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120Hz LCD Info Thread

Picked up the LG. Not 100% sure what to think. It's sitting next to my old Dell 2407FPW and out of the box there's a definite bluish tint to it, which can be corrected mostly through the settings.

Cloned the displays and played some Left 4 Dead 2 side by side, and I could definitely see the difference. The 120hz LG was noticably smoother, and it was much much easier on my eyes for longer periods. Something about playing FPS games on the Dell made me stop playing FPS games, and I'm pretty sure it was the janky refresh rate. Can see myself using the LG for a long time.

However, I don't really play FPS that much anymore. Had to edit the config file to get World of Warcraft to run at 120hz, and when I did it was crazy smooth. Ran around Dalaran at well over 60fps and was astonished by how easy it was to move around.

There's a TON of backlight bleed along the bottom. It's worse than my 4 year old Dell. But there aren't any dead pixels, which is a minor miracle given my past luck in that department.

Only problem is, I'm going down to 23 inches. The screen is obviously smaller than my 1920x1200 Dell that I feel like I'm missing a lot, about an inch vertically.

It's a great screen but I can't help but feel I'd be better with a 27inch. Just wish there were one being built by someone like LG sometime soon. If this were 27 inch I'd be in heaven ... as it is I'm kinda nonplussed.

Will probably keep it, but I know I'll be upgrading again once a 27inch is available.
 
Congrats! I was worried about going from 24" 1920x1200 to 23" 1920x1080 and I really didn't notice. But I also went from 2 to 3 monitors so that probably help to mitigate the loss of vertical resolution.
 
Supposedly that high backlight bleed is because of the whole "3D" thing. It's meant to compensate for the dark steroscopic glasses you wear for nvidia 3d.
 
Asus is supposedly releasing a 27" 120Hz model in a month or two called the PG276. While I do love 120Hz, I think there is too much sacrificed for it. Crappy TN panels vs IPS, crappy 1080p vs 16:10. I was going to wait for the Asus 27" 120Hz and get 3 of them, but then realized with my love for nVidia Surround. 1080 vertical pixels is waaaaaay too vertically challenged for such a wide screen setup and I went 3x 30" at 7560x1600.
 
Vega said:
Asus is supposedly releasing a 27" 120Hz model in a month or two called the PG276. While I do love 120Hz, I think there is too much sacrificed for it. Crappy TN panels vs IPS, crappy 1080p vs 16:10. I was going to wait for the Asus 27" 120Hz and get 3 of them, but then realized with my love for nVidia Surround. 1080 vertical pixels is waaaaaay too vertically challenged for such a wide screen setup and I went 3x 30" at 7560x1600.
Click to expand...

The viewing angles on this LG in particular are fairly awful. I have to put it on top of some books and it's still not at eye level, and the screen has a bad wash-out problem just by moving my head up an inch. My Dell 2407 has nothing approaching that sort of a problem.

I too have been trying to decide between a nice big 27 or 30 inch with a very dense dot pitch, but have been intrigued by the 120hz monitors, and it does seem to make a difference. But I dunno if it's worth it.

I'd be more interested in the Asus 27 if it wasn't both glossy and in a bezel that's nearly impossible to use multi-monitor. For that matter, the buldge at the bottom of the LG makes it hard to multi-monitor with as well.

Leaning more and more towards taking it back ... will have to try it out for the week and decide. Really glad I didn't jump the gun and order from Newegg where I'd be stuck with a 15% restocking.
 
nbuubu said:
The viewing angles on this LG in particular are fairly awful. I have to put it on top of some books and it's still not at eye level, and the screen has a bad wash-out problem just by moving my head up an inch. My Dell 2407 has nothing approaching that sort of a problem.

I too have been trying to decide between a nice big 27 or 30 inch with a very dense dot pitch, but have been intrigued by the 120hz monitors, and it does seem to make a difference. But I dunno if it's worth it.

I'd be more interested in the Asus 27 if it wasn't both glossy and in a bezel that's nearly impossible to use multi-monitor. For that matter, the buldge at the bottom of the LG makes it hard to multi-monitor with as well.

Leaning more and more towards taking it back ... will have to try it out for the week and decide. Really glad I didn't jump the gun and order from Newegg where I'd be stuck with a 15% restocking.
Click to expand...

Ya, you bring up another issue, the horrible TN viewing angles. They are even more horrible in Surround. I just don't think you can really go from a IPS screen back to a TN, even if it's 120Hz. You lose so much. Now all they need to do is make 120Hz IPS panels, I'd be all over that!
 
Vega said:
Ya, you bring up another issue, the horrible TN viewing angles. They are even more horrible in Surround. I just don't think you can really go from a IPS screen back to a TN, even if it's 120Hz. You lose so much. Now all they need to do is make 120Hz IPS panels, I'd be all over that!
Click to expand...

All I know is that I wouldn't trade my Alienwares for 60Hz IPS monitors, not the best viewing angles but they are fine when seated in front of them and text on these things is SO sharp and they are so easy on my eyes. For graphics work and things that need color accuracy. For gaming and text though these things have 60Hz monitors beat, including IPS monitors. Locking in a game at 120FPS with ZERO lag or tear, IPS just can't do this now. But when it can I'll be there.
 
Vega said:
Ya, you bring up another issue, the horrible TN viewing angles. They are even more horrible in Surround. I just don't think you can really go from a IPS screen back to a TN, even if it's 120Hz. You lose so much. Now all they need to do is make 120Hz IPS panels, I'd be all over that!
Click to expand...

I was aware of all the issues with TN panels, but I've happily used a 2407 for years, and that's just S-PVA (I think). I never thought the LG would be worse than the 2407 in picture quality but it's a major step back.

Even dropping the sharpness to 2 leaves text looking funky, and the backlight bleed is bright blue on dark scenes.

Don't get me wrong I really like the 120hz and the screen is WAY more responsive, but I'm so torn on the size/pic quality/backlight bleed/crappy bezel tradeoff for that responsiveness.

Do I keep it for a handful of fps games? It's a cool toy but for my needs I dunno if I can justify it. It's a solid panel for single-screen game-only use. But I dunno if it's a perfect fit for me. After 6 hours of gaming I'm leaning towards returning it.

I love the 120hz. And if I buy a nice U3011 only to see a 120hz version out in a year I'm going to kick myself.
 
nbuubu said:
I was aware of all the issues with TN panels, but I've happily used a 2407 for years, and that's just S-PVA (I think). I never thought the LG would be worse than the 2407 in picture quality but it's a major step back.

Even dropping the sharpness to 2 leaves text looking funky, and the backlight bleed is bright blue on dark scenes.

Don't get me wrong I really like the 120hz and the screen is WAY more responsive, but I'm so torn on the size/pic quality/backlight bleed/crappy bezel tradeoff for that responsiveness.

Do I keep it for a handful of fps games? It's a cool toy but for my needs I dunno if I can justify it. It's a solid panel for single-screen game-only use. But I dunno if it's a perfect fit for me. After 6 hours of gaming I'm leaning towards returning it.

I love the 120hz. And if I buy a nice U3011 only to see a 120hz version out in a year I'm going to kick myself.
Click to expand...

Well a PVA is really no comparison against a TN either. Generally speaking from a pure still image PQ stand point it is really a debate between IPS and PVA screens.

I don't think a 120hz screen at that kind of resolution is very likely in the near future. Both HDMI and dual link dvi don't have the bandwidth for 120hz at above 1920x1200 (and I think only only 1920x1080 in HDMI's case).
 
heatlesssun said:
All I know is that I wouldn't trade my Alienwares for 60Hz IPS monitors, not the best viewing angles but they are fine when seated in front of them and text on these things is SO sharp and they are so easy on my eyes. For graphics work and things that need color accuracy. For gaming and text though these things have 60Hz monitors beat, including IPS monitors. Locking in a game at 120FPS with ZERO lag or tear, IPS just can't do this now. But when it can I'll be there.
Click to expand...

Like I said, 120Hz is a nice feature. I have a 120Hz here next to my HP ZR30W 30" P-IPS screens. The fluidity is great, but that's the only thing it has over a top of the line IPS screen. Making a direct comparison side-by-side, the TN 120Hz look's just horrible compared.

Are you saying that 120Hz makes text look better, or simply the fact it is a TN panel? On the IPS screen I have, the pixel pitch is finer and the TN panel offers nothing better in text. The IPS screen has much better colors from everything from photo's to games. Contrast ratio is superb on the IPS, the TN screen look's completely washed out and lifeless. Back-light bleed is also much less of a problem on the IPS vs TN. Viewing ghosting tests, the screens to me look identical.

I guess if the only thing you ever did on your computer was play FPS competitively, then it might be worth getting a 120Hz TN over an IPS. For any other reason I would say no. TN has 120Hz going for it, IPS has, well everything else.
 
IPS will always look better next to a TN. We all know this. But for gaming, it seems the 120Hz makes the world of difference, so much so that its worth it over the IPS any day. This is what I have gathered from around the web, here, anand etc... Most of us use our computers for every day usage, but when it comes down to it, we build it to play games.
 
Vega said:
I guess if the only thing you ever did on your computer was play FPS competitively, then it might be worth getting a 120Hz TN over an IPS. For any other reason I would say no. TN has 120Hz going for it, IPS has, well everything else.
Click to expand...

Of course IPS panels produce a better picture but not all monitors are created equal. I'm simply saying that for me that the OptX's picture quality is pretty good even compared side by side to an L246WP which is an M-PVA panel and I think the refresh rate effects more than FPS games, I simply find the screen easier on my eyes.

USMC2Hard4U said:
IPS will always look better next to a TN. We all know this. But for gaming, it seems the 120Hz makes the world of difference, so much so that its worth it over the IPS any day. This is what I have gathered from around the web, here, anand etc... Most of us use our computers for every day usage, but when it comes down to it, we build it to play games.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
120Hz is overrated (in it's current form), just like 3d is overrated (in it's current form). Granted, 120Hz is the future of displays I think and it is really nice, but saying it completely trumps all other aspects of a display so easily is going a bit too far. Especially when the other aspects of the display in which it lacks are so numerous.

I hope for the day 120Hz outgrows cheap 1080p TN, I'll be all over it.
 
Vega said:
120Hz is overrated (in it's current form), just like 3d is overrated (in it's current form). Granted, 120Hz is the future of displays I think and it is really nice, but saying it completely trumps all other aspects of a display so easily is going a bit too far. Especially when the other aspects of the display in which it lacks are so numerous.

I hope for the day 120Hz outgrows cheap 1080p TN, I'll be all over it.
Click to expand...

For FPS players it definitely trumps every other flaw that comes with it currently. Everything else, it is pretty much worthless.
 
DumpALump said:
For FPS players it definitely trumps every other flaw that comes with it currently. Everything else, it is pretty much worthless.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It's somewhat noticeable in other games like SC2, but the units are smaller and harder to click. I really think the 120hz is great for FPS and racing games. I played some Burnout Paradise and actually seeing oncoming traffic is something of a benefit. :)

But I dunno if I'm seeing such a big difference just because I'm comparing it to the relatively slow 2407WFP right next to it. And the fact I'm having to run the 2407 at 1080 is probably adding some additional processing lag.

I dunno if I had a U2711 instead, with faster response times than the 2407, if the difference would be quite so noticeable.
 
Vega said:
120Hz is overrated (in it's current form), just like 3d is overrated (in it's current form).
Click to expand...

3D overrated? Not really sure about that. It has it's issues and some people seem to have physical issues with it but in the games where it's implemented well is incredible with multi-monitor. It's a gaming experience that I'll never give up even if its only here and there, it's just visually stunning when done right.
 
After a ton of use, I've finally come to a conclusion on the LG. It's going back.

I LOVE playing fps on this panel, they are far far more responsive and I've finally figured out why I stopped playing fps games on the 2407wfp.

But it's going back. This is my layman's review of the LG 120hz, and many of the reasons I'm returning this LG are probably not applicable to the other 3D monitors.


Pros:

120hz is smooth and responsive. Amazingly fast.

No noticeable input lag.

Matte screen.


Cons:

Colors are barely adequate.

Viewing Angles are terrible. I never move left/right and haven't cared about viewing angles before, but when I can't even move my head up and down without seeing massive color shifting, there's a problem.

The Bezel is cheap. The bulge on the bottom means that this monitor is inadequate for any sort of multi-monitor setup.

No height adjust. The poor viewing angles means the low fixed position needs to be boosted. It's a bad design.

The Menu Buttons are unresponsive and nearly impossible to see. Repeated button presses don't register, and I need to keep a flashlight nearby to even see where the buttons are. HORRIBLE design.

The size. 23inches is just a tad too small for general use after being used to a 24inch for years at home, and a 27inch iMac at work for the past year.

No console 3D support over HDMI. Don't know if this will ever be implemented, but being able to jack my PS3 into my spare gaming monitor and also get 3D would be a big bonus.

Backlight bleed. The bottom and top are distinctly blue, and very visible in dark scenes.

Standby light. It blinks blue, and since I'm not used to powering down my monitors and this one has a magical invisible power button, it's a nuisance.

The LG beeps. The menu and power-on sounds do not fit a $400 monitor. They sound cheap.


Okay, so the last couple were nitpicks. But I just can't see keeping this monitor beyond this one week. I'll just wait for a decent matte 120hz with a better bezel design before springing for a gaming monitor. The LG isn't good for me.
 
nbuubu said:
After a ton of use, I've finally come to a conclusion on the LG. It's going back.

I LOVE playing fps on this panel, they are far far more responsive and I've finally figured out why I stopped playing fps games on the 2407wfp.

But it's going back. This is my layman's review of the LG 120hz, and many of the reasons I'm returning this LG are probably not applicable to the other 3D monitors.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting. I once considered the LG W2363D as well, but decided to wait for the Viewsonic V3D241wm and the 27" Asus instead.

But tell me, do you think the LG's viewing angles are bad even for a TN panel or are they more or less the same as other TNs?
 
tQz1 said:
Thanks for posting. I once considered the LG W2363D as well, but decided to wait for the Viewsonic V3D241wm and the 27" Asus instead.

But tell me, do you think the LG's viewing angles are bad even for a TN panel or are they more or less the same as other TNs?
Click to expand...

I haven't really used TN panels much, so I'm probably a bad person to ask. I vaguely remember an old IBM laptop screen I had from circa 1999 that was this bad, but at least that one I was able to tilt to get it right.

If I scoot down, and look at the screen at eye-level, it actually looks pretty good. But sitting a few inches above center axis washes out the colors. It's not really noticeable while gaming but it's very visible on still images.

TBH the major reason I want to return it is the cheap bezel and horrible menu button design. If I could tilt it, or play without needing 4 inches of books underneath it to get it to eye level, I'd probably hang on to it.

120hz is definitely the future, and I'd be seriously surprised to see it show up in anything other than a TN panel or more than 1080p in the next couple years. But I just want a better design.

Will probably dive back in with the next generation of Alienware or Acer panels. I need matte, a good bezel, and at least 24 inches. Hopefully there will be some showing up around Q1 2011. This LG has seriously disappointed me.
 
As bad as a 99 IBM laptop? Yea I dunno how much I can take your comments at face value after that comment. Your comments prior had me wondering how much tn vs ips, 5:4 vs 4:3 vs 16:10 vs 16:9 bias were in your comments and that pretty much wrapped it up for me.

hell I'm still trying to figure out how the lower bulge in the bezel is keeping you from going multi monitor? I can understand how it would impede you from stacking it one on top of the other but side by side?

All the same the review and first hand input on your experiences are nice and has helped me some, it just seems as though theres a strong hint of bias towards tn and 16:9 that makes me wonder to myself, "What were you expecting?" 3/4ths of your complaints could easily be tossed out before even purchasing the monitor.
 
nbuubu said:
I haven't really used TN panels much, so I'm probably a bad person to ask. I vaguely remember an old IBM laptop screen I had from circa 1999 that was this bad, but at least that one I was able to tilt to get it right.
Click to expand...

I agree the stand is too basic - no height adjustment, it does tilt however. Once you've put the books underneath it however its exactly the same as every other tft I've used - ie the right height. I suppose if you kept moving the monitor around all the time that could be a problem, but mine just sits on my desk.

nbuubu said:
If I scoot down, and look at the screen at eye-level, it actually looks pretty good. But sitting a few inches above center axis washes out the colors. It's not really noticeable while gaming but it's very visible on still images.
Click to expand...

So put it at eye level then - putting something under the stand to raise it up isn't exactly rocket science?


nbuubu said:
TBH the major reason I want to return it is the cheap bezel and horrible menu button design. If I could tilt it, or play without needing 4 inches of books underneath it to get it to eye level, I'd probably hang on to it.
Click to expand...

The bezel is just shiny black plastic, same as most other bezels. The buttons are bad but after enduring them to set the thing up you never need to press them again. It does tilt, not sure why 4 inches of books are a problem anyway - before LCD's all monitors needed to be adjusted to eye height this way, and even now you'd be very hard pressed to find an LCD with a stand that goes up 4 inches.
 
DemonDiablo said:
hell I'm still trying to figure out how the lower bulge in the bezel is keeping you from going multi monitor? I can understand how it would impede you from stacking it one on top of the other but side by side?
Click to expand...

The bottom bulge is a problem for 3 x 1 portrait.
 
Yikes2000 said:
The bottom bulge is a problem for 3 x 1 portrait.
Click to expand...

TN viewing angles are a serious problem in portrait mode. Your very limited vertical viewing angles become your very limited horizontal viewing angles, and you'll have to position each of the three monitors at a different angle pointing over your shoulder.
 
DemonDiablo said:
As bad as a 99 IBM laptop? Yea I dunno how much I can take your comments at face value after that comment. Your comments prior had me wondering how much tn vs ips, 5:4 vs 4:3 vs 16:10 vs 16:9 bias were in your comments and that pretty much wrapped it up for me.

hell I'm still trying to figure out how the lower bulge in the bezel is keeping you from going multi monitor? I can understand how it would impede you from stacking it one on top of the other but side by side?

All the same the review and first hand input on your experiences are nice and has helped me some, it just seems as though theres a strong hint of bias towards tn and 16:9 that makes me wonder to myself, "What were you expecting?" 3/4ths of your complaints could easily be tossed out before even purchasing the monitor.
Click to expand...

LOL how it it biased? I never even mentioned 16:9 in my comments so you're dragging your own bias baggage in there. I don't care about the aspect ratio war people on this forum are engaged in either way, and I'm typing this on a 16:9 27 inch right now.

As for the other bias accusation, I've simply never used TN panels. This is my first real time using a TN panel and I didn't expect such a drastic color shift. It's far far far worse than I expected, and if it's emblematic of TN panels then I suppose that's not good enough for me.

The problem with raising it with books or a shelf is the bottom stand is ugly and I don't want to have to ruin the aesthetics of my desk space just to accomodate some cheap monitor design. If I could tilt it off the 90 degree axis and still go multi-monitor, I'd be happy. But that's impossible. I need to know that I can use it straight up vertically so when I buy 2 more they'll fit together ... and the LG design prevents this.

The bulge at the bottom means you cannot put the LG monitor, oriented normally, beside another monitor. It leaves a gap of space between the monitors. This problem was mentioned in one of the reviews so I'm not the only one to see this problem. You will see a gap between 2 of these monitors in standard landscape mode. That's yet another game-killer for me.

The bezel is cheap and the buttons are horribly designed. And because of the bright flashing blue light when in standby, I'll be hunting around for that invisible touch-insensitive power button every single time I turn the monitor on and off.

I'm glad if other people will like this LG, good for them. I just hate it more and more the more I use it, and will look back into the 120hz game in the next generation, probably with Acer or Alienware unless LG completely redesigns the bezel.

I am completely sold on 120hz, and I will definitely be getting another one in the future. I actually prefer 16:9 for most gaming, and I'd be willing to put up with the poor vertical viewing angle and the not-so-great colors if only the LG bezel design was suited for multi-monitor use.
 
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From the 3D-Vision review of the LG:

"And at the end another possible issue that might arise should you decide to get three LG monitors to build a 3D Vision Surround setup with them is that the monitor does not offer the thinnest bezels and the bottom of screen has an extension with a thicker round bezel. And if you decide to overlap the bezels of the display in order to minimize the “lost” screen space within the 3D Vision Surround configuration you might have trouble getting things right. The center screen will be a bit further or backwards compared to the other two because of the thicker bottom of the bezel."

http://3dvision-blog.com/review-of-the-23-lg-w2363d-120hz-full-hd-3d-gaming-monitor/

You simply cannot put this monitor in a standard, side-by-side landscape multimonitor orientation without that bottom bulge creating a space between the monitors. There is no way to put the LG beside another LG without a gap.

That LG didn't even consider that people would want to do 3D Vision surround with their janky monitor design is astounding to me.
 
lg-touch-menu.jpg


This is the problem I'm talking about.
 
Ya, that is a pretty poor design. The only way that screen would work is if you removed the bezel completely for surround.
 
Im ready to pull the Trigger on a 120Hz today. The only 2 that I would get are the ASUS or the Alienware.

Which one?
 
USMC2Hard4U said:
Im ready to pull the Trigger on a 120Hz today. The only 2 that I would get are the ASUS or the Alienware.

Which one?
Click to expand...

I believe the Asus is newer, and has a slight edge spec-wise, but the Alienware (as far as I know) is matte, while the Asus is glossy. I think that's the biggest differentiator.

Personally, I can't stand glossy screens, but some people love them.
 
nbuubu said:
I believe the Asus is newer, and has a slight edge spec-wise, but the Alienware (as far as I know) is matte, while the Asus is glossy. I think that's the biggest differentiator.

Personally, I can't stand glossy screens, but some people love them.
Click to expand...

I like the Glossy. But I have a man cave that is dark and has no reflection. I have a glossy on my MacBook Pro and in some situations is horrible.
 
I'd say go for the Asus then, a lot of people love it. It'd be my first choice if I could handle the glossy screens.

I have a Macbook Pro (glossy) and work on a glossy iMac 27, and I hate the reflections.

I think I'm going to wait for next year's new Alienware, hopefully they make a 24inch version.
 
20million contrast ratio lol...

Anyone know if any future announced 120hz screens coming out will be hdmi 1.4?
 
Yea 20 million dynamic contrast is lulz, but it also says 1000:1 static contrast, same as their previous 120Hz monitor. That they can specify 20 million contrast ratio is just abusing dynamic contrast ratio + LED backlight, every1 knows LED doesn't offer such improvement in reality, it's just some company started boosting the contrast ratio with LED backlight and the others will have to jump on the false marketing bandwagon...

But yea their weakness with VX2265wm / VX2268wm have been backlight bleed issue and poorest contrast ratio among the 120Hz LCD monitors. The colors on the other hand after some adjustment on my VX2268wm have been excellent for a TN panel, I'm currently sitting in front of a Samsung 959NF Trinitron CRT at my parent's place and the VX2268wm have even a more natural color tone, this samsung is too green in comparision, so much noticable I had to adjust it a bit when I got here cuz it's annoying me. :p Even with my current settings 7600K, R: 63, G: 10, B: 63, this Samsung trinitron CRT is still slightly on the greenier side in color tone, especially noticable on this forum's grey message boards.
 
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Is there anything worth waiting for in this new viewsonic ?

Will LEDs give it any edge over LG or Alienware when it comes to picture quality ?
 
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