Amazon CEO Andy Jassy threatens employees to return to office or "things are probably not going to work out for you"

M76 said:
Yes, here in Eastern Europe this is what passes as a decent salary considering half of all people take home less than that.

They looked at me like I'm an alien when I started asking about employee parking and bonus situation.

I'm in a small country and my expertise can only be used at a handful of companies, and I'm aware of all of them (I think). So unless I wanted to move out of the country, which I don't, there is not much I can do. Sure I could switch my focus, but I like what I'm doing and don't want to put 10+ years of experience on a shelf to do something completely different and start from the bottom of the learning curve again.

I don't like to take risks at all, I need to have a plan. I can't even go to a place without double and triple checking on street view where I'll park my car and how best to get there.

It is similar for me, unless some of the other players came out with an outrageous offer, one where I could save up enough money in a year or two to last me until retirement I'd not budge.
Click to expand...
Makes sense for your situation then for sure.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Again, it's a difference between occasional, and the norm.

Prior to the pandemic, you may have had low single digit percentages of employee hours worked from home, under special circumstances (Sick child, etc.)

If suddenly everyone works all of their time from home like during the pandemic for some companies, you are going from 2% to 100%.

That's a 50-fold increase. It's not difficult to imagine how internet bandwidth and VPN capacity might suddenly be insufficient, slow things to a crawl and need upgrading.

Now, in a post pandemic world, not very many organizations are going to hit that 100% figure, but 60%-75% is not unreasonable to expect. Your still looking at a 30x increase compared to the before times, which will almost certainly stress IT infrastructure.

Picture this:

Your colleague pings you on Teams and asks you to review a power-point he put together before that big presentation.

You navigate to the folder. The thing is full of pictures and effing 49MB. Your struggling VPN is downloading it at 35kb/s. That is going to frustrate and annoy you a lot, and certainly impact productivity.

I tend to think work from home is great, but to say that there is no IT work necessary to make it possible is not realistic.

Firewalls, and VPN's will need to be upgraded. Internet bandwidth possibly increased. Employees transitioned away from desktops and thin clients to laptops wherever necessary, etc. etc.

All of that said, I don't see how any company made it through 2020-2022 without already passing this hurdle.

At my company, sure, infrastructure could be better, but the IT manager worked his ass off to make things work well when we moved to remote work overnight in March 2020, and in general it has worked better than I could ever have imagined.

If you had asked me in 2019 if we - as a startup - could have brought a product to market including getting FDA authorization in a almost 100% WFH environment, I would have told you you were crazy, but we did just that. ("Ain't no small feat" to quote Deltron 3030) There were some pandemic related delays, but most of those were external to our organization, with external test labs and regulators.
Click to expand...

Ya, dead on, but we also know many companies did the bare minimum, let people use their personal devices, and just use some cloud services with little to zero data security or using any tools to keep end users safe..


I work for a fairly large MSP, and when Covid hit, the stats were, most of our clients pushed up infra upgrade projects about 5 years to where they would of been doing it. From perimeter, security, to internal infra, VDI infra (Citrix et cetera). And much of that also required internal network overhauls for faster backbones, 10/24/40Gbps switching et cetera, the list goes on from that receptionist at the front desk, to the DevOps team and C Suite.
 

Amazon tells managers they can now fire employees who won't come into the office 3 times a week​

Click to expand...

Amazon is now giving managers leeway to effectively fire employees who fail to meet the company's three-times-a-week, return-to-office mandate.

That's according to updated global manager guidance on Amazon's return-to-office policy obtained by Insider.
Click to expand...

https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-lets-managers-terminate-employees-return-to-office-2023-10 (paid link)

411a098e-79b6-44b7-8b33-75d7182dc4bf_text.gif


(next they'll start firing people who don't come in 4 times a week)
 
Last edited:
GoldenTiger said:
How generous, you'd take a 20 percent cut in pay for a 20 percent reduction in work... :p.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I mean, that was the point... lol. Hustle culture in this country is hilarious at times. Watch people in their 20s waste some of the best years of their lives for a company that will never give a shit about them. I get we all need money, but some companies literally operate almost like their workers are property because they are salary. Loyalty goes both ways, along with trust. My biggest advise to new engineers is to not put up with it. Do good work, but don't burn yourself out and enjoy life.
 
III_Slyflyer_III said:
Yeah, I mean, that was the point... lol. Hustle culture in this country is hilarious at times. Watch people in their 20s waste some of the best years of their lives for a company that will never give a shit about them. I get we all need money, but some companies literally operate almost like their workers are property because they are salary. Loyalty goes both ways, along with trust. My biggest advise to new engineers is to not put up with it. Do good work, but don't burn yourself out and enjoy life.
Click to expand...
My company made a point of saying "we only expect you to work 40 hours a week" when I signed on.
 
Yeesh we went back into the office a bunch this month and we were so bad on productivity in the office with everyone chatting and having to physically move about the place
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
That seems like a really effective way to lose lots of staff :p

https://fortune.com/2023/08/29/amazon-ceo-andy-jassy-return-to-office-mandate-or-face-consequences/

It would seem CEO's have completely lost touch with reality. Things are never going back to the way they were pre-pandemic. The pandemic has shown that many workers can be effective and productive from home, and the majority of those who work in roles that can are not willing to put up with businesses who try to force them to be in the office for no reason. This is especially for Amazon where some 30,000 of their employees signed a petition/letter indicating they disagree with the strategy and find it an insult when they have shown they can be productive remotely.

If employee retention matters to a business at all, this is the absolutely worst possible strategy.

The question is, how many of those 30,000 are willing to quit over it, and how will this impact Amazon operations? (And holy shit, I just realized Amazon has 1.5 million employees)

I tend to think policies like these are temporary. They can get away with it right now due to high interest rates aimed at reducing inflation down to 2% putting a damper on the once hot job market, but long term executives that are set in their ways will retire, the job market will become hot again, and housing within commutable ranges of hot job markets isn't about to get any more affordable any time soon...
Click to expand...

Add a decade of inflation to the housing market too. The high interest rates don't help to slow the inflation of house prices if I'm not mistaken
 
Fifliffl said:
Yeesh we went back into the office a bunch this month and we were so bad on productivity in the office with everyone chatting and having to physically move about the place
Click to expand...
Sounds about right. People spend hours a day just shooting the shit at every office I ever worked at. I don't know why they would think going back would increase productivity.
 
The most recent headline on this switched from “not going to work out well for you” to “might not get promoted”. I’m going to go on a limb and say that there might be some pushback
 
bigdogchris said:
Better than the people who want to keep the same rate of pay and only work 32 hours.
Click to expand...

Well, some research supports that there is a productivity boost from moving to a 4 day work week.

I'm not quite sure exactly how it works, but maybe people work better when they are better rested?

But as with everything else, I suspect it depends on what you do. If you bang out widgets for a living, I don't imagine you can make up for much less time by boosting productivity. For knowledge based work - however - it seems it is at least feasible, looking at the data.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Well, some research supports that there is a productivity boost from moving to a 4 day work week.

I'm not quite sure exactly how it works, but maybe people work better when they are better rested?

But as with everything else, I suspect it depends on what you do. If you bang out widgets for a living, I don't imagine you can make up for much less time by boosting productivity. For knowledge based work - however - it seems it is at least feasible, looking at the data.
Click to expand...
What is this thing you call rest? I can squeeze two full time jobs if we move to 4 day weeks.
 
blandead said:
What is this thing you call rest? I can squeeze two full time jobs if we move to 4 day weeks.
Click to expand...

You do you. I don't live to work. I work because I have to in order to pay the mortgage and other things.

If I can make enough to do that, and not have to spend as much time in the office, I'll do it every time.
 
I just got a job at a major DOD contractor for a 3 yr guaranteed and 5 option years making 35% more that is fully remote.

Before I was telework going into the office whenever I needed which could have been 2-4 times a weeks or months on end of never going in. I spent 95% of my 3 years probably at the house but was tied to base.

Now I can move whenever + the higher paycheck.

The prior job was the easiest thing I’ve ever done in my life. I probably really only worked a solid 2 months out of the 3 years adding everything up. It was simple, I had deadlines months out and I finished them in a few weeks then didn’t do much of anything.

Now there’s actual daily tasks and much more involved it seems.
 
Bankie said:
It's turned into a way for corporations to get staff to quit instead of doing firings/layoffs which allows them to avoid paying unemployment.
Click to expand...
while you're not wrong, it's worth noting that unemployment is a drop in the bucket compared to most severance packages that are expected during a big tech layoff.
 
kcmastrpc said:
while you're not wrong, it's worth noting that unemployment is a drop in the bucket compared to most severance packages that are expected during a big tech layoff.
Click to expand...
One of my neighbors just told me her son, who works for a game company in Seattle or somewhere just got bought out and I don't remember if he got laid off or not but she said he told her with his severance (and presumably savings and stuff) he wouldn't need to work for 3 years.
 
1_rick said:
One of my neighbors just told me her son, who works for a game company in Seattle or somewhere just got bought out and I don't remember if he got laid off or not but she said he told her with his severance (and presumably savings and stuff) he wouldn't need to work for 3 years.
Click to expand...
Idiot will probably live off of his money until it is all gone instead of finding another job and saving his windfall for retirement.
 
1_rick said:
One of my neighbors just told me her son, who works for a game company in Seattle or somewhere just got bought out and I don't remember if he got laid off or not but she said he told her with his severance (and presumably savings and stuff) he wouldn't need to work for 3 years.
Click to expand...

This is probably code for he's going to live off dollar store Cheerios, mooch whenever possible, and drag out doing nothing valuable with his time for an long as possible.
 
socK said:
Pretty sure it's this and just all around less stress.

I'd do 3x12 or 4x10 in a heartbeat to be honest.
Click to expand...
I'm doing 4x9 and 1x4 right now. I'd love to do 4x10 if the company let me.
 
Armenius said:
I'm doing 4x9 and 1x4 right now. I'd love to do 4x10 if the company let me.
Click to expand...
See if they'll at least go for a 9/80. You're almost basically doing that, only instead of 1x4, you'd do 1x8, while the others stay they same and then get every other Friday off.
 
Sir Beregond said:
See if they'll at least go for a 9/80. You're almost basically doing that, only instead of 1x4, you'd do 1x8, while the others stay they same and then get every other Friday off.
Click to expand...
Having tried something like that (10/80 actually) in my early 30s, I found it tough even as an office job. The 4-day weekend is nice but missing the one in the middle makes the last few days into a grind.
 
Demanding to stay home is incredibly selfish. Not only does this hurt the dynamic of being face to face with your co-workers, but the community that surrounds your workplace suffers without you needing it as a support for being there. If you really want Wall-E to become a reality, demand work from home, otherwise let's just play nice together.
 
Toboggan said:
Demanding to stay home is incredibly selfish. Not only does this hurt the dynamic of being face to face with your co-workers, but the community that surrounds your workplace suffers without you needing it as a support for being there.
Click to expand...
It depends on the industry. But I would say for the most part this is BS.

People were avoiding everyone inside the office anyway, and the fastest way to get employees to waste time is to allow them to do so in an office. Though work from home requires more discipline, there are zero distractions and the accountability is higher (obviously requiring proper management, but more so than trying to police water cooler breaks and micro managing).

And finally I would say, selfish for whom? Because up until now every single one of these corps have been stringing out employees for their own benefit while paying the least amount possible and exporting jobs to other countries when they can. So if it’s either “me being selfish” or the “company getting to be selfish”, then I will take my own self interest over the interest of some soulless soul sucking oganizarion every time.

I am paid to do a job, and yes do that job well. I am not paid to be owned or be at the whims/mercy of a corp. If you want to be that, that’s your business. But I and many others have zero interest in being that.

Toboggan said:
If you really want Wall-E to become a reality, demand work from home, otherwise let's just play nice together.
Click to expand...
Just say that you don’t have the self discipline to exercise and eat right without a job forcing you into the workplace. Just say that you don’t have a social life outside of your job. That’s easier.

Some of us have family and friends we’d rather hang out with and we look to jobs for paychecks and not for anything else.
 
Toboggan said:
Demanding to stay home is incredibly selfish. Not only does this hurt the dynamic of being face to face with your co-workers, but the community that surrounds your workplace suffers without you needing it as a support for being there. If you really want Wall-E to become a reality, demand work from home, otherwise let's just play nice together.
Click to expand...

Haha this is so comically dramatic

Sorry you're incapable of functioning outside of an office. We shipped a whole product remote.
 
socK said:
Sorry you're incapable of functioning outside of an office. We shipped a whole product remote.
Click to expand...
Granted, the people in my office had years of working together when corporate closed it and let us all work from home 5 years ago, but we are adults and know how to communicate with each other, whether it's phone or email or even Teams meetings if need be, and we've kept the product going all this time. We don't need to be next door to each other.

Granted not everyone can do it.
 
1_rick said:
Granted, the people in my office had years of working together when corporate closed it and let us all work from home 5 years ago, but we are adults and know how to communicate with each other, whether it's phone or email or even Teams meetings if need be, and we've kept the product going all this time. We don't need to be next door to each other.

Granted not everyone can do it.
Click to expand...

Basically our rule is don't try to hide, and communicate about your tickets. If you can accomplish that, you're fine.

Really, most of the time I just dev away in a Slack huddle. People will just meander in. If I see one already started, I'll just join that.
 
pendragon1 said:
most cant. the 6-7 people here saying its not a prob and should be the norm are an exception.
Click to expand...
I'll say it like this: it's complicated.

I think there are a lot of factors for why there are employees that work well with and without supervision.
There are a lot of people saying "everyone should come back to the office" and others saying "no one should come back to the office". You're closer to the former but not 100%. I'd suggest that it's at the very least in the middle somewhere. I would also suggest it's more towards not going into the office or hybrid.

If you're dealing with a bunch of employees that don't do their work, then I can understand why you have your position. I worked in UPS operations for 6 years, and if I let that color my perception of workers then yeah, it'd also be hyper negative. But I also have worked with a lot of people in industries where zero physical interaction is necessary. The maxim more or less being: get your work done and nothing else matters. And I would suggest that there is quite a contingent of people that are willing to fight for their ability to be independent.

Gen Y and Gen Z are both gens of entrepreneurs and I think this is all a reflection of that. We/they want the freedom to operate the way they want to and gladly fight to do so. Fight as in get their work done so they can keep their privileges or otherwise have their own business so they can keep their freedoms or fight with management also to gain said freedoms.

Are there people with no motivation, no work goals, and are otherwise just lazy? Yes. But I would also suggest then that that type of employee also won't be a great performer in the office either. At best "adequate" if micro-managed. That hasn't changed.

EDIT: And yeah, I would acknowledge that there is a subset of people that thrive in an office environment, where that helps them. The sort of person that needs to go to the gym to workout vs being able to workout at home. And for that type of person, working at home is squeezing them. So the two sides of the coin there are is that there were a lot of people that could've worked at home or independently for a long time and been better off (thrived) and were forced into office work. And there are also people experiencing the exact opposite. And so those "office people" are having to learn how to work by themselves. Again probably signaling that the "truth" is likely some-place in the middle.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: socK
like this
1_rick said:
Having tried something like that (10/80 actually) in my early 30s, I found it tough even as an office job. The 4-day weekend is nice but missing the one in the middle makes the last few days into a grind.
Click to expand...
Oh this is 3-day weekend. Basically take a two week period, for the first week it's 4 days at 9 hours and 1 day at 8 hours. Then for the second week its another 4 days at 9 hours and the 5th day is off.

Personally I'd rather do 4/10's myself, but 9/80's are an option.

socK said:
Haha this is so comically dramatic

Sorry you're incapable of functioning outside of an office. We shipped a whole product remote.
Click to expand...
Ditto - shifted into full remote and our product has 20 million users. They opened the office back up and surprise surprise, given the option (no mandate to return), literally 5 people came in again. So they closed the office when the lease was up early this year. So we have been full remote for almost 4 years now.

When the office was open, I started going back 1-2 days a week just to get out of the house, but to be fair, I usually had the whole office to myself which was cool because the other people that used it went on different days.

Literally not even management would go into the office when it reopened.

So I don't know, I think many just haven't opened their mind to new ways of working, and/or are so extroverted that the idea of working from home alone is not something they like.
 
Last edited:
In other unrelated news, Amazon doesn't have a return policy anymore. If you return an unopened item for a refund they do not guarantee they will refund you. Essentially all sales are final, regardless if you get your item or not. So if you return your new unopened item, they keep the item and your money. Even though they advertise free returns on both an item page and their general return policy, it holds no weight. After dealing with around a dozen Amazon customer service employees for almost a month since my item was returned, they still refuse a refund. Customer service is straight up telling me they do not guarantee refunds on anything shipped and sold by Amazon. They say they do offer free returns, but a free return only. Meaning they cover the shipping back... but the refund part is not something they offer anymore.

They also ask for all sorts of government ID. A quick google search will show this is a big problem currently. Last return I did with Amazon was around 4-5 years ago.

I'm sure they'll delete my close my Amazon account shortly, so since they stole $440 from me, I suppose I will snag an RTX 4080/4090 and return the favor.

Yeah, I can see the CEO being a shithead.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top