A Frightening Trend In Online Gaming

B

Banana King

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
74
I am beginning to notice a frightening trend when playing games ("realistic" PC shooters, specifically) online. It seems that the already huge population of people who derive the majority of their kills through randomly throwing of grenades is growing. On the tactical side, a grenade should not be utilized as one's primary weapon. It should be used when a large group of enemies is encountered in tight formation. On the entertainment side, I believe that random grenade kills are quite cheap and rather irritating to many players who are there to have fun and not to take advantage of the game's parameters. I do not believe that grenades should be removed from games, for there is something truly satisfying abut seeing a chain of kills appearing on one's screen. I do believe, however, that something should be done to limit their exploitation in online matches.
 
i disagree completely, most nade kills are the result of a skillful throw. I have yet to play a "modern" tactical shooter where the blast radius on nades was ridiculous and the damage given was completely unbalanced. I'm assuming you're talking about CoD4, at which point you need to quit camping and avoid radar detection... it's that simple. nades in graw2, cs:s, cod4, rs:v, and even gta4 are completely reasonable.
 
I'm talking about those people who run up to a wall, lob a grenade in the general direction of the enemy's spawn point, and wait for the kills.

It's especially fun when you've just respawned and instantly die.

*Edit* I'm not bashing grenades, only those that use them to compromise the fun (and patience) of other players with random throws. Oh, and I'm talking about G.R.A.W. for the PC.
 
its the worst on round-based maps where everyone gets greandes. remember medal of honor: allied assault demo? the map with the church, forgot what it was called.

anyway, that was grenade spam out of control. you would be on a 15v15 server. everyone gets, what 3 grenades? maybe even more, it was round-based, so at the beginning its just a constant explosion sound, grenades flying over buildings, explosions on the streets, it was just chaos. nothing tactical about it. have to admit it was still fun as hell.

i still remember seeing my teamates with their heads facing the sky and all of these dots in the sky hurling over buildings toward the enemy.
 
In GAMES, people have the right to experiment with whatever tactics they want whether it conforms to intended realism or not. I won't gimp myself in a game and give up those "luck" kills just so others can do tactical roleplaying.

It is the job of the developer to ensure that the game has enough incentive to keep people from playing outside of the game's intended scope (for example having a lot of hostages and/or hostage killing penalties to keep loose frag grenades to a minimum). A good player will always take advantage of gameplay mechanics.
 
Volume said:
In GAMES, people have the right to experiment with whatever tactics they want whether it conforms to intended realism or not. I won't gimp myself in a game and give up those "luck" kills just so others can do tactical roleplaying.

It is the job of the developer to ensure that the game has enough incentive to keep people from playing outside of the game's intended scope (for example having a lot of hostages and/or hostage killing penalties to keep loose frag grenades to a minimum). A good player will always take advantage of gameplay mechanics.
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funny, people who use wall-hacks and aim-bots have a similar mentality.
 
Volume said:
In GAMES, people have the right to experiment with whatever tactics they want whether it conforms to intended realism or not. I won't gimp myself in a game and give up those "luck" kills just so others can do tactical roleplaying.

It is the job of the developer to ensure that the game has enough incentive to keep people from playing outside of the game's intended scope (for example having a lot of hostages and/or hostage killing penalties to keep loose frag grenades to a minimum). A good player will always take advantage of gameplay mechanics.
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This is true, but then wouldn't it make sense to classify servers based upon player's style instead of just game type?

I know that Xbox Live has attempted to do this with Gamer Zones, though such features should be specific to the game, not just the network it's featured upon.
 
Banana King said:
I'm talking about those people who run up to a wall, lob a grenade in the general direction of the enemy's spawn point, and wait for the kills.
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Are you sure they're not 'tacnades'? People devote a lot of time to learning where and when to line up throws.

I went on a CoD4 server - a US one - with the most asinine and inane rules dictating play ever: you weren't allowed to use flashbangs, stun grenades, frag grenades, helicopters, airstrikes, RPGs or grenade launchers within twenty seconds. Why? FUCK YOU, that's why.
You weren't allowed to use grenades unless you'd seen someone - so hearing them shuffling around on the other side of a wall wasn't good enough - or were usng it to clear a room and you had to run in after it. You had to use ironsights for any kills, and you were forbidden to apologise for TKs in team-chat: it had to be global. You also weren't allowed to jump. That was bunnyhopping, apparently. Jumping once constitutes bunnyhopping.

Tying people's hands is not fun. I cannot understand the reasoning behind shelling out extortionate amounts of money for a debranded thirty-slot server and banning anyone that 'grenade spammed' - threw a frag over a wall. I ended up editing my class to allow me to shoot RPGs at the fucking floor at each spawn, as did a few other people on both teams.

In summary: the game was designed the way it was. If it's not for you, don't cripple people or dictate how they should play, play something else or find another server.

Incidentally I'd say a more frightening trend is everyone's inability to write coherent fucking english.

'YOUR GAY FOUR SAYIN IM AN RETARD U LOOSER IT DOSENT MATER ITS THE INTERNET NOT A FUCKEN ENGLIS CLASS'.
 
It's fine in CoD4 unless they trot out the 3x grenade ability. If they have it they just throw 2 downfield at a radar blip and hope it pops a free kill. If you've only got one, you're encouraged to save that until you can cook up a sure-fire kill instead.

However, it's negated by multi-path mapping or modes that don't involve rounds. With rounds all enemies spawn in the same place in a known direction so the urge to throw out random grenades rises. This behavior has been the case ever since round-based spawning has been mixed with grenades. In deathmatch the grenades are not a problem because enemies scattered every direction discourages people from spending 2-3 seconds to cook a grenade to throw at an unknown target.

There's no skill involved in these pre-battle tosses, but it's just annoying, not game-breaking. Slowing down at round start lets the first grenade wave pop in front of you, then you can charge past. Naturally, you'll need to have your team throw a reciprocal wave to force the enemy to slow down as well. It's still balanced since both sides can do it, then the game continues like normal. For example, I put a grenade in the exact same spot and time in Backlot at round start because that is exactly where the fastest runner on the enemy team will be at that point in time. But again, that's not skill, just knowledge and a trivial bit of timing.

Having an multiple grenades encourages guess-throws. Give them all 1 grenade maximum. Make them think carefully about if this grenade should be used at random or saved to kill a known threat around a corner. If they have grenades to spare people will always fire them at random.
 
damonposey said:
funny, people who use wall-hacks and aim-bots have a similar mentality.
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Yes, because third party programs running on top of the game are the same as using weapons created, implemented, and left in the game by the people who designed the game.
 
Technoob said:
Yes, because third party programs running on top of the game are the same as using weapons created, implemented, and left in the game by the people who designed the game.
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some think so. hey its the developers job to keep it from happening right? whatever it takes to win, thats the mentality.
 
It's called creativity. If you aren't modifying the game itself with code and you aren't using a cheat in game, then you should be able to explore tactics as freely as you like. If you see someone doing it to you, you should be skillful enough to return the service. If you can't, then it isn't their fault that they're better at the game than you are.
 
It is cheap imo in CoD4, mainly on the ship map and the one , forgot it's name, where people always throw a nade as the terrorist come from that small ruin building from the other side of the map.
 
infornographer said:
It's called creativity. If you aren't modifying the game itself with code and you aren't using a cheat in game, then you should be able to explore tactics as freely as you like. If you see someone doing it to you, you should be skillful enough to return the service. If you can't, then it isn't their fault that they're better at the game than you are.
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I didn't know that scoring kills by randomly throwing grenades makes you a better player.
 
Banana King said:
I didn't know that scoring kills by randomly throwing grenades makes you a better player.
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Neither did the guy who chainsawed me from behind on the first day he picked up gears of war while I was in a skillful duel for position with another enemy.

Shit happens in games, lots of skill levels playing. Some people hold down full auto spraying and praying and manage to get kills. I guess they should all be banned because they didn't get the kill on purpose with maximun skillz?
 
Stiler said:
It is cheap imo in CoD4, mainly on the ship map and the one , forgot it's name, where people always throw a nade as the terrorist come from that small ruin building from the other side of the map.
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The ship one is terrible.

I usually just wait until the first wave of them passes- then run through.
 
Wally said:
Are you sure they're not 'tacnades'? People devote a lot of time to learning where and when to line up throws.

I went on a CoD4 server - a US one - with the most asinine and inane rules dictating play ever: you weren't allowed to use flashbangs, stun grenades, frag grenades, helicopters, airstrikes, RPGs or grenade launchers within twenty seconds. Why? FUCK YOU, that's why.
You weren't allowed to use grenades unless you'd seen someone - so hearing them shuffling around on the other side of a wall wasn't good enough - or were usng it to clear a room and you had to run in after it. You had to use ironsights for any kills, and you were forbidden to apologise for TKs in team-chat: it had to be global. You also weren't allowed to jump. That was bunnyhopping, apparently. Jumping once constitutes bunnyhopping.

Tying people's hands is not fun. I cannot understand the reasoning behind shelling out extortionate amounts of money for a debranded thirty-slot server and banning anyone that 'grenade spammed' - threw a frag over a wall. I ended up editing my class to allow me to shoot RPGs at the fucking floor at each spawn, as did a few other people on both teams.

In summary: the game was designed the way it was. If it's not for you, don't cripple people or dictate how they should play, play something else or find another server.

Incidentally I'd say a more frightening trend is everyone's inability to write coherent fucking english.

'YOUR GAY FOUR SAYIN IM AN RETARD U LOOSER IT DOSENT MATER ITS THE INTERNET NOT A FUCKEN ENGLIS CLASS'.
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You sure are emotional about this.
 
this is just lame. they put grenades in the game so use them. However you see fit, toss away. It's perfectly tacticle to chuck nades and get kills. Next you'll be wanting to outlaw any guns other than the ones you deem fit. It's not exactly tacticle to play snipers in FPS games either, because "it's not honorable to hide and shoot when nobody can see you."

So they chuck nades, it just means they have less later in the round. I'm not speaking from cod4 however. But I do play FPS. mainly BF2. people claymore whore in BF2 but it's part of the game. sure it's annoying but it's in the game. Implying that it's similar to a hack or "anything to win" is rediculous. I shoot my gun at people in the back if they don't see me, maybe I should alert them.

I could see it be an issue if a player had 20+ grenades, but 3, that's nothing. Maybe delay spawning in at the start of rounds or stop playing. I hate servers that limit how you play the game because they whine. It's a war based game, there are really grenades out there and sometimes real soldiers have been known to throw a grenade in the general vicinity of where they believe a group of enemies are.
 
In CoD4 its not so much the grenade kills that annoy me, its the nonstop spamming of air strikes and helicopters that happens on some servers. You could say that people doing it are skill, but in most cases no. These people are just lobbing their 3 grenades at the many targets on their radar, getting them enough kills for the air strikes/helicopters. Then 3/4 the time they get enough kills via the helicopter/air strike for them to do it again immediatly as they are over with. Have I done this myself? Yes. Did I have alot of fun? Yes, but my fun cause a bunch of grief to the rest of the players and took almost no skill to do it. I had about 85kills/7deaths the entire round and only 15 of those kills were from my rifle. The eziest way for them to prevent this without removing game mechanics completely is to only allow rifle kills to count twards UAV/Air Strikes/Helicopters
 
Also nadespam has been around forever. As early as Team Fortress Classic, possibly earlier. It's not a "new trend".
 
I think part of the problem is the game type. I play CoD 4 on Team Deathmatch as a sniper. People grenade spam 'cause they know that if they get one kill that they break even. If they die, they get another grenade. I would prefer a Capture the Flag mode, like the one from Vietcong. In that, you needed to stay alive. Therefore, people tended to save their nades. Another deterrent from spamming was that you had to swap to them like another weapon. This made you vulnerable, so you only used them when you had to.

I usually do not spam. I do like smoke grenades if I need to retreat. I simply throw one down and run. I may throw my grenade as I go to take out anyone following me.
 
In real battlefields, if people respawned after death and had the grenade supply that games leave you with, you can BET that there would be serious .. nadespam all the time.
 
Imbroglio said:
i disagree completely, most nade kills are the result of a skillful throw. I have yet to play a "modern" tactical shooter where the blast radius on nades was ridiculous and the damage given was completely unbalanced. I'm assuming you're talking about CoD4, at which point you need to quit camping and avoid radar detection... it's that simple. nades in graw2, cs:s, cod4, rs:v, and even gta4 are completely reasonable.
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I've never been just randomly killed by grenade throwing. Anytime I've been killed with a grenade in Call of Duty 4 it has been a result of someone skillfully throwing one into a room and me dying because I either didn't see it or because I couldn't get out of the room. Grenades are typically used to clear out rooms and flush out targets. That's how I've always seen them get used.

Now the launched grenades are another matter.
 
to the OP:

i agree, most "realistic" games are utter crap, and hardly skill based

Quake 3, UT2004, UT3 ..... those are probably more your style.... all skill based, hardly any luck involved

if you want something more slow paced, and way less DM focused, get TF2
 
Technoob said:
Neither did the guy who chainsawed me from behind on the first day he picked up gears of war while I was in a skillful duel for position with another enemy.

Shit happens in games, lots of skill levels playing. Some people hold down full auto spraying and praying and manage to get kills. I guess they should all be banned because they didn't get the kill on purpose with maximun skillz?
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QFT

Get over it OP. If you can't learn to survive, don't play the game. The grenades are there, we can use them however we want.
 
Discovered heavy nade spamming when I first played CoD1 online. While it was annoying as a nub to get pegged in the face with a pineapple, eventually you learn how to avoid, then appreciate it. In CoD, it kind of enhanced the war experience. Gun fire, germans/allies screaming, and explosions only helped the immersion.
 
CKMorpheus said:
QFT

Get over it OP. If you can't learn to survive, don't play the game. The grenades are there, we can use them however we want.
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Agreed. Purpose of a nade is to stun, kill and or blind people. If you do any of the above when you toss one, then grats.. you used them for what they are worth.
 
SPARTAN VI said:
Discovered heavy nade spamming when I first played CoD1 online. While it was annoying as a nub to get pegged in the face with a pineapple, eventually you learn how to avoid, then appreciate it. In CoD, it kind of enhanced the war experience. Gun fire, germans/allies screaming, and explosions only helped the immersion.
Click to expand...

Definitely helped set a standard... Nothing else like it out there. Hopefully will encourage some other developers to work in the same fashion ;)

COD4 is one of the few games that has the best of both worlds: gameplay AND graphics.
 
Has anyone mentioned Shipment in COD4? That is a perfect example.
 
COD4 isn't the only "realistic" shooter around. Sheesh. Enemy Terrritory: Quake Wars (ETQW) is on the up and up and a hard game to master.

Regardless, the OP sounds like he was spawned camped all to hell with grenade spam and got pissed off about it and made a thread to bitch. We've all been there son. Grenades are a part of modern warfare, and it takes actual skill to pull of a meaningful nade throw.
 
infornographer said:
It's called creativity. If you aren't modifying the game itself with code and you aren't using a cheat in game, then you should be able to explore tactics as freely as you like. If you see someone doing it to you, you should be skillful enough to return the service. If you can't, then it isn't their fault that they're better at the game than you are.
Click to expand...

agreed

l2p
 
I think the root of the problem is that people learn the maps so well that they can blindly throw grenades into areas they expect people to be either camping or at least have a high throughput of people (such as outside spawn)

Larger more complex maps would definately help, games like CoD4 are just way too cramped, play a game like black hawk down online (fun back in its day) and grenade spamming was useless because there's just too many back allys the enemy could take that there was no "learning" where they'd be tactic.

I'm actually getting a bit bored of the small city/urban maps in games today, we've got the technology to have much larger sprawling maps, these small corridoor maps get so boring really quickly, it's the same attack path each time and you know where all the enemies will be, of course people spam grenades, it's a few extra kills each round essentially for free.

It also doesn't help that most peoples battlefield awareness is REALLY bad on average, most people find it hard to tell if a grenade has just landed near them.

*edit*

Also...as far as setting custom rules go, I think thats perfectly acceptable, if somoene buys/rents their own server they have every right set whatever rules they please, as long as they state said rules when you enter the server using some sort of MOTD I don't have a problem with that. If you don't like rules then leave, simple as that.
 
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