AdoredTV Reviews the Radeon VII

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by AlphaAtlas, Feb 14, 2019.

  1. AlphaAtlas

    AlphaAtlas [H]ard|Gawd Staff Member

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    AdoredTV just posted their review of the Radeon VII. In terms of performance, AdoredTV's results line up with reviews that went up earlier, generally besting the liquid cooled Vega 64 and achieving parity with the GTX 1080 TI and RTX 2080, depending on the title and settings. But what really seemed to stick out to the Scottish reviewer was noise: even inside his personal PC, the reference Radeon VII was far noiser than the MSI 1080 TI and liquid-cooled Vega 64.

    Check out the review here.

    Fortunately, it seems that AMD fixed the Wattman issues Gamers Nexus and Der8auer ran into earlier, as the the tool's auto undervolt feature brought noise levels down to reasonable levels with 2 clicks while lowering power consumption by about 40W.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  2. Sikkyu

    Sikkyu I Question Reality

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    its kind of funny the triple fan design is louder then the normal blower design.

    The bamboozle is real
     
  3. SeymourGore

    SeymourGore 2[H]4U

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    Watched the review this morning - the Wattman issues seems to have fixed the noise issues. What I didn't like about it, was his insistence that the launch day reviewers didn't bother with wattman profiles/lowering sound noise and I don't remember him mentioning how Wattman was broken at the time. I don't know, I can't criticize those launch day reviewers for negatively reviewing the soundprofile due to not being able to access the full feature set.

    I'm curious if AMD contacted AdoredTV to delay the review until after the feature was ready to go. Because I'm sure if it was a simple working tweak, some of those initial launch reviews would've mentioned the feature.
     
  4. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I listened to this video this morning

    Not one of his better review samples...

    It’s full of discrepancies if you listen critically.
    AMD software has well surpassed Nvidia software he says, speaking primarily it would seem about the driver control panel.

    Well AMD driver control panel is window dressing when the underlying functions don’t even work and drivers exhibit various bugs. I’ll take an old legacy control panel anyway if the game drivers are stronger (Nvidia).

    He complains that he had lots of driver issues with this card and testing - so much so that he gave up and started using his own personal machine instead of his testbench, but still says AMD software is better?

    He speaks about how quiet the card can be when he uses cool and quiet, but doesn’t have equivalent data of an undervolt test on Nvidia. (admits as much which is fair)

    He also mentions that by default when cool and quiet was on, his experience was so lousy he cursed AMD for making such a “crap” card, until he figured out that automatic setting was enabled and causing him the slow FPS grief. So really AMDs drivers made the card unusable to try to maintain the quiet the customer expects, the way he got the best/optimal noise relief was by manually undervolting the card himself. So much for software light years ahead. :rolleyes:

    He uses old benchmark data for 2080 cards with launch drivers and warns with dumb AMD propaganda that 8GB of VRAM might not be enough for gaming because the 2080 card on launch drivers stutters in the new TombRaider game —- then goes onto shows that 8gb of VRAM works fine on the AMD Vega 64. HELLO McFly. Obviously 8GB of VRAM isn’t a problem for the Vega 64. Let's try some updated drivers on the 2080 before making that logic leap. It's well recognized and long known that more memory can be allocated when it is available to the system than is absolutely required to run. How about a test with a 8GB 1080 or 1070 card as an alternative if you no longer have the 2080? That's a grasp and a half.

    He basically admits the only reason to buy the Radeon VII is if you need the 16GB of VRAM, but no one has put forth any true evidence that 16GB of VRAM is needed for gaming anytime soon. Fantastic looking games like Hunt Showdown use a mere fraction of my 1080TI's VRAM - like 2-3GB at 3440x1440. So it's not required -- maybe some optimized engine or driver issue.

    He calls the Radeon VII product great and disappointing at the same time.
    I’d call it disappointing only. It was beat in his benchmark suite by the 1080ti that is 2.5 years old, cost the same $700 at launch, but the Radeon has worse thermals, worse drivers, runs hotter, uses more power, won't overclock, and requires an unproven undervolt to even be as quiet as the 1080tis reference setup. Any three fan 1080ti (to make an apples to apples cooler comparison) will be completely inaudible under load. :meh:

    You can see he wills for the Radeon VII to succeed, he’s rooting for it and he comes away saying all those cards are in the same tier, Vega 64, 1080TI, 2080 and Radeon VII, and it’s up to the buyer to pick what he wants - which is nonsense.

    NO. They aren’t in the same tier. I owned a Vega 64 and a 1080TI. Heck no, they aren’t in the same tier, not in max performance, not in software drivers, not in consistent performance across the widest swath of games. You can’t mention all these problems with one card and conclude they are in the same teir. It makes no logical sense.


    Logic FAIL

    ........


    The one thing I will very much agree with him on from this video is that Freesync at lower framerates feels smoother than no FreeSync at higher framerates. He mentions that several times -- that was certainly my experience as well. I had FreeSync on a Fury X crossfire combo. I bought Vegas but had loads of driver problems, so I purchased a 1080TI and while the FPS was registering faster, the gaming experience felt way worse absent FreeSync. I had to move to a Gsync monitor to resolve that. It's easy to feel, hard to describe, but it's so stark after getting used to variable refresh rate that it quite literally takes all the fun out of playing games until you get it back. I don't care between FreeSync or Gsync - both great, both similar in feel -- just don't take it away!
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
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  5. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    He clearly stated he was getting the card Tuesday from a Friday phone call and the release was Thursday.

    I would not call this a review btw just a short stroll the best parts are at the very last where he is able to show some alternative settings which allow some better tweaking of power and fan speed.
     
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  6. dragonstongue

    dragonstongue 2[H]4U

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    based on Instinct Mi50 not Mi60 (spec wise, seeing as ofc the 50 is a cut down 60, so to is this)

    Not sure why many review sites got that mucked up?
     
  7. SeymourGore

    SeymourGore 2[H]4U

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    I'll need to listen to it again tonight, I was under the impression that his review was delayed by 7 days but didn't realize his was given the card for review by AMD *after* the initial launch date.

    Still, I didn't like the criticism of the day one journalists for not tweaking the settings for better fan noise when it didn't appear to be an option then.

    With that said, isn't the [H] review supposed to go live anytime now? Thought I read Wednesday evening/Thursday morning for that one.
     
  8. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    Editing now.
     
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  9. 1Nocturnal101

    1Nocturnal101 Gawd

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    Because people are more than likely not going to do that, it's just like regular Vega if I have to undervolt the card to make it a compelling product what is the point of buying it, it's a clear example of AMD releasing a card not properly tuned correctly, it's just like saying hey this is the best card on the market, but only if you OC it, the vast majority of mainstream consumers aren't going to do that, they are just going to throw the card in install the drivers and go, or prebuy a system with the card already in, so if they don't pay for OC services they are likely playing with the card in the stock config.
     
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  10. magda

    magda Limp Gawd

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    Geez!
    At this rate, even The Verge is gonna have a Radeon VII review before Hardocp :rolleyes::D
     
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  11. Tak Ne

    Tak Ne [H]ard|Gawd

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    I doubt it, judging by how they build gaming PCs they're probably trying to insert it into the CPU socket. :D
     
  12. ordray

    ordray n00b

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    Oh please, they've already figured out that it goes into the RAM slot instead. Duh!
     
  13. SeymourGore

    SeymourGore 2[H]4U

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    I like to think that the Verge learned their lesson and are now watching YouTube PC DIY build videos before posting their next article.
     
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  14. Lakados

    Lakados [H]ard|Gawd

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    None of my suppliers have this card, and until I see some 3’rd party builds I have to assume it is a paper launch. Granted many Chinese manufacturers are closed for the Chinese New Year and I am told that can last for weeks so come end of March we’ll know for sure.
     
  15. Hakaba

    Hakaba Gawd

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    Hmmmm... I’ll watch but the bias is probably strongly in AMDs favor, especially as I roll through the comments of fans who are parroting the same thing o er and over.
     
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  16. iQuasarLV

    iQuasarLV AMDFanboy EchoChamber Member

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    Not, really. Got about 27 minutes into the video and he just says its disappointing overall with this being the best AMD can do right now. I would say it was tough constructive criticism of the card. Fairly done.
     
  17. Tak Ne

    Tak Ne [H]ard|Gawd

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    I just checked the two sites I tend to use and one has sold the few they had a few yesterday and on Overclockers 4 of the 6 cards are in stock (although in very very small numbers).
    I wouldn't say its a paper launch but maybe one step up from that.. cardboard launch?

    His recent videos have been very AMD centred but is it really any surprise? AMD has done a load of great stuff recently with CPUs where Intel has rebadged an overclocked workstation CPU (a tactic AMD seems to be copying for these Radeon VIIs).

    The card is a disappointment but I love the idea of 16GB of memory. I bet there will be times that would be useful that long before DLSS or DXR are worth having.
    The Tomb Raider game in his video hits 10GB of VRAM. In a time when i've seen games use over 19GB of system ram, no amount is really too much.
    So my next card will probably be whichever NV gamer card has the most memory at the time. Current NV cards are more power efficient and faster even though in my experience their drivers are garbage.
     
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  18. Lakados

    Lakados [H]ard|Gawd

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    Calling it a disappointment may be a bit harsh, underwhelming would be better, they need to shave at least $50 off it and drop the noise by a solid 10db I am looking forward to seeing what 3'rd parties can do with it but at this point I would be hard pressed to recommend it over a RTX 2080. I am replacing my system in May so they have until then to show me what they've got.
     
  19. Crystoff

    Crystoff [H]Lite

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    A very reasonable criticism, considering you haven't watched it. At least you aren't biased.
     
  20. GSDragoon

    GSDragoon [H]Lite

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    Auto undervolt doesn't work on all cards, which is why AMD has the default so high. If I turn it on, the screen goes blank from browsing simple web pages or even just enabling the option without anything else running. Games go blank in less than a minute.
     
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  21. Maddness

    Maddness [H]ard|Gawd

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    It's something that might need a couple of updates to sort out.
     
  22. Hakaba

    Hakaba Gawd

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    I did and I got to that part at the end, but throughout the entirety of video I still felt he was just oozing over Vega VII. One part that stands out to me was the 1080 ti besting Vega in Doom yet the "Vega plays smoother, so much smoother I did not miss a shot. (paraphrased)". The one thing I found interesting was the fact Tomb Raider ran so horribly on the 2080 and yet it ran fine with the Vega 64, that part of the video still left me scratching my head. I also wont go into the AMD vs Nvidia software rant since peoples likes or what is easy vs hard is very subjective. I found Ryzen Master to be pretty interesting initially, but eventually I ended up just going back to the UEFI to make all my changes.

    I admit AMD has come a long way from the bulldozer days and even thought Ryzen was going to be another mess. I openly admitted that I made a mistake and regret the purchase of my 7700K so the following year I purchased a 2700x near launch (after motherboard research) and have enjoyed it since. On the video card side of the house let me see... I can only say I am happy to see the card release since it shows AMD can compete (even thought it was not purely a gamer card). But they need to start launching cards closer to Nvidia's release or make their cards much more desirable so more people will be willing to wait for them. I also agree that more RAM is never a bad thing, but if rumors are true that extra 8GB ran the card up an additional $150 dollars. If that card launched with 8GB at $550 I could even see my self pushing that to family or friends that wanted to buy a new card.

    Edit: Okay after looking at Kyle and Adored's review one more time, I will agree that 16GB is probably the way to future proofish your setup. Just we are going to have to accept that price increase until prices drop on memory.

    I figure I would go in depth here but nah, I'll keep this short. I said I was going to watch it and I did, the reason for my earlier statement is because his channel is biased towards AMD. So trying to figure who and what I am biased against. But please let me know.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
  23. Shadowed

    Shadowed Limp Gawd

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    Why is the cooler so loud? It seems unusual.
     
  24. Bawjaws

    Bawjaws Limp Gawd

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    Three smallish fans (7.5cm) spinning very fast (3,000rpm+) = loud.
     
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  25. Bankie

    Bankie [H]ard|Gawd

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    Adored is as biased as they come; just because he sometimes says "AMD is disappointing" doesn't mean he's fair and/or unbiased.

    He constantly talks around the weaknesses of the card, 'The software is way beyond Nvidia's'; I have systems with both cards and I'd say that while NV's control panel is uglier it's easier to find what I'm looking for as opposed to the Office Ribbon-like slide panels of AMD. He mentions how friendly the software is because it tells him to set the proper resolution and enable Freesync; NV does that also. He makes a small mention of the stability issues with the software, ignores it like it's a non-issue, and then makes it out like the most important thing is how the pretty the interface is. He uses old review numbers with 6 month old drivers for his 2080 comparisons and says that he'll only change if NV starts sending him free cards. He says that Rise of the Tomb Raider's performance MAY be a driver issue but then does his hardest to make it about the VRAM even though the 2080 CRUSHES the R7 in the newer Shadow of the Tomb Raider (see [H]'s review) which is more graphically advanced. He tests undervolting on AMD cards but says he "will leave others to test it on NV cards". There are more but I don't feel like watching it again.

    Archaea has a bunch of points earlier in this thread if you missed them also. AdoredTV absolutely goes out of his way to make push the AMD good and NV bad narrative; he just has more tact than your typical fanboy.
     
  26. iQuasarLV

    iQuasarLV AMDFanboy EchoChamber Member

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    Archaea contradicted them self with the closing comment. How can you say the Vega64 sucked and then go on to state you had nothing but driver issues; then go on to lambast Adroed for using outdated drivers that lead to performance issues in a game. You basically just dug the same whole that you shamed Adored for doing. Then laugh off that Vega64 Radeon vii felt smoother when the 1080Ti was faster, but then go on to state that freesync does in fact make lower frame rates "feel" smoother. Archaea's comments of the video were just as laced with the same level of bias based on past experiences with Adored, hardware, and software that Adored is being shamed for in your comment. Yet you'll point to his comments as though they put the nail in the coffin.

    If you take Adored's video out of context, that you plain just do not like the guy's viewpoints, the video by itself lines up with my comment. Adored had just as many caveats to all his personal positive observations on AMD, AND did give 1080/2080 cards waivers when mentioning performance issues. Couplle of examples.
    > Adored mentions that Nvidia cards are also very capable of under volting and to please do it to save energy and noise

    >Adored mentions vega64 performs slowly and then goes on to mention that the 2080 issue is most likely driver related


    He was not gushing over the card like I have seen him do in the past. He was not an apologist defending the card's failings. He highlighted the card's strengths and mentioned the failings, but also found a work-around to his most biggest complaints.

    While I prefer [H] and GN for the more technical side of reviews. I do dabble in camp AMD / camp Nvidia personalities to get alternative viewpoints. Sometimes you can walk away with tidbits other people fail to address; which I did with this video. However, if the guy just plain annoys you why did you even bother to comment in here? Save the stress man its not worth it.
     
  27. Bankie

    Bankie [H]ard|Gawd

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    The problem with the 2080 "maybe it's drivers" thing is that he states it somewhat dismissively and then continues on to promote it as not enough VRAM multiple times. Of course he tests SotTR and it's fine but afterwords brings up the RofTR benchmarks again to mention it being a possible VRAM issue again: "This is how the 2080 performs in Rise of the Tomb Raider at 4k. It is a legitimate result and if it is because of the 8GB of VRAM then that is something that people considering buying these cards really should know about." - AdoredTV when using 6 month old driver results for an NV card that work fine on the newer game.

    Also notice that afterwords when he shows AMD's benchmarks he just kind of glosses over the fact that AMD themselves shows the 2080 as having better performance in RotTR....

    Archaea didn't post a video under the guise of being a professional tech reviewer/personality. It's fine to say that slower FPS Adaptive Sync is smoother than higher FPS non-Adaptive Sync but reviewers should put forth their best effort to approach products equally. Adored always attempts to put AMD in the best light possible and flat out refuses to test NV products with similar tweaks or methods.

    I don't stress over it at all; it just amazes me that people seem to consider this guy as anything more than a 'Hype Man' for AMD.
     
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  28. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You misread my post. I didn't laugh off that Radeon VII felt smoother when the 1080TI was faster FPS, actually 100% wrong - I said I understood what he meant there because I had the exact same experience, when I went to a Nvidia 1080ii with a FreeSync monitor after using the Fury X FreeSync setup. This unexpected missing smoothness on the 1080ti, forced me to buy a g-sync monitor to get back that good smooth feel -- at which point I learned there's no subjective difference between FreeSync or Gsync's gaming experience - but there is a difference without one or the other.

    I didn't post any FPS comparisons like Adored TV did using old drivers or promote illogical/unfounded 8GB VRAM limitations as a potential pitfall without clear and certain proof - so your criticism of my post is, once again, incorrect.

    No, you've wrongly quoted me again. I've used AMD 285, Fury X, Vega 56, and Vega 64, and Nvidia 560, 670, and 1080TI in my primary personal gaming machine in the last 3-4 years. I'm not anti AMD. I'm anti crap launch drivers, and reviewers making light of sweeping widespread known issues. Did you notice how many of the mainstream big name reviewers said they reached out to AMD to find out if something was wrong with their card, or to address very specific issues, like Kyle's x399 motherboard lock up issues, or Jay's 2 cents issues, or Tom's SPL issues, etc. Those guys have red phone contacts at AMD to help them address these things in time for the review and they end up a footnote in the review. The rest of us smucks have to wait 2 weeks in a ticket queue and MIGHT get contacted, and the issue MIGHT get resolved. I submitted a couple tickets to AMD in the past about game breaking bugs, and driver issues with multi-monitor. You know what I heard back? Nothing.

    As to my opinion on Vega? That was formed as a launch owner of Vega 56 and Vega 64 LC cards and hardened over the first three months of ownership, after which point I sold them in disgust. (reference Post 1, Post 2, Post 3 )

    Is my ill feeling toward AMD's Vega's terrible launch drivers still accurate nearly 1.5 years later against current drivers?
    Probably not. Which is why I recommended an AMD Vega 64 to a friend just two weeks ago.

    I knew time and attention would get the driver bugs sorted out on Vega at the time I sold them I stated the same in Post 3 of those links as I was selling them. That didn't fix the infuriation I felt by spending a lot of money on hardware with beta drivers - products I couldn't even use.

    I would not have bought if reviewers hadn't swept known issues under the rug and instead felt empowered to call a spade a spade and grade without fear of repercussions and loss of future demo hardware to review. If reviewers had hamstrung AMD for launching Vega with crap drivers, then maybe this subsequent product Radeon VII would have been delayed for launch until drivers were more reliable to avoid similar discourse. = Win for everyone!


    Reviewers need to start kneecapping products for bad launch drivers. That'll fix the ongoing issue much faster than giving them a second place ribbon and waxing poetic about what will/might/could/should be.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
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  29. Gideon

    Gideon [H]ard|Gawd

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    Man your still bitter over the Vega issues you had. Drivers from both companies have caused all kind of issues for people, hell I remember all the custom startup executables I had for DOS back in the day so a damn game would actually run on my machine. Modern code is even far more complex then it was back in the DOS days and yeah sometimes we just have to wait for a updated driver. At least these launch drivers are not killing cards like a certain Nvidia driver did and AMD released fixed ones on the 14th so thats pretty fast. Also everyone knows if you rush out and buy the latest tech your likely to run into issues, part of the love hate relationship.
     
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  30. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    While you aren't wrong, we really shouldn't be excusing bad launches. AMD fixed it quickly, thankfully, but the state the VII launched in is unacceptable. They never should have launched the card with drivers that bad. Not only is it bad that customers had to deal with that, it reflects very poorly on the card itself as those issues are now widely reported in reviews of it. That is what people are going to think about when they think about the card. Same way Turing cards will always be thought of in terms of "space invaders" going forward. Early adopter issues can happen, but that doesn't mean they should be excused and swept under the rug.
     
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  31. Gideon

    Gideon [H]ard|Gawd

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    I didn't really see anyone sweeping it under the rug as several sites all reported issues with the drivers and it was reported in the video as well. But see I come from the car manufacturing world and yeah we dont skip a release because of software issues we launch them anyway and drop software updates to the dealerships to do when the cars come back for service work. It's not that I agree it should be that way but I understand why that happens.
     
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  32. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    I generally like adoredtv as a high level summary to listen to. I don’t usually put my weight into it. More just for another opinion.

    I do find it interesting how forgiving some are on AMD’s drivers but yet any growing pains at all with ray tracing is completely unacceptable.
     
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  33. BloodyIron

    BloodyIron 2[H]4U

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    I'm hot foo the VII but I'll hold off to see what AIB's can do. Reference cards on both camps are meh IMO.