7970 pricing ....

Discussion in 'AMD Flavor' started by Elmy, Dec 17, 2011.

  1. WorldExclusive

    WorldExclusive [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,867
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    If people are willing to pay the mark up that's on them, but the list price is what is being debated. The 5870 and 6970 both listed below $400. The 7970 would be the first time AMD goes above that in years for a single GPU.
    AMD customers typically are looking for a value solution and charging $400-500 will cut their customer base short. They still will sell out, but after stock meets demand, people will rather get Nvidia's next card over the 7970 if both are $500.

    Here's hoping for $380-425. All speculation of performance commands X price are rumors and assumptions until NDA is lifted.
    Just last year the 6970 was forecast to be a $450-500 also until they didn't live up to expectation of beating the GTX 580.

    I agree with this article:
    http://alienbabeltech.com/main/amds...ming-hd-7970-exposed-a-short-lived-video-card

    If they price it at $500, it's reign will be short lived.
     
  2. Calwen

    Calwen [H]Lite

    Messages:
    107
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2003
    How much faster is still under speculation, but it will be faster than the 580. Although we will be seeing 580 price cuts, there is no reason for AMD to ship a GPU at lower than $500 if they have the fastest single GPU. Will the reign be short lived? Maybe. But when the 680/780 or whatever rolls around, then they can drop the price. For now they have costs to recoup, and this new process is very expensive. In order to offset their expenses, I doubt they'll undercut the 580 by $100 upon release; expect that undercutting to occur against Kepler.
     
  3. dragonstongue

    dragonstongue 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,149
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    Yep, they need to charge what the market will bear, if they are the fastest thing available for months, you can be sure they will charge what prices they can, just as Nvidia always does. Generally speaking, as far as MSRP is concerned AMD/ATI for the most part has a reasonable track record of being "fairly priced" in regards to performance given, and to what they and competition has on the line at the time.

    As far as people gettiing Nvidias card even if both are at the same price, that depends on multiple things, if it was just supply, pricing, or drivers, well then AMD or Nvidia wouldn`t sell a single one, I know plenty of folks that switched to AMD this year on the 6k series, mainly, they were "good enough" and the prices were "fair" Nvidia may have slightly higher ROI and higher supply, but that doesnt guarantee anything if they ship cards that dont do what they should, of coure this goes for AMD as well.

    The market is a very strange beast, even the best of plans go astray sometimes, I believe they will both do well, however, I more trust AMD performance figures for thier GPU then I trust Nvidia for the same, they are both excellent in thier own regard, some favor stability or power consumed, some favor best performance available.

    At least one thing can be sure, it is going to be a damn interesting newq year for computer parts, especially the fundamental design chopices being made/shipped as we speculate :)
     
  4. WorldExclusive

    WorldExclusive [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,867
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Good points. We'll see. It will be interesting to see if people will choose AMDs 3GB 7970 over Nvidia's 3GB 580.
    Same price range but different user experiences. If someone is going with multiple monitors, the 7970 is the way to go IMO. Mixed resolution support would be the main reason I would go AMD.
    I've been waiting to setup a 20/30/20 Eyefinity setup since the tech was released.
     
  5. dragonstongue

    dragonstongue 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,149
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    well, having used Radeons for awhile, and knowing many people that use both, I actually kind of prefer the way ATI does thier eye candy, yes there is some finiky things always is with both camps, but I find ATI or AMD if you prefer, to do shadows, lighting, blooming and such a little more "realistic" seems more natural to me eyes comparing the same setting same monitor etc.

    Either way, I look forward to the release of these puppies, I may not be able to afford a 7970 or 7950 but I wlll try my best, cause I know the 6950 was not much more then 6870 when I got mine, maybe $50, and was worth that cost overall. Here is hoping it is all that and a bag of cookies and Nvidia has no direct answer to the 7900 series :)
     
  6. chithanh

    chithanh Gawd

    Messages:
    781
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2010
    Even if you are a loyal AMD customer and would never consider buying NVidia (or vice versa), you should hope that they have something competitive to offer soon. This keeps one company from charging monopoly prices for their top gear, as was the case with GTX260/280 before the HD4870 launched or you can still see with high-end Intel CPUs.
     
  7. dragonstongue

    dragonstongue 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,149
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    True that, I still remember the prices they were willing to charge for the 200 series before AMD took them by surprise, they most certianly did not stay there long, as least they had almost no choice but to drop thier prices to be competitive. The older gens such as 8800 series you could clearly see the result of the pricing get out of hand. The new cpu and new gpu at least in cpu case they are fair for "most" of the lineup, but for not much of a bump in performance/features the prices are astronomical real fast, gpu, well the best are still $ but they are not totally unreasonable.

    Example is to buy 2 cards or a single X2 card, the X2 card in its own right is "reasonable" for those willing to pay that price, for the rest of use, at least we have options for a little less with similar performance. For the flagship cards, I still see AMD as being a little more resonable overall, may not have the best performance, same as thier cpu side, but they are very much competitive, and fair, and seem to honestly try their darndest to release what needs to be, no one can fault them for having issues, they all have them, at least, to my opinion, AMD does not try to wipe in under a rug, if anything, they try to fix the problems as fast as time, or resources will allow.

    Anyways, 100% agree with needing the competition, which is why I hope, that more folks try to be resonable and remember what happens when there wasnt any. If it will work just as well, maybe a little less so but cost a bit less, someitmes its worth supporting the little guy, not because he is the little guy, but rather if we don`t the big guy will steal all our lunch monies :)
     
  8. Darksword

    Darksword Gawd

    Messages:
    819
    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2009
    If the MSRP is $499.99 or less I'll pick up a 7970. 25% faster than a GTX580 means it'll be about 60% faster than the 5870 1GB I have now.

    Let's not forget the 7950. Even if it's 15% slower than the 7970 it'll still be slightly faster than a 580, and cost considerably less.
     
  9. Lord_Exodia

    Lord_Exodia [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    6,997
    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2005
    I'm hoping the 7950s unlock to all 2048 shaders, then I'm in for 2. :D
     
  10. aintz

    aintz [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,043
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    just gonna wait till prices come down a bit since im a lil short on cash and 4890 does fine at the games i currently play.
     
  11. Robin B

    Robin B Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    209
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2004
  12. SonDa5

    SonDa5 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,403
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    I'm waiting till January to see how the HD7950 compares. If the pricing is lousy I'm waiting to see what NVIDIA has to offer in 28nm flavor. If pricing is terrible I'll keep my GTX470 till the prices come down.
     
  13. Elmy

    Elmy Gawd

    Messages:
    922
    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2009
    Looks like the 7970 will be 549.99 and not be available to purchase for couple more weeks...
     
  14. Marcdaddy

    Marcdaddy 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,627
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    $549 is pricey compared to the 6970, when I bought them they were $379 each and I'm running 3 of them. As much as I thought I'd buy 3 of these to replace my Tri-Fire setup that's a big jump in price.
     
  15. jorojr

    jorojr Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    396
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2005
    For $550 ($1100 effectively for X-fire), I'm more than likely going to wait to see what Kepler has to offer. [H]'s review may change my mind, but the performance increase will have to be significant over my unlocked 6950's.
     
  16. Astral Abyss

    Astral Abyss 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,660
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2004
    $549 is a bit much and I just lost some of my interest. I could wait for Kepler at that price unless the reviews are glowing. I need more video RAM badly for my multi-monitor setup but it's hard to justify an expensive, minor upgrade right at Christmas.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2011
  17. Zorachus

    Zorachus [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    8,792
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2006
    At that price, then the single 7970 must be very close in performance to the dual 6990, but run cooler and more efficient on power. I could see that being the case easily. Everyone is saying this 7900 series is a major leap forward in technology, ATI's biggest update in five + years according to most rumors.

    A 9700Pro repeat :eek: :D bring it on :)
     
  18. Porter_

    Porter_ [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,875
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2007
    i hear ya, i need more VRAM even for my lowly 1080 screen.
     
  19. larkin

    larkin Gawd

    Messages:
    907
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2005
    Where does this wisdom come from that you should get the performance of a part currently priced at $750 (6990) for $550? Also, the 6970 is priced at $360 right now, why should you get double the performance for $550? The wishful thinking machine is strong with you.
     
  20. Zorachus

    Zorachus [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    8,792
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2006
    Based on a lot of comments I read on Rage3D, they say that AMD is striving for 6990 performance on their next gen high end single card. And ATI has done that in the past, the single 5870 was close in performance to the dual 4870X2, and most of the time the 5870 was slightly better, and far cheaper too.
     
  21. That's_Corporate

    That's_Corporate [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,738
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    as a 4870x2 owner, i reluctantly admit you're right hehe
     
  22. Forceman

    Forceman [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,243
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2005
    How much of that was due to poor Crossfire scaling though? The 6xxx cards scale a lot better than the 4xxxs did, if I remember correctly.
     
  23. Arcygenical

    Arcygenical Will Watercool for Crack

    Messages:
    24,752
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2005
    Haha. Fuck that.

    I'm not putting up with more ATI drivers for that price.

    Seriously, I'm thinking I should bill ATI for all the time I put in, trying to find various fixes to HUGE TITLE GAMES (think, Skyrim, BF3, SWTOR) that their drivers should have fixed, but did not. At minimum wage (about what they pay their driver teams, I hope) I could get around 70$ off these cards and make them affordable.
     
  24. WorldExclusive

    WorldExclusive [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,867
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
  25. larkin

    larkin Gawd

    Messages:
    907
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2005
    GTX 780 is complete fiction fed by NV to the bottom feeder blogs on the eve of the 7970 launch. Don't believe it.
     
  26. Forceman

    Forceman [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,243
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2005
    In what respect? We all know Kepler is coming.
     
  27. larkin

    larkin Gawd

    Messages:
    907
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2005
    The performance slide from the internet department of fake performance slides department. Also the garbage that they are OMG skipping a 680 model and going STRIGHT for 780. It's all complete garbage. Semiaccurate admins have been right about most everything relating to the next gen gfx cards, including when charlie (an admin) said months ago that XDR2 ram was simply NOT going to happen with Tahiti.

    He chimes in on the state of things here
     
  28. dragonstongue

    dragonstongue 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,149
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    well, they didnt do a mass release of GTX300 so why wouldn`t they up it to 700 series?

    Also, these look to be sick cards all in all, very nice design elements in almost every regard, expensive sure, but the GTX580 are 590 are also very expensive, this 7970 is going to be pricey, it competes and exceeds GTX580 in almost every regard, the power consumption is also stellar.

    So basically, for those whom have the coin, this is better then GTX580, for those who do not have as much, the 7950 when it gets out there might be the better answer, that and do not forget they just released 12.1 preview, which brought ALOT of needed changes for creating your own profiles and such.

    Do not hate on AMD for doing the best they are able to, they are nowhere near the $ capacity for either GPU or CPU and yet they are most certainly competitive in every regard.

    You dont like them(AMD/ATI) thats ok, dont piss on thier cornflakes because of your opinion, give em credit where it is do, I left Nvidia cause I was tired of thier cards failing on me and not being given warranty support or replacement(that doesnt mean I still do not recommend them after I do some deep research) I have not had any of the 4 Radeons I have owned and used fail on me(except thier cooling fans, bearings wear out with constant high rpm :p) there is always going to be some kind of issue I dont care what anyone says, technology, especially gpu and cpu for as complicated as they are, are going to have some issues, they are designed by human engineering afterall :)
     
  29. Zorachus

    Zorachus [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    8,792
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2006
    $550 is crazy for AMD to charge for the new single 7970, based on previous releases this is just not matching up, and way out of line.

    I bought the top end single card 5870 at launch for like $375 two years ago brand new, at the time it was equally as fast as the previous high end dual GPU 4870X2. But the 7970 is not even matching the performance of the old dual GPU 6990. In reality this is no different, my 5870 single card is in line with the 7970, and the 4870X2 is in line with the 6990, meaning the 5870 was the next gen top single card matching the performance of the previous dual card 4870X2, and the 5870 was $375 or so. But now the 7970 is not even matching the previous dual 6990, but at $550 price point, that does not make sense.

    WTF is AMD smoking ?
     
  30. Cool Vibrations

    Cool Vibrations Gawd

    Messages:
    660
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2008
    Is this a joke? I snapped my gtx580 3gb for around 600 + tax a few months ago and there's people here who are upset with a card that is cheaper and faster? :confused:
     
  31. Superfly3176

    Superfly3176 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,728
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    The we have no competition grass
     
  32. Zorachus

    Zorachus [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    8,792
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2006
    But the GTX-580 is last years tech, the 7970 is the next generation card, and is just barely a little faster then the old 580. Not a fair comparison. The 7970 better damn well be better than the old GTX-580, the big questions is how does it compare to the GTX-680 or whatever nVidia will name their next gen single card due out early next year ?

    It would be a shock if nVidia's next gen card isn't a fair bit faster then the 580, and most likely sell for a similar price of $549-$599, and that is where the 7970 price point will seem off. I would guess, just pulling this out of my ass the GTX-680 could at least be 25% than the 7970, but sell at a close price range to $550. AMD will have no choice but to reduce the 7970 pricing then.

    What happened to the good old days of next gen cards being like 75% - 100% faster than the previous generation. I recall classic releases like the Radeon 9700Pro domination or the GeForce 8800GTX destroying all, and the HD 5870 matching performance of the 4870X2. I guess those days of major leaps forward in performance are gone ?

    Time will tell
     
  33. Yoda4561

    Yoda4561 Gawd

    Messages:
    896
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    The price will drop when supplies improve and Nvidia has something faster and is priced agressively. In the meantime it's best to make the most profit off what are sure to be a limited number of cards. The low price of the 5870 was IMO a really cool move for consumers, but in financial terms for AMD just didn't work out. You can always drop prices after launch, raising them because your competition missed deadlines and underperformed is next to impossible.
     
  34. That's_Corporate

    That's_Corporate [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,738
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    but the only reason the cards are priced at $549 is because there's no competition - not because those cards actually cost as much as a 580 to make

    once some competition comes, you'll see 7970's priced much, much lower; then we're back to two of these cards being an INSANE value at higher resolutions (like their predecessors)
     
  35. Omophorus

    Omophorus Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    146
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    What incentive is there to focus on being 75-100% faster for gaming, versus massively increasing compute performance? Most PC games these days are badly-done console ports using primarily DX9 render paths (with a few exceptions).

    Margins on even top-end gaming parts pale in comparison to enterprise-oriented products. AMD could easily sell the exact same GPU die in a FirePro card (targeted towards workstation performance) or a <insert generic name here>Pro server card specifically for GPU compute for 2-4x the cost (or more!) of the 7970.

    The 7970 is more expensive and much faster than a stock-clock 580. The 7970 is somewhat faster and less expensive than factory-overclocked 3GB 580s.

    Like Yoda said... the small-die strategy coupled with aggressive pricing was great for consumers, but wasn't hugely profitable for AMD. They are better off maintaining a sensible die size, increasing performance to be competitive or leapfrog the green team by a bit, and bump up margins, especially at launch. If you want future generations of AMD chips to continue to be competitive, a strategy change is essential.

    I'm with everyone who says that if anyone is underwhelmed by the 7970, they had unrealistic expectations, or blinded themselves to market realities with the hope that AMD would make the product they want to buy and not the product it can sell profitably.

    I was on the fence about GPU compute for a very long time, but there are plenty of applications where APUs or even GPU clusters paired with ARM CPUs are much faster than traditional x86 CPUs. It would be stupid of AMD to not aim to compete (or more accurately, take the lead in) that space, especially when it's several times more profitable than desktop graphics, even in the enthusiast segment, and gives the company breathing space whilst its traditional x86 CPUs are slow, uncompetitive dogs that are not going to be profit leaders.
     
  36. jober1

    jober1 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    204
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2011
    I don't see anything wrong with the price at all. The price/performance is perfectly acceptable compared to what's out right now. AMD still has to sell their 6xxx cards in large volumes at reasonable margins. Obviously pricing the 7970 at $370 would force a price drop of their other cards, which still need to be sold. I imagine there is tons of R&D involved here, and there will be limited supply for a while I am sure. Really, who knows what kind of expenses are involved and need to be recuperated to be profitable, and who knows what Nvidia's pricing will look like next gen.

    Personally, I was hoping it would be a bit faster, I wouldn't have minded if it was $600-$650, but I wanted a good solid 50% increase over a GTX580. I will at least wait until January myself and see what 7950's look like. I also wonder how the crossfire performs on an 8x/8x Z68.
     
  37. dragonstongue

    dragonstongue 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,149
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    well, trhere are many ways to put this, but seeing as AMD had a little headroom, they may be able to make a few more $ this way, and pump that into thier next card lineup, after all, money means development.

    Also in a very general sence, this is a HUGE change compared to thier previous designs, who knows how much extra performance they will be able to get out of it, once they, and devs have had a chance to chip away at it.

    Yes its expensive, but to use less power, be more fficent clock for clock, have huge compute power, run cooler, and in a broad sence be priced like the 580 why is anyone complaining, it is top of the litter, it is going to have top of the litter pricing, I can guarantee you though, like all other launches, if Nvidia brings something to the table that really trounces it, the prices will drop real fast, they are just trying to make as much as they can to recoup development costs, which are some huge $$$$ no doubt.

    I myself as a user like to see AMD be as low cost as possible, but maybe this is why they are not as competative, they do not have the funds to waste on giving cards to devs, or proper full blown development time, the 4k-5k-6k series were all priced below Nvidias offerings, and yet were quite competitive, you cannot expect that to happen every launch, especially seeing as this is WAY different Arch then they have ever done, and am sure it cost lots more time to get it right, have no fear, the prices will drop, let them milk it for now, they deserve as much for being fair as they have with last 4 launches(in my opinion)

    Simply put, AMD knows CPU side WAY better then Nvidia ever has, so if this is meant to be a computer power house, AMD might very well increase its performance like crazy once they have had time to tinker with its drivers, bioses and such(they have already had at least one bios given to review sites for OC purposes and such, more like X86 code, means maybe easier to make custom firmware compared to before?)

    Crossfire performance should also be stellar, one review I read looked at that and PCI-e 3 performance, both were excellent, and in the 7970 case, PCI-e 3.0 really makes a massive gain when it comes to using the GPU for compute tasks where it can really take use of its design, something games truly do not take best advantage of(yet) AMD is far from done, and has been showing exactly that, design it the best you can, do what you can in driver side, and keep making each launch have some cool little tricks in it.
     
  38. That's_Corporate

    That's_Corporate [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,738
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    solid post, [H]omie
     
  39. dragonstongue

    dragonstongue 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    3,149
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    Thanks :)

    I just find it funny, alot of folks ream on AMD but no one really gets finiky with Intel or Nvidia, both of whom have done far, far worse launches and support then AMD had, they sweep it under a rug, and still, folks come a crawling. Thank god Nvidia or Intel were not our presidents or politicians, we would be eating oatmeal and paying our entire life savings for the "privalege" :p

    Show them good faith, and help them out, after all how do they know if there is problems if we just rage quit and not try to let them know what we need, or needs some changing. At least they build thier products the best they can, and built well for that matter. Bo friggin who if the shadows dont look quite right, or textures flicker now and then, was it a good cost, does it play well? Well then deal with it and be happy AMD is here so we are not paying 5x the price for 50x less performance then what we have been getting :)
     
  40. That's_Corporate

    That's_Corporate [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,738
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2006
    no kidding

    people should be happy that performance is close and competition is tight between AMD and nVidia. no matter what camp you're in, you win in the end.

    now if only we could get that sort of competition in the CPU space...

    :p