b-die C17~ would have suited me just fine, but can't find em for sane prices.
     
    blkt likes this.
  24. Slash3

    Slash3 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    214
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Yeah, the 5GHz fawning is pretty much just because it's a nice even step in speed. Within the CPU realm it's been sort of the unattainable "next step" for nearly a decade. The P4's Netburst architecture ramped us up in raw clock frequency so rapidly that in 2001 there was serious talk about 10GHz+ processors arriving on the market by 2011.

    https://www.geek.com/chips/intel-predicts-10ghz-chips-by-2011-564808/

    AMD's FX-9590 Black Edition 5GHz CPU stunt in 2013 was basically Icarus flying too close to the sun in terms of pushing the limits of their their architecture (and TDP), and both companies wisely refocused on IPC and multi-core.

    5GHz is a great number, but it's only one factor of many in a chip's design and in what determins the performance of a particular processor. People who want 5GHz just for the sake of 5GHz are kind of silly... so...uh... don't look at my sig.
     
    blkt and legcramp like this.
  25. FlawleZ

    FlawleZ Gawd

    Messages:
    790
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Yeah I always wanted 5Ghz with my 3970X but I couldn't get anything beyond 4.7Ghz stable and even that wasnt worth the heat and voltage required. I just daily drive at 4.4Gz. I seriously hope the rumors and leaks are true on Ryzen 2. I'll buy scooping one up in a heartbeat if so.
     
  26. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,229
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2004
    I guess I don't get the point. With a PBO-enabled 2700x and a single 2080ti I can push 60+ FPS in most modern titles @ 4k. On the gaming front CPU's are already fast enough. For other purposes, like video editing/rendering/etc, more threads is generally going to work better, and this is what AMD is offering at a fairly low price point of entry.
     
  27. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    17,541
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    If my 5820K could do 5Ghz I'd be running it. Sadly, I'm lucky if it runs stable at 4.3. I really lost the silicon lottery with this chip.
     
  28. Mode13

    Mode13 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    502
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2018
    The real demand now is in high refresh monitors. I just sold off my 4k monitor because I was too used to my 144hz 1080P panel and how smooth it was, I just can't stand 60hz anymore. So I'm "upgrading" that to a 144hz 1440P instead. The jump from 60FPS to 100-144 is massive in terms of CPU requirements, single core performance becomes a serious limitation.

    You're mostly right though, I was just watching a video showing even a 1950x threadripper will push quite a few AAA titles right over 100FPS. I would REALLY like to own a 16 core TR4 setup, but ...muh frames... :p
     
    N4CR and Slash3 like this.
  29. Slash3

    Slash3 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    214
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Yeah, this CPU has done me well! 4.3 isn't bad on Haswell-E, though - still a solid CPU. Does it just get too hot at 4.4/4.5, or is it a clock/voltage wall?
     
  30. Slash3

    Slash3 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    214
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    I'm waiting for independent benchmarks before deciding to pull the trigger or not, but I think it's going to be a pretty solid set of processors. I was really hoping to jump to a 16 core part, and may still hold off for that. What I expect is that we'll see relative parity with a stock i9-9900K with the 3800X, but I have a feeling that the 3900X is going to be down slightly vs the 9900K in single/low thread but make it up with all-thread performance. It's going to get messy comparing the 9900KS or otherwise overclocked all-core 5/5.1GHz 9900k vs an overclocked 3800X though. I think the 9900 will continue to pull ahead in single/low thread count when both are overclocked, with the 3900X again taking a healthy lead in all-thread loads and the 3800X essentially pulling up even in all-thread. The wild card is memory latency, and whether there have been enough improvements in that area on the Ryzen 3 chips.

    Exciting stuff. Intel's getting a talking to and it's delightful. Competition is good.
     
  31. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    17,541
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    Either a clock/voltage wall or (somewhat unlikely) a VRM limitation. I used to have it in a custom loop, by itself, with a 280mm rad. Even with the AIO it stays cool, it just won't stay stable at higher clocks.
     
  32. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,229
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2004
    My 2700x is pushing 100-120 FPS @ 4k just fine in the games that my 2080ti will keep up in, i've got a X27 so my target is 4k@120hz.
     
    Chimpee likes this.
  33. Mode13

    Mode13 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    502
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2018
    Nice! Oh baby that is one sexy monitor.. One day in the distant future when those specs are available at 32" for $500 I'll catch up to you :p
     
  34. GMcDougal

    GMcDougal Gawd

    Messages:
    924
    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    If we can get 4.7ghz on all cores based on a 6 core cpu...its bye intel for me
     
  35. blade52x

    blade52x 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,965
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
    Slightly disappointed. All this time we were lead to believe a 16 core monster was going to release at $500. But instead it's the 12 core part, and even worse there is no 16 core option right now. I still plan to go for the 3900X on X570, with the hope that we may see a 3950X or 4900X down the line as a potential upgrade path.
     
  36. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    17,541
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    "Lead to believe" by a bunch of rumors. This is why people should NEVER base their hype and desires off rumors. Even the most "credible" looking "leaks" can turn out to be false. Rumors like we saw leading up to the announcement should be treated as nothing more than someone's wishful thinking. The same way you'd treat some random stranger on a forum saying the same thing.
     
  37. GSDragoon

    GSDragoon [H]Lite

    Messages:
    115
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2004
    I'm in the same baot. We probably can't and won't know for sure until the chips are out and they can be tested. Maybe reviews will be out the day of preorder like the Radeon VII and we can get some decent info early.
     
    Mode13 likes this.
  38. sirmonkey1985

    sirmonkey1985 [H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010

    Messages:
    21,249
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    lets hope they found a fix for higher clock speed hynix chips, maybe then the increase in options will drive down samsung B-die stuff. because right now it just feels like they're riding the "you have no other option but to buy our shit if you want more than ddr4 3200 on ryzen" card.
     
  39. blade52x

    blade52x 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,965
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
    It's just typical AMD. I get rumors can be false, but they have to start from somewhere. Usually when it's Intel or Nvidia, the leaks turn out to be fairly accurate with the hardware we getting - pricing being a different story. But with AMD we're either getting the Ti killer for half the price that never arrives, or some non-existent CPU. Like I said, still planning on the 3900X since that will be the best all-purpose chip out there, but I'm just getting a little tired off how off some of the leaks always seem to be from the AMD side. I'm not sure if it starts from AMD themselves or just the internet full of hopium.
     
  40. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

    Messages:
    17,541
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2008
    How are a bunch of false rumors AMD's fault? The fact that fake rumors are so prevalent with AMD stuff is even more reason to never trust them.