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120Hz LCD Info Thread

Going from 120Hz to your eyes to 60Hz for 3d at your eyes, going from full brightness to half the brightness, going from your max FPS to virtually half that FPS, not to mention all the depth problems and ghosting. You also lose detail as you have two separate images being displayed on the same amount of pixels. Those all seriously degrade competitive gaming levels and the only thing you gain is a "neat" 3d effect.

It will be a very long time if ever before competitive gamers that play games like Counterstrike would use 3d. A pro trying to play in 3d would get absolutely destroyed by the same level pro using a normal fast 2d setup.
 
Kaldskryke said:
I don't see how depth cues could possibly do more harm than good. Maybe you're concerned about reduced brightness?
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He is prolly talking more along the lines of decreased sharpness, and the perceived decrease in performance, and the addition of another distraction.
It's like motion blur, it can look great and really add realism when done right, but many don't like it for MP fps games. Sharper images allow for quicker targeting of enemies at range.
 
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The Mitsubishi MDT231WG, while rumored and reported as being a 120Hz IPS, only does 120Hz by way of interpolation, like 120Hz TVs do. It will not take 120Hz from the video source.

The proof can be found in this thread.
 
I think after spending a fair amount of time with different 3D monitors (Alienware , Samsung and Acer) I'm about ready to sell them and wait for a IPS 120hz.

The drop in PQ is just so bothersome and the active shutter glasses darken the picture quite a bit. I know that the shutter glass issue is more of a technology requirement and not something that can really be "fixed" at this point (seems the only thing to combat this is super bright 3D TV sets).

I love the responsiveness of 120hz panels , don't get me wrong but the picture is just so much worse. Maybe I'm spoiled by years of quality PVA/IPS panels and I've only ever owned 1 60hz TN panel (ASUS) but I ended up selling it off.

I would really love to see a 120hz IPS panel in the near future , there is plenty of bandwith now with recently released video cards to handle it without question and there seems to be a demand ready and waiting. I would pay upwards of 800+ for one without even a second though.

Just my little rant on 3D panels and there downfalls.
 
Godmachine, I am right there with you.

My 8 year old GDM FW900 CRT is starting to show signs of aging, so every few months I poke around to see if there is something better, or even equivalent. I do 3D gaming sometimes so 120 Hz is a must. So far everything out still looks like a step down to me. If someone came out with a 120Hz IPS/LED at 24-27" I would probably bite but amazingly that is still nowhere on the horizon. If it cost 800.00+, it is still easy to justify as it should last around 10 years, or through several PC upgrade cycles.
 
DDuckMan said:
Godmachine, I am right there with you.

My 8 year old GDM FW900 CRT is starting to show signs of aging, so every few months I poke around to see if there is something better, or even equivalent. I do 3D gaming sometimes so 120 Hz is a must. So far everything out still looks like a step down to me. If someone came out with a 120Hz IPS/LED at 24-27" I would probably bite but amazingly that is still nowhere on the horizon. If it cost 800.00+, it is still easy to justify as it should last around 10 years, or through several PC upgrade cycles.
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Heh, I used to play counter strike competitively circa 2002 with a really nice Mitsubishi Diamondtron CRT. In early 2007 when I finally replaced that with LG 246W LCD, it was a significant downgrade as far as smoothness in 3d gaming goes. When I had the CRT anything under 100 FPS was not acceptable for "serious gaming", 60hz felt so slow and horrible. I am older and not as sensitive to those things now I guess but a 120hz IPS display would be great (TN is shit!).
 
I know a couple of days ago someone posted about the 120hz IPS display that turned out to be interpolation and not true 120hz.

However, i just read an article http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1290587259 on the 23" 240hz LG LCD display.

Don't get too excited, it sounds fake too but... this is the part that has me excited.

"combining 120 Hz technology (refreshes 120 images per second) and scanning backlights where a scanning line scrolls from the top of the panel to the bottom; unnoticeable to the human eye. Scanning backlights is utilized in most new high-end LCD-TVs and reduces the visual perception of blurring from a LCD panel because the sample-and-hold effect is nullified. "
Sample-and-hold effect doesn't exist on CRT Displays, and is what allows it to seem much less blurry than an LCD during motion.

Im still somewhat new to Sample-and-hold, but from what i understand this effect in regular 60hz displays introduced an unchangeable 10ms lag time inside of your actual eye. Please look it up for further explanation.

Now lets assume its a 5-8ms gtg 60hz e-IPS display with Sample-and-hold nullified. And likely more close to 20ms on actual full color spectrum. 20 - 10 = 10ms.

A non nullified display 120hz TN. 2-5ms, with 14-16ms being the actual. 16+10ms = 26ms.

See where im getting at?

More than likely im just making an ass of myself here, and its obvious this isn't how it works, or the upsides are strongly countered by some downside (maybe input lag) would like to hear that from someone though.
 
Are there any 120Hz screens larger than 24"? I have 26" screen at the moment and i'm looking to upgrade it to something better and to try out 3D, don't want to go below 26". Where's the Asus PG276 27" 120Hz screen?
 
Rossi~ said:
Where's the Asus PG276 27" 120Hz screen?
Click to expand...

Don't hold your breath on that one. I've heard it being delayed to summer 2011. That will be 1.5 years after it's announcement if it ends up being true.
 
Although it's not out yet, the recently announced Acer HS244HQ (with HDMI 1.4a support) sounds like another worthy addition to the lineup of 3D monitors. This one should support the Radeon cards in 3D mode. Maybe the OP can add this to the 1st post.
 
sethk said:
Although it's not out yet, the recently announced Acer HS244HQ (with HDMI 1.4a support) sounds like another worthy addition to the lineup of 3D monitors. This one should support the Radeon cards in 3D mode. Maybe the OP can add this to the 1st post.
Click to expand...

hdmi 1.4a support means:
max resolution 1280x720
extra 2 frames of input lag (best case scenario!)
only 60hz if you don't use stereo 3d content with shutter glasses

so unless it also accepts real 120hz over dl-dvi or dp it doesn't belong here
 
dowant120hz said:
hdmi 1.4a support means:
max resolution 1280x720 extra 2 frames of input lag (best case scenario!) only 60hz if you don't use stereo 3d content with shutter glasses
so unless it also accepts real 120hz over dl-dvi or dp it doesn't belong here
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Quite true, but I just assumed that it would do HDMI 1.4a in addition to DL-DVI. If it doesn't that's just silly.

It will be nice to have HDMI 1.4a support for PS3 3D gaming / 3D blu-ray support and providing general support for future consumer 3D devices which are more likely to use HDMI 1.4a.
 
I got my ASUS VG236HE today, I don't have a DVD drive so I just installed the latest NVIDIA drivers (I also got a new GTX 570, coming from CF 4890s), and went ahead and opted to install the 3D vision driver and 3D vision controller driver. I went to the ASUS website and all it had were the same NVIDIA drivers I had just installed. I was really excited and went to set my monitor to use 120Hz at 1920x1080, and then once it comes back from the change, the image looks horrible and corrupt. It turns out it's only displaying half the horizontal resolution, and I read that some TVs and monitors do this because of polarization techniques and older "chips" in the monitor that only support 960x1080 at 120Hz. Can I get this monitor to do true 1920x1080 at 120Hz or am I out of luck and need another 120Hz panel? I searched around a lot and I couldn't find anyone else with this problem.
 
Odellus said:
I got my ASUS VG236HE today, Can I get this monitor to do true 1920x1080 at 120Hz or am I out of luck and need another 120Hz panel? I searched around a lot and I couldn't find anyone else with this problem.
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Are you using DVI-D connection?
 
Nightbird said:
Are you using DVI-D connection?
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Yes. I'm fairly certain anyway. I'll go make sure.

Haha wow I feel like a complete moron. Thanks for making me check. I just reused the same cable I was using from my last monitor and it turns out it was just single link DVI-D.
 
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My wife got me 3x Acer 235HZ for christmas but now I gotta wait for the dam DVI-Displayport adapter to come in on Tuesday...arg lol.
 
Anyone else have an issue when running two monitors at 120hz that whenever I scroll up and down via mousewheel my left most display flickers...gonna update drivers again but I thought I had the latest. I set them both back to 60Hz and now the main screen does the flickering.
 
Odellus said:
I got my ASUS VG236HE today, I don't have a DVD drive so I just installed the latest NVIDIA drivers (I also got a new GTX 570, coming from CF 4890s), and went ahead and opted to install the 3D vision driver and 3D vision controller driver. I went to the ASUS website and all it had were the same NVIDIA drivers I had just installed. I was really excited and went to set my monitor to use 120Hz at 1920x1080, and then once it comes back from the change, the image looks horrible and corrupt. It turns out it's only displaying half the horizontal resolution, and I read that some TVs and monitors do this because of polarization techniques and older "chips" in the monitor that only support 960x1080 at 120Hz. Can I get this monitor to do true 1920x1080 at 120Hz or am I out of luck and need another 120Hz panel? I searched around a lot and I couldn't find anyone else with this problem.
Click to expand...

I picked one of these up 2 weeks ago. Are you using the DVI cable that came with the display and it's plugged directly into the card, not through a KVM or anything? I'm wonding if it's not getting a dual-link connection.

I installed the 1.42 (I think it was, doing this off of memory) 3D driver kit that their website said to use for the 580.
 
How is the vg236he because i really want a new monitor and i was thinking about this. Ive heard there is a green glow and bad colors but you can tweak them back to almost perfect.

Ive been looking for an upgrade from my acer h233h which im not very impressed with
 
Haven't noticed a bad green glow, but I also turned the green down a bit in the setup because of that one review...now that I'm thinking about it, I might have taken a little too much off, think I'll bump it up a notch or two.

Overall I'm happy with mine. Going from a 16:10 to a 16:9 turned out to not be too painful. The biggest hurt is going from a VA back to a TN panel, meh colors, but that's TN for ya. The front panel buttons are a little bit of a pain, but then it's hard to find any review for anything that doesn't mark the buttons for being a hassle. Even the LG 120hz got some complaints in a review. Once I get the colors to where I want, I won't really have to touch the buttons that much, so it's not a killer.

I think the biggest thing that some people won't like is the glossy display. It's not a dealbreaker for me because I'm used to glossy screens at this point since it seems everything I use has a glossy screen and the glossy screen does make the colors nicer. Just let it collect some dust and don't clean it off, that'll cut the glare. ;) Yes there's some backlight bleed, but again, TN, that's what you get pretty much. It's not enough to really bother me.

I ended up getting mine from Best Buy because their price was actually competitive with Amazon, so basically I ended up paying sales tax but got the ability to take it back to a store if I decided I wasn't going to keep it.

Is the 3D worth it...hard to say for sure, but it has it's cool moments, I recommend grabbing Batman: AA on sale from Steam if you're going to play with 3D, because that's my favorite so far. I've been stocking up on 3D games to play later while they've been on sale. I hadn't even thought about 3D movies until this week because I'm kind of meh on them, but it was nice checking out Avatar in 3D again on the small screen.
 
bitgod said:
Haven't noticed a bad green glow, but I also turned the green down a bit in the setup because of that one review...now that I'm thinking about it, I might have taken a little too much off, think I'll bump it up a notch or two.

Overall I'm happy with mine. Going from a 16:10 to a 16:9 turned out to not be too painful. The biggest hurt is going from a VA back to a TN panel, meh colors, but that's TN for ya. The front panel buttons are a little bit of a pain, but then it's hard to find any review for anything that doesn't mark the buttons for being a hassle. Even the LG 120hz got some complaints in a review. Once I get the colors to where I want, I won't really have to touch the buttons that much, so it's not a killer.

I think the biggest thing that some people won't like is the glossy display. It's not a dealbreaker for me because I'm used to glossy screens at this point since it seems everything I use has a glossy screen and the glossy screen does make the colors nicer. Just let it collect some dust and don't clean it off, that'll cut the glare. ;) Yes there's some backlight bleed, but again, TN, that's what you get pretty much. It's not enough to really bother me.

I ended up getting mine from Best Buy because their price was actually competitive with Amazon, so basically I ended up paying sales tax but got the ability to take it back to a store if I decided I wasn't going to keep it.

Is the 3D worth it...hard to say for sure, but it has it's cool moments, I recommend grabbing Batman: AA on sale from Steam if you're going to play with 3D, because that's my favorite so far. I've been stocking up on 3D games to play later while they've been on sale. I hadn't even thought about 3D movies until this week because I'm kind of meh on them, but it was nice checking out Avatar in 3D again on the small screen.
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Would you say its cons overpower its pros or should i go for a cheaper IPS or something like that. A U2311H mabey?
 
@bitgod - Wow are we like the same person? 0_0
I too recently bought the VG236H off of BB online because of price and easy return (18 months 0% interest financing FTW);mostly use glossy screens, think Batman is the best example of 3D, spent forever trying to calibrate the colors to my liking (especially when compared to my S-IPS NEC's).

I've been using S-IPS panels for the past 5 years so I'm pretty picky when it comes to screen quality, but I'm by no means an expert. I pretty much have to have glossy, as I'm in a cave basically :cool:. I feel like I can see pixels more easily on matte screens and text is clear along with vibrant colors.

I will admit I've not seen a matte IPS panel in the flesh, no Cali B&M carries them that I've noticed. I was (and still are) interested in the Dell U2311, however Dell doesn't have any deals on them at the moment--so it's a waiting game, not to mention QC issues. The version 2s apparently are now out, but this too is a wait and see.

Back to the VG236H....

The 120Hz -- Look it's hard to go back once you've tasted it. Especially if your a big FPS or RTS player. If you live near a Frys check them out, that's how I did.
So far I'd say my preferred settings are as follows:

Standard
Brightness=66
Contrast=80
Trace Free=60
Color temp=Warm

This by default is too bright, however I lower the gamma in Win 7:
Control Panel->Color Management->Advanced Tab->Calibrate display

It's still on the bright side, but I found that this actually helped out a lot with colors.

I also keep a low-light profile on Theater mode when I want to read stuff late at night and not blast my eyeballs.
 
xSal - hmm, hard to say. I'd say it really depends on what you do with your display. I mean, saying that...I love playing games, but more time is spent doing non-gaming really, so would it make more sense to use a display that had a better picture quality than a TN? Sure. But I'm also a moron, I subscribe to the "He who dies with the most toys, wins" theory.

If I had the desktop space for it, I'd probably have this sitting next to my old Benq VA panel and use that as the main screen. But I don't, so here we are. I don't regret the purchase, hell I could still take it back and claim it was an xmas gift.

One minor nit-pick, and maybe this is true for 120hz displays in general, but on my video card, there are 3 clock states. The high-end 3D full speed setting, the low-end 3D half speed, and the 2D super slow speed (clocks at 50Mhz). Well I've found that since I've hooked up this display, it never goes down to the 2D speed now. I just confirmed it's the 120hz setting by putting it back to the 60hz and the speed dropped to the 2D speed. Oh well.

Kube - I'll have to try those settings. I've been too busy fooling with 3D to see if I see a difference in FPS in 2D.
 
New 120Hz monitors Lenovo L2363dwA and Hannspree HS233... the looks of the latter reminds you awfully lot of... http://3dvision-blog.com/lenovo-l2363dwa-is-a-new-3d-vision-ready-3d-lcd-monitor/

I do see some improvements from design though, the frame itself doesn't stick out as much as on the Acer's which many complained about how it was reflected on the innerframe next to the screen due to how deep it sat inside the frame, this looks more like normal depth. Also the stand which many nitpicked has been painted black.
 
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RangerXML said:
I want that new ACER LED 23.6" 120Hz w/HDMI 1.4 and the Nvidia transmitter build in.
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argh, I would rather have a seperate bundle, since it allows me to move it to something else in the future, however, I can defineately see the appeal in this :) A clean desk is a clean desk :D
 
heatlesssun said:
If you're buying three for 3D Surround you're buying redundant equipment unfortunately.
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Actually I have one GD234HZ already, plan to get one more and then for the center monitor get the ACER GN245HQ (I believe this is the monitor) which is the feature packed version (LED, DVI and HDMI for 3D and build in transmitter). Its the exact same dimensions as the GD235HZ and bezel, but cost about 2 times.
 
But this won't work with 3D Surround, all the monitors must be identical unless something has changed since I last saw the requirements for 3D Surround.
 
RangerXML said:
Actually I have one GD234HZ already, plan to get one more and then for the center monitor get the ACER GN245HQ (I believe this is the monitor) which is the feature packed version (LED, DVI and HDMI for 3D and build in transmitter). Its the exact same dimensions as the GD235HZ and bezel, but cost about 2 times.
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According to Nvidia, for 3D Surround, "All displays must be the same make and model 3D Vision-Ready LCD."

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dv-system-requirements-surround-technology.html
 
I was just at Frys and I saw the Benq 120Hz 23 inch LED one their. The display model had some really bad backlight bleed all across the bottom of the screen. Are all the Benq's like that?
 
zod96 said:
I was just at Frys and I saw the Benq 120Hz 23 inch LED one their. The display model had some really bad backlight bleed all across the bottom of the screen. Are all the Benq's like that?
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the displays in shops are usually set at 100% brightness
i've already read a lot about backlight bleed in the benqs though
they seem to have rather poor or no quality control
 
heatlesssun said:
But this won't work with 3D Surround, all the monitors must be identical unless something has changed since I last saw the requirements for 3D Surround.
Click to expand...

Different monitors = different input lag... would totally mess up 3D effect with shutter tech. even if the input lag difference was only 4ms.
 
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