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5870 - $299

BETA. said:
If the 5870 indeed performs on par or even marginally better than the GTX295 it would be an embarrassing loss for Nvidia and GTX295 owners because that would mean the selling value will have to be about 40% less of what it is going for now just to remain competitive. And then there's resell value...
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It is NOT embarrassing for nVidia, if a next generation card beats it's previous out dated card, like the 5870 will do to the 295 next month. Because nVidia will have their fun come Nov/Dec with their next gen GTX-380 kicking all sorts of ass. That's the cycle in this business, what comes around usually goes around :)
 
bill_d said:
a 5870 should be alittle faster then a 4870x2 where does that put it to the gtx295
a 5870 should cost less to make than a 4870x2 and the x2 is $359
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102768
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Just because the 5870 is cheaper to produce than the 4870x2 doesn't mean it is faster. Those are completely different subjects.

The 5870 will very likely not be faster than the 4870x2 in SLI aware games. That would be a miracle. Really, a $300 card outperforming a $350 card that has two 4870's? That's not realistic. But neither you or I can cite evidence or proof so all we can do is argue over something that neither of us knows for sure except what has already happened in the past and by that I can say that the 5870 will NOT outperform the 4870x2. I'm not going to reply to you on this subject again because it's a waste of my time & energy because you could say that the 5870 will perform 10 times faster than the 4870 and I have nothing to counter that in hard evidence.

Here I'll say it now. The 5870 will perform one thousand million times faster than the 4870x2. See, you can't dispute that with hard facts at all.

Speculation
Definition:

1. opinion based on incomplete information: a conclusion, theory, or opinion based on incomplete facts or information

2. reasoning based on incomplete information: reasoning based on incomplete facts or information
mere speculation
 
LittleMeEgo said:
The 5870 will very likely not be faster than the 4870x2 in SLI aware games. That would be a miracle. Really, a $300 card outperforming a $350 card that has two 4870's? That's not realistic. But neither you or I can cite evidence or proof so all we can do is argue over something that neither of us knows for sure except what has already happened in the past and by that I can say that the 5870 will NOT outperform the 4870x2. I'm not going to reply to you on this subject again because it's a waste of my time & energy because you could say that the 5870 will perform 10 times faster than the 4870 and I have nothing to counter that in hard evidence.

Here I'll say it now. The 5870 will perform one thousand million times faster than the 4870x2. See, you can't dispute that with hard facts at all.

Speculation
Definition:

1. opinion based on incomplete information: a conclusion, theory, or opinion based on incomplete facts or information

2. reasoning based on incomplete information: reasoning based on incomplete facts or information
mere speculation
Click to expand...

hmm i had 3870 cf and 4870 cf and 1 -4870 is alittle faster than a 3870x2
 
bill_d said:
hmm i had 3870 cf and 4870 cf and 1 -4870 is alittle faster than a 3870x2
Click to expand...

Exactly, and that has always been AMD's point. That their brand new high end single cards can come close to the previous gen X2 card's performance.

The 4870 1gb was same performance as the 3870X2, and the 5870 should be close in performance to the 4870X2
 
Zorachus said:
Exactly, and that has always been AMD's point. That their brand new high end single cards can come close to the previous gen X2 card's performance.

The 4870 1gb was same performance as the 3870X2, and the 5870 should be close in performance to the 4870X2
Click to expand...

Well if it has 50% more sp and other stuff on the chip that also increases performance likewise, then a 35% to 50% boost in performance would be about what the 4870x2 offers over the 4870, right? So maybe 'as fast' but not 'faster' than a 4870x2.
 
phide said:
I'm not sure AIBs will be able to drop prices on 295s dramatically. NVIDIA will reduce chip prices moderately, sure, but I don't see any drastic price reductions in store for us.

If the 5870 ends up nipping at the 295's heels, I suspect that AIBs are going to have a real problem clearing 295 stock.
Click to expand...

AIBs will indeed have trouble clearing stock, which will then affect retailers. As for the remaining stock... then what? If there aren't any drastic price cuts and if the 5870 does perform on par or better, chips will cease to be produced and then the rest already on shelves will very slowly, painfully be sold? But I guess it would be understandable as the GTX295's really don't sell out as much anyways.

Zorachus said:
It is NOT embarrassing for nVidia, if a next generation card beats it's previous out dated card, like the 5870 will do to the 295 next month. Because nVidia will have their fun come Nov/Dec with their next gen GTX-380 kicking all sorts of ass. That's the cycle in this business, what comes around usually goes around :)
Click to expand...

Nvidia will obviously answer back. My point was about the GTX295's remaining life as that would be their top performer for that window of time. It's not too long away, but it will hurt Nvidia as ATI will be gaining sales as this card will be the best bang for the buck if the performance are true as predicted.

I'm in the same boat as you though, going with the trend, Nvidia usually has the super duper kick ass card... but also comes with a price.
 
BETA. said:
If there aren't any drastic price cuts and if the 5870 does perform on par or better, chips will cease to be produced and then the rest already on shelves will very slowly, painfully be sold?
Click to expand...
Production of GT200b chips will probably be reduced somewhat, but not eliminated, since the GTX 260-216, GTX 275 and GTX 285 all use it and the 260 and 275 are still fairly popular cards (and will probably remain so after the 58xx-series launch). AIBs will no doubt drastically reduce production of GTX 295 cards and offer moderate price cuts. This'll be good for the hardcore folders out there, since the 295 still offers great PPD/watt and PPD/dollar, but they may still have some issues getting rid of what they have if the 5870 is very competitive in that realm (which I imagine it will be, particularly with respect to PPD/watt).

I doubt EVGA, BFG, XFX and others are overwhelmed with 295 stock at the moment, but depending on how impressive the 5870 is, they might be facing some problems. We'll just have to wait and see how far AIBs will be willing to go with pricing to deplete their stock.
 
Zorachus said:
Exactly, and that has always been AMD's point. That their brand new high end single cards can come close to the previous gen X2 card's performance.

The 4870 1gb was same performance as the 3870X2, and the 5870 should be close in performance to the 4870X2
Click to expand...

I'm sure that also had something to do with how "slow" the 3870s were.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
I'm not really excited with ATI after I had 2 4870s just up and randomly die on me. Also, the ATI drivers felt like they had taken a step backwards. Another point to consider - with a lot of games ramping up to use PhysX, you'd be giving that up too moving to ATI. There is a lot to consider moving from a GTX 280 / 285 back to ATI at this point. Unless the performance really smokes current Nvidia cards I'm not sure it's really worth it.
 
I love the speculation, but I wait for the specs to decide if it's worth getting......

who am I kidding, everyone wants the latest and greatest!
 
Performance that beats the 285, at a price for less than the 285 is a win in my book, a bit underwhelming but I expected that performance "leap" after the last one. The question is just what the GT300 is going to be like (x3-x4 performance over the current performance leader?), and if the current graphics card generation is going to repeat itself or not? (and what's waiting after the November 58XXx2)

Maybe they're taking it easy and focusing on a smooth affordable DX11 transition rather than going after the performance crown, because the majority of the sales that happen don't happen because of who has the fastest card?


(When PhysX is used for car physics, something useful or fun that adds more than eyecandy that Havok's done for over ten years to a game without requiring extra hardware or drivers, I'll start to think about it, for good god did I expect too much from that)
 
MrLonghair said:
Performance that beats the 285, at a price for less than the 285 is a win in my book, a bit underwhelming but I expected that performance "leap" after the last one. The question is just what the GT300 is going to be like (x3-x4 performance over the current performance leader?), and if the current graphics card generation is going to repeat itself or not? (and what's waiting after the November 58XXx2))
Click to expand...

Probably. Nothing looks to be pushing the envelope anytime soon. Plus there's the fact that this console generation is going to last much longer, so we can expect the requirements of any multiplatform games to stay the same. StarCraft II, for instance, isn't going to be that stressful on current systems.
 
cannondale06 said:
cpu bottleneck here you come too if you dont have an overclocked i7.
Click to expand...

<---does not care

And why are you posting in an ATI Forum thread when you obviously have an Nvidia card? Trolling will get you no where cannonfodder

P.S. P2 965 here i come :)
 
DASHlT said:
<---does not care

And why are you posting in an ATI Forum thread when you obviously have an Nvidia card? Trolling will get you no where cannonfodder

P.S. P2 965 here i come :)
Click to expand...
how the hell is it trolling because I have an Nvidia card?? if these things turn out to be twice as fast as the 4870 that will make running two of them like having four 4870 cards. you will be noticeably bottlenecked especially below 2560 with that P2 965 if you plan on running two of those cards. anything besides an i7 already holds back high end sli/crossfire a tiny bit and tri sli/ crossfire or better by quite a lot. why would you not care?
 
cannondale06 said:
how the hell is it trolling because I have an Nvidia card?? if these things turn out to be twice as fast as the 4870 that will make running two of them like having four 4870 cards. you will be noticeably bottlenecked especially below with that P2 965 if you plan on running two of those cards. anything besides an i7 already holds back high end sli/crossfire a tiny bit and tri sli/ crossfire or better by quite a lot. why would you not care?
Click to expand...

The Real question is why do you care?

And Cannon you are known on these forums to troll alot. So don't act shocked that someone would say you are trolling lol
 
DASHlT said:
The Real question is why do you care?

And Cannon you are known on these forums to troll alot. So don't act shocked that someone would say you are trolling lol
Click to expand...
because this is a forum last time I looked. you made a comment and I replied. you dont have a cpu listed in your sig so I wasnt sure what cpu that you even have. I was just giving you a little advice but if you want to call me troll and act like that then go ahead.
 
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cannondale06 said:
how the hell is it trolling because I have an Nvidia card?? if these things turn out to be twice as fast as the 4870 that will make running two of them like having four 4870 cards. you will be noticeably bottlenecked especially below 2560 with that P2 965 if you plan on running two of those cards. anything besides an i7 already holds back high end sli/crossfire a tiny bit and tri sli/ crossfire or better by quite a lot. why would you not care?
Click to expand...

but i an on 25x16 so if two 5870 are bottlenecked by my q6600 good, two 4890 are not
then it will be next to upgrade
 
bill_d said:
but i an on 25x16 so if two 5870 are bottlenecked by my q6600 good, two 4890 are not
then it will be next to upgrade
Click to expand...
well at 2560 its not too much of an issue but if these 5870 cards are indeed twice as fast then having two of them will have your Q6600 holding them back. I certainly would not get a 4890 crossfire set up though. just get one 5780 until you do a cpu/platform upgrade. if the 5870 turns out to be much less than twice as fast as the 4870 then having two of them shouldnt be an issue at 2560 anyway. in other words, I guess we really need to wait and see how fast these cards actually are.
 
cannondale06 said:
well at 2560 its not too much of an issue but if these 5870 cards are indeed twice as fast then having two of them will have your Q6600 holding them back. I certainly would not get a 4890 crossfire set up though. just get one 5780 until you do a cpu/platform upgrade. if the 5870 turns out to be much less than twice as fast as the 4870 then having two of them shouldnt be an issue at 2560 anyway. in other words, I guess we really need to wait and see how fast these cards actually are.
Click to expand...

i have the 4890 cf setup, now i wouldn't have upgrade my 4870's to the 4980's if i had not lost one of the 4870 to a cracked top on a water block at the same time the 4890 came out and the 4870's were 512mb
but if i can get two 5870 when they come i will, the q6600 to old now ;)
and my water needs cleaning anyway
 
cannondale06 said:
how the hell is it trolling because I have an Nvidia card?? if these things turn out to be twice as fast as the 4870 that will make running two of them like having four 4870 cards. you will be noticeably bottlenecked especially below 2560 with that P2 965 if you plan on running two of those cards. anything besides an i7 already holds back high end sli/crossfire a tiny bit and tri sli/ crossfire or better by quite a lot. why would you not care?
Click to expand...

You're a horrible troll. You want to rain on the AMD parade by saying that most people are going to be CPU limited? Has it not occurred to you that if you're trolling like that, whatever NVIDIA releases that's faster than the 5870 will bottleneck even more, which means your criticism of AMD is strong for NVIDIA if NVIDIA has a better card? Would you be happier if NVIDIA release a nice, slow card that didn't bottleneck your CPU?

As for the whole debate against 3870x2 vs 4870, all it takes is a little googling to find out that the 3870x2 ~ 4870 rule is true.

http://www.google.com/search?q=3870...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a



http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/...q3-2008/3DMark06-v1.1.0-3DMark-Score,794.html

I know people hate on Tom's and 3dmark, but since we're compairing ATI on ATI I'd imagine that this would give us a rough Idea of how things work out.

2900 XT = 10679
x1950XTX CF = 10903

4870 = 12995
3870x2 = 13441

x1900xt CF = 10175
3870 = 10399
2900XT = 10679

The 2xxx series to 3xxx series doesn't follow the pattern, but I'm willing to call that an outlier because both of those cards were relatively horrible and I don't think I have to argue that 2xxx series was a dark page in ATI's history.

I expect to 5870 to be roughly that of 4870x2 or 4870 CF speed if the pattern holds true.
 
sdlvx said:
You're a horrible troll. You want to rain on the AMD parade by saying that most people are going to be CPU limited? Has it not occurred to you that if you're trolling like that, whatever NVIDIA releases that's faster than the 5870 will bottleneck even more, which means your criticism of AMD is strong for NVIDIA if NVIDIA has a better card? Would you be happier if NVIDIA release a nice, slow card that didn't bottleneck your CPU?
Click to expand...
raining on the AMD parade? I might get one of these cards my self and my comments have NOTHING to do with the cards being from ATI and YES the same holds true for the next gen of Nvidia cards too. thats just common sense isnt it? I am NOT criticizing ANY company.
 
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Could we stay a little more optimistic?

I'm hoping this card will be ATI's new 9700 Pro.
I'm not holding my breath or anything. 4770 is fun, glad I didn't pay $500+ for 8800 some odd year and a half ago.
 
Yossarian22 said:
Could we stay a little more optimistic?

I'm hoping this card will be ATI's new 9700 Pro.
I'm not holding my breath or anything. 4770 is fun, glad I didn't pay $500+ for 8800 some odd year and a half ago.
Click to expand...
yeah the 8800gtx was an awesome card but for what they cost people are trying to hold on to those things for as long as they can. the ATI 4000 series kicked Nvidia in the balls and that was good for everybody. I would have gone with a 4870 but the 1gb version were rare and pricey at that time plus I got a really good deal on the gtx260. $189, free shipping and free game was hard to pass up last year especially considering they were twice that price at one time.
 
Brownstone said:
If its not at least 20% faster than a GTX 295 im skipping
Click to expand...

Your asking to much for that price imo.

Anyway this is great news even if Nvidia decide to price high the GT300. 5870 being "cheap"
will reduce the launch price of the GT300 imo 390 $ will be a decent price.

Of course only if its quite faster then 5870! Also the fact that Nvidia will be a bit late
may lower the price even more! They will have to fight Ati and knowing they will be late
they should have to offer a decent price imho,and all of us will enjoy nice "cheap" high end vga for
maybe first time in hardware history :D lets not forget that Gt300 will have to offer insane
performance to justify the higher price and in my case the waiting ;)

Now lets hope to see the real GT300 and 5870 specs as soon as possible!
 
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knothead34 said:
when are we gonna see pics of these bad boys?
Click to expand...

ezons0.jpg


http://www.techfuels.com/latest-har...ds-first-directx-11-graphics-card-leaked.html

Rear of the card seems to match up with those that were demo'd at QuakeCon. That is about all I can point to to prove its validity.
 
I'm not looking for the fastest GPU out there so I'm more interested in the HD 5850. I think it will be a "decent" bump up from my X1900XT.
 
JaguarSKX said:
I'm not looking for the fastest GPU out there so I'm more interested in the HD 5850. I think it will be a "decent" bump up from my X1900XT.
Click to expand...
even a current low end card would be a decent bump. the 5850 will be a massive jump of course. any reason you have waited this long for an upgrade? I couldnt imagine trying to get through some modern games on that x1900xt. :eek:
 
DASHlT said:
And why are you posting in an ATI Forum thread when you obviously have an Nvidia card? Trolling will get you no where cannonfodder
Click to expand...

i have four systems listed using nVidia cards, does that mean i am banned from the ATI forum?
 
JaguarSKX said:
I'm not looking for the fastest GPU out there so I'm more interested in the HD 5850. I think it will be a "decent" bump up from my X1900XT.
Click to expand...

I've got the same card with an even weaker processor. I've been holding out for this because I can play L4D and TF2 with my card well with what I've got.

I want to be able to max things out and play other games though. Here's hoping for a monster 5850.
 
+1 to bumping the X1900XT
Been enjoying the older games thus far. Trying to hold out.... finding older games. heheh.
 
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