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2017 LG OLED

Odellus said:
i don't think GPUs are ever going to be enough for 4K if things continue as they are. we either need a huge leap in GPU performance which is unlikely or game devs need to stop pushing graphics which is probably even more unlikely.
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70-80% isn't enough of a jump for you? Because that is how much faster a GTX 1080 is over a GTX 980 at 4K.
 
Vega you have a 55" OLED? How is it? I'm looking into them now that it seems neither OLED manufacturer (Sony or LG) is going to be releasing a new curved or small model. Is 55" just too huge for good text?
 
Panel said:
Vega you have a 55" OLED? How is it? I'm looking into them now that it seems neither OLED manufacturer (Sony or LG) is going to be releasing a new curved or small model. Is 55" just too huge for good text?
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It's about 80 dpi, pretty much equivalent to 1920x1080 on a 27" monitor.
 
Panel said:
Which is supposed to suck, is it not?
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Well you also need to consider that if you're using a 55" TV as a monitor, you're not sitting as close to it as a normal monitor. You're likely going to be 4 feet or so away from it, so the perceived sharpness should be higher.
 
Armenius said:
70-80% isn't enough of a jump for you? Because that is how much faster a GTX 1080 is over a GTX 980 at 4K.
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40-60 fps averages with minimums that are often in the 30s isn't enough of a jump, no.
 
Panel said:
Vega you have a 55" OLED? How is it? I'm looking into them now that it seems neither OLED manufacturer (Sony or LG) is going to be releasing a new curved or small model. Is 55" just too huge for good text?
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Yes, I use a OLED55C6P. It's a fantastic display. Not sure about Sony or Panasonic OLED offerings this year as far as curved. Definitely won't be a smaller than 55", that takes a whole new production line. As for 55" and PPI discussions, viewing distance must come into the equation to make the discussion relevant. I sit about 3.5 feet from the display, so the PPI isn't that bad. Definitely offset by the ridiculous immersion.

If you really want a curved version you can probably pick up the same display now for under $2K. The new sets are going to release at $3K to $4K for the 55".
 
Yep, prices are going down to make way for new sets. Likely around $1500-$1700 range depending on retailer. Currently $2k at major retail
 
Vega said:
Huh? My overclocked Titan-XP can handle all of my games at 4 K so far
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What games are you playing?
Looking at this test of sixteen 2016 games, the highest recorded difference between a 1070 and a Titan XP is 62.5% (2/16 games) and the difference is 44% on average.
My 1070 won't even stay above 60 FPS minimums in some games at 1080p on Ultra, and I have to drop many settings to low/medium to achieve a stable 30 FPS at 4K.
So at 62.5% faster, that puts the Titan XP around 50 FPS, not 60 - and that's at a mixture of settings not Ultra.

It's not a 4K GPU, it's a 1440p GPU. 4K requires something at least twice as fast.
If you have a G-Sync display you might be able to get away with it, since that does not require that you never drop below 60 FPS, but these OLED televisions have a fixed refresh rate for now.
Hopefully the 2018 models will have HDMI 2.1's VRR Game Mode.
 
zone74 said:
What games are you playing?
Looking at this test of sixteen 2016 games, the highest recorded difference between a 1070 and a Titan XP is 62.5% (2/16 games) and the difference is 44% on averagille.
My 1070 won't even stay above 60 FPS minimums in some games at 1080p on Ultra, and I have to drop many settings to low/medium to achieve a stable 30 FPS at 4K.
So at 62.5% faster, that puts the Titan XP around 50 FPS, not 60 - and that's at a mixture of settings not Ultra.

It's not a 4K GPU, it's a 1440p GPU. 4K requires something at least twice as fast.
If you have a G-Sync display you might be able to get away with it, since that does not require that you never drop below 60 FPS, but these OLED televisions have a fixed refresh rate for now.
Hopefully the 2018 models will have HDMI 2.1's VRR Game Mode.
Click to expand...

Titan XP sli probably
 
zone74 said:
What games are you playing?
Looking at this test of sixteen 2016 games, the highest recorded difference between a 1070 and a Titan XP is 62.5% (2/16 games) and the difference is 44% on average.
My 1070 won't even stay above 60 FPS minimums in some games at 1080p on Ultra, and I have to drop many settings to low/medium to achieve a stable 30 FPS at 4K.
So at 62.5% faster, that puts the Titan XP around 50 FPS, not 60 - and that's at a mixture of settings not Ultra.

It's not a 4K GPU, it's a 1440p GPU. 4K requires something at least twice as fast.
If you have a G-Sync display you might be able to get away with it, since that does not require that you never drop below 60 FPS, but these OLED televisions have a fixed refresh rate for now.
Hopefully the 2018 models will have HDMI 2.1's VRR Game Mode.
Click to expand...

My 2050 MHz Titan-XP handles 4K Ultra BF1 without ever dropping below 60 FPS. Witcher 2 maxed out will only occasionally drop below 60 FPS. I usually don't trust those review sites as they very rarely know how to tweak or setup systems properly.
 
I thought OLED was absolutely horrible for burn-in / image retention, I'm surprised people even consider them for computer monitors based on that... or is it getting better?
 
pooshda said:
I thought OLED was absolutely horrible for burn-in / image retention, I'm surprised people even consider them for computer monitors based on that... or is it getting better?
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I've seen no one who uses them complain, so I'm assuming that they've gotten considerably better. That's just a guess though, not confirmed.
 
Panel said:
I've seen no one who uses them complain, so I'm assuming that they've gotten considerably better. That's just a guess though, not confirmed.
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That would be excellent news, everything I read has scared me away from the awesome LG sets because they're OLED, it sucked because they're rated for some of the best picture quality and for PC use which made me want one but then I read so much about burn in it made me look elsewhere, I guess maybe someday down the road I can go after one like that if it's true.
 
I game for about 2 or 3 hours a night on my E6 OLED, along with occasional PC monitor use. Not home now so can't tell you hours in use but I have had it since August 2016 so I'd estimate its at about 360 "gaming" hours, i.e. 360 hours with a fixed static elements on screen. No burn in, and very minor temporary image retention that is only visible immediately following shutting the game down, if a gray background is displayed. Same story with other static elements; only visible for a very brief amount of time if a gray background is displayed immediately following a high contrast static image, such as a bright browser window transitioning to a windows shut down screen, or an Xbox One blank background following exiting a game. I notice it because I am looking for it on particular splash screens, but it's never been alarming. It's basically non existent in "normal" HTPC/console gaming use. I am coming from a plasma so I have a "benchmark" so to speak.

Compared to my prior plasma which would display very noticeable IR, with eventual burn in near end of life, it is night and day so far. It is also a different type of IR. On my plasma you could basically see the "ghost" image of whatever was on the screen prior. Here, it is more of a fuzzy blob that disappears very quickly. (Again, assuming you even notice it.)
 
zone74 said:
Moving from 1080p to 4K is a huge jump in GPU requirements.
I have a GTX 1070 and it drops below 60 FPS at 1080p in new games on ultra settings.
At 4K you gain resolution but all the graphics options have to be turned right down.
It's just too much for today's hardware.
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So just run GPU intensive games in a lower resolution. If you are at normal TV distances, you probably couldn't even tell the difference visually.
 
Lateralus said:
What is the lag of the 2016 sets? I looked at the B6 on rtings and they are saying 27ms at 4K and 70ms at 4K/4:4:4. Is it really 70ms with 4:4:4??
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First of all, it's a much better idea to trust rtings than us. Secondly, that does sound about right. LG's OLEDs are know for having atrocious input lag, upwards of 100ms in some cases.
 
Lateralus said:
What is the lag of the 2016 sets? I looked at the B6 on rtings and they are saying 27ms at 4K and 70ms at 4K/4:4:4. Is it really 70ms with 4:4:4??
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Do NOT get a "B" 2016. That model has the old 2015 chipset input lag, which is 71ms at 4K/60 4:4:4.

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/b6

Panel said:
First of all, it's a much better idea to trust rtings than us. Secondly, that does sound about right. LG's OLEDs are know for having atrocious input lag, upwards of 100ms in some cases.
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Actually, the exact opposite is true. Every version of 2016 LG OLED's (besides "B" ) has low 30's input lag at 4:4:4. That is the lowest 4:4:4 input lag out of any TV Rtings or any other site has measured.

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c6

My "C" OLED:
4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4
: 34.0 ms
 
Awesome. What was the lag on the 2016s before they lowered it via the recent software update?

It would be nice to find a cheap C6 if they start dumping them for the 2017s!
 
Vega said:
Do NOT get a "B" 2016. That model has the old 2015 chipset input lag, which is 71ms at 4K/60 4:4:4.

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/b6



Actually, the exact opposite is true. Every version of 2016 LG OLED's (besides "B" ) has low 30's input lag at 4:4:4. That is the lowest 4:4:4 input lag out of any TV Rtings or any other site has measured.

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c6

My "C" OLED:
4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4
: 34.0 ms
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Well shit. I had no idea such was the case. Perhaps I was thinking of older, 2015 sets? I don't really know…

As a side question, do you happen to know if there are any OLEDs that are 120Hz and support it as a 1080p input?
 
Just wait for the 2017 sets if you want a giant oled monitor. Supposely lag has been further reduced to 21ms. Whether or not that is with 4:4:4 is yet to be confirmed but seeing as how they reduced lag from 50ms to 34ms in a single year I dont see why 21ms is impossible. Im waiting for rtings to test one out myself.
 
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Vega said:
Good if true. I'd wait for Rtings to test and verify.
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Rtings says the input lag is already under 30ms as of 1/5/17. However this is WITHOUT 4:4:4. That firmware update doesnt state whether it includes 4:4:4. Oh well whenever its out ill give it a shot.
 
Vega said:
Do NOT get a "B" 2016. That model has the old 2015 chipset input lag, which is 71ms at 4K/60 4:4:4.
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To be more clear, if you are using these TVs as a computer monitor, then I agree, the B isn't the best choice right now, but future firmware updates can always change that. I mean look at what they did with the latest firmware update. They made the B the fastest OLED of the whole series (27-28ms outside of 4:4:4), making it the best choice for console gaming.
 
I'm praying for a 2016 model price drop. They are currently $1000 *more* expensive than they were several months ago.
 
I was able to pick up the 65C6p for $2400 this January with a reputable Ebay dealer but prices have been going up since then/fluctuating.
 
It's still limited to HDMI 2.0 bandwidth meaning you can't have both 4:4:4 chroma and 10 bit color including HDR. In order to do HDR you have to go to lower than 4:4:4.

Next year should have HDMI 2.1 which will have plenty of bandwidth to solve that problem.

I'd love to see an OLED 40" display port 1.4 monitor in the meantime but I don't see that happening.
 
srphoenix said:
It's still limited to HDMI 2.0 bandwidth meaning you can't have both 4:4:4 chroma and 10 bit color including HDR. In order to do HDR you have to go to lower than 4:4:4.

Next year should have HDMI 2.1 which will have plenty of bandwidth to solve that problem.

I'd love to see an OLED 40" display port 1.4 monitor in the meantime but I don't see that happening.
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Thiz i will switch form my b6 to the frist year that has 2.1 on it.
 
srphoenix said:
It's still limited to HDMI 2.0 bandwidth meaning you can't have both 4:4:4 chroma and 10 bit color including HDR. In order to do HDR you have to go to lower than 4:4:4.

Next year should have HDMI 2.1 which will have plenty of bandwidth to solve that problem.

I'd love to see an OLED 40" display port 1.4 monitor in the meantime but I don't see that happening.
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Unless my math is wrong 10-bit HDR with 4:4:4 chroma sampling up to 60 Hz should be supported by HDMI 2.0b. I don't know what the bandwidth overhead for HDR or anything else is, but raw SDR at about 15 Gbps fits into the maximum HDMI bandwidth of 18 Gbps.
 
Armenius said:
Unless my math is wrong 10-bit HDR with 4:4:4 chroma sampling up to 60 Hz should be supported by HDMI 2.0b. I don't know what the bandwidth overhead for HDR or anything else is, but raw SDR at about 15 Gbps fits into the maximum HDMI bandwidth of 18 Gbps.
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Your math isn't wrong, but as you note, you're not accounting for any overheads. Just the 8b/10b encoding that HDMI uses reduces the effective bandwidth of HDMI 2.0b to 14.4 Gbps. The best HDR we'll get over HDMI 2.0 is 4K/60 12-bit 4:2:2.
 
I have been using my E6P since June 2016 for alot of PC Gaming. Witcher 3 looks phenominal @4K 4:4:4. Input lag isn't too bad, but ofcourse I would welcome lower input lag. If these new 2017 models really bring it down considerably more, I wouldn't mind trading my E6 for a newer model.

BTW someone mentioned the new firmwire for the 2016 models have lowered the input lag? Can anyone confirm if this is true, and more so for 4K @ 4:4:4?

Cheers.
 
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