All Vista users should count down to 2-28-07 then...

[Appa]

LOL! CRASH STRIKES AGAIN!




I understand the frustration, believe me, which is why I went back to WinXP.

 

[TeamStrykerCore]

LOL! CRASH STRIKES AGAIN!




I understand the frustration, believe me, which is why I went back to WinXP.

Im sticking with Vista..

I remember the days when the enthusiasts / us loved it when our hardware didn't work so we could make it work in linux etc or use the latest / greatest thing that was out.

Now everyone's so set in their ways that everything just "has to work".

Now, I agree that a dual boot for a while is in order.

 

[G'ßöö]

Please STOP WHINING....

period! as an impatient gamer you've made a piss poor decision. you had all the power NOT to upgrade, and to upgrade to something that has little to no value. you, like so many, expect everything from new technologies the second they are out. time and time again its been proven its not the case. deal!

 

[Appa]

Im sticking with Vista..

I remember the days when the enthusiasts / us loved it when our hardware didn't work so we could make it work in linux etc or use the latest / greatest thing that was out.

Now everyone's so set in their ways that everything just "has to work".

Now, I agree that a dual boot for a while is in order.

Thats a great point. I do enjoy teching my stuff, since my Windows PC is just for gaming. All of my critical/work computing is done on my Macs. OS X >>>>>>>> *.OS's


I'll just reinstall everything once SP1 hits of nVidia finally fixes the driver bug.

 

[FlimFlam]

That is what is facked up with this country. Frivolous lawsuits, and the proclitivity for litigiousness.

 

[jusluv2play]

Now i may be wrong here, but Flight Sim X was one of the first "Games For Windows" packaged games that I saw in retail release.

It worked fine in XP with DX 9 drivers, but DX10 is supposed to take it to a completely different graphical level.


Second, how many "bonus" discs are really even worthwhile? Most freebies are crap anyway. See Maximum PC freebie discs with the magazines for an example, as most of the time they do not work either.


Thirdly, I see this all the time. Is it not funny that people that has the money to burn being an early adopter of new technology is the people that get bent out of shape over pretty much everything else in life.

It is not your way or no way. There is no need for another ridiculous class action suit that will end up hurting all of us in the long run by putting companies out of business or price hikes.

What early adopters need right now is patience. Supreme Commander comes out this week, wait and see if there will be any issues after you get it in your arrogant little hands before running off onto another rant.

And if you are such the computer programmer and have spell checker available to you, then use it. I watch and correct what I type as I type so that my spelling is pretty much perfect.

 

[Martyr]

Here is a little example. Out of a class of 150 students I had to wright a data structure with a language of my choice conforming to the Characteristics of a B tree. This program was to take input, operate on it and produce output according to the test input file. I could go on for quite some time as to what this data structure did but the point is I out of 150 student made the 2nd highest grade on the program. The guy that beat me wrote a flawless prog. In other words his code produced the correct output for EVERY input. He was probably a genious or close to it. They are out there believe me.

But I did well on mine because I specialize in debugging. I am relentless. I take medication to get me to sleep or my brain will just churn one thought after another. During those days. I would sit in bed like a calculator and think what would happen to numbers control characters once parsed etc.

um ok, im not sure what school you go to, but here at madison, writing a program in which all the inputs create the correct output is expected, not a fucking miracle.

 

[Appa]

 

[TeamStrykerCore]

Oh dear jeebus, back in before the lock.

 

[ipam45]

WOW i read that whole tread and got nothing out of it

everything that software companies is to get as much money as possible out of your pocket even if they are not the ones to get it. they release a product that is suppose to be great, you get it home and it doesn't work. now you get frustrated and think that it;s a hardware problem so you go out and buy something else. that product also doesn't match with another one of your hardware now you have two choice...(choose carefully) you can quit and throw all of that shit into the dumpster (that;s what i did...still using my
p3, 128 ram, and i think there might be a video card in here....casue my new lappy sucks)
option 2...buy more crap and try to fix more crap...so after 2000 dollars...you might get a computer that works or you are just SOL.

ahhhhhh this post is like the rest of the thread...you get nothing out of it HAHAHA


ohh i just want to share with you the first tip i learned when buy computer hardware for my new build: never buy hardware and software that before it's been released for 6 month...I learned that from this forum

 

[trinibwoy]

um ok, im not sure what school you go to, but here at madison, writing a program in which all the inputs create the correct output is expected, not a fucking miracle.

Yep, when I read that it really lowered my opinion of whatever class he was using to support his demand for quality.

 

[TeamStrykerCore]

If you wait for hardware to be released for 6 months all the support will be there.

This holds true for GPU's that's when youg et the best bang for your buck ratio.

 

[FlimFlam]

Here is one of the better articles I have read on Vista in general, drivers, and the related tech.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

Still an ATI fan-bo-y I see.....

I am downloading the "supreme commander' demo right now.....just to see how it runs on my rig...

At least I gave NV a second chance after the 7800. They just proved to me that they are worse today than two years ago. No big deal. At least I know my 8800's will get great money!

Back on topic, sell you gear or go back to XP.

 

[FlimFlam]

Rick, how were the 7800s and now 8800s "bad"? What are you disappointed in?

I have been pleased with my 7800 experience, and 8800 experience. I liked my x1900s too. But to be honest, the 8800s were the biggest single leap for me, as far as end user experience.

I try not to be a brand evangelist but have found Nvidia historically more reliable. It is flip flopped now. I am amazed at the people who have 8800s are automatically going to upgrade to r600. I used to be that way. Buying every new upgrade, every new $1000 cpu, which is fine if you have the money. But the increases in performance are usually so incremental that it is better to skip a line.

Dudes with x800s and 6800s should upgrade, but 8800 --> r600?

 

[LordVampyre]

you people are apparently desperate to try to thwart my warning about

SUPREME COMMANDER

it ain't going to work because it all is interconnected to hardware, Vista and incompetence

or perhaps they just DONT care.. like me I could care less

 

[Fawkes]

Am I the only one who found his I'm so smart and rich why is everyone else so stupid rant kinda sad?

 

[wee96]

Am I the only one who found his I'm so smart and rich why is everyone else so stupid rant kinda sad?

I was basically implying this with my comment earlier about him bragging of his schooling, which has nothing to do with vista or nvidia drivers. Its obvious.

 

[Arcygenical]

Crash, why are ALL of your recent threads inflammatory? Asus, Vista.

Do you have any proof that this Active X bug or whatever, is hitting other systems than your own?

I can understand frusteration over things not working properly, especially new software/hardware... In your profession you should know about bugs better than ANYONE. Bugs in x million lines of code generally take more than a few months to get over. The entire REASON nVidia's drivers are crappy recently is because of the launch of Vista. 1/2 their programming team was devoted to both XP and the other half to Vista... Their human resources cut in half, means for double the production time. Anyone that threatening litigation has no RESPECT for a company, providing an awesome product, stretched to it's limits.

But what the hell would you actually sue over? You agree not to hold the companies liable for any sort of damages when you buy their products. Read their TOSs.

Sure, an agreement like this is easily overturned in a US court of law (very little common sense in lower-level courts these days) but you'll need one HELL of a story to convince the the court to do so. Unless your life has been impacted in a specific and severly damaging mannor, good luck... Even if it has, the chances of finding several (thousand) members with similar complaints are small. I doubt there are enough people WITH 8800s to even start a CAS.

 

[Crash[man]]

LOL! CRASH STRIKES AGAIN!




I understand the frustration, believe me, which is why I went back to WinXP.

LOL now that is funny. Yea it would seem I can stir up a hornets nest. I actually am not a bad guy.

I have been on the Supreme Commander forum now for a while and it is sad. That game is so buggy. It has already been released overseas. In the USA its release date is 2-20. I am being told to just run it in XP from people that already have it. Nah. The demo looked quite cheesy and when you have thousands of machines on the field you need every bit of video power and processing power to make something like that work. That is what drew me too it. The mass warfare with huge numbers of implements of war on the battle feild.

Believe me after reading over their what I did I am not buying the game.

I have already read people having problems dual booting XP and Vista and I dont need to do it when I have 6 computers right here in my room working.

Direct X 10 sold me. That simple. The sinister refusal to allow it in XP is going to eventually haunt MS. I guarantee it. Yea I am completely psychologically beat down now.

I can no longer debate this. My blood pressure is going up because of it. I am ghosting back to XP today so I can enjoy my computer without all the lockups and crap.

I mean I cant even watch a movie with Cyberlink DVD player without it chocking. I keep getting "your video hardware has failed" message.

My head is killing me from this.

I guess we will all come back here in another couple of months and I bet you we will be very pissed off.

So se la vie to this BS.

And I have a job. I am self employed and I make enough money to buy a 5500 dollar rig. To me that is enough. I don't have a big house and kids so I live a modest lower middle income lifestyle.

As far as me mentioning my degree. That was done to inform many here that there are so many very intelligent graduates in Computer Science and EE as well as other field that don't get in because some little 21 year old girl doesn't let them in the door at human resources. That is why I have been in business for over 10 years. I am the boss.

I just want to have a nice modern PC to play games on in my spare time. I am on call 24 7. I haven't even been playing any games because I have been so pissed off.

I am glad I at least make some here either enjoy what I have to say or laugh at it. I hope you don't hate me LOL

I will lay low now I promise. cya

 

[nsxdemon]

um ok, im not sure what school you go to, but here at madison, writing a program in which all the inputs create the correct output is expected, not a fucking miracle.

Amen. I'm pretty sure that tier 2 schools expect that too. Using a B tree structure and making it work correctly is not the work of a "genius" by any means. It might not be as simple as a for loop, but it's not the most challenging thing in the world either.

Crash, as a side-note, I'm having problems making sense of your arguments. You're complaining about how Nvidia basically has low-performance programmers and that you're so much better. Please explain how this is so if you can't get this program to work? I'm not a driver developer and I'm not strictly a coder, but I'll go out on a limb and say that developing video card drivers for a new OS is just *slightly* more difficult than anything you've done in school. And if you can't get those working perfectly, then, well.......

 

[Proxy]

I'm sorry but, I just have to laugh at you guys that make a big deal out of this! Does anyone besides me remember when XP First came out? Complete crap. And I don't see any DX10 games yet, SLi with the beta drivers works in DX9 games. Sure there are some bugs, but, the bottom line is, if you get Vista NOW while all the bugs are being worked out, expect it to be [H]ard! I guess for some Vista is 2[H]ard4U.

 

[GoldenTiger]

He's a nooblar @ life, what else can I say?

 

[synergyo1]

That is what is facked up with this country. Frivolous lawsuits, and the proclitivity for litigiousness.

No.. Whats fucked up is people still using Comic Sans font! My eyes!!!

 

[CptFalcon]

if you get Vista NOW while all the bugs are being worked out, expect it to be [H]ard! I guess for some Vista is 2[H]ard4U.

LOL

 

[GlimmerMan]

Yea I am completely psychologically beat down now.

You only have your self to blame for your condition. You sir, were not meant to work with bleeding edge technology. Stick with established technology and leave the new stuff to the big boys.

I just want to have a nice modern PC to play games on in my spare time.

WinXP is still pretty modern. And quite refined.

I am glad I at least make some here either enjoy what I have to say or laugh at it. I hope you don't hate me LOL

It was more like a waste of time to me.

[QUOTE='Crash[man]I will lay low now I promise. cya[/QUOTE]

Cya in a few posts. LOL

 

[Sycraft]

I think. perhaps, that I should explain that I'm not trying to defend nVidia's handling of the 8800 situation, just explain the reality of it. We live in a real, imperfect, world and there's all kinds of stuff that isn't the way we want. Much of it we simply don't have the power to change. That we just have to learn to deal with and make the best of. Though I'm not religious, there's a quote, the Serenity Prayer that has something very wise to say about this situation, and life in general:

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

When there's something you can't change, accept it. That doesn't mean you have to be happy with it, but accept it. Don't stress over it as that does nothing but make you unhappy. Make the best of it.

In this case, that's particularly true. The 8800 works fine with XP, it plays games all kinds of fast. So while you can't change the driver situation in Vista, you can change the OS you run. Have the wisdom to understand that you can't change the Vista situation, but can still run XP and have fun gaming.

After all, that's what this is all about right? You play games for entertainment, to enjoy yourself. Why then do something that makes it stressful and un-fun? There's enough to life to stress you out without trying to make gaming one of those.

Now none of this is said to excuse what nVidia has done or how things have been handled. Personally I think they should have held off on Vista drivers and simply said "It's not ready, it'll be out when it is. We don't want to give you a substandard experience."

However that's not in my power to change, and we have to accept the here and now. There are Vista drivers and they do have problems. How you deal with that is up to you. I suggest in whatever way maximises your gaming enjoyment and minimises your stress level.

You don't have to forgive, and certainly don't forget, but you do need to accept.

 

[Appa]

 

[TeamStrykerCore]

mean I cant even watch a movie with Cyberlink DVD player without it chocking. I keep getting "your video hardware has failed" message.

My head is killing me from this.



Don't let your head kill you. Your upset because YOUR current configuaration doesn't work properly with Vista. Why don't you actually state your hardware problems instead of ranting and raving boss man and we could help you fix it. In business for 10 years because you are the boss? That's great! Just fire windows vista move back to XP and like the other guy said. Let the big boys handle vista. Not everyone has to cry on the playground.

My offering to you. Tell us your hardware problems in detail and let's see if we can fix these bugs.

 

[spaceman]

this is why I tell every gamer that vista isn't released yet. just stick with xp until the smoke clears. anyone who can read would have known this crap was coming early on. is it right? not really but it is the way it is and always will be until we ascend to gaming heaven where everyone has a jumbotron 700Ft high def big screen and their own cheerleaders.

 

[pfunkman]

I now know after a good deal of analysis that when I post a message that consists of a significant number of sentences people just cant read. I suppose they are just lazy.

If you had read further as to WHY I posted this the being the last straw, It has nothing to do with drivers and hardware. It has to do with software.

The Supreme Commander Bonus DVD

It will not load in Vista due to an Active X control. This is what any reader of this thread should think about.

What this means is, what is the game going to be like then. Will I waste my 50 dollars on it?

With you the previous poster implying that this thread will turn into a flame war for some unknown reason shows you didnt read it.

Vista is about gaming for us here in this forum. I dont think we care a whole lot about Office for Vista. I dont think we care a whole lot about buy music from Microsofts feeble attempt at competing with iTunes.

We are here because we want to play PC Games in Direct X 10 with our extreme systems we have paid a lot of money for.

I am trying to bring to peoples attention that the first formal Vista game to use Direct X 10
Supreme Commander is getting off to a terrible start from someone about to buy it next week.

If I buy it and it doesnt load like the bonus disk what the hell?

So let me get this straight your bitching that the actrive X xontrol was blocked vista by default?! You should be mad at the game manufacturer for putting the crap on thier disk. Active X has been a security problem for years and IMO this is a good thing. If i had a dollar for every virus over the last 5 years that came as an active X conrol...

Your blaming Microsoft for something that has nothing to do with them if the developers of the game did thier job when they made the game for vista they should have known about this and did away with the Active X junk.

Guys like you piss me off your the ones screaming in the background Windows is full of holes and not secure so when they make it damn near air tight you bitch that its too constrictive...

Dont suppose before you started your flamefest you right clicked your drive and set compatability to XP and ran it as admin did you...

 

[Crash[man]]

Amen. I'm pretty sure that tier 2 schools expect that too. Using a B tree structure and making it work correctly is not the work of a "genius" by any means. It might not be as simple as a for loop, but it's not the most challenging thing in the world either.

Crash, as a side-note, I'm having problems making sense of your arguments. You're complaining about how Nvidia basically has low-performance programmers and that you're so much better. Please explain how this is so if you can't get this program to work? I'm not a driver developer and I'm not strictly a coder, but I'll go out on a limb and say that developing video card drivers for a new OS is just *slightly* more difficult than anything you've done in school. And if you can't get those working perfectly, then, well.......

I had a big feeling there would be a number of you attacking or provoking me on my statements as far as school.

the one thing you need to keep in mind is that the curriculum I followed was almost a mirror image if MIT. I am sure most of you have heard of MIT. I went to UF just so you know.

Now the data structure (B tree) in it of itself can be understood in its functionality at a fairly rudimentary level of programming science but the particular assignment, one of many I had to do, was quite intricate.

The reason I brought it up was for purposes of an analogue to debugging.

Among performance issues and other functional issues for a driver to work in Vista those Devs are taking into consideration specific hardware vender's and even specifics to game fixes. To do this they must debug the changes they make in their driver. So for example one of the new fixes for the latest Nvidia driver was to prevent a black screen from appearing in Quake 4 in Vista.WAIT I AM WRONG THERE WAS SOME OTHER CODE SOMEWHERE TO FIX THAT. So in order to make an absolute statement that they have resolved this they would need to debug the driver with respect to this fix. This could take hours or maybe they came across a very simple fix that was overlooked.

What happens is the programmers need to apply multiple scenarios to the new driver that might cause this bug and see if it goes away. Like me with The B Tree I had to input any possible key stroke and parse the data to make sure 1. it was valid and 2. if it was usable and then create an error code with respect to the inferior data.

Programmers are on strict deadlines and they will release software by that deadline with bugs or not.

I did actually work at a company that for the most part was using VB. My job was to use a program called Form Flow. I had never heard of it and it had a macro language available to me to create government forms. In my few months with that company I saw the stress and the attitude of a team of programmers which is universal. Now that I can look back I can see why many programmers get out of that type of development atmosphere.

This is what we are dealing with here in every aspect. Large groups of programmers with Team leaders riding their asses forcing code to be released by such and such date.

I have been there and have hands on experience. To even give you more of an idea of the complexity of such development. The driver consists of multiple parts. These parts are most likely locked and when a programmer needs to work on their designated part of the driver they have to check it out of the library. So the company keeps track of who is editing what. Then once that programmer has made is changes and hopfully commented his code in a professional way it is put back in the library for the next team member to use so he can edit his or her part of lets say the driver. It is a secure way that the development process occurs.

Now I dont know hardly shit really other than what I am telling you. Things can be different from one company to the next but this is the basic idea behind team developed code.

With this complexity you can see how difficult debugging can be. You have to read other programmers comments and hope you see usable comments.

I almost changed my major to computer science and I took an Instructors advise in saying an Electrical Engineering Degree is more prestigious. If I could go back I would have changed my major because I like to code.

I dont claim to be an expert in the least. But I am a good troubleshooter. That is why I brought up the B Tree because it is hard to find people that are relentless at finding bugs. Its just the way my mind works.

I used to be very good at math. I am a musician. They kinda go hand in hand a lot of times.

Believe me or not the conclusion is that there isnt enough debugging going on and it takes a really crazy mind to go at it hour after hour. Most of these people have lives. Married kids nice houses make good money. Its the stamina I am talking about.

You have to stay on it to fix it like a machine.

John Carmack is my most respected Programmer on the face of the earth. He is a complete genious. Rather than let Vista put him down he released Doom3 v 1.3.1.
I loaded it and the game was just about as good as in XP. He fixed the textures in all the faces of character which was the most notable issue I saw. As for Quake 4 probably Carmack isnt messing with it.

 

[wee96]

Dude your still blabbing about yourself in such a way that you really look like a douche, we dont need to know or care about your education whatsoever.

 

[Crash[man]]

NICE ASS COMMENT

If you had read correctly I DID place the blame on SUPREME COMMANDERS Devs or wannabes.
but you didnt

You wanted to just simply join the party or funk for you

 

[PWMK2]

Everyone in this thread needs to eat a cookie.

 

[pfunkman]

Everyone in this thread needs to eat a cookie.

You got one for me?

 

[Crash[man]]

I just ghosted back to XP pro. I am booting now back into a nice load of XP with games ready to play.

I look forward to loading the new CoH patch 1.05 though.

Yea no more Vista currently on a machine here but On Monday I already have 2 Vista jobs. That means my customers bought a Dell and the other from Circuit City. Internet connectivity problems I believe for both. I only hope no other tech got his hands on them.

Oh and I just found the elusive Temp directory under your computer name and application Data. The Temp storage pit which will collect thousands of files if left unchecked. An incredible flaw in all MS OSes.

In XP this Temp folder is hidden under your Local user. If you dont know this check it yourself and see how much crap you have in there. I personally created a shortcut to the folder so I can constantly keep an I on it.

Also since a lot of you think I am pretty much full of shit do a search for the file type *.sol

You will then find how macromedia is allowing companies the ability to watch us way beyond a cookie. I also monitor this folder and delete the SOL files at all times.

This is just a little present from me to you and I know way more than just that.

Most computer users and technicians don't even know about these things. I am not going to sit and try to prove to you people anything when I dont have to.

I will tell you that if you think all the devs on the drivers projects and the OS itself are all smart and have the stamina to fix these things you are wrong.

 

[spaceman]

cheerleaders ftw!!



pom poms

 

[Replicant1911]

I think the OP should take some of that medication he mentioned in the first post.

 

[Obi_Kwiet]

I will agree that Vista and driver support leave a lot to be desired. Still, you knew all of this before you bought it but you bought it anyway. There's no point in acting all surprised and indignant about it. Companies will release bad products, but buying them anyway and being mad when they don't work well is stupid. That's what reviews are for. Sure, you can try to sue them if you want, but the payment won't be close to what your legal fees are, and you probably won't win because they have a ton of money and are very used to this sort of thing. Besides, you won't change them, that's the way they are and that's the way they will continue to be. In the future, buy what you know works.

Seriously, if you buy stuff you know won't work properly, there's no point whining, we really don't care.