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2017 LG OLED
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shadow2761
Limp Gawd
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Does the latest firmware improve the input lag on the E6 for PC Gaming @4K and 4:4:4
I don't notice any difference?-
I don't notice any difference?-
Beast Mode
Weaksauce
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It is worth mentioning that the ~21ms input lag figure they are citing is from the E7 in gaming mode. So we can expect input lag to be comparable to the 2016 models post-firmware update, I guess.
Armenius
Extremely [H]
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Given that the average human reaction time to visual stimuli is around 250 ms, I don't think that an extra 15 ms is going to make a world of difference in practical application. The primary enemy of online FPS these days is low ticrates.
I think most people's issue with the input lag is because they press a button and notice the delay in the action happening on screen. It happens to me when playing fighting games on an LCD vs a CRT. It's not an issue of reacting faster, but it throws off your timing when the button presses are delayed on the screen.
shadow2761
Limp Gawd
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Same hardware but lower input lag? Then how can the 2016s not reach 20ms?
Beast Mode
Weaksauce
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Anyone here have one of these yet? There is an owners thread on AVS now and people are starting to give first impressions.
I love all of Samsungs mumbo-jumbo. Samsung, it's just an LCD TV.
Exactly. You also might react too late to events on screen. Personally I can't tell any real difference in the games I play between my ASUS PG278Q <10ms and Samsung KS7005 (Nordic KS8000) 22ms.
Lateralus
More [H]uman than Human
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At least that particular iteration of marketspeak means something, though. I owned 3 of the 2015 LCD TVs and the Quantum Dot sets had an objectively more brilliant, vivid picture. It's still not OLED obviously, but they were right to differentiate it from the regular LED sets.
Yes. The hdtv test video shows some good details on the LG 2017 OLEDs. With the input icon switched to PC you get 4:4:4 chroma support with input lag at 21ms, if you want HDR also enabled, you'll have to switch the picture mode to Game which retains the 21ms input lag.
So far using the display as a monitor is amazing, and the best I've had since I started using HDTVs as monitors back in ~2007. If you don't have a beefy system yet or want to shell out for a 1080ti you can set the display to 1920x1080 which scales nicely and has 120hz refresh rate available. The most notable issue I'm having is all the display calibration settings available online appear lacking when it comes to movie content as they tend to crush the blacks or wash out the highlights as compared to the defaults -- tried rtings, cnet, avsforum and hardforum. We'll probably have to wait until market saturation picks up before more people are able to provide calibration settings that may be best for movies beyond the defaults [which are admittedly pretty good]. Previous TVs are listed below and having come from the PN51D8000 the bar for me is set pretty high for color fidelity.
Recommended PC Settings -- Arbitrary
Set Input Icon as PC
- Press the Input Button.
- Select "All Inputs"
- Select the input we're wanting updated to PC.
- Select the "Edit Icon" button.
- Scroll down and select PC.
- Cog button on remote
- All Settings ...
- Picture
- Picture Mode Settings
- Picture Mode [ISF Expert (Dark Room)]
- Customize section [Defaults]
- Expert Controls
- Dynamic Contrast [Off]
- Super Resolution [Off]
- Color Gamut [Auto]
- Edge Enhancer [Off]
- Color FIlter [Off]
- Gamma [BT.1886]
- White Balance
- Color Temperature [Warm1], Warm2 is a little to yellow on whites.
- Picture Mode Settings
- Black Level [Low]
- Motion Eye Care [Off]
HDR
- Cog button on remote
- All Settings ...
- General
- Scroll down until you find "HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Color".
- Toggle on the feature for the selected HDMI [or other] input.
- NOTE -- if you turn on your input for HDR and are in a HDR game title that is also in 4k, you'll want to change the Picture Mode Settings to "Game" to retain 21ms input lag.
Previous Displays
LG OLED55B7P 2017 - Now
Samsung PN51D8000 2011 - 2017
Samsung LN40B750 2009 - 2011
HDTV Test Review -- 10:20 second mark discusses input settings
Thanks.
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I'm highly contemplating picking up a B7\C7 55" tomorrow. The 65" is glorious but I just don't think I can handle it at under 3ft. Its still a real toss up between the 900E and the OLED or just go super cheap with a TCL P605 and wait for prices to come down or new OLED models next year.
For the price difference I feel like taking the leap on the OLED guess will see if I come home with one.
For the price difference I feel like taking the leap on the OLED guess will see if I come home with one.
I have bought LG C7 (55 inch) about two months ago and have been using it daily as a general purpose monitor (gaming, internet, movie/show viewing)
First if you are concerned about retention don't be. I have used it as my main desktop monitor and have never seen any trace of retention.
This display blows away my previous JS9000 for all but certain productivity uses (look CONS). It has 1080p 120Hz support but I found 4k 60p to look and feel better even in shooter type games.
PROS:
Amazing contrast, colors and viewing angles (lack of curve is not a problem since you do not loose contrast at an angle)
No flickering whatsoever on moving images. LCDs flicker badly on moving checkerboard type pattern (like 4:4:4 test screen or some fog implementations). C7 is smooth as silk in motion. It has the smoothest motion of any monitor I have ever used.
Usable HDR (works in Resident Evil 7, windows 7, 1080TI). Built in player can play everything except raw bluray rips (in HDR and 10/12 bit color)
CONS:
ABL. The automatic brightness limiter is the only serious con of this monitor. It does two things. It limits total brightness of the screen. This is mostly seen when you attempt to full screen a white window and is not that annoying (It triggers if 75%+ of the screen is pure white). The second thing it does which is much more annoying is slowly dim the screen if the screen total brightness has not changed over 60 seconds (i.e. you have a mostly static image displayed). This is not an issue in gaming, movies or internet viewing, but it is really annoying for productivity scenarios where you are working with text windows that do not change much (scrolling text is not enough to stop ABL since it measures total brightness). The screen dims over time and its really annoying. I have combated this by setting my desktop background to change every 60 seconds. But this only works if your productivity application does not take whole screen
Cleartype is not as effective as on LCD with standard pixel layout. It does work but text looks a bit sharper on normal LCD.
There is a slight red shift when viewing from an angle. If you view a fullscreen white applications the left/right sides will be slightly redder then center. For gaming/movies this is unnoticeable you can only see it on large white areas.
The monitor suffers from some color banding. This is not something you will ever see except on an image specifically designed to test for color banding. Changing from 8 to 12 bit color depth does not improve it.
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Thanks for the usage experience Ziran. I work from home and even though I spend most of my work day surfing, youtube, etc. I still have to put in some work time now and then much of which is digging through long text logs. Constantly changing the background wouldn't be much of an issue I guess. Bad cleartype is worrisome though. Do you do any scaling? Spending long hrs every day reading lots of text is probably my primary use.
Spent a number of hours at 3 different stores checking out display units and seeing what kind of deals I could get. No stores in my area have the C7 in stock but I can pick one up from the warehouse tomorrow if I want. I know in store displays are terrible for doing real comparisons since they really mess with the settings to try and push the more expensive units but just from quick visual inspections:
Its still a toss up between the C7 and Q7 curved to me. The colors look great on both. Obviously the OLED has better blacks but I am not a videophile and the QLED's still looked good to me. Is this just me, what do others think?
The big neg on going Q7 though is everyone says they are pretty much comparable to last years KS8000\8500 series. I was not in the market when these were in stores so I never saw any on display. Can the KS8000 really look almost as good as the Q7 at half the price?
The other thing that has me hanging is the 65". It looks soooo much bigger and nicer than the 55". This is my old HU7250 setup, think I could pull off a 65"?
The 900E's looked good, definitely not as sexy as the OLED or QLED. Didn't get much pop, could have been the instore setup and demo. The Z9D makes it look just sad though, which it should for its price. A 55" curved Z9D for under $2500 would be my perfect world.
Found a store that had the TCL 55P605 on display. Did not look very good. Nice and bright but some serious shadows at the corners. Not much gloss and I prefer high gloss. HDR looked like it would be fine but SDR could be pretty blah.
Will keep scouring owners threads tonight to try and decide.
Spent a number of hours at 3 different stores checking out display units and seeing what kind of deals I could get. No stores in my area have the C7 in stock but I can pick one up from the warehouse tomorrow if I want. I know in store displays are terrible for doing real comparisons since they really mess with the settings to try and push the more expensive units but just from quick visual inspections:
Its still a toss up between the C7 and Q7 curved to me. The colors look great on both. Obviously the OLED has better blacks but I am not a videophile and the QLED's still looked good to me. Is this just me, what do others think?
The big neg on going Q7 though is everyone says they are pretty much comparable to last years KS8000\8500 series. I was not in the market when these were in stores so I never saw any on display. Can the KS8000 really look almost as good as the Q7 at half the price?
The other thing that has me hanging is the 65". It looks soooo much bigger and nicer than the 55". This is my old HU7250 setup, think I could pull off a 65"?
The 900E's looked good, definitely not as sexy as the OLED or QLED. Didn't get much pop, could have been the instore setup and demo. The Z9D makes it look just sad though, which it should for its price. A 55" curved Z9D for under $2500 would be my perfect world.
Found a store that had the TCL 55P605 on display. Did not look very good. Nice and bright but some serious shadows at the corners. Not much gloss and I prefer high gloss. HDR looked like it would be fine but SDR could be pretty blah.
Will keep scouring owners threads tonight to try and decide.
Here's the thread Luke's talking about. Reports are that you can indeed turn off the 60s dimming timer on the 2017s as well. Whether or not this could cause increased IR or potential burn-in is anyone's guess though.
It is not that cleartype is bad. It is perfectly serviceable. It is just that cleartype on standard RGB pixel layout works a littler better. The difference in windows is primarily noticeable on medium size fonts (the type you see on web page headers). On small fonts like the text of this forum you cannot see the difference. Be prepared to go through the cleartype adjustment a few times to find optimal setting.
I generally avoid running this monitor at lower resolutions. For gaming I found 4kp60 superior to 1080p120. The text looks like a blurry mess at 1080p (there is never really a reason to run it at lower resolution. At 55inch the 100 DPI scaling is perfect)
With a 55 inch monitor my eyes are ~3ft away from the screen and I would not want the monitor to be any closer (I use 100% DPI scaling). With 65 inch you will likely have to push back further (seriously 55 is huge for computer monitor, 65 would be humongous). Also consider the issue of height. With a 55 inch screen I have to set my monitor a few inches below the desk to have it be at comfortable height (with eye line 1/4 from the top). With a 65 inch monitor this will be an even bigger problem.
Another thing to consider is wrangling and mounting the monitor. The 55 inch is already heavy and unwieldy (you can only safely grab it at the bottom since the top 2/3 is like 3mm thin). 65 inch would be even worse.
That being said if all you are going to do is read text on the screen all day then you do not really need OLED. You can get an LCD screen that will do the job for half the price.
ziocomposite
Limp Gawd
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- Sep 20, 2011
- Messages
- 192
The 2016 also has this issue but there was a way to turn it off via Service Menu. It used to happen with GOT for me since many scenes stay dark for some time and it would reduce even more lol. You may want to check AVSforum to see if the 2017 has a way to turn this off as well.
It just followed me home like a lost puppy. I tried to talk myself into a KS8500, actually had one ordered this morning but they jacked the price up $100 at the last second so canceled it. If there were any in store I would probably just get one. I've wanted an OLED for so long I had to see if its actually viable for everyday PC usage. Only done the bare setup. Still not getting a signal from my U-Verse box for some reason. Finding 150% scaling in Windows seems to work very well. Cleartype is pretty garbage at 100% scale but perfectly readable at 150%. It's a beautiful set, hopefully its still a keeper after a few days.
Congratulations Draco.
It might be worth trying a different cable. The C7 is pickier about cables then my JS9000 was.
HDR has separate settings so make sure you adjust both HDR and non-HDR. Sharing my settings with things I learned:
Go to "all inputs" and then select "Edit Icon" and change your input to PC. That is required to get 4:4:4 and low input lag.
Go to All settings ->General->HDMI ultra HD deep color and turn it on.
Picture->Picture Mode settings -> Game(user)
These are my subjective settings:
OLED light: 100 (80 when I use it for work with lots of white windows)
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 50 (as high as you can go before you loose perfect black)
Sharpness: 10 (neutral value, below 10 it does softening, above sharpening)
Color: 50 (higher increases saturation)
Tint: 0
Color Temperature: W30 (the default C30 is ludicrously blue)
Advanced Controls->Gamma: Low (setting this higher just crushes your dark colors)
Picture Options->Black level: High (this is the full 0-255 range, make sure to adjust your video card to same)
Thanks Ziran!
I had most of that set but was using a expert dark config. Still kind of confusing on if you get the 21 input latency on just setting it to PC icon or if it has to also be in Game mode? If it doesn't have to be in Game mode to get 4:4:4 and low input lag what does it gain you using that mode in Windows? You loose the option to set some of the options when in game mode.
Most of the movies I watch are down*cough*loaded so I want to keep some decent visual quality in PC. I tried those settings in Game mode, got pretty comparable visuals in Windows except the Brightness 50 turned my solid black background grey. Going down to 40 fixed that but watching some good 1080P movies didn't look as good.
Using Picture Mode Expert (Dark Room)
OLED Light 60-100 (trying to not run it at as low as I can most of the time)
Contrast 85
Brightness 50
Color Gamut Auto
Gamma 2.2
Black Level Low
I switched out the hdmi cable on the cable box and that got me signal. I used the same kind though and noticed they are labeled source and tv so might have had the first one plugged in wrong. Never paid attention what end of an hdmi cable was plugged into which.
I had most of that set but was using a expert dark config. Still kind of confusing on if you get the 21 input latency on just setting it to PC icon or if it has to also be in Game mode? If it doesn't have to be in Game mode to get 4:4:4 and low input lag what does it gain you using that mode in Windows? You loose the option to set some of the options when in game mode.
Most of the movies I watch are down*cough*loaded so I want to keep some decent visual quality in PC. I tried those settings in Game mode, got pretty comparable visuals in Windows except the Brightness 50 turned my solid black background grey. Going down to 40 fixed that but watching some good 1080P movies didn't look as good.
Using Picture Mode Expert (Dark Room)
OLED Light 60-100 (trying to not run it at as low as I can most of the time)
Contrast 85
Brightness 50
Color Gamut Auto
Gamma 2.2
Black Level Low
I switched out the hdmi cable on the cable box and that got me signal. I used the same kind though and noticed they are labeled source and tv so might have had the first one plugged in wrong. Never paid attention what end of an hdmi cable was plugged into which.
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If you leave the icon as default "HDMI" you are going to get 4:2:2. To get 4:4:4 you have to switch the input icon/type to "PC"
Setting the game(user) mode disables most of the processing options but gives you the lowest input lag. Some of these options are nice for movie playing (removing judder etc). So you can either switch between game and others or you can use the TVs internal player to play movies (yes it handles .mkv just fine). I set up my Synology NAS as a video station and the TV can access that directly over the network. The internal player also handles HDR and 10/12 bit content correctly (which Windows players tend to not support properly).
It is a common misconception to compare human reaction times to whatever the input/network/pixel response lag happens to be. For online gaming and competitive gaming, where contestants compete against each other on reaction times, all the times add up, and the contestant who has the fastest reaction time in this whole pipeline of delays, be it 1.0ms faster, is statistically better off to win, because 250.0ms is still smaller than 251.0ms. That is why minimizing all sources of delays are considered important, and the online player without that extra 15 msec of delay is statistically better off, even though he might not be able to visually discern whether he has that 15 msecs of delay in effect or not. This is true even if game update rates or other network processing rates are heavily quantized to e.g. multiples of 10/20/50msecs, since these are two independent edge triggered events that are not in sync. Agreed that low networking update rates are a big potential source of variance to latency, though that does not preclude seeking to optimize other sources of lag.
Microsoft Research have a video which is a great demonstration of latency:
Human reaction times don't really factor into it. Lower latency is always better.
That is the odd thing. Its supposed to now get 21 ms input lag in any mode when set to PC. At least according to the rtrolls:
Update 04/24/2017: Turning on PC mode on any of the picture modes will result in input lag of about 21ms.
Will have to look into the built in player.
I bought a 55" C7 LG last week...I don't use it for gaming as I have a dedicated gaming monitor but wow the picture quality is stunning (I'm coming from a Panasonic VT30 plasma)...black levels are literally pitch black and perfect...colors pop off the screen...I haven't even got it calibrated yet as I'm using some calibration settings I found online...I also haven't watched any native 4K content yet (I don't have a 4K Blu-ray player)...I did watch some Amazon 4K streaming and HDR is definitely a game-changer...Dolby Vision looks better then standard HDR...this is the best picture quality hands down (I do hear the 2017 Sony 4K sets are also really good)
How funny that your words sound like me earlier these year when I used for the first time my 65" B6 OLED TV. Up to today I think the same and I enjoy it every single day!
I can attest to that too. Best image quality for computer use. No contest. Best monitor, since the death of CRTs.
Loving this thread so far. I bought and returned a 2016 B6 because the ABL (Automatic backlight) would fluctuate too much. The picture quality blew my mind. I plan on getting a C7 assuming that web browsing will be a more stable experience. Even in games like Dragon Age inquisition I found the ABL would bounce around too much.
I've heard if you set the OLED light to 34 then ABL won't change, can anyone confirm this?
Also, for those of you running the OLED at 100, do you see a lot of ABL fluctuation in games, browsing, etc? This will be my primary computer display. I hate LCDs.
I'm running 30 in Windows and I still see it go a little dim if I let the screen sit for a while but one scroll and its back up. I don't notice it when gaming ever that I can remember. If it does start to bother me I will dig up my Harmony remote to get into the service menu and turn it off.
Man, since the day I bought it I've been running it at oled light 35 and below. I use it for browsing day and night - never seen the ABL not a single time.
You do get dimming when you leave the monitor idle for several minutes. But this is completely different technology. It is aimed at energy saving and can be completely disabled from within the service menu. You will need to buy a special service remote control to access that for about 15 buck.
I was seeing ABL fluctuation during PC usage at factory settings, and I did try lowering the OLED LIGHT setting to no avail [B7]. Wound up taking the advice of someone on the AVForum owners thread and set the OLED Light to 100, and moved contrast up starting from 55 until I reached 70, which for me made the picture appear vibrant while not negatively affecting black levels [100/70]. Also noticed the B7 took a long time to burn in, and had strange artifacts until it did -- anywhere from 60 - 240 hours [mine was probably closer to the latter, which caused me to fret I had a lemon]. The below picture settings vary GREATLY from my out of the box quick calibration; the image burn in caused a drastic change in picture quality, and once burned in the picture didn't require as much modification from out of the box presets. As an example, I had the Color Temp at Warm1 originally, because Warm2 made whites look yellow/orange, whereas now Warm1 makes whites look blue.
Current PC settings
- Icon -- PC
- Picture Mode -- ISF Expert (Bright Room)
- OLED LIGHT -- 100
- Contrast -- 70
- Brightness -- 50
- H Sharpness -- 10
- V Sharpness -- 10
- Color -- 55
- Tint -- 0
- Expert Controls
- Dynamic Contrast -- Off
- Super Resolution -- Off
- Color Gamut -- Wide
- Edge Enhancer -- Off
- Color Filter -- Off
- Gamma -- 2.4
- White Balance
- Color Temperature -- Warm2
- Method -- 2 Points
- Pattern -- Outer
- Point -- High
- Red -- 0
- Green -- 0
- Blue -- 0
- Picture Options
- Noise Reduction -- Off [Locked]
- MPEG Noise Reduction -- Off [Locked]
- Black Level -- Low
- Real Cinema -- Off [Locked]
- Motion Eye Care -- Off
- True Motion -- Off [Locked]
- General Options
- HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Color
- HDMI 1 -- Off; in the one game I tested, both HDMI settings caused image degradation [washed out colors] or artifacts [pink screen] -- Mass Effect Andromeda on Windows 10, newest Nvidia Drivers, GTX 970. Albeit, I've heard success with the HDR gaming in MEA from reviewers, so YMMV. Turning on HDR does require you change the Picture options to Game, or you'll see a spike in input lag.
- HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Color
https://www.avforums.com/threads/lg...scussion-thread.2094250/page-17#post-25291610
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I know it may make me an iconoclast, albeit you can lower the resolution of the TV to increase the amount of FPS you're getting and lock them at the VSync. Have done so with the Witcher 3 which worked out rather nicely. My opinion, it's better to max out the eye candy at a lower resolution than have it set to a higher res with lower details and a FPS dip. Currently, am playing Overwatch this way with the B7 set to 1080p @ 120 hz @ Epic detail.
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Yeah, man, variable refresh rates is what you wish for everytime you game with SLI enabled. With one card - there is just no lag.
With SLI you need to lock the fps to 60 and have prerendered frames set to 3. Games run smooth like butter (where SLI is supported and sufficient) but the lag is of course noticeable.
Playing Crysis 2 now, and wow, never saw this game run so smoothly. The cards are asus strix 1080ti oc.
You can have much less lag if you lock fps to 58fps and set prerendered frames to 1, but the games will feel very choppy.
Another option is smooth vsync - smooth gameplay and no lag. But then, in some games it will occasionally lock fps to 30fps for several seconds and the game will stutter during that time. Not an option, it is rather a demo of what things may look like with variable refresh rate is introduced.
Gaming in 1080p on a 55" is not the best idea.
Gaming in 1080p on a 55" is not the best idea.
Depends on where you're sitting. The B7 handles down scaling to 1080p splendidly.