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24" Widescreen CRT (FW900) From Ebay arrived,Comments.

Discussion in 'Displays' started by mathesar, Sep 13, 2005.

  1. Strat_84

    Strat_84 [H]Lite

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    Well, I must be from another planet then, because I've always used a steady 85 to 100hz refresh rate (depending on the screen), often with vsync on but sometimes without, and:
    - tearing is very rare if present at all
    - stuttering might happen in some cases, when the fps drop for a reason or another. But then it's the good old issue of feet coded games or hardware too weak, you can't expect a game to be smooth when it goes down to 20fps or below.

    On the other hand I see flickering below 80hz and I can even tell a difference between 85 and 100hz.
     
  2. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    I have vsync off when I play quakelive @ 250 fps and @ 160hz, and I never notice any tearing. Turning vsync off offers a slightly smoother experience but not dramatic by any means. Those are fairly extreme conditions though.
     
  3. EnhancedInterrogator

    EnhancedInterrogator Gawd

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    Tearing and stuttering aren't rare, you've just become acclimated to them because you always have frame rate/refresh rate mismatch. If you lower settings/resolution to where you can stay above 85fps most of the time, then set vsync on (which will keep your game at 85fps always), your game will be much smoother than when you allow the frame rate to fluctuate.

    Well, when you're at 160hz, differences between one frame and the next are pretty minor, so tearing is hidden quite a bit better. But that's you playing a 15 year old game. Harder to keep above 160fps on new games without a very expensive PC
     
  4. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    agreed, and I have very little experience with lower frame rates.
     
  5. donhonk

    donhonk n00bie

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    Going to look at one of these tomorrow, my only last concern is.... My current desk has a glass top. Bit concerned about cracking it. Anyone use theirs on a glass desk?
     
  6. aeliusg

    aeliusg Gawd

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    It's only 100 lbs with a plastic base. Any glass desk built properly should be able to handle it, but I understand your skepticism. I don't have a glass desk to test with for you, however.
     
  7. LucasMcCain

    LucasMcCain n00bie

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    can anyone recommend me a specific Displayport>Vga converter. I got a monoprice one and I'm able to get my desired 1024x768 @105 hz, unfortunately there are two faint, slightly diagonal, white lines flashing across the center of the monitor. They are not totally centered and they are at a slight angle.

    My graphics card is a zotac gtx 1060 mini and my monitor is a Hitachi Super-scan Pro 21, as I discussed on page 370.

    I'd really appreciate an ebay/amazon link to a specific DAC that doesn't have this problem. I'm assuming the issue is the converter but I suppose it could be my graphics card...Opinions are very welcome on this subject.
     
  8. EnhancedInterrogator

    EnhancedInterrogator Gawd

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    Everybody here likes the VCOM displayport adapter. I used the HD Fury Nano GX. That is HDMI but gives you similar results.
     
  9. Blutrache

    Blutrache n00bie

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    Post a picture.
    Have you tried to lower the refresh rate? Just in case it's because you're off limits, post pictures of the cru configuration you made to set that resolution.
     
  10. LucasMcCain

    LucasMcCain n00bie

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    I'll give that a try tonight. Its 165mhz (https://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=5135&gclid=COHYk87asNMCFYmFswodLuQLew) and I'm only running 1024x768@105 hz; someone posted earlier they were running a higher resolution/refresh rate with a comparable converter. This leads me to believe its the converter. I"ll try setting it to 85hz tonight and see if the lines go away, I'll report back. I'm actually hoping it is broken, I don't want to be limited to lower than 100hz.
     
  11. LucasMcCain

    LucasMcCain n00bie

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    Can you please send me a link to the specific one you bought. Based on your results i got a 165mhz DP>VGA from monoprice. Unfortunately it has two flashing white lines in the middle of the screen that make it unusable for me. They are faint lines, but very distracting. I am driving my Hitachi Superscan Pro 21 with a GTX 1060 at 1024x768 105hz
     
  12. Blutrache

    Blutrache n00bie

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  13. LucasMcCain

    LucasMcCain n00bie

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    Here are the pics you requested. In one you can see the lines present, the other they're not there. Those lines flash about twice per second. I tried lowering the refresh rate to 85hz @ 1024x768 but they lines were still there, they just moved upwards slightly.

    I never had any problems using a DVI-i to VGA adapter on my old computer with a gtx 980. I tend to think its not an issue with my new computer or the 1060, but the converter. I've gotten cables from monoprice there were DOA; I hope thats the prob, I really want to keep using this CRT; all new LED monitors give me eye major strain.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. EnhancedInterrogator

    EnhancedInterrogator Gawd

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    Can an Nvidia user on the forum do me a huge favor? Please create an interlaced resolution (with Nvidia CP or CRU) and see if your monitor can display it.

    It seems the Windows Creator's update (1703) has broken interlaced resolutions. The desktop frame is cut in half, then the upper half is stretched to fill the whole screen. But I'm on AMD so I'm curious to see if it's happening to Nvidia people too.

    EDIT: actually, if 1080i is already selectable you can test with that
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  15. DooLocsta

    DooLocsta [H]ard|Gawd

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    What happened to your GTX 980? Anyway I think you should RMA the Monoprice adapter and get the VCOM linked above.
     
  16. LucasMcCain

    LucasMcCain n00bie

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    I sold my 980 rig to build a much smaller mini ITX pc.

    I contacted monoprice and they said they'd ship a replacement so I'm hoping it was just a defective unit. I may wait until that arrives before I drop the $25 on the VCOM.

    Any theories on what could be causing those lines?
     
  17. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    i just tested with 1920x1200 @ 85 interlaced and it seemed to work fine. But not sure if anything actually changed. Screen flashed when changing modes, but there was no "click".
     
  18. Blutrache

    Blutrache n00bie

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    I got something similar when I surpassed the 165mhz limit, but that's not your case. Have you used the crt timmings preset on CRU?
     
  19. LucasMcCain

    LucasMcCain n00bie

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    I just set 1024x768@105 hz in my Nvidia control panel under custom resolutions. Beyond that, I don't think I did anything. I'll try using CRU instead
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  20. twonunpackmule

    twonunpackmule Gawd

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    I got rid of mine a few years ago when the screen took forever to warm up. It would be green for entirely too long before it finally "clicked." Still, I do miss the old mammoth. I'm shocked they're still around and this thread is going strong. I think I even have a post about acquiring mine.
     
  21. EnhancedInterrogator

    EnhancedInterrogator Gawd

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    What did your monitor's OSD show? For that resolution it should be 53.8kHz horizontal.

    Thanks for checking by the way
     
  22. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    np. shows 107.2khz, same as progressive. I'm using nvidia custom resolution to do it.
     
  23. EnhancedInterrogator

    EnhancedInterrogator Gawd

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    have you tinkered with it to see if you can get it to actually display in interlaced? maybe try CRU?

    I'm starting to think this is an AMD specific issue, but I don't have any Nvidia cards to test with
     
  24. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    can you give me step by step instructions on how to get CRU to change desktop resolution? I've used it successfully for games that I run in lower resolutions that I want a high refresh rate, but not very familiar with how it works.
     
  25. EnhancedInterrogator

    EnhancedInterrogator Gawd

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    Any time you add new resolutions in CRU, you have to restart your PC, or restart your driver with the included "restart64.exe".

    So for 1920x1200 interlaced at say 100hz , you would enter the resolution, with "CRT standard timings" at the top, then input 100hz for vertical refresh, then check the "interlaced" check box at the bottom. Then restart, and when you go to select the refresh rate in Windows display settings, you'll see it listed as "50hz interlaced".

    Your monitor will report the vertical frequency as 100hz, but Windows is thinking more about how many full 1920x1200 frames are being produced, which is technically 50.
     
    Blutrache likes this.
  26. PCnerf

    PCnerf n00bie

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    Hey, who here was able to get WinDas running on Windows 10? What did you to to get it to work?
    I am looking to build my new PC soon and wanted to get a calibration done while I was at it.

    Too bad Anologix canned their DAC. Does this leave us with the HDFury4 as the best DAC to get now?
     
  27. 3dfan

    3dfan n00bie

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    and i am shocked that in 2017 is still very hard, not to say imposible to find a monitor capable of reproduce OLED natural blacks quality levels, IPS color quality levels, excellent contast, excellent viewing angles, very good geometry, clear motion quality without sacrificing brightness or requiring high vertical frecuencies, better non crappy scaled multi resolutions, excellent latency, excellent static image clarity, widescreen resolutions up to 1920x1200@96HZ, even 2k (i can get my fw900 up to 2560x1600 @ 68HZ, with still very good image clarity and quality, more experienced users probably can go even higher), still very good flat screen size at 22.5 inches widescreen 16:10 aspect ratio. all this features in one package: the fw900.

    i bet this is why many people like me still want and enjoy this more than a decade "obsolete" monitor, not just this, but the CRT technology in general.

    man i miss those ages when even the modest and cheaper color CRT monitors offered many of those features no current monitor is offering in one single package, so practically you only had to choose between monitor screen sizes.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
    DooLocsta likes this.
  28. LucasMcCain

    LucasMcCain n00bie

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    I'm a bit surprised too. I really thought by now we would have good OLED monitors, but they're holding that technology back so they can milk "144hz, adaptive-sync, "HDR", etc shitty LCD panels for every dollar possible by slapping on a new feature every year and forcing consumers to comprise even with $1000+ panels. Maybe in a year or two we'll see some OLED monitors (they are appearing in laptops already), but I'm afraid its going the way of SED monitors. The industry knows OLED will blow away every single LCD on the market, so they are stubornly refusing to give the consumers what they want.

    I sold my two A7217A's (HP fw900) two years ago thinking it was a good time to sell and OLED was guna be here soon...huge mistake.Now I'm running a 21'' 4:3 CRT i found for $10, its great, but I often miss the sharpness and widescreen on my old Trinitron's. I want to "upgrade" to a new monitor, but even the most expensive LCD's have worse colors and cause significantly more eye strain. I'll be keeping my giant CRT until there is a real upgrade where I won't have to pay hundreds to compromise and have worse colors, blacks, image depth, input lag, contrast, etc.
     
  29. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    thanks. I'll have time to do this tomorrow. If you don't hear from me by the end of Friday, just post back here to remind me :)
     
  30. LucasMcCain

    LucasMcCain n00bie

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    I played around with CRU a bit. I tried using the crt timing and setting my native to 1280x1024@85hz and 1280x960@90hz but both game me out of sync when i tried to set them in windows or the nvidia control panel. Does this mean that my monitor just can't go that high?

    https://books.google.com/books?id=p...#v=onepage&q=hitachi superscan pro 21&f=false


    ^ Thats the only info i can find regarding the resolutions this monitor is capable of
     
  31. EnhancedInterrogator

    EnhancedInterrogator Gawd

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    That seems low for a 21 inch monitor, but maybe not since it's from 1995? My 19 inch from 2002 can do 105hz @ 1280x960.
     
  32. Blutrache

    Blutrache n00bie

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    Well... 85khz horizontal frequency, sadly that means you don't need to buy the vcom adapter since the bottleneck isn't on the adapter but on the display itself.
    In order to get a valid resolution you need to be within the limits, the program will tell you
    [​IMG]
    Those 2 resolutions you tried are more than 85khz
     
  33. Ashun

    Ashun n00bie

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    EnhancedInterrogator you're right about the interlacing. When I answered previously, I just checked if the image was displayed while I was in the nvidia custom res utility. In it, I can create any interlaced resolution, and it'll properly display as interlaced; I can even save it. But once saved, I can't actually get Windows to display that resolution. It's not even available as an option.

    I tried creating a custom interlaced resolution in CRU as well. Same deal; it won't show up at all in nvidia's display properties, nor will it display in the Windows display dialog.

    So what do you think the probability of this getting fixed, or even noticed, is? Zero? :) Interlacing wasn't something I've ever used, but as someone who is still using a CRT in 2017, I can understand how it's frustrating when "legacy" stuff that still works just fine is abandoned.

    On a similar Windows Creator's Update note, now my StarTech DP to VGA adapter (good for 230 MHz pixel clock) will not display anything above 1280x1024x85. I can't even force it with nvidia's control panel or CRU. I hadn't checked this until just now since I bought a used 980 Ti and had no need for the adapter. But I know it definitely worked before!
     
  34. EnhancedInterrogator

    EnhancedInterrogator Gawd

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    Oh wasup man!

    Actually, I was a little wrong. I just installed an earlier AMD driver from March, and it has no problem with interlaced resolutions. So it appears the interlacing issue is with AMD's newest driver and how it interacts with the 1703 Windows update. I'm also waiting to see what spacediver's results are.

    As for why you can't select interlaced stuff, have you gone into Windows display settings, the click on the blue text "Display Adapter Properties"? Under that, I think you should see interlaced refresh rates. But you may need to create a progressive refresh rate for the resolution as well so it shows up in the drop-down box in the first place.

    I think that's the workaround I found last time I had an Nvidia card. Also, this utility, QuickRes, is good for selecting weird resolutions that don't show up in Windows or Nvidia CP https://www.ultimarc.com/download_old.html (at the bottom of page).

    As for it getting noticed? I think pretty unlikely, other than the fact that TV broadcasts are 1080i, and maybe PC's need to support it for production work? But I submitted bug reports to both Microsoft and AMD, hoping they'll fix it. I also don't like seeing legacy tech being chipped away at, especially when I still use it.

    Hmm I had an issue similar this with an HD Fury HDMI>VGA adapter, and I solved it by importing the HDMI.dat file on CRU's home page. Apparently the adapter was being detected as DVI single-link, which is 165mhz max. The HDMI.dat increased that 600mhz

    So maybe there's a similar trick for Displayport? I'd peruse the CRU forum, and ask ToastyX himself if you can't find anything.
     
    aeliusg likes this.
  35. 3dfan

    3dfan n00bie

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    yes, agree that consumerism is determinant here, and it is really frustrating being forced to adquire newer but inferior quality products,however there are some interesting news i found: the OLED 4K 30" 60 Hz - Dell UP3017Q monitor here and at the blurbusters forums , a 60hz 4k OLED monitor with strobing to improve motion clarity (i´d wish motion clarity finally becomes common in all monitors), Although with still some flaws, such some noticiable input lag and expensive price, as reported by one of its owners, but i think its a good start, so finally it can begin to improve those flaws, add better features and become massive with better prices in the near future
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  36. XoR_

    XoR_ n00bie

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    so is there any readily available solution for new cards that gives more bandwidth than 225MHz?
    Later models of HDFury range devices claim to hit that. Can they be overclocked to more reasonable speeds?
     
  37. SpiderWaffle

    SpiderWaffle Limp Gawd

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    What are the best tests, patterns, software to run for INSPECTING the condition a CRT like this? Ballparking the number of hours and age on the electron guns and phosphorus, things that can't be fixed or calibrated to work better.

    Also, any advice on seeing how deep scratches are besides the fingernail dig test? To see if they go past the factory installed anti-glare coating or not?

    Thanks!
     
  38. Blutrache

    Blutrache n00bie

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    https://www.eizo.be/monitor-test/
    You won't be able to see the exact amount of hours on the tubes
     
  39. spacediver

    spacediver 2[H]4U

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    Ok, I added the interlaced resolution into the "detailed slots" thingie.

    Then i did the restart64.exe thing. My monitor flashed, showed a weird looking resolution very briefly and then went to my regular desktop 1920x1200 resolution.

    Now what? How do I actually activate the interlaced resolution?
     
  40. EnhancedInterrogator

    EnhancedInterrogator Gawd

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    Go into Windows display settings, choose the resolution, then click on the blue text "Display Adapter Properties", then the monitor tab, then choose the interlaced refresh rate. You may also need to make a separate, progressive refresh rate for the same resolution if it doesn't show up in the first window.