$1800 budget in no rush.. Build now or wait 2 months?

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by vidoprof, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. vidoprof

    vidoprof Limp Gawd

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    SO I have a rig that is decent at best. It's older for sure. (i5-4570 @3.2ghz, 32gb ram, GTX650). I am getting into video editing now though using Premiere Pro.. (nothing crazy, but I would like to spend what I have to in order to not be bottlenecked).

    So I am thinking of this: (I DO NOT play games at all)

    i8700k - super mild OC (whatever the MOBO can get me super safely)
    MOBO - Z370-A

    Cooler : 212 EVO or open to suggestions.

    1060 GPU - 3gb or 6gb depending on left over money.
    (1) m.2 drive - 960 Evo 500gb
    (1) m.2 drive - 970 1TB
    (1) 4tb WD Black drive (already have this)
    16 or 32GB ram - unsure brand

    550-650W PS


    SO.. I CAN wait.. Is there anything coming out in the next 2-3 months that would make it make sense to wait?

    Thanks everyone.

    Ryan
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  2. ReaperX22

    ReaperX22 Gawd

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    What program are you going to be using? If Premier, intel makes sense, and TBH you could probably get away with the non-k model, lock the multiplier to 46, and let it run max turbo instead of worrying about an OC.

    You may have better luck with a ryzen based system (2700x?) depending on the programs you want to use, whether the higher clock speed assists more Intel side, or the extra cores Ryzen side.

    I don't expect anything fancy or amazing to arrive in the coming months, but I'm happy to be corrected.
     
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  3. jmilcher

    jmilcher 2[H]4U

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    Another vote for 2700x... For production work non gaming.
     
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  4. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo [H]ardness Supreme

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    Wait and save a few more hundred dollars between now and then to add to your total.

    Do not go with AMD. Forget the savings, it's really not that much. What you gain is performance. Worth the extra $100+ dollars.
    Money
    9900K is coming out for $450 or so in the next 60 odd days. Asus ROG Heo Maximus x390 will be $250.

    nVidia GTX 1170 for $550 or so dollars. Samsung 500GB 970 EVO NVMe for $225, DDR4 16gb under $200. Case and PSU a few more hundred dollars. You're well within your budget I think.

    AMD still trails Intel in performance. Don't let the AMD fanboys convince you otherwise.The 9900K will be 8 Core / 16 Thread and will be well ahead of AMD.

    Money doesn't grow on trees. Aim high and get the best you can for your hard earned money.

    Intel, Asus ROG, Samsung, Nvidia ... are the number one brands ... by the numbers. Make every single dollar count. This is the best advice you will get.

    If you had less money I would have recommended AMD as they are more budget oriented but you don't. $1,800+ dollars will allow you to get the best of the best. Aim for that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
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  5. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You don’t have to spend anywhere near $1800 for a fast video editing PC

    And if you want to spend that much then consider an AMD Threadripper. You can get the 1950x 16core, 32 thread CPU for $650 now at Microcenter.

    That’ll run circles around anything Intel makes for the same price in the realm of video editing.
     
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  6. vidoprof

    vidoprof Limp Gawd

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    Looking farther down the thread I see the 9900k is coming out soonish. I wasn't sure I could afford that and the $250 mobo to go with it. I have to look more closely at my budget. Thanks for the heads up and your thoughts.
     
  7. vidoprof

    vidoprof Limp Gawd

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    I can probably go as high as $2,000.00 maybe $2,100. I am trying to stick to the $1,800 if possible cause I still need a decent laptop for photo editing and a touchscreen too. That being said. IF waiting a couple months makes sense (with the 9900k coming out maybe it does). If I went with the 8700 I could save $150 on CPU, and $100 on mobo too. Does the 8700 work with the x390?

    I was thinking of saving money and getting a 1060 since the GPU isn't a HUGE benefit in Premiere.

    Wouldn't 32gb of ram be way more beneficial than 16gb here?

    i8700 = $300
    Z370-A = $170
    32 gb Ram = $400
    Cooler = $40
    500gb m.2 Evo = $225
    1Tb m.2 Evo = $400
    PSU = $100 (that right?)
    1060 = $300
    Case = $100

    THAT comes to $2,035. IF I added the 9900, x390 and gtx 1170 I would add $500 to that number.. That's a little out of the range of where i want to be.

    Thanks for the heads up on stuff coming out, just don't think it's in the budget.

    Ryan
     
  8. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardForum Junkie

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    SixFootDuo is simply wrong in suggesting Intel as it would relate to Intel vs Threadripper for video editing/productivity per dollar. Do your own research O.P..
     
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  9. vidoprof

    vidoprof Limp Gawd

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    That's why I come here. :)

    What are your thoughts?

    Ryan
     
  10. Neapolitan6th

    Neapolitan6th Gawd

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    Novice here, but doesn't Premier use gpu acceleration?

    I believe it unfortunately is one of the programs that favors clockspeed coupled with gpu acceleration unless I got that confused with a different piece of software?

    Even Intel's iGPUs offer acceleration now for video editing.

    I know there is a lot of video editing software that would LOVE threadripper, but I'm just not sure Premier is one of those.

    Please correct me if I am misinformed.
     
  11. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo [H]ardness Supreme

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    I would be very hesitant to recommend a CPU that will be 16 or 17 months old by the time he is building his new system. In fact if he were to follow this advice, just a handful months into ownership that CPU will have been 2 years old. That's just not good advice. If you think it is, then you're clearly not truly interested in giving this guy good honest unbiased advice. There is a lot more to consider than just "more cores" from my POV.

    I would also quickly add that there is no right or wrong advice here. Truth be told, we are talking about shaving seconds between both platforms. I'm not sure I would call anyone "simply wrong."

    My advice is all encompassing. I look at re-sellability, I look at performance from all perspectives, meaning - desktop, gaming and productivity. I also look at and consider platform maturity. AMD is not there yet. Perhaps in 2019 - 2020. Once performance is equal to Intel, if that is even possible considering AMD did 1.5 billion in revenue in 2017 to Intel's 165 billion in revenue for 2017.

    Another thing people who recommend AMD do not talk about / consider and I think this is because they just do not understand it, but RAM speed, inter-connect speed, several other I/O metrics are slower than Intel. Even apple to apples, 2133 would be slower on AMD than it would be on Intel. There are a lot of articles out there on the subject. Again, no right or wrong but we are talking raw performance and who does it best.

    I also just like NEW SHIT. You can't go wrong. BTW, the x390 is just a rebadged x370.

    For the record, I build Workstations for a living. I just recently built a Workstation for a client consisting of 2 x AMD Epyc 7601 CPU's, a Supermicro Motherboard MBD-H11DSI, 2 x Noctua Epyc Coolers, 128GB DDR4 2133 ECC Micron Branded Memory and a Supermicro Server Case, PSU and a 2nd hand AMD FirePro S9100 for just under $14,500 and billed the client out at $19,995. I think AMD is awesome in certain applications. Clearly.

    So I understand this space very well. But it's not hard and a lot others on these forums do as well. Just for fun I will mention that everyone here on HardOCP drives past cars my Workstations have designed parts for using Solidworks, Catia, Siemens NX, etc. I had ZERO input in any of those designs but my Workstations did render out those parts and you can beat the living shit out of my Workstations day after day. Parts for Fiat-Chrysler, GM and Ford. I think 5 different models but this is a changing process as the company is vying for / being added to new projects depending on if a new model has been green-lit.

    While the other guy isn't exactly "wrong" .. I wouldn't say that. I would tell you to aim for performance across the board. Regardless of how you arrive at your end goal, how you get there really does make a difference in my humble opinion.

    If I had $2,000 dollars cash as of Oct 1st, 2018, this is what I would purchase:



    Intel 9900K 8 core / 16 thread CPU @ $450
    Asus ROG Hero Maximus WiFi x390 Motherboard @ $250
    Corsair AIO Water-Cooling H100i V2 @ $99
    16GB DDR4 3200Mhz @ @199
    nVidia GTX 1170 @ $550
    Samsung 500GB 970 EVO NVMe SSD @ 225
    5TB Toshiba 7200rpm mechanical @ $120
    NZXT S340 Elite @ $99
    Seasonic 750Watt FOCUS @ $130

    You're right at $2,150 dollars or so. Memory is down trending so it could be $25+ dollars cheaper a few months from now. The new nVidia 1170 could also be $499 instead of $550. This is a somewhat hard number to pinpoint atm.

    And I would wager with anyone I would be able to push this system harder, faster, longer than most. I'm also going to have the best numbers across the board as an average.

    Good luck!
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
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  12. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I don't know that much about photo editing/video creating software frankly. I'll admit it. But I just hear over and over from the youtube content creators how threadripper is a breath of fresh air for their workload and they can still do many other things while processing video at full bore and not feel like their machine is bogged down at all.

    Looks to me like the Threadripper is pretty much comparable to Intel's best consumer chip with Adobe Premier and at the $650 price point that MicroCenter sells it at - I'd personally rather have twice the cores (16/32) for $150 more over the 9900k. (8/16)

    Someone who does this stuff for an occupation or serious hobby - feel free to correct me. I'm on the gaming enthusiast side of the hobby myself and only basing this one what I read and hear.

    Here's an article with the $650 (street priced) 1950x comparing favorably to Intels $1000 (street priced) 12 core Flagship 7920x in Adobe Premier pro. Will the 9900k be faster than the 7920x for productivity workloads? I don't think so.
    https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...PU-Comparison-Skylake-X-vs-Threadripper-1012/


    Original Poster if you do go Intel, you might take a look at Optane technology for your hard-drive. It's only compatible as a boot drive with Gen 7 and up. It's amazing from all the reviews I've read. You could buy a 8TB or 12TB 7,200 RPM platter drive, match it to an Optane drive, and by most accounts I read - have the equivalent speed of that size SSD for most use cases.

    https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8157/intel-optane-memory-32gb-2-nvme-ssd-review/index.html
    100% score

    https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8626/intel-optane-ssd-905p-960gb-aic-nvme-pcie-review/index11.html
    100% score

    Linus says it makes a platter drive as fast as an SSD drive in his testing too.




    Optane, might be enough to make me stay with Intel on a build like you are considering where your video content could take up tons of space. But if you are just going to be working with a 1TB NVME anyway, and moving your projects over to your 4TB platter drive for archive storage - then it won't make any difference.



    There is a google express deal right now that gets you 25% off, (up to $100) that might be of use to you assembling this PC, whatever you decide.
    https://slickdeals.net/f/11778611-s...eturning-customers?src=featured-c-23531-32255



    1950x
    https://slickdeals.net/newsearch.php?forumchoice[]=4&forumchoice[]=9&forumchoice[]=10&forumchoice[]=13&forumchoice[]=25&forumchoice[]=30&forumchoice[]=38&forumchoice[]=39&forumchoice[]=41&forumchoice[]=44&forumchoice[]=53&forumchoice[]=54&forumchoice[]=71&q=amd+1950x&firstonly=1

    I don't think I'd be buying a 8700x on a $1800 budget, when for $300 more you could have well over twice the processing power --- with real world implications to your multicore workloads.
    index.png

    Probably will exceed your budget, but in the next couple months Threadripper 2 is coming out. Which is one reason you can find such discounts on the original 1950x.
    https://hardforum.com/threads/32-core-threadripper-is-coming-out.1961844/



    P.S. -- I'm not an AMD pusher - I'm just suggesting horses for courses here.
    If you have a field to plow you buy a tractor, not a sports car.

    If the chart above was for game performance the 8700k would best the Threadripper - but O.P. says he isn't a gamer.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
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  13. Cylocybin

    Cylocybin Limp Gawd

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    Im staggered by the level of optimism you have for even considering a 1180 could be released this year or even a couple months from now AND be under $600usd at launch
     
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  14. vidoprof

    vidoprof Limp Gawd

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    Thanks so much for the lengthy post (seriously). The optane wouldn't do me any good because the projects will constantly change and once they are done, won't really benefit from Optane, unlike Games that would stay on the Optane drive. That's why I like the m.2 drives since I won't have any project bigger than 1TB at all initially for awhile even. Premiere def takes advantage of more cores, but the price / performance from that same site Puget Systems, shows that the 8700 is the best bang for the buck from what I have seen. The dual m.2 cards are an ENORMOUS boost in performance over higher CPU and GPU. That being said.. I CAN wait a little while since there is no real NEED for me to get a new Desktop yet, so maybe waiting for the 9900 and the 1180 makes sense cause it will push the other stuff even lower then. Maybe I can pick up a 7820x which is 2 more cores than the 8700 for a better deal.

    With the $300 increase in price for the CPU also comes an increase in the MOBO as well. I am trying to cap this at $2k max.. +$50 sure, $200+ probably not. I still need to get a laptop too for on the go stuff.

    I like that Threadripper 2 will be out again pushing down the price of the other stuff.. I guess I will look more then as well.

    DEF NOT a gamer! :)

    Any other thoughts are welcome. Right now I am coming from an old i5-4570 @ 3.2 and a GTX650, so almost anything is a big upgrade. (p.s. Where could I sell my old rig? even if for a small amount to fund the rest)

    Thanks
    Ryan G
     
  15. GoldenTiger

    GoldenTiger 3.5GB GTX 970 Slayer

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    The fs/FT forums here might be a good start :).
     
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  16. whatevs

    whatevs Limp Gawd

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    First, I would not skimp out on RAM. 32GB minimum.

    Don't go AMD if this is for professional work. Ryzen/TR is still "gen 1" class platform. It's like video cards, websites talk like its even fight between AMD and Nvidia. However, Nvidia is like 80%+ of the gaming market, there are more GTX 750 Ti's out there than there are all RX 400/500 class cards(for gaming) (if i remember numbers right). It matters for which bugs get found and fixed.

    Ditching RYZEN .... Going Back To INTEL!

    Note, it's because of stability issues he switched back to Intel. Not because of performance. Just wanted to get work done. Not saying AMD is bad, just that it doesn't have critical mass.

    I would agree on waiting for next CPU/chipset/GPU if you're paying that much. Current stuff is pretty old, especially considering they are almost rebadges of Skylake. Same with GPU. GTX 1000 is over 2 years old now.


    My caveat would be what impact the impending trade wars with China would have.
     
  17. vidoprof

    vidoprof Limp Gawd

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    The issue with waiting for new CPU / GPU is when is it coming and at what cost? Is the new stuff going to be roughly same pricing with an incremental increase in speed, but NEWER therefore the upgrade path might be better? I know (I think) the 8700 is going to be the max CPU on that platform, so do I upgrade and go with something that isn't at the end of life platform wise?

    Thanks
    Ryan G
     
  18. whatevs

    whatevs Limp Gawd

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    The issue is more that, you could have almost bought this system 2 years ago. You're paying today dollars for yesterdays stuff. If you need to get something, do it. It's not like its a bad system. You can think of it as battle tested by now, with everything having reviews so you don't buy a junk part.

    PCI-E 4.0 and DDR5 are close, but like 1-2+ years close.... So very likely, you will not be able to re-use this builds RAM in next one.

    The next Nvidia GPU product is supposedly already here(was planned to be here about now), just delayed because Nvidia and partners messed up and have a lot of extra inventory because of crypto miners.

    In CPU, maybe 6months ago it was clear cut, go ahead and buy. However, rumors *unclearly* say the next top desktop part might have hardware(not just microcode update) based Specter/Meltdown fixes. Granted, Intel's just fired CEO, with access to the most vital secrets, sold all the stocks he could without going to jail, so he didn't think he or anyone at Intel had anything like a viable path forward.

    Again, you wont be getting a bad system if you buy now. Just not 100% clear cut as it was six months ago. It's definitely not going to be available in next month. I think everyone is thinking before holidays.
     
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  19. AORUS

    AORUS Limp Gawd

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    Why buy a GPU when you are not going to play games just use your motherboard graphics and just buy 12gb of ram and 550w PSU
     
  20. Protog

    Protog n00bie

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    Came across your post while doing my research. I'm on a similar situation except I'm coming from a much older platform (Q9550 + 4GB DDR2 + GTX 960). As I rarely game now and mostly doing photo editing work along with some short 1080p content creation this old rig still barely able to handle the tasks. Been a premiere and ps user for some time but thinking of switching to davinci resolve and possibly a different photo editing program once have the new rig built. It looks like we will have a similar build coming up, thinking going with the 9900k (or maybe non K if there is one) + 32 GB ram. Got the 512GB 970 pro and a 1TB 860 evo when they are on sale.